Reno Vet Tears down flag

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
FYI, I have served the country.

Yes you're partially right that a symbol is just that, but when it's the representative of a meaningful or spiritual idea, you better respect it. People have died for that "symbol" that you speak of, because they believe in what it stands for. When that happens, it becomes more than just a "symbol", as you have so nonchalantly put it.

You simply take your position and translate it to everyone elses, that vet actually DID something (chalk one more up for him DOING something), while you sit here and condemn his action. Shame on you.

To disrespect a national symbol and call it "free speech" is just plain ignorant.

Edit: And no, I don't have any bumper stickers.

I do respect what the flag represents, that's the whole point. Getting all crazy about the physical object itself strips it of that meaning by focusing your energy on the symbol and NOT the meaning. The way you treat the flag isn't respecting what it stands for, it's treating the flag like a cloth version of the golden calf.

I'll put it this way, if free speech doesn't mean being able to disrespect a symbol that allegedly stands for free speech, it doesn't mean anything at all.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: glutenberg


Yea, he'll have a gun, also protected by the Constitution, ready to shoot those who vandalize his property rights.

Uh-huh. There was a whole bunch of people there, why didn't they stop him or at least stomp him?

Maybe because they knew in their hearts the vet was right and they were wrong??

Or because people never do jack sh*t to help others out. Check out bystander syndrome. I sure as heck wouldn't step in to stop an angry man from taking somebody's piece of cloth, hell!

A lot of, if not all (heck, including mine) posts in this thread are so predictable, they could have been spelled out before hand and then brought up after 100 posts to show how boring we are 🙂

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Bravo to the guy for doing it.

The backlash against the illegals is about to pop wiiiiiiiide open.

Sadly many legal Hispanic residents will get caught up in it.......but people are getting fed up to the point of fighting back against the illegals. It's gonna get ugly.

I agree entirely. They keep pushing, and pushing against America. Flying Mexican flags, wanting more rights than LEGAL citizens. They refuse to assimilate. Instead of accepting America as a great country, they want to make it like Mexico (ie: a shithole.)

It's funny, just earlier I was talking with a friend of mine who works for Dallas ICE, and he said, "They just need belt fed machine guns along the border, and kill anything breathing that tries to cross. That's what any other sovereign nation would do." At the time, I thought it was a bit extreme, but after seeing these dogs fly their flag over ours, that is nothing short of an invasion. They're declaring dominance. Fuck 'em.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: glutenberg


Yea, he'll have a gun, also protected by the Constitution, ready to shoot those who vandalize his property rights.

Uh-huh. There was a whole bunch of people there, why didn't they stop him or at least stomp him?

Maybe because they knew in their hearts the vet was right and they were wrong??

Or because people never do jack sh*t to help others out. Check out bystander syndrome. I sure as heck wouldn't step in to stop an angry man from taking somebody's piece of cloth, hell!

A lot of, if not all (heck, including mine) posts in this thread are so predictable, they could have been spelled out before hand and then brought up after 100 posts to show how boring we are 🙂

I get in trouble all the time with people telling me off for describing them without having seen them or knowing who they are. I think you could have the same gift. 🙂

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Bravo to the guy for doing it.

The backlash against the illegals is about to pop wiiiiiiiide open.

Sadly many legal Hispanic residents will get caught up in it.......but people are getting fed up to the point of fighting back against the illegals. It's gonna get ugly.

I agree entirely. They keep pushing, and pushing against America. Flying Mexican flags, wanting more rights than LEGAL citizens. They refuse to assimilate. Instead of accepting America as a great country, they want to make it like Mexico (ie: a shithole.)

It's funny, just earlier I was talking with a friend of mine who works for Dallas ICE, and he said, "They just need belt fed machine guns along the border, and kill anything breathing that tries to cross. That's what any other sovereign nation would do." At the time, I thought it was a bit extreme, but after seeing these dogs fly their flag over ours, that is nothing short of an invasion. They're declaring dominance. Fuck 'em.

Dang, Nebor, why don't you get a big bull horn and announce to the world how inferior you feel.

Good grief. I am a citizen of the United States of America, a nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created. We hold these truths to be self evident, that we are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights and among them are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I am a citizen of the most advanced expression of liberal ideals on the planet, a country that millions all over the world want to come to. I am a citizen of the greatest country on earth.

What sort of doubting Thomas are you that you can be intimidated and have your "dominance" threatened by some jokers with a piece of cloth. Jesus Christ man, buck up. You aren't dominant over anybody and neither are they. You get that because some sort of false superiority is shining through.

You are an American. You are the greatest with or without a piece of cloth in the sky and regardless of where some other piece of cloth is.

Stand proud, damn you, and stop making your fellow Americans look like wimps.

 

[ProfJohn]

I think most vets see the flag as a representation of our country. When you disrespect our flag then you disrespect the men and women who served and died under that flag.

I think that is why this guy was so upset about this whole ordeal. I am sure to him that this is less about Mexicans and illegal immigration and more about showing respect to those who died while serving under that flag.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think most vets see the flag as a representation of our country. When you disrespect our flag then you disrespect the men and women who served and died under that flag.

I think that is why this guy was so upset about this whole ordeal. I am sure to him that this is less about Mexicans and illegal immigration and more about showing respect to those who died while serving under that flag.

Served and died for what, God Damn it? Didn't they serve and die to preserve our freedom, the freedom to be a f@cktard and disrespect the flag if you're sense of freedom is that deranged?

No, when you go nuts about something like this it's because you're looking for thanks, you're demanding that others respect your idea of freedom and not theirs. It's because you feel small and not big. You need to be respected instead of living in a way that inspires admiration.

 

[First]

I bet the fellow who raised his flag above ours had good intent, trying to show his allegiance to his country of origin while still being respectful to us by also raising our flag. But come on, who here really thinks he knew what he was doing was illegal, or would rile people up? I bet he didn't have a clue and, I'll be honest, I had no idea until now it was illegal to have a different countries' flag above the US flag but not illegal the other way around.

Also, I think there's a reason this law isn't enforced, and it's because a large majority of the country honestly doesn't care what you do with your flag, unless you're burning it in effigy. And even then, it's not going to deemed illegal. If that legislation couldn't pass with a large majority Republican congress in the 90's, it has no chance today, or ever again. I think people care more about intent than anything else; if your intent is to split up the Union, the way Southerners did with Confederate flags, then that's another story.

 

[ProfJohn]

Moonbeam I get the feeling that you have never spent time around someone in the military who lost friends during their service. They take the flag VERY seriously.

As I said, to you it is just a piece of cloth without meaning, to them it is the reason they fought and died for. The flag is a BIG deal to the military. They take an oath with it behind them. The salute it when they pass it. They make a big deal every day when they raise and lower it. And when they die their coffins are draped with it.

Just because you don?t think it has meaning, doesn?t mean that they feel the same way.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Moonbeam I get the feeling that you have never spent time around someone in the military who lost friends during their service. They take the flag VERY seriously.

As I said, to you it is just a piece of cloth without meaning, to them it is the reason they fought and died for. The flag is a BIG deal to the military. They take an oath with it behind them. The salute it when they pass it. They make a big deal every day when they raise and lower it. And when they die their coffins are draped with it.

Just because you don?t think it has meaning, doesn?t mean that they feel the same way.

I found in my time that flag nuts existed at about the same rate in the military as out of it. I couldn't give a shit about the flag myself... seems like the fact that our ideals allow us to trash it is one of the best things it represents.

Funny sight on every base I've ever been on, is that in the morning and evening when they are about to raise and lower the flag when they play the "5 minutes till" horn you see everyone running inside to avoid being stuck out saluting it. So, your mileage may vary. I personally don't know anyone who has died, but several of my friends do. They can still be seen hightailing it inside... haha.

 

[teclis1023]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Uh-huh. There was a whole bunch of people there, why didn't they stop him or at least stomp him?

Maybe because they knew in their hearts the vet was right and they were wrong??

It probably had a lot more to do with the fact that a crazy knife-wielding veteran was destroying their property and threatening to fight with them.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Yeah! Hell yeah!!! Go Vet! Punish somebody by breaking the law by breaking it yourself!! Whoo hoo!!

Nothing wrong with a little disobedience every now and then. :thumbsup:

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Flag fetish, more likely.

edit: I am tired of you "respect the symbol" people who don't give a crap for what it stands for.

 

[teclis1023]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Moonbeam I get the feeling that you have never spent time around someone in the military who lost friends during their service. They take the flag VERY seriously.

As I said, to you it is just a piece of cloth without meaning, to them it is the reason they fought and died for. The flag is a BIG deal to the military. They take an oath with it behind them. The salute it when they pass it. They make a big deal every day when they raise and lower it. And when they die their coffins are draped with it.

Just because you don?t think it has meaning, doesn?t mean that they feel the same way.

I can't speak for Moonbeam, but a large part of my family has served in the United States Military, and none of them have ever made a big deal out of the Flag like this guy did. I love the American Flag and the Israeli Flag, but I don't get upset about Iran placing them on the floor as a display...it just doesn't get to me. It neither assaults my belief in American values, nor my faith as a Jew and love for Israel. I'll agree that flag burning is generally juvenile and stupid, but it's not worth going crazy over.

If we're worried more about the flag than the ideals that the flag symbolizes, then what's the point? It's backward-logic which places more emphasis on the item itself than what the item stands for. At what point is it simply enforcing the extreme views of flag-lovers on the rest of us, stifling our freedoms and rights in favor of pandering to the Vet population?

Furthermore, why couldn't this veteran have simply talked with the owner about the flag and resolved it without whipping out a hunting knife and breaking the law? There's no reason - he wanted to make a show, and he was successful. In the end, it just makes him look all the crazier.

As for this rubbish about the Mexicans trying to 'take over' our country...sheesh, get a hobby. Now we're at war with Mexicans? "Johnny, get down! Pedro's flying a flag, and I'm pretty sure he's listening to Mariachi music! Get your flak jacket on, because there's NO way we'll be able to continue our own traditions with these crazy Mexicans standing there peacefully!" I'm all for immigration control, but I'm not intimidated if someone flies a non-American flag at their place of business.

This is all just so retarded that it's not worth getting flipped out over.

 

[ProfJohn]

Umm it?s one thing to see Iranians burning an American flag in Iran. Or even to see crazies burning the flag here in protest.

But I think placing the Mexican flag over the American flag just pushed one button too many. In some parts of the west there is a siege mentality, since that is how many people feel.
It is getting to be like that in Orlando as well. We are getting to the point that those who don?t speak Spanish are now at a disadvantage. The whole thing is just a mess.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Moonbeam I get the feeling that you have never spent time around someone in the military who lost friends during their service. They take the flag VERY seriously.

As I said, to you it is just a piece of cloth without meaning, to them it is the reason they fought and died for. The flag is a BIG deal to the military. They take an oath with it behind them. The salute it when they pass it. They make a big deal every day when they raise and lower it. And when they die their coffins are draped with it.

Just because you don?t think it has meaning, doesn?t mean that they feel the same way.

It is a piece of cloth called a flag and the flag stands for a principle. It a military person respects the flag and has no idea what the principle is that it represents it is he, not me who is worshiping cloth. It is the nation for which it stands that matters and it is idolatry that worships the flag and act in violation of its principle to defend it. Another word for that is superficial. Pavlov could train dogs to respond the same way. Let us ask for of ourselves than this, please. I'm OK with respect for the flag if it's respect for the principle.

 

[maluckey]

OK,

Most are either demonizing or apologizing for whichever side of the argument that they personally believe in. I see a lack of understanding between two cultures. I see a Mexican with no idea how much the illegal influx has hurt their image, showing pride for his being different. I also see a soldier angered that someone would come to this country to escape the issues of their own, then have the audacity to claim that their country is superior to the United States.

We all know that I'm a soldier, and I believe in national unity. I believe that neighbors SHOULD know each other. I also believe in trying to be A PART of this country....not APART from it. We are a country of many nations and ethnicities. What makes it stronger are the commonalities and shared vision, not the differences.

After all....when in Rome...

 

[Siddhartha]

I am glad that the forum's anti-immigrant faction can rally around some nut who attacked a flag.

But how important is this incident compared to the Iraqi war, AIDS pandemic, and testicular cancer?

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: glutenberg


Yea, he'll have a gun, also protected by the Constitution, ready to shoot those who vandalize his property rights.

Uh-huh. There was a whole bunch of people there, why didn't they stop him or at least stomp him?

Maybe because they knew in their hearts the vet was right and they were wrong??

Why do people stand around when a murder is occurring around them? It's called the bystander effect.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Bravo to the guy for doing it.

The backlash against the illegals is about to pop wiiiiiiiide open.

Sadly many legal Hispanic residents will get caught up in it.......but people are getting fed up to the point of fighting back against the illegals. It's gonna get ugly.

I agree entirely. They keep pushing, and pushing against America. Flying Mexican flags, wanting more rights than LEGAL citizens. They refuse to assimilate. Instead of accepting America as a great country, they want to make it like Mexico (ie: a shithole.)

It's funny, just earlier I was talking with a friend of mine who works for Dallas ICE, and he said, "They just need belt fed machine guns along the border, and kill anything breathing that tries to cross. That's what any other sovereign nation would do." At the time, I thought it was a bit extreme, but after seeing these dogs fly their flag over ours, that is nothing short of an invasion. They're declaring dominance. Fuck 'em.

Dang, Nebor, why don't you get a big bull horn and announce to the world how inferior you feel.

Good grief. I am a citizen of the United States of America, a nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created. We hold these truths to be self evident, that we are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights and among them are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I am a citizen of the most advanced expression of liberal ideals on the planet, a country that millions all over the world want to come to. I am a citizen of the greatest country on earth.

What sort of doubting Thomas are you that you can be intimidated and have your "dominance" threatened by some jokers with a piece of cloth. Jesus Christ man, buck up. You aren't dominant over anybody and neither are they. You get that because some sort of false superiority is shining through.

You are an American. You are the greatest with or without a piece of cloth in the sky and regardless of where some other piece of cloth is.

Stand proud, damn you, and stop making your fellow Americans look like wimps.

You know you've struck a nerve when Moonbeam isn't speaking in philosophical terms and has to directly address you.

Hurry Nebor, grab your balls and let's go round us up some Mexicans.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
I am glad that the forum's anti-immigrant faction can rally around some nut who attacked a flag.

But how important is this incident compared to the Iraqi war, AIDS pandemic, and testicular cancer?

This isn't about someone being anti-immigration. It is about someone being anti-ILLEGAL immigration.

Big difference.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: teclis1023

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Uh-huh. There was a whole bunch of people there, why didn't they stop him or at least stomp him?

Maybe because they knew in their hearts the vet was right and they were wrong??

It probably had a lot more to do with the fact that a crazy knife-wielding veteran was destroying their property and threatening to fight with them.

Did you watch the video or listen to the radio interview posted in this thread?

Obviously not.

 

[manowar821]

Honestly, I don't give a damn where the american flag is flown relative to other flags on the same pole. Other than that, I have no opinion on this, surprisingly.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think most vets see the flag as a representation of our country. When you disrespect our flag then you disrespect the men and women who served and died under that flag.

I think that is why this guy was so upset about this whole ordeal. I am sure to him that this is less about Mexicans and illegal immigration and more about showing respect to those who died while serving under that flag.

Served and died for what, God Damn it? Didn't they serve and die to preserve our freedom, the freedom to be a f@cktard and disrespect the flag if you're sense of freedom is that deranged?

No, when you go nuts about something like this it's because you're looking for thanks, you're demanding that others respect your idea of freedom and not theirs. It's because you feel small and not big. You need to be respected instead of living in a way that inspires admiration.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one. The flag is just a symbol and I fully support the right of people who feels then need/want to burn it in protest...... but I do not support people flying a foreign flag above this countries flag. If that's the way they feel then go back to their home country. Is the flag holy? Of course not, if it were then the people doing this would be burned at the stake. This vet just went in and rescued the flag from a position of disrespect. Good for him.


Some here are arguing that the flag is just a piece of cloth, well then I ask you, is the constituion just a piece of paper? After all, that is what the flag symbolizes, the freedoms guaranteed us by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The symbolism of the flag, at least to the people who made sacraficies that most people can't even imagine, should be honored, not disrespected. I can't understand how people can think that honoring our flag in respect for all who have sacraficed and died protecting what it sybolizes is too much to ask?

It may not be so much a matter that I'm far out, but rather that you have never been anywhere.

 

[jonks]

"America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free". "

Yes, I just quoted Michael Douglas in The American President. I can go shoot myself now.