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Remember that shutdown Trump WILL have?

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MomentsofSanity said:
Can any one of the wall supporters tell me what, specifically, the wall is targeting? Why do we need a wall and not other methods that actually accomplish something? The wall doesn't stop drug smuggling, it doesn't address the overwhelming majority of illegals. What is the purpose of it anyway when so much more could be done for so much less that would actually have an impact?
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The wall mainly targets wildlife. The wall will drive the U.S. jaguar population to extinction and likely drive the U.S. populations of ocelot and jaguarundi to extinction as well. Cat habitat straddles the border and preventing the U.S. cats from moving freely across the border will wipe them out. People will just find another way in.
 
IronWing said:
Trump just gave federal workers Christmas Eve off as a paid holiday. If the shutdown happens then many of these workers will have to show up on Christmas Eve to shut things down in an orderly manner. Precedent suggests that federal workers will eventually get paid their normal wages for time worked during the shutdown. The upshot seems to be that any workers called in on Christmas Eve will get double time due to the confluence of Trump’s impromptu holiday and Trump’s shutdown. Winning!
Click to expand...

A couple of corrections, federal workers that are required to show up during the shutdown will get paid, that is not a question, it is demanded by federal law, congress would have to change several other laws to circumvent that. It is workers that are furloughed that are not guaranteed pay, but that history shows that congress will pay anyway.

Next, every time we do this little 'will we or won't we shutdown' dance a large part of the government wastes several days of work preparing for a possible shutdown. Federal workers can not get done everything needed for an orderly shutdown in one day. Congress's refusal to work on budgets until the last day creates massive inefficiency in the government whether or not there is an actual shutdown.
 
IronWing said:
The wall mainly targets wildlife. The wall will drive the U.S. jaguar population to extinction and likely drive the U.S. populations of ocelot and jaguarundi to extinction as well. Cat habitat straddles the border and preventing the U.S. cats from moving freely across the border will wipe them out. People will just find another way in.
Click to expand...

In this vein...

I voted for Trump. Now his wall may destroy my butterfly paradise

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...-his-wall-may-destroy-my-butterfly-paradise/?

The ecological damage the wall would cause isn't worth the feels of the morons he sold the idea to. Also anybody who voted for him who didn't think this would happen is entirely responsible if it does.

I guess the good news is that, for now, Trump and the Dems appear EXTREMELY far apart from agreeing to fund this stupid fucking thing, Trump blew what is likely to be his one and only chance last year to make it happen.
 
Apparently Trump has become irritated by the (accurate) coverage of him caving on his wall demands and has told the house that he probably won't sign the CR without wall money. Trouble is that the Senate has already voted on the CR, there is insufficient R votes in the House for wall money (lots of defeated Rs not showing up for votes), and the Dems are in absolutely no mood to negotiate at all since Trump has pre taken the blame and they can move a clean CR in January.

The Incompetence Express is boarding to Fuckedtown.
 
I wonder if anybody has told him that much of the Senate has gone home. I think either the house passes the Senate approved CR and he signed or the gov will shut down (at least) until the Dems take over in January.
 
No, they or none of the rest of us "know" that we need this for border security.

That's because there's never been an honest discussion put forth by those pushing for the Wall that:
  1. - lays out the problem of illegal immigration, impact on society and the bottom line, in plain non-fear-mongering language
  2. - given the above, lays out how a large wall across the border effectively solves the problem (with special attention given to the fact that by far most illegals come in via border crossings/ports and overstay visas)
  3. - weighs the cost of the solution (building it, maintaining it) against the cost of the problem
  4. - looks at the reasons illegals come here in the first place, and examines how the drug war plays in. Fixing things at the source always beats slapping a bandaid on the symptom.
And additionally, talks about how a Wall is better than what we have now, including additional funding for existing border control using the ways and means we have now.

Haven't heard a discussion like that? Hmm, I wonder why not. Perhaps it's because the Wall was never intended to solve a problem. It was a way to get votes and favor among people who feel having such a discussion is too complicated.

Conceivably, I could be convinced that we DO need a wall if I heard such a discussion and their arguments convinced me. But they don't even make the attempt, so I oppose it and risk being called a supporter of "open borders" or unpatriotic or whatever. Fine, whatever.
 
Vic said:
The reason for birthright citizenship is because America is a free country. As such, every person born on American soil is guaranteed their right to freedom through citizenship.
Now why do you suppose anyone would be against that?
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Honestly, I'm not a big fan of birthright citizenship, either. Most developed, progressive, successful countries require all "birth-citizens" to apply for legal citizenship at age. And when you think about it, there are a lot of "born patriots" in this country that are the absolute worst versions of Americans: All of those Bundy assholes, for one: I'd rather a single Jamal Kashoggi--you know, the type of person who understands and appreciates American values and prefers them over others, based on actual lived experience--than 100 Cliven Bundy dickscarf leeches that wouldn't understand America if a bald eagle crawled up their asses and planted an American flag on the inside of their rectums.
 
And reports are the R house is going to try passing $5B in wall money which isn't remotely clear will actually pass that body and is dead in the Senate where even the GOPers are mostly like "get fucked we're out of here you had a week to try that".
 
K1052 said:
I wonder if anybody has told him that much of the Senate has gone home. I think either the house passes the Senate approved CR and he signed or the gov will shut down (at least) until the Dems take over in January.
Click to expand...
Congress should just pass the basic bill then go home. If the government shuts down, it isn't on Dems, it isn't even on the GoP in general, it will be on the sole individual holding it up.
 
Simply hard headed stupidity on Trump's part.
He's crying like a baby wanting that candy bar at the check-out lane.
THE WALL is not going to stop one single illegal from getting into the country.
Illegals don't run across borders to get into America, they fly in or drive in or are driven in. And thats only three of many ways they can easily get in.
Running across borders is sooooo old school.
Those that do run across are picked up within minutes by border patrol.
They stick out like a sore thump, have no where to go once crossing, and have nothing but the clothes on their backs.
They are easily detected and easily caught. Then returned.

The way to get into America is in a seat on an airplane, or paying someone to drive you in, or purchasing fake papers, or using so many other ways.
A wall? Ridiculous. Useless.
Only a moron would believe in such a lame solution.
It's like saying if you take some herb you won't catch a cold, then you take the herb and guess what? You still catch a cold.
Or saying if you toss salt over your shoulder you'll have good luck, so you toss.... and you don't.

Come on people. We ALL know Donald Trump very well by now.
This wall thing is simply another stunt to feed his base, a stunt that will stop nothing pertaining to illegal immigration.
AND... will cost the tax-payer BILLIONS, which by the way Donald Trump could care less wasting tax money for something he knows will never work.
Donald is rich. He doesn't care if he spends YOUR tax dollars on nonsense and to stroke his ignorant ass pride. After all, it's all your money, never his.

Donald knew Mexico would never pay for this albatross. He knew it would be the tax payers of America that foot the bill.
And.... at any cost to them.
This is soooo stupid its beyond comprehension. But doesn't that explain Donald Trump to a tee?
Fat, ignorant, dump as kaka, and the stupidest con-artist of all con-artist.
So what does that say about our republican congress AND those Donald Trump people?
A lot of stupid going around in America today, sadly enough....
 
K1052 said:
Apparently Trump has become irritated by the (accurate) coverage of him caving on his wall demands and has told the house that he probably won't sign the CR without wall money. Trouble is that the Senate has already voted on the CR, there is insufficient R votes in the House for wall money (lots of defeated Rs not showing up for votes), and the Dems are in absolutely no mood to negotiate at all since Trump has pre taken the blame and they can move a clean CR in January.

The Incompetence Express is boarding to Fuckedtown.
Click to expand...

Apparently, Fox and the Freedom Caucus were mean to him for not getting Wall money. And Ann Coulter. It's being reported Trump has unfollowed her on Twitter because she criticized him yesterday. Trump's skin is thinner than tissue paper and he makes snap policy decisions based on what he sees in the media.
 
MomentsofSanity said:
Can any one of the wall supporters tell me what, specifically, the wall is targeting? Why do we need a wall and not other methods that actually accomplish something? The wall doesn't stop drug smuggling, it doesn't address the overwhelming majority of illegals. What is the purpose of it anyway when so much more could be done for so much less that would actually have an impact?
Click to expand...

the wall is simply a metaphor for the historical fear that conservatives have against complex, challenging ideas that attempt to invade their mushy, comfy brains.
 
Sonikku said:
Congress should just pass the basic bill then go home. If the government shuts down, it isn't on Dems, it isn't even on the GoP in general, it will be on the sole individual holding it up.
Click to expand...

Trump was kind enough to explicitly take all the blame preemptively on national TV. Sure his base wants that and he's feeding them but his base isn't enough to keep his job or really even likely keep the Senate in the 2020 cycle. I generally don't think shutdowns mean a whole lot in today's news cycle but I don't see how him doing one is going to increase voter faith in him which is something he desperately needs.
 
zinfamous said:
Honestly, I'm not a big fan of birthright citizenship, either. Most developed, progressive, successful countries require all "birth-citizens" to apply for legal citizenship at age. And when you think about it, there are a lot of "born patriots" in this country that are the absolute worst versions of Americans: All of those Bundy assholes, for one: I'd rather a single Jamal Kashoggi--you know, the type of person who understands and appreciates American values and prefers them over others, based on actual lived experience--than 100 Cliven Bundy dickscarf leeches that wouldn't understand America if a bald eagle crawled up their asses and planted an American flag on the inside of their rectums.
Click to expand...
You are so on a waxing poetically roll today🙂
 
As of about 20 minutes ago, the GOP is fighting to add wall funding to the bill, but they're having problems because so many members are absent:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/government-shutdown-december-2018/index.html

House Majority Whip Steve Scalise tells reporters that Republicans are working to add wall funding to the stop-gap spending bill.

“We’re going to move forward today to add language to the bill that the Senate sent over on government funding to add $5 billion to the wall as well as the disaster relief funding that’s been agreed upon between the House and Senate," he said.

The timeline: This could be voted on today.

But a key thing to remember: It is uncertain it will pass the House, and it has no chance in the Senate. The question is what do they do after it fails. Republican leaders aren’t sure yet.

Asked what happens if this bill for wall money fails in the Senate, Rep. Mark Meadows said: “I don’t know — I’m not in the Senate.”
Click to expand...
 
First, as noted by others these Congress cowards should just pass the reasonable bill agreed upon. If Trump vetoes it, that's on him. Of course, these spineless worms are worried (rightly) about Trump's base turning their baleful, simplistic gazes on THEM...

Second, it's pretty obvious all these parties involved are simply in CYA, "we did what we could" mode. House knows the Senate won't pass (apparently), but at least the House tried valiantly!
 
If would be funny if Chuck and Nancy put the original deal they made on live TV back on the table. It included wall funding along with path to citizenship for dreamers.

We may be past that point. Let Trump stew in his own bile.
 
VRAMdemon said:
As of about 20 minutes ago, the GOP is fighting to add wall funding to the bill, but they're having problems because so many members are absent:
Click to expand...

It is a complete non-starter. The Dems will never go for it, and they don't have enough votes in either house to do it with out them. If Trump doesn't back down again I imagine the government is getting the Trump Shutdown.
 
HomerJS said:
If would be funny if Chuck and Nancy put the original deal they made on live TV back on the table. It included wall funding along with path to citizenship for dreamers.

We may be past that point. Let Trump stew in his own bile.
Click to expand...

That ship definitively sailed on November 8th. Trump may indeed ask for it but even if they wanted to the Dems would not and can not deliver that now. I also should note that the wall is very unpopular with the parts of the electorate that swept the Dems to their huge win. It has no constituency outside Trump's core base.
 
K1052 said:
That ship definitively sailed on November 8th. Trump may indeed ask for it but even if they wanted to the Dems would not and can not deliver that now. I also should note that the wall is very unpopular with the parts of the electorate that swept the Dems to their huge win. It has no constituency outside Trump's core base.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the Trump supporters that happen to find themselves living on the proposed wall territory....
 
SMOGZINN said:
It is a complete non-starter. The Dems will never go for it, and they don't have enough votes in either house to do it with out them. If Trump doesn't back down again I imagine the government is getting the Trump Shutdown.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'd want to withhold paychecks over Christmas from the guys who are supposed to take bullets for me.
 
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