Remember that shutdown Trump WILL have?

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VRAMdemon

Platinum Member
Aug 16, 2012
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Don't expect Trump to pay attention to polls on this issue. He's pleasing his fan base, which are the only people who care and who HE cares about. If federal workers quit, well, his base won't care. Remember, these are the people who campaign on making government smaller - not necessarily smaller through financial attribution, but they'll take what they can get. This could go on until there's a noticeable economic impact.

It seems, today's Republicans don't want small government. They want fantasy small government. They want an end to all of the money that goes to other people, but a continuation and expansion of what goes to themselves. A government shutdown forces them to see just how much they're sponging off the government.
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
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Kevin Hassett, the chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, says that a lot of federal workers are better off during the shutdown because they were planning on taking vacations anyway.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/k...LmTw3r9BNcWUhc
"Federal workers who are without pay as the government shutdown drags on actually have it pretty good, according to Kevin Hassett, the chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers. "

Bwahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, vacationing without getting paid is pretty good. :rolleyes:

"a lot of federal employees were already planning to take time off between Christmas and the New Year — and so the government shutdown essentially gives them a vacation for free "
So what's that number, "a lot"?, Is it all/most/some/few of the 800K of those employees were going to take a vacation anyways?

Effing moron. Do these guys actually listen to what they are going to say, before they say it?
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
50,780
1,302
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So what's that number, "a lot"?, Is it all/most/some/few of the 800K of those employees were going to take a vacation anyways?
He's just trying to pooh-pooh the effect. Perhaps a quarter of federal employees were granted vacation on any given day around Christmas, usually a day or few, not 3 weeks.

I'm also pretty sure that TSA folks only dream of vacation days around Christmas...
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
18,757
181
136
He's just trying to pooh-pooh the effect. Perhaps a quarter of federal employees were granted vacation on any given day around Christmas, usually a day or few, not 3 weeks.

I'm also pretty sure that TSA folks only dream of vacation days around Christmas...
Yeah, my question of, "what's a lot", was rhetorical but I agree that he's trying to make this trump shit sandwich more palatable
for his base to eat.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
50,780
1,302
126
Yeah, my question of, "what's a lot", was rhetorical but I agree that he's trying to make this trump shit sandwich more palatable
for his base to eat.
It's a couple of assholes with plenty of cash in reserve making light of people who don't. Getting paid somewhere down the road doesn't pay the bills today.
 

VRAMdemon

Platinum Member
Aug 16, 2012
2,039
331
136
For a master "negotiator" and "businessman", he has certainly painted himself into a corner and given himself zero negotiation room. He now lives or dies over this boondoggle. As long as the Dems. stay unified in opposition this will end badly for Trump. Obviously (No shit!) Trump and his advisors really didn't even consider the significant impact to a shutdown - food inspections, income tax returns, SNAP benefits, etc. and just how many people were going to be hurt. They seem to have only considered the federal workers in aggregate who get furloughed and tried to either claim they supported the shutdown (bullshit on its face) or that they were just lazy Dems working in cushy union jobs who are on "vacation" anyway (also bullshit).

As it becomes more and more apparent that soon close to millions of people won't be able to feed their family, as income tax refunds don't get sent hurting middle and lower class families who plan for that annual windfall of a return, and as the airport system grinds to a halt dramatically impacting business and vacation travel directly effecting the economy. If Trump doesn't fold the GOP in the Senate are going to have to have a Come To Jesus meeting and make a very hard choice. Save themselves or go down with the Wall.
 
May 15, 2000
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The controlling members of the GOP and Trump are seeking to destroy our Constitution and call for an Imperial Presidency, one that can do all things. That would be the result of Trump getting his way in a "national emergency" defined by whatever that is based on. Some Dems might salivate at the idea of universal care or gun control, anything and everything. They should be put in the same max security prison as anyone else supporting this idea.

Make no mistake, making an emergency from expediency will have marked the end of this nation. Oh it will exist, much closer to that of Orwell, as no one can be trusted with that power left or right.

Two years I would never have said the above. It would be McEwan on a bad day however the absurd has become tangible between Trump, Graham and Mitch alone. Add the supporters and we have things best not discussed in the open as real possibilities and I do not want to reach that point.
Welcome to the party...took you long enough.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
7,041
278
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Did you all see this? It's nuts, yet totally real TV show from 1958.

"Narrator: The people were ready to believe. Like sheep they ran to the slaughterhouse. And waiting for them was the high priest of fraud.

Trump: I am the only one. Trust me. I can build a wall around your homes that nothing will penetrate.

Townperson: What do we do? How can we save ourselves?

Trump: You ask how do you build that wall. You ask, and I’m here to tell you."

 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
6,756
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Joshua Tree National Park has been vandalized and trashed during the shutdown.

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/1/10/18177478/joshua-tree-national-park-government-shutdown

A week ago, Joshua Tree National Park in Southern California was forced to shut down its campgrounds due to “health and safety concerns over near-capacity pit toilets,” according to CNN.

But despite the partial closure, things continued to get worse.

According to National Parks Traveler, visitors are creating illegal roads and driving into some of the park’s most fragile areas. They are also chopping down trees, setting illegal fires, and graffitiing rocks. With Joshua Tree being roughly the size of Delaware, the eight on-duty law enforcement rangers had no way to stop all the prohibited activity.

“We had some pretty extensive four-wheel driving around the entire area to access probably our most significant tree in the park,” Joshua Tree superintendent David Smith told National Parks Traveler. “We have this hybrid live oak tree that is deciduous. It is one of our kind of iconic trees inside the park. People were driving to it and camping under it. Through the virgin desert to get to this location.”

On Tuesday, Smith announced the park would close indefinitely due to the damage. However, this measure was rolled back on Wednesday by federal officials, who said they will use the Federal Land and Recreation Enhancement funds to restart park maintenance and address sanitation issues.

Joshua trees are already facing possible extinction, with scientists claiming that the Joshua Tree habitat will be lost to climate change by 2100. Smith told National Geographic in October, “We’re just in crisis mode right now.” Twenty days into the government shutdown, vandals are accelerating the trees’ demise.
All the national parks should be shut, fully. The only reason they aren't is because Republicans cried like bitches during the shutdown in 2013. They claimed it was just Obama trying to make life worse for Americans.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
6,756
118
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It is frankly depressing to see that some people are this far gone. Trump doesn't give a single shit about that guy or if he loses his livelihood. Not one single, solitary shit. Yet this guy is willing to sacrifice himself and his family to build a wall he will never see that won't accomplish anything.

There's a sickness in this country and I don't know what to do about it.
Break up media monopolies, bring back the fairness doctrine, bring back station ownership laws, and make illegal to spew bullshit while calling yourself news.
 
Nov 27, 2001
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It is frankly depressing to see that some people are this far gone. Trump doesn't give a single shit about that guy or if he loses his livelihood. Not one single, solitary shit. Yet this guy is willing to sacrifice himself and his family to build a wall he will never see that won't accomplish anything.

There's a sickness in this country and I don't know what to do about it.
Throughout history, we've usually demonized various groups of people whether domestic or foreign as they serve as a way to shift our gaze away from our own problems onto the "boogeyman". I think it's worthwhile to add that you get bonus points if you can help make it somewhat intangible or rather a concept like "immigrants". Anyway, I don't think anything that I've said is astounding or new information, but it's worth mentioning as I don't think it will ever change.
 
Aug 21, 2003
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All the national parks should be shut, fully. The only reason they aren't is because Republicans cried like bitches during the shutdown in 2013. They claimed it was just Obama trying to make life worse for Americans.
Kind of in stark relief these days about how many things Obama did that were just simple responsible governance that Republicans decried as punitive because they are stupid assholes.
 
Aug 21, 2003
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When a conservative proposes a gross abuse of executive power paid for by money stolen from people by law enforcement. The age of freedumb is truly upon us.

Screen Shot 2019-01-12 at 9.55.25 AM.png
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
18,757
181
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cheeto went to McAllen Texas to promote his wall, and the people that live there say otherwise, to his wall.
In fact, they say the city is the 20th safest (2018) city in America

https://www.yahoo.com/news/president-trump-went-border-town-001619345.html

"Meanwhile, Julie Hillrichs, spokeswoman for the Texas Border Coalition, a group of border mayors (including Darling), county judges and border communities focused on issues that impact border quality of life for more than 2.5 million people, tells TIME the Coalition believes the real way to increase security at the border would not be a wall, but increased investment in the legal ports of entry that already exist in their area.


“We have never supported the wall,” Hillrichs says. “The Border Coalition has consistently over the years stated we believe the wall is a wasted investment.”

"
 
Jun 4, 2004
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Here’s a great opinion piece one of my co-workers wrote for the Houston Chronicle.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/op...l-employee-shutdown-Houston-NASA-13525441.php

I’m a federal employee. Stop holding me hostage! [Opinion]

Like millions of Americans, I recently took some time off to enjoy the holidays with friends and family. While this should have been a time of joy and celebration, a black cloud hung over me and my co-workers. I am a federal employee and like around 800,000 other people, I was not sure what the government shutdown would mean for me. Would I continue to work after the holidays or be forced into an involuntary vacation? And if my work was lucky enough to be exempted from the furlough, when would my next paycheck come?

The fact is many of us federal employees do our jobs because we believe in what we do. I know I could make more money in the private sector. Instead, I have spent the last seven years of my life working on NASA’s Commercial Crew Program trying to return our astronauts to the International Space Station on an American-made spacecraft. This is not just an interesting job. It serves the interests of the United States by saving the taxpayer dollars we currently have to pay the Russians for this service, and it helps guarantee access to the unique national laboratory in low-Earth orbit while spurring development in a fledgling industry.

Whether you are for or against the wall, this is the wrong way to resolve it. Many federal employees will spend that forced vacation worrying about when their next paycheck will come to pay their bills. An assumption, perhaps a dream, that they will eventually get paid provides little solace when rent and food bills go unpaid now.

Beyond inflicting pain on so many people, many whom are living paycheck-to-paycheck, taxpayers should also be outraged at the waste. The Office of Management and Budget estimated that the 16-day government shutdown in 2013 cost American taxpayers $2 billion in lost productivity.

During the shutdown, the Securities and Exchange Commission can’t process mergers or Initial Public Offerings. The Federal Aviation Administration can’t approve commercial space launches. The billions in dollars the president has promised American farmers hurt by the trade war with China go undistributed.

For small companies like Texas-based Exos Aerospace, which had to delay its inaugural launch, the federal shutdown can make or break a business. Some businesses are offering free or discounted services to furloughed employees, which is great for the community but reduces the businesses’ bottom line, and likely will come back to hurt everyone in higher prices. Standard & Poor’s estimated that the 2013 closure cost the U.S. economy $24 billion. Some estimates have the current shutdown costing around $6 billion dollars a week. People like me and my co-workers are starting to think about delaying major purchases and deferring car repairs. Others are worrying about how they will pay for child care.

Scientific research is also being impacted. Hundreds of federal employees who were going to attend and contribute to the annual American Meteorological Society meetingwere forced to cancel their trips. The threat posed by climate change, the increased flooding it brings, should have Houstonians worried that meteorologists’ important work will be interrupted.

Hundreds of astronomers likewise were forced to cancel their attendance at the American Astronomical Society meeting this week.


This does not even take into account the psychological impacts. I am fortunate enough to work at NASA, ranked in 2018 as the best place to work in the federal government. But I still wince when year after year politicians call federal employees lazy or unnecessary. The current administration and some members of Congress express clear disdain or outright hostility toward a variety of federal employees, including climate scientists, State Department staff and intelligence workers.

Adding to this negativity, treating civil servants as pawns in the budget process is downright demoralizing. I would anticipate, especially if the shutdown continues on much longer, that many people will look elsewhere for employment. Without a doubt many of the younger people who are needed to refresh the ranks of retiring workers will think twice about pursuing opportunities in the federal workforce.

President Trump came to office in 2016 claiming that he had a mandate for a border wall. Yet even when Republicans held all three branches of government, he was unable to get funding for a physical barrier. Democrats captured the House in the midterm elections due in part due toopposition to the wall. Public opinion polls routinely show that a clear majority of the nation does not want the wall.

So what should the president and Congress do? First, they need to stop holding public servants hostage and immediately approve the spending bills that were passed by the Senate last year and by the House this year. They should also provide back wages for those who were furloughed. Then, the appropriations process needs to be revamped so that the government stops lurching along on continuing resolutions and shutdowns, using its own citizens as a bludgeon for special interests.


Dempsey works on NASA’s Commercial Crew Program.
 
Aug 21, 2003
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Congressional Republicans had been trying to put together a deal that gave the Democrats something but Trump shot it down several times because he thought the Supreme Court was going to hand him a win (they have yet to grant cert to the case).

What a dumbass.
 
Aug 21, 2003
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Relatedly it looks like Trump's disapproval is rising, up 5 points in the CNN poll since before the shutdown. Opinions across the polls on who is to blame for the shutdown still basically unchanged in blaming Trump by a large margin.
 

zzyzxroad

Senior member
Jan 29, 2017
647
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Relatedly it looks like Trump's disapproval is rising, up 5 points in the CNN poll since before the shutdown. Opinions across the polls on who is to blame for the shutdown still basically unchanged in blaming Trump by a large margin.
Probably because it is his fault. Only suckers think otherwise.
 
Aug 21, 2003
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Probably because it is his fault. Only suckers think otherwise.
About 30% say that the Dems are responsible. If he's not careful that could become a new floor for his approval. Certainly as times goes on and patience amongst the nation is exhausted.
 

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