Religious thread - if you don't like religious threads - DONT READ IT.

[notfred]

Yeah, I already know there will msot likely be flaming in this thread. If you don't like religious threads press "back" now.


Christians - How do you know God loves you? And, would you marry someone who displayed thier love the same way as God displays his love to you?

 

[N8Magic]

I'm suppose to give you a time out for that N8Magic. Instead I'll just give you a warning and ask you not to post that again.

 

[minendo]

<< IBTL. >>


Preparing for a vacation?

 

[notfred]

what the heck is IB*L?

There's too damn many acronyms these days.

edit: apparently it's a forbidden word.

 

[N8Magic]

<< what the heck is IB*L? >>



In Before The Lock.

Well I guess you want a time out. See you next week.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

<< what the heck is IB*L?

There's too damn many acronyms these days.

edit: apparently it's a forbidden word. >>

Correct.

Oh well.

Anyway, I know better than to get into these threads because I know what they turn into -no matter what. They always do.

nik (staying out this time)

<edited for not being stupid>

 

[notfred]

apparently, the only people who like religious threads are people who don't practice religion

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

<< apparently, the only people who like religious threads are people who don't practice religion >>

Know why? Because those people like to come in here and see just how much damage they can do. Religious people might be avoiding these things now because there are very few here who will actually have a logical discussion instead of a name calling flame war. I am one of them.

nik

 

[xirtam]

Holy cow! The thread's been alive for ten minutes and people are questioning the overwhelming silence by those to whom the topic was directed!

Dude... some of us have lives outside anandtech.

Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love to us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

That's what I call unconditional love. Agape love. Would I marry someone who displayed their love that same way? Well, not if they were dead. If they were willing to die for me? There would definitely be other factors.

Love: the choice, not the feeling.

Flaming? Am I going to get burned at the stake for that? Gosh, I sure hope not. There's too much hate in this world as it is.

 

[Orsorum]

There have recently been a few extraordinarily active and productive threads on various religious topics... there's nothing wrong with discussing a topic, just have to make sure that you actually give a rip about the question(s) being asked.

Just from my experience.

 

[notfred]

So, god's love was a single act committed 2,000 years ago? Does god still demonstrate love for his followers?

 

[AreaCode707]

NART. My conviction about God's love has a few different sources; namely experience, Bible, external evidence, and the experience of others. Any experiences I cite of my own are both unprovable and irrefutable, since they are my personal experiences and can't convince any of you. I can say I know that I've experienced the presence of God in his love and there's no calling it one way or the other, it is completely personal.
The Bible is a bit trickier because there are two components. Is it a historically accurate document and is it telling the truth? I believe it is a historically accurate document. We have more copies of early manuscripts of the Bible than we do of almost any other historically accepted document. I find the teachings in the Bible, particularly the New Testament which fulfilled the Old and created a new way of living for God's people, to be worthwhile and consistant with real life. The principals in it are good, which is the way most people choose their religions, and it describes a spiritual material world view that I find to be practical and consistant with logic (read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis). Again, experience plays into this because my experience confirms what is presented as truth about God in the Bible.
External evidence. This is basically the principals of the Bible enacted and operating in real life and how well they fit into the world. As I said, I find them to be worthwhile and promoting helpful, healthful interactions between people. I conclude that God designed the world to work a certain way and when we follow the way that he, in his love, designed for us, things work better. More about external evidence but it's 12:30 and I'm too incoherent to put it down.
The experience of others is, again, unprovable one way or the other, but when I am talking to people I trust and have found them to be honest, practical, and so on in other matters of their life, I tend to consider what they say with more belief than I would if they decieved me.

God's love is something I have experienced, learned about, witnessed operating in the world, and seen in others.

Would I marry someone that displayed their love the same way as God displays his love? Too tall an order for a human. I don't see how you can experience such love and not desire to love entirely in return so I would probably attempt to do whatever pleases that person, as I attempt (keyword: attempt) to do whatever pleases God in return for his absolute love for me and everyone in the world. God gave more than anyone else can ever give, in demonstrating his love.

Boy I get wordy when I'm tired.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

<< So, god's love was a single act committed 2,000 years ago? Does god still demonstrate love for his followers? >>

Since Christ died for the sins of the world, I think He loves more than just His followers.

DANG IT. HOW DID I GET BACK IN HERE!? WHAT THE...

*sprays "ffm-be-gone" on the door handle to this thread as he walks out

nik

 

[AreaCode707]

<< So, god's love was a single act committed 2,000 years ago? Does god still demonstrate love for his followers? >>



He only needed to do that once, but he extends the ramifications of his act to us all, forever. He did that then as much for you today as he did for the people that lived at that time. He still demonstrates his love in offering you forgiveness of all your sins through his sinless life and unjust suffering. It's as much of an offer now as it was when he died and rose.

 

[notfred]

A modification to my original question: Is god's love to his followers really lvoe in the earthly sense of the word? It doesn't seem comparablew to any of the other definitions we use of love.

Actually, the only things we've heard to describe god's love are Jesus' death on the cross (Which I find is better described by the word sacrifice than love) and some undescribable experience

And another question - does god love those who don't beleive in him? If so, shouldn't I feel this "undescribeable experience" at some point, even if I mistake it for something else?

 

[notfred]

<<

<< So, god's love was a single act committed 2,000 years ago? Does god still demonstrate love for his followers? >>

Since Christ died for the sins of the world, I think He loves more than just His followers.

DANG IT. HOW DID I GET BACK IN HERE!? WHAT THE...

*sprays "ffm-be-gone" on the door handle to this thread as he walks out

nik >>



From my experience with christianity, Christ did not die for the world, he only died for the part of the world that follows him. If he died for everyone, then why do you have to accept christ as your savior before being allowed into heaven?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

<<

<<

<< So, god's love was a single act committed 2,000 years ago? Does god still demonstrate love for his followers? >>

Since Christ died for the sins of the world, I think He loves more than just His followers.

DANG IT. HOW DID I GET BACK IN HERE!? WHAT THE...

*sprays "ffm-be-gone" on the door handle to this thread as he walks out

nik >>



From my experience with christianity, Christ did not die for the world, he only died for the part of the world that follows him. If he died for everyone, then why do you have to accept christ as your savior before being allowed into heaven? >>

I hate you for making me post.

Anyway, Christ extends his forgiveness and love to everyone, reguardless. You don't choose to go to heaven by accepting it, you choose separation from God (hell) by refusing that forgiveness.

nik

 

[notfred]

<< You don't choose to go to heaven by accepting it, you choose separation from God (hell) by refusing that forgiveness.

nik >>



How are those two things different?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

The end result is the same. The means by which you get there are different.

nik

 

[notfred]

That doesn't make any sense.

Accept Jesus and go to Heaven, Reject Jesus and go to hell - right?

You're saying you go to heaven by default, unless you choose to reject Jesus?

However, since there's only two options, and if you don't actively accept Jesus, you automatically have rejected him, the "everyone who doesn't reject Jesus goes to heaven" argumen hardly applies.

 

[AreaCode707]

<< That doesn't make any sense.

Accept Jesus and go to Heaven, Reject Jesus and go to hell - right?

You're saying you go to heaven by default, unless you choose to reject Jesus?

However, since there's only two options, and if you don't actively accept Jesus, you automatically have rejected him, the "everyone who doesn't reject Jesus goes to heaven" argumen hardly applies. >>



There is no way to not choose. The choice is laid out and you get your pick. Refusing to choose is a choice to reject love. If you're with a girl, she says, do you love me or not, and you say you don't want to choose, she's not going to treat you like you love her.

 

[notfred]

<<

<< That doesn't make any sense.

Accept Jesus and go to Heaven, Reject Jesus and go to hell - right?

You're saying you go to heaven by default, unless you choose to reject Jesus?

However, since there's only two options, and if you don't actively accept Jesus, you automatically have rejected him, the "everyone who doesn't reject Jesus goes to heaven" argumen hardly applies. >>



There is no way to not choose. The choice is laid out and you get your pick. Refusing to choose is a choice to reject love. If you're with a girl, she says, do you love me or not, and you say you don't want to choose, she's not going to treat you like you love her. >>



Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And by the same logic, Jesus didn't die for everyone, he only died for the people that want to accept him.

 

[Spike]

maybe this will clear it up... but maybe not. As far as I understand it (I am not a new Christian, but I still have a ton to learn) God sent his son to die for our sins. This means that all we have to do is accept that he did that for us and we are "in" The Bible calls us to pursue a righteous life and to try and strive to be like Jesus, but really the bare minimum is just that you choose to accept Christs sacrifice for you. If you don't choose to accept it, then you don't go to heaven, there is no other way around that. As far as I can tell from Bible studies with friends and reading on my own, there are exceptions for children who die before they are old enough to really make that decision, but I am sitll not sure about that. Does that help at all?

 

[gopunk]

There is no way to not choose. The choice is laid out and you get your pick. Refusing to choose is a choice to reject love. If you're with a girl, she says, do you love me or not, and you say you don't want to choose, she's not going to treat you like you love her.

suppose i could fly, or do something amazing like that. suppose some people kept on telling a girl that i loved her, along with telling her that i could do things like create planets. she never really sees, hears, or interacts with me at all. do i have a right to be pissed if she doesn't love me back?

 

[AreaCode707]

<< From my experience with christianity, Christ did not die for the world, he only died for the part of the world that follows him. If he died for everyone, then why do you have to accept christ as your savior before being allowed into heaven?

And another question - does god love those who don't beleive in him? If so, shouldn't I feel this "undescribeable experience" at some point, even if I mistake it for something else? >>



Christ died for the whole world. He offers a gift of salvation to everyone, no exclusivity. You have to believe he's real and he did what he said he did in order to take the gift, or else you don't percieve the salvation as being either real or a gift.

God does love those who don't believe in him. The experience of knowing him and his love isn't something he's going to shove on you. When someone who cares about you and honors your right to make your own choices knocks on your door and you ignore them or yell at them to go away, are they going to come in or let you make your choice? Force their will on you or give you free will of your own? That's what he does, so he's waiting outside the door and you get to make the choice to invite him in and talk with him, get to know him, and experience who he is.