Religious discrimination or not?

[Zargon]

I work at a community college stupid.

and what does that have to do with High School? different worlds.

1) teachers unions

2) teaching requirements are totally different

3) teachers unions

 

[ShawnD1]

It would definitely work to hire a university math student. If you're in university trying to get a math degree and you don't even have a solid understanding of high school math, then it's time to kill yourself.

 

[Zargon]

It would definitely work to hire a university math student. If you're in university trying to get a math degree and you don't even have a solid understanding of high school math, then it's time to kill yourself.

except it wont work, as I already said.

here is why

 

[ShawnD1]

except it wont work, as I already said.

here is why

Just change the rules and there ya go. Git er dun. That $30 fee also seems a bitch much; you could buy like 5 tabs of E for that much :ninja:

 

[Zargon]

LOL 30 bucks a year or whatever to make a few grand, its IL, the fact that its not 300 bucks is the biggest surprise!

 

[Fern]

Felt this part needed quoting:

The Supreme Court has interpreted the provision narrowly, saying accommodations should be granted only if they impose a minimal burden on employers.

Does not bode well for her chances.

I don't think the DoJ has any decent reason to be jumping in here. Political grandstanding of a questioable nature.

I also saw this:

"This was a profoundly personal request by a person of faith," said Tom Perez, assistant attorney general for civil rights

This seems a very odd statement when considering the law and he's an attorney. The law seems focus on the burden to the employer, not the sincerity of the person's belief. Why the h3ll would he even go there?

Fern

 

[sandorski]

I don't know the Islamic rules regarding this and on the face of it I don't think this is Religious Discrimination, but from what I understand she notified the School of this in August. You would think the school could have prepared for it by December and I wonder what was discussed in August.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Why is religion even a protected class? You choose to be religious!

You don't choose to be black, gay, female etc, so they should be protected.

But somehow, because you choose to believe some bullshit, that entitles you to fuck around at your job?

 

[Scotteq]

Why is religion even a protected class? You choose to be religious!

You don't choose to be black, gay, female etc, so they should be protected.

But somehow, because you choose to believe some bullshit, that entitles you to fuck around at your job?

I'm sure any number of people here will gleefully correct me, but the laws are in place to prevent organisations from "Discriminating Against People On The Basis Of Religion, Race, Or Creed". For example - As a hiring manager, refusing to hire a Muslim for a job is illegal. Along the lines of this thread, denying a Muslim a holiday or vacation which is available to Christians would also be illegal.


The law is *not* written so that minorities can (ab)use their status in order to gain priveledge not granted to other groups. i.e. As a Pastafarian, I can not use my religion in order to gain a week's holy pilgrammage to the shrine at Alfredo alla Scrofa in Rome, when said priveledge is not granted to Christians, Muslims, or to worshippers of the Invisible Pink Unicorn.



So a Hiring Manager can not deny employment on the basis of Religion (Race, Creed, etc). In return, the Individual is expected to adhere to the job requirements as long as said requirements are equal among all employees.

 

[jonks]

Why is religion even a protected class? You choose to be religious!

Yes and no. You could get a gender reassignment if you wanted to and that would legally change your sex, but it doesn't mean you are choosing your gender by not doing so. Keep reading before objecting the the comparison which I admit is extreme.

The legal analysis for protected classes includes the determination of whether the characteristic identifying the demographic at issue is "sufficiently immutable" that while changing it may not strictly speaking be impossible, it is nevertheless difficult or occurs with great infrequency. If you grow up in a family practicing a particular religion in a town where that religion is dominant, to say you chose that religion is not telling the whole story. Yes, you can change religion, but for many people it's impractical or even damaging to their familial relationships. I think it's a bit simplistic to say all the children cum adults in Saudi Arabia chose to be Muslim.

The courts try to recognize the spirit of the law, and anti-discrimination statutes shouldn't be predicated solely on what is impossible to change, since as we've seen such things are less permanent than you'd think.

 

[Zargon]

I don't know the Islamic rules regarding this and on the face of it I don't think this is Religious Discrimination, but from what I understand she notified the School of this in August. You would think the school could have prepared for it by December and I wonder what was discussed in August.

its not that they CAN'T persay, its that they shouldnt be obligated to just because. its expensive and should be considered an undue burden on the employer.

unless she wants to take it WITHOUT pay

 

[werepossum]

Yes and no. You could get a gender reassignment if you wanted to and that would legally change your sex, but it doesn't mean you are choosing your gender by not doing so. Keep reading before objecting the the comparison which I admit is extreme.

The legal analysis for protected classes includes the determination of whether the characteristic identifying the demographic at issue is "sufficiently immutable" that while changing it may not strictly speaking be impossible, it is nevertheless difficult or occurs with great infrequency. If you grow up in a family practicing a particular religion in a town where that religion is dominant, to say you chose that religion is not telling the whole story. Yes, you can change religion, but for many people it's impractical or even damaging to their familial relationships. I think it's a bit simplistic to say all the children cum adults in Saudi Arabia chose to be Muslim.

The courts try to recognize the spirit of the law, and anti-discrimination statutes shouldn't be predicated solely on what is impossible to change, since as we've seen such things are less permanent than you'd think.

Good point. I think though that for a teacher specifically hired to run a math lab to prepare students for math tests to ask for three weeks off right before those tests puts an undo strain on the employer. And it totally negates any benefit from hiring her; if she's hired to help students take a particular test or set of tests, and she wants to not be there during the preparation for those tests, she is worthless to the school. I would agree if she wanted accommodation in some manner that did not affect her job efficiency.

 

[rudder]

I don't think the DoJ has any decent reason to be jumping in here. Political grandstanding of a questioable nature.

Muslim community brownie points.

 

[Macamus Prime]

So now Obama is being critized for going after muslims?

You people can't make up your minds,...

 

[Fern]

So now Obama is being critized for going after muslims?
You people can't make up your minds,...

What?

Reading comprehension, my friend.

Fern

 

[werepossum]

What?

Reading comprehension, my friend.

Fern

In his defense, he didn't hurt himself while typing that. Or short circuit the keyboard with drool. Those are major steps forward. Little things like understanding whom is going after whom will have to wait for that day when the helmet can be removed. Well, removed when he's sitting down indoors. Even dreams have to have a slight basis in reality.

 

[ahenkel]

We should just outlaw teachers entirely. They waste way too much time filling our kids with facts and knowledge. All kids need are a bible and a copy of the ten commandments.

 

[Throckmorton]

LOL, does Mecca close during the summer?

 

[werepossum]

LOL, does Mecca close during the summer?

beloved patriot falls at certain times, according to the solar calender. (Mandatory break for an explanation as to all the advances Islam has brought the world, to make up for the slur of pointing out that they don't know the length of our year.) Had she not gone that year, she would have had to wait eight years for an official beloved patriot during a school year vacation if memory serves. (And then of course she'd have to deal with Spring Break in Mecca, flashing her boobs for beer, doing jello shots . . .)

 

[sandorski]

its not that they CAN'T persay, its that they shouldnt be obligated to just because. its expensive and should be considered an undue burden on the employer.

unless she wants to take it WITHOUT pay

If they notified her then that they couldn't, then ok, but if they said to her she could go, then I think she has a case.

 

[Throckmorton]

Apparently there is a specific time for the pilgrimmage. Which she knew before she took the job...

 

[Darwin333]

If a school system hires a muslim, then they have to expect them to eventually make a pilgrimige. I think it is a reasonable request.

I hire people, are you saying that if I don't want to deal with unreasonable requests like 3 friggen weeks off during the time that I need that employee the most I should go out of my way to not hire Muslims? Somehow I doubt that is legal.

Might I ask who you work for that would grant such a request at the worst possible time? Hell, I have never been able to take 3 straight weeks off in my life much less 3 weeks when my employer needs me the most.

 

[Darwin333]

If they notified her then that they couldn't, then ok, but if they said to her she could go, then I think she has a case.

I have canceled peoples vacations before for various reasons. Granted I made sure it wasn't going to cost them anything (nonrefundable deposits or whatnot) but I am missing something here.

Doesn't she have to at least have some sort of evidence that they denied her 3 week vacation request due to her religion??? I have read all sorts of plausible and understandable reasons for the school to deny her request but have yet to read the slightest thing indicating that they denied it due to her religion. Even if they previously agreed to it and then changed their minds, how does that alone constitute religious discrimination?

I assume there is something there for the DOJ to pick it up but unless her superiors are flat out idiots I can't imagine what it is...

 

[sandorski]

I have canceled peoples vacations before for various reasons. Granted I made sure it wasn't going to cost them anything (nonrefundable deposits or whatnot) but I am missing something here.

Doesn't she have to at least have some sort of evidence that they denied her 3 week vacation request due to her religion??? I have read all sorts of plausible and understandable reasons for the school to deny her request but have yet to read the slightest thing indicating that they denied it due to her religion. Even if they previously agreed to it and then changed their minds, how does that alone constitute religious discrimination?

I assume there is something there for the DOJ to pick it up but unless her superiors are flat out idiots I can't imagine what it is...

Ya, that's the problem with this claim on Religious discrimination grounds. There might be a Religious Discrimination aspect to it, but I kinda doubt it. I think the school probably dropped the ball here and they shouldn't have, but I think it wasn't Religious Discrimination, although it could be.

 

[Throckmorton]

beloved patriot falls at certain times, according to the solar calender. (Mandatory break for an explanation as to all the advances Islam has brought the world, to make up for the slur of pointing out that they don't know the length of our year.) Had she not gone that year, she would have had to wait eight years for an official beloved patriot during a school year vacation if memory serves. (And then of course she'd have to deal with Spring Break in Mecca, flashing her boobs for beer, doing jello shots . . .)

Why can't she go next year?! I don't get it...