Religious discrimination or not?

[rudder]

So obama's justice department is suing an Illinois school district because they denied leave to a teacher. The leave was for the teacher to attend a pilgrimage to mecca which many muslims do at least once in a lifetime.

This teacher was the school's only math lab instructor and the leave request was for a critical period right before the end of the semester.

I think the DoJ is overstepping their bounds and in a bid for the obama administration to be kinder and gentler to the muslim community, is going after this district to make an example of them. The teacher was hired to perform a duty. She knew the duty schedule prior to accepting the position. She knew her role at the school and it's importance. She was only on the job for nine months. To me she was irresponsible to accept the position. Except for medical purposes, it does not matter what the reason for requesting 3 weeks leave... It would be safe to say that 99.9% of any schools districts would deny such a request. More so if it was for a key teaching spot during an important time frame for the school. Had she been granted the leave this would be discrimination against every other teacher who would be denied leave if they were not muslim. I know if my wife wanted to take 3 weeks leave during the state's testing period... she would not only get a no... she would get a hell no.

So let say i work as a pilot. I am also a member of the native American church. Would I have a case against my employer if they denied my 2 week leave request to go sit in the desert and take peyote? That is a legitimate religious practice (American Indian religious Freedom act of 1994).

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2011/03/school_district_that_denied_le.html

 

[FerrelGeek]

This teacher should have no case. There is no reason that she has to make her haj during the school year. There is no dictate in Islam whatsoever that would require her to do so. If she wants to do it during the school year, she's free to take the time off unpaid, just like my company would allow me to do.

Wonder where the ACLU will come down on this issue...

 

[Texashiker]

Religious discrimination or not?

Its the American way - You either be here when we need you, or your fired.

I do not think that is discrimination, its our American workaholic attitude. In other words, its the American way.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Why is the Obama admin handling this instead of the ACLU or the individual?

The leave was for the teacher to attend a pilgrimage to mecca which many muslims do at least once in a lifetime.

It cannot wait till Summer? Is she terminally ill or thinks she is likely to die before the summer? Or is there something special about the date she picked in regards to the religion?

Also, she wants 3 weeks off (for non-medical reasons) and she has only been working there 9 months?

 

[dfuze]

I don't think there is any discrimination involved as her religion says for her to make the trek once in a lifetime, not that it has to be this year, there is no reason why the teacher can't take the leave at another time.

 

[Zargon]

This teacher should have no case. There is no reason that she has to make her haj during the school year. There is no dictate in Islam whatsoever that would require her to do so. If she wants to do it during the school year, she's free to take the time off unpaid, just like my company would allow me to do.

Wonder where the ACLU will come down on this issue...

this.

she can go in summer when she knows she isnt working.

 

[jonks]

Don't know enough to comment yet except that it's amusing that conservatives have to decide whether they hate Obama more than they love defending religous practices. Fox has apparently experienced a split of sorts. Of course, if the teacher had been Christian...

As to the thread title question,

the school needs to prove that it could not spare this teacher for the three weeks during the school year. Can it do that? I have no idea. It hasn't offered that evidence to date. It will have to prove that in a court of law, and if it can, it will win. If it cannot, the Department of Justice will win. Period. [Fox News, America Live, 3/23/11]

so there ya go

 

[TechBoyJK]

Yea no case imho.

She took a job, knowing the schedule. Not only would she had been leaving the school for THREE weeks, it was during a critical testing period, and was the only teacher of her kind there. To say it wouldn't have impacted the school is absurd.

What if Albert Pujols wanted to visit mecca during the world series?

 

[Scotteq]

I have a Muslim office mate here, and she tells me that one should make the Hajj because one is ready to make the Hajj. Not to start shit with a school system.

Also - The Haj is traditionally 10 days. Not 3 weeks.

Thirdly - One should make the Hajj at "Some Time During Their Life", and if the act of making it would create upheaval, then it's perfectly acceptable to do it at another time.

 

[ShawnD1]

Also, she wants 3 weeks off (for non-medical reasons) and she has only been working there 9 months?

It's good to be in a union (seriously, it is)


Why would a female teacher want to go to Mecca? They would probably stone her to death because she's a woman who knows how to read or do math.

 

[Scotteq]

Why would a female teacher want to go to Mecca? They would probably stone her to death because she's a woman who knows how to read or do math.

Women are also expected to participate in the Hajj, if they can afford to do so.

 

[ShawnD1]

Women are also expected to participate in the Hajj, if they can afford to do so.

They'll stone her to death for carrying money. Only men can carry money. And women who walk without husband should also be stoned because they are likely prostitutes. If you get stoned on weed, you will be stoned for that too.

 

[jonks]

Yea no case imho.

She took a job, knowing the schedule. Not only would she had been leaving the school for THREE weeks, it was during a critical testing period, and was the only teacher of her kind there. To say it wouldn't have impacted the school is absurd.

What if Albert Pujols wanted to visit mecca during the world series?

Then the cardinals would have to prove that they couldn't spare him at that time. I think they'd probably win that case. Here it remains to be seen.

It's nice everyone has an opinion and all, anyone care what the law is or nah?

 

[FerrelGeek]

Don't know enough to comment yet except that it's amusing that conservatives have to decide whether they hate Obama more than they love defending religous practices. Fox has apparently experienced a split of sorts. Of course, if the teacher had been Christian...

Nice try, but totally lame. Her religious freedom isn't being taken away for reasons that multiple people have stated here. There is no reason the the federal DOJ should get involved in this case; let the ACLU have it. Typical Chicago style bullying/intimidation on Obama/Holder. They're the ones making this political, not conservatives.

 

[bfdd]

Yeah... I'm not getting the whole suing the school because you want personal time off for your own personal beliefs. That shit is stupid. If she gets 3 weeks off for Mecca, any teach there should be able to get 3 weeks paid off to do whatever the fuck they want. If some teacher wants to get his or her Charlie Sheen on they should get three weeks off without the risk of being fired.

 

[Linflas]

Its the American way - You either be here when we need you, or your fired.

I do not think that is discrimination, its our American workaholic attitude. In other words, its the American way.

The nerve of an employer to expect an employee to be there when needed, it is just so friggin outrageous!

And to answer the OP, not.

 

[werepossum]

it's good to be in a union (seriously, it is)


why would a female teacher want to go to mecca? They would probably stone her to death because she's a woman who knows how to read or do math.

lol +1

 

[Scotteq]

This teacher should have no case. There is no reason that she has to make her haj during the school year. There is no dictate in Islam whatsoever that would require her to do so. If she wants to do it during the school year, she's free to take the time off unpaid, just like my company would allow me to do.

Wonder where the ACLU will come down on this issue...

Minor Correction: The timing of an actual Hajj is dictated by the Muslim calendar. You may go at another time, but that's not considered a Hajj, and is called "Umrah". She would still be expected to make an actual Hajj at some other point in her life.

 

[jonks]

Nice try, but totally lame. Her religious freedom isn't being taken away for reasons that multiple people have stated here. There is no reason the the federal DOJ should get involved in this case; let the ACLU have it. Typical Chicago style bullying/intimidation on Obama/Holder. They're the ones making this political, not conservatives.

Sounds like your opinion. What do lawyers say?

KELLY: Alright Jonna, so it's not just this woman, Safoorah now, fighting on her own behalf. Eric Holder, the Justice Department has stepped in. They're going after this school saying, "You're intolerant against Muslims. You should have let her go on this three-week pilgrimage, even though it was in the middle of December." Is the DOJ right?

SPILBORN: I think they are. And let me just go on record, as an employer I don't love Title VII in all of its parts, I don't. But, it is the law, and them's the rules. And Title VII says, if you're an employer of over 15 people, you have to reasonably accommodate a person's religious beliefs. Just like you have to accommodate a nursing mother, or pregnant women, and the list goes on.

KELLY: Or an observant Jew who comes and says "I don't want to work Friday night or Saturday' or a Catholic who doesn't want to work on Sunday.

SPILBORN: Exactly, so those are the rules, and they need to be abided by, and this school has not. And in order for the school to prevail, they're going to have to show some sort of hardship. I don't think they can do it.

[...]

KELLY: It's not legal for a school district to be intolerant against members of the Muslim community, if there are teachers who are making a legitimate request, right?

SPILBORN: Well, exactly. So, while you could turn it into a political argument, if you look at it factually I don't think it has anything to do with politics.

KELLY: Well it's a really interesting case, and it is unusual for the Department of Justice to step in on something like this rather than just say - normally they say "you go ahead and you pursue it and we'll see how it turns out." Jonna, Mercedes, thank you.

One final word for our viewers -- the school needs to prove that it could not spare this teacher for the three weeks during the school year. Can it do that? I have no idea. It hasn't offered that evidence to date. It will have to prove that in a court of law, and if it can, it will win. If it cannot, the Department of Justice will win. Period. [Fox News, America Live, 3/23/11]

 

[ShawnD1]

So I can now make shit up and take 3 weeks leave? Awesome. My religious believe is to vacation in....... let's say southern France for 3 weeks. Later, suckas


Also, I feel discriminated against as a Christian. I've had several jobs where I was required to work on Christmas Day. I was paid overtime because it's a stat holiday, but I still feel violated. I should sue all of those companies.

 

[JS80]

Its the American way - You either be here when we need you, or your fired.

I do not think that is discrimination, its our American workaholic attitude. In other words, its the American way.

Earning your keep. The American way. So horrific!

 

[Matt1970]

As to the thread title question,
the school needs to prove that it could not spare this teacher for the three weeks during the school year. Can it do that? I have no idea. It hasn't offered that evidence to date. It will have to prove that in a court of law, and if it can, it will win. If it cannot, the Department of Justice will win. Period. [Fox News, America Live, 3/23/11]

so there ya go

This teacher was the school's only math lab instructor and the leave request was for a critical period right before the end of the semester.

 

[Zargon]

So I can now make shit up and take 3 weeks leave? Awesome. My religious believe is to vacation in....... let's say southern France for 3 weeks. Later, suckas


Also, I feel discriminated against as a Christian. I've had several jobs where I was required to work on Christmas Day. I was paid overtime because it's a stat holiday, but I still feel violated. I should sue all of those companies.

the school should point it budget woes and the cost of paying for a sub for the 3 weeks.

I too have had to work numerous religious holidays before, and been called in on xmas ETC.

KELLY: Or an observant Jew who comes and says "I don't want to work Friday night or Saturday' or a Catholic who doesn't want to work on Sunday.

SPILBORN: Exactly, so those are the rules, and they need to be abided by, and this school has not. And in order for the school to prevail, they're going to have to show some sort of hardship. I don't think they can do it.

[...]

huh? like that would EVER fly.

that dude is full of it.

 

[jonks]

huh? like that would EVER fly.

that dude is full of it.

What are you talking about? Religious Jews don't work friday night, they go home early.

 

[Texashiker]

I think I will change my religion to roman catholic, take a month off to go to rome and make a holy pilgrimage.

I am sure there are all kinds of sites I can see,,, uh,,,,, I mean pray at in Rome.