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Religious and conservative? Well The New Testament is a liberal's paradise

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Moonbeam,
Hidden presumes that someone or some thing secreted away the object hidden out of sight and obscured by something with the intention of it not being found by casual, refined and extensive search. How could this be the objective of God. It would presume there are only so many beds in heaven and God wanted the task to get to heaven to be a difficult one which contradicts the ease by which Jesus (God) provided... Simply belief in Him.
 
jjsole, taxes != charity

That, IMO, is one of the biggest scams that the left has pulled off. Taxes are involuntary. Charity is voluntary. Taxes are collected at gunpoint. Charity is given with an open and caring heart. To you the difference may not matter as long as a hungry family gets fed, but to me it means everything. What was once a system of love and generosity has now become extortion and inter-class bribery.

As for the religious "right", I couldn't agree more. They are hypocrites. Modern-day Pharisees.
But, IMO, the Left is no less hypocritical than the Right.
 
Moonster,
I believe we judge others if we have condemned ourselves. It is our of our self condemnation that we judge. To judge, then is to fix the self condemnation.
**********

It seems to me Jesus may have been saying exactly this. We will refuse Jesus because we see ourselves as evil, unworthy and therefore reject Jesus as unattainable. We will eagerly reach for the attainable evil since we are worthy of evil... I think we think this when we reject God and do so in the hidden bowels of our thinking..

 
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Moonbeam,
Hidden presumes that someone or some thing secreted away the object hidden out of sight and obscured by something with the intention of it not being found by casual, refined and extensive search. How could this be the objective of God. It would presume there are only so many beds in heaven and God wanted the task to get to heaven to be a difficult one which contradicts the ease by which Jesus (God) provided... Simply belief in Him.
Click to expand...

I wish that were easy.

Edit:

Moonster,
I believe we judge others if we have condemned ourselves. It is our of our self condemnation that we judge. To judge, then is to fix the self condemnation.
**********

It seems to me Jesus may have been saying exactly this. We will refuse Jesus because we see ourselves as evil, unworthy and therefore reject Jesus as unattainable. We will eagerly reach for the attainable evil since we are worthy of evil... I think we think this when we reject God and do so in the hidden bowels of our thinking..

I think so.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
jjsole, taxes != charity

That, IMO, is one of the biggest scams that the left has pulled off. Taxes are involuntary. Charity is voluntary. Taxes are collected at gunpoint. Charity is given with an open and caring heart. To you the difference may not matter as long as a hungry family gets fed, but to me it means everything. What was once a system of love and generosity has now become extortion and inter-class bribery.

As for the religious "right", I couldn't agree more. They are hypocrites. Modern-day Pharisees.
But, IMO, the Left is no less hypocritical than the Right.
Click to expand...
So if you got your choice between a world where everybody is forced to give and kids get to eat from the ill gotten gains or a world where charity was voluntary and half the people were starving, which would you choose?

 
Moonbeam,

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Moonbeam,
Hidden presumes that someone or some thing secreted away the object hidden out of sight and obscured by something with the intention of it not being found by casual, refined and extensive search. How could this be the objective of God. It would presume there are only so many beds in heaven and God wanted the task to get to heaven to be a difficult one which contradicts the ease by which Jesus (God) provided... Simply belief in Him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I wish that were easy.


Well if it ain't Jesus died for nothing and what is recorded is inaccurate. But, I have it first hand that it is the truth.. least ways I asked Jesus to let me know if I was in error by letting the WMD be found in Iraq.. they won't, it is and you can take that to the bank.. 😀

Perhaps you mean something else which I suspect is the case.. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
So if you got your choice between a world where everybody is forced to give and kids get to eat from the ill gotten gains or a world where charity was voluntary and half the people were starving, which would you choose?
Click to expand...
I think you know that answer, Moonie, even if you don't like it.
Save the world by theft? The ends do not justify the means. And what end would finally acheive when you combat evil... with evil?
 
Originally posted by: MegaloManiaK
blah blah blah

ill paypal you a dollar if you can say something usefull that hasn't been posted here before.

aint happening.
Click to expand...
see sig
 
Originally posted by: Vic
jjsole, taxes != charity That, IMO, is one of the biggest scams that the left has pulled off. Taxes are involuntary. Charity is voluntary. Taxes are collected at gunpoint. Charity is given with an open and caring heart. To you the difference may not matter as long as a hungry family gets fed, but to me it means everything. What was once a system of love and generosity has now become extortion and inter-class bribery. As for the religious "right", I couldn't agree more. They are hypocrites. Modern-day Pharisees. But, IMO, the Left is no less hypocritical than the Right.
Click to expand...

The object is to get it done and do what it takes to make it happen. If taxes are necessary for programs, then give to ceasar what is ceasars and pay for the programs. It should be of the highest priorities and there's nothing unbiblical about taxes paying for such programs, and its not a scam devised by democrats. To see the disparity among so many people and whine about taxes paying to help them out is gutless and selfish to the core imo. There is so much waste in government with the priorities for spending billions so out of whack with the needs of our society that better/new programs could easily be paid for. Its a disgrace at best, scam in the least to say it can't be afforded or we shouldn't have to pay for it.

Neither is there anything in the new testament that says all of the money that you get through capitalism and its exploitive practices are immune from supporting the needs of society, and that this responsibility to all of us should be only a choice and not an obligation. If there is, please show me where.

Its a biblical responsibility and its especially indignantly ignored by the conservative republican agenda.

What do they focus on instead? Anti-gay, anti-abortion initiatives because it doesn't cost them anything to rant about others, and thats cowardly imo. One of the most pitiful examples I see is that conservatives are often willing to go to all extremes to show support the life of the unborn, but won't do crap for the ones who are already born and might be facing the burden of life's hardships. What a farce.

Left is the democrats, these ungodly liberal sinners, profiting from the republicans lack of compassion for the have-nots, being the only ones pushing for these initiatives to provide for the basic needs of people. I don't find that a scam but find it an agenda that would much more align with Jesus' concerns and principles.
 
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Moonbeam,

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Moonbeam,
Hidden presumes that someone or some thing secreted away the object hidden out of sight and obscured by something with the intention of it not being found by casual, refined and extensive search. How could this be the objective of God. It would presume there are only so many beds in heaven and God wanted the task to get to heaven to be a difficult one which contradicts the ease by which Jesus (God) provided... Simply belief in Him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just mean it ain't easy to believe in Jesus. I know it's easy for you, but not for me. What I believe and what you believe are very different things. To me he is the son of man.
================

Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
So if you got your choice between a world where everybody is forced to give and kids get to eat from the ill gotten gains or a world where charity was voluntary and half the people were starving, which would you choose?
Click to expand...
I think you know that answer, Moonie, even if you don't like it.
Save the world by theft? The ends do not justify the means. And what end would finally acheive when you combat evil... with evil?
Click to expand...

I will gladly combat evil with evil for the sake of those kids. What about you. You say I know the answer, but I want to hear which of those two worlds you would choose. Both are evil, but one's got no hungry kids. You look for God after you got something to eat.
Click to expand...
 
Moonster,
I just mean it ain't easy to believe in Jesus. I know it's easy for you, but not for me. What I believe and what you believe are very different things. To me he is the son of man.
************

For thirty years 'way back when' all the folks there abouts believed the same thing. Imagine growing up with the kid down the block who one day comes by and says "By the way I'm god" I understand the thinking of the temple folks. But, He did say he came to fulfill the prophecy. Perhaps he did as he said. I believe he did notwithstanding his humanism..
I guess at the end of the day me and the athiest could both be right. I spend eternity in heaven and they spend eternity as plastic. They evolve from man to petrol to be refined into plastic.. A plastic spoon or something.
 
Originally posted by: jjsole
Originally posted by: Vic
jjsole, taxes != charity That, IMO, is one of the biggest scams that the left has pulled off. Taxes are involuntary. Charity is voluntary. Taxes are collected at gunpoint. Charity is given with an open and caring heart. To you the difference may not matter as long as a hungry family gets fed, but to me it means everything. What was once a system of love and generosity has now become extortion and inter-class bribery. As for the religious "right", I couldn't agree more. They are hypocrites. Modern-day Pharisees. But, IMO, the Left is no less hypocritical than the Right.
Click to expand...

The object is to get it done and do what it takes to make it happen. If taxes are necessary for programs, then give to ceasar what is ceasars and pay for the programs. It should be of the highest priorities and there's nothing unbiblical about taxes paying for such programs, and its not a scam devised by democrats. To see the disparity among so many people and whine about taxes paying to help them out is gutless and selfish to the core imo. There is so much waste in government with the priorities for spending billions so out of whack with the needs of our society that better/new programs could easily be paid for. Its a disgrace at best, scam in the least to say it can't be afforded or we shouldn't have to pay for it.

Neither is there anything in the new testament that says all of the money that you get through capitalism and its exploitive practices are immune from supporting the needs of society, and that this responsibility to all of us should be only a choice and not an obligation. If there is, please show me where.

Its a biblical responsibility and its especially indignantly ignored by the conservative republican agenda.

What do they focus on instead? Anti-gay, anti-abortion initiatives because it doesn't cost them anything to rant about others, and thats cowardly imo. One of the most pitiful examples I see is that conservatives are often willing to go to all extremes to show support the life of the unborn, but won't do crap for the ones who are already born and might be facing the burden of life's hardships. What a farce.

Left is the democrats, these ungodly liberal sinners, profiting from the republicans lack of compassion for the have-nots, being the only ones pushing for these initiatives to provide for the basic needs of people. I don't find that a scam but find it an agenda that would much more align with Jesus' concerns and principles.
Click to expand...
Yup, when Jesus said render unto Caesar he meant do yur civic duty and then take care of the poor. It's sort of double dipping.

 
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Moonster,
I just mean it ain't easy to believe in Jesus. I know it's easy for you, but not for me. What I believe and what you believe are very different things. To me he is the son of man.
************

For thirty years 'way back when' all the folks there abouts believed the same thing. Imagine growing up with the kid down the block who one day comes by and says "By the way I'm god" I understand the thinking of the temple folks. But, He did say he came to fulfill the prophecy. Perhaps he did as he said. I believe he did notwithstanding his humanism..
I guess at the end of the day me and the athiest could both be right. I spend eternity in heaven and they spend eternity as plastic. They evolve from man to petrol to be refined into plastic.. A plastic spoon or something.
Click to expand...
The thing is that you can't order faith. You have it or you don't I don't, not like you. I can't make myself believe. My faith has always been in science. I believe that God has a scientific explanation. It makes Him different if essentially the same. God is man fully man. We just don't see it very often.

 
Faith towards anything involves risk imo. While I agree that having faith itself is not a choice but a reality to oneself, accepting the risk that would support having faith is a choice.
I believe there are more people who don't have faith, that weren't willing to accept the associated risk, than people who don't have faith but did accept that risk, but were ultimately disappointed in what they found or didn't find.

Having been on both sides of the fence, I believe its unfortunate that many people will choose to not accept the initial risk to facilitate the existence of faith.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Moonster,
I just mean it ain't easy to believe in Jesus. I know it's easy for you, but not for me. What I believe and what you believe are very different things. To me he is the son of man.
************

For thirty years 'way back when' all the folks there abouts believed the same thing. Imagine growing up with the kid down the block who one day comes by and says "By the way, I'm god" I understand the thinking of the temple folks. But, He did say he came to fulfill the prophecy. Perhaps he did as he said. I believe he did notwithstanding his humanism..
I guess at the end of the day me and the athiest could both be right. I spend eternity in heaven and they spend eternity as plastic. They evolve from man to petrol to be refined into plastic.. A plastic spoon or something.
Click to expand...
The thing is that you can't order faith. You have it or you don't I don't, not like you. I can't make myself believe. My faith has always been in science. I believe that God has a scientific explanation. It makes Him different if essentially the same. God is man fully man. We just don't see it very often.
Click to expand...

Well... that could be. Who am I to conclude that my way is the only way. Your belief may be true as well or instead of. I am comfortable in mine as you are in yours. Perhaps there is an equal need for Mechanics as there are for Accountants. Although, I doubt there are many accountants in heaven.

You bring an interesting thought to the table. "you can't order faith" I wonder if faith fills the soul? Never allowing the soul to have an unfilled place. The soul may not be capable of having a void. It is filled with something even if it is belief of no soul. We must or are compelled to belive or have faith in something even if it is nothing. I listened to a person once say I believe there is no god. Then he said I don't believe there is a god. Are those two statements different? I don't think so. In either case one believes in something. They have faith in something. They contain a soul.. the mind! The intangible.

 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I will gladly combat evil with evil for the sake of those kids. What about you. You say I know the answer, but I want to hear which of those two worlds you would choose. Both are evil, but one's got no hungry kids. You look for God after you got something to eat.
Click to expand...
One has no hungry kids? BS. You mean it has no hungry bureaucrats.
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yup, when Jesus said render unto Caesar he meant do yur civic duty and then take care of the poor. It's sort of double dipping.
Click to expand...
Wow, Moonie, the propaganda is strong with you. Actually, it had nothing to do with civic duty. The Jews at the time were double-taxed because of the Roman occupation. 15% of their incomes went to the local Jewish government (which handled the "civic" duty) and another 15% went to their Roman conquerors as tribute. When Jesus said to render under Caeser, He was talking about the tribute tax. No hungry children ever got fed with that tax, let me assure you. It paid for soldiers and went straight into Augustus' treasuries.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I will gladly combat evil with evil for the sake of those kids. What about you. You say I know the answer, but I want to hear which of those two worlds you would choose. Both are evil, but one's got no hungry kids. You look for God after you got something to eat.
Click to expand...
One has no hungry kids? BS. You mean it has no hungry bureaucrats.
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yup, when Jesus said render unto Caesar he meant do yur civic duty and then take care of the poor. It's sort of double dipping.
Click to expand...
Wow, Moonie, the propaganda is strong with you. Actually, it had nothing to do with civic duty. The Jews at the time were double-taxed because of the Roman occupation. 15% of their incomes went to the local Jewish government (which handled the "civic" duty) and another 15% went to their Roman conquerors as tribute. When Jesus said to render under Caeser, He was talking about the tribute tax. No hungry children ever got fed with that tax, let me assure you. It paid for soldiers and went straight into Augustus' treasuries.
Click to expand...

Now now Vic, while the propaganda may be strong with me, the avoidance of the question is strong with you. 😀 I was joking around, but the tribute built aqueducts and plumbing in Rome. Kids there had a better life and probably a longer life. They were also the ones who accepted Christianity, not those who didn't want to pay their tax.

But lets get back to the question. OK, so the bureaucrats are nice and fat in a state that extracts more than what the people want to give. That was not the issue. My question was what is the better condition, a state that extracts wealth and uses it to take care of the poor or a state that doesn't and is full of starvation? Which is better, a state where people gripe about their taxes or a state where people don't eat? I understand you want to weasel out of answering and I realize it's hypothetical, but not so much so as to be out of the realm of possibility. I think the point is that people can draw relative distinctions between various forms of evil. Ultimately extended we can ask if the sane have an obligation to care for the sick who will not care for themselves. What is the difference between somebody who dies not want to give and somebody who has because of what others have given. You can't rob Peter to pay Paul, but can you tax a Peter who has gotten rich from many Pauls to feed some of the less fortunate ones? If Peter is blind to his duty does it mean we all have to be? Let Peter take his wealth and live alone in the desert.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
My question was what is the better condition, a state that extracts wealth and uses it to take care of the poor or a state that doesn't and is full of starvation? Which is better, a state where people gripe about their taxes or a state where people don't eat?
Click to expand...

I'll answer that. Whereas it's unfortunate that people have to go without, the latter is better. That is the fundamental problem I have with the Democratic platform (and I'm speaking as a poor person who can't afford a house at 29). I don't understand why if someone earns X amount of money, they are required to give it to someone who has less. I'm not an uncompassionate person, I honestly hope the person with less can do better for himself. But not at the expense of someone else who that money belongs to.

I think that's what people forget. Regardless if they can survive without it, the money is theirs. It belongs to those who earn it. Regardless of how they got it (earned, inheireted, whatever), they have an inherent right to what belongs to them. Do I think Bill Gates should share his wealth with those less fortunate? Yes, I hope he would choose to do so. But the thought of the government requiring it is absurd.
 
Rob----Ah, so a world in which children starve is better than one in which taxes are extracted from the unwilling. I see. Well you are entitled to that opinion probably as long as you remain out of those children's reach.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Rob----Ah, so a world in which children starve is better than one in which taxes are extracted from the unwilling. I see. Well you are entitled to that opinion probably as long as you remain out of those children's reach.
Click to expand...

😀
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Rob----Ah, so a world in which children starve is better than one in which taxes are extracted from the unwilling. I see. Well you are entitled to that opinion probably as long as you remain out of those children's reach.
Click to expand...

😀
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Rob----Ah, so a world in which children starve is better than one in which taxes are extracted from the unwilling. I see. Well you are entitled to that opinion probably as long as you remain out of those children's reach.
Click to expand...

Children are starving in your city right now. Are you doing everything you can to help them? You should donate your money to them, and keep just enough to survive. How can you stand to have luxuries like internet and cable, knowing that money can buy a kid food for a month? Or do you just like to have idealistic political views, hoping that will solve the problem?
 
Besides, it's not an all-or-nothing situation. Democrats always use the logic that if someone wins, someone else has to lose. There are millions of other solutions to the starving children problem other than just taking from those who have more.

Taxing the rich is the easy solution, and that's why liberals like it. How about people keep their own money, and we work REAL hard to come up with a better solution?
 
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
I wonder when the 'G-d' freaks will join in to state that when Jesus came everything changed to whatever they want it to be.
Click to expand...


ooooh, there's a shocker! more personal attacks from the pagans!!!
You obviously have no idea what my beliefs are nor have you read any of my posts regarding this matter (adherence to Biblical teachings). I have stated many times in the past that I believe the Bible is the literal word of G-d and have spoken out against the apostate Luciferian churches of today. Yeshua said in Matthew 5:17-18 (this is not the first time I have quoted this passage by any means) "17 Think not that I have come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Yeshua followed the Mosaic Law/ten commandments and commanded his followers to do the same.
Please explain how this demonstrates "my belief" that when Yeshua came "everything changed to whatever I want it to mean." Quite the opposite.
Feel free to insert foot in mouth now. Now the question is: will you? Your humanistic attitude and foolish pride dictate that you won't but the outcome remains to be seen.
Click to expand...

The Bible is the literal word of god? So any error in it is a flaw made by god?
 
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