Release the Krak... err FISA Memo!

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HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,302
32,811
136
Ackmed said:
With so many anti law enforcement people here, and people who condemn law enforcement without a trial or waiting for all facts to be in don't want to do the same here. Every time there is a cop shooting, hard take down, corruption thread, etc the same people claim that law enforcement is guilty. Yet now the same people don't act in the same manner, and are dismissing it. It's easy to understand why, they don't really care about the truth. It's ok when its Trump or the Repubs when there is at least some credible evidence that law enforcement fucked them over. They deserve it. Dismissing all allegations is easy when you hate who its going against. Yet someone allegedly gets their car searched illegally and the cops are 100% wrong every time around here. Flip flopping is neat.

Personally I'd like to see the Dem memo. But more importantly, I'd like to see all of these underlying documents that make up each memo, and the rest of the memos to come. Some of the allegations are pretty substantial, and if even some are true that American people should know. Wanting the truth isn't an attack of the FBI and law enforcement. If that's the case, every time law enforcement gets investigated on abuse its an attack on them. But as with the above example, thats not the case both ways. Pretty obvious why. I wish I could say I was surprised by some people'e hypocrisy here on these subjects, but I am really not.
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Name one piece of "evidence" that LE fucked over Republicans.
 
kage69

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,315
47,512
136
The House That J Edgar Built has historically been a bastion of left-leaning partisan bias, duhhhh.
 
Amused

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,347
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HomerJS said:
Name one piece of "evidence" that LE fucked over Republicans.
Click to expand...

Bingo. There is absolutely none.

But then, just like conspiratards, the cult followers of right-wing media believe a claim is evidence.
 
zinfamous

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,855
31,345
146
Ackmed said:
With so many anti law enforcement people here, and people who condemn law enforcement without a trial or waiting for all facts to be in don't want to do the same here. Every time there is a cop shooting, hard take down, corruption thread, etc the same people claim that law enforcement is guilty. Yet now the same people don't act in the same manner, and are dismissing it. It's easy to understand why, they don't really care about the truth. It's ok when its Trump or the Repubs when there is at least some credible evidence that law enforcement fucked them over. They deserve it. Dismissing all allegations is easy when you hate who its going against. Yet someone allegedly gets their car searched illegally and the cops are 100% wrong every time around here. Flip flopping is neat.

Personally I'd like to see the Dem memo. But more importantly, I'd like to see all of these underlying documents that make up each memo, and the rest of the memos to come. Some of the allegations are pretty substantial, and if even some are true that American people should know. Wanting the truth isn't an attack of the FBI and law enforcement. If that's the case, every time law enforcement gets investigated on abuse its an attack on them. But as with the above example, thats not the case both ways. Pretty obvious why. I wish I could say I was surprised by some people'e hypocrisy here on these subjects, but I am really not.
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Honestly: where is the proof that Law Enforcement "fucked over Trump"? Where is it? Not liking a guy that you are investigating is somehow a thing that suddenly can't be tolerated from the FBI? Seriously, please explain to me why this became such a fashionable argument now? Don't bother, I already know the answer to that one.

Still, I encourage you to ponder whatever reasoning you have grabbed to convince yourself that this is some issue of bias and delegitimizes the investigation against Trump and his campaign, that more or less began prior to when Trump was even running for president. Just think about it for a second: You're an FBI guy, investigating a person for money laundering, contact with international intelligence agents and known criminals. This guy had already violated federal law by entering into deals with known criminals in Abu Dhabi, to invest in a hotel despite his partners being on an international watch list. ....so you're an agent investigating a shady criminal, with shady business ties and even shadier foreign contacts. Suddenly, that piece of filth wants to be president. ...so you suddenly have to abandon your actual duty as a law enforcement officer because now the criminal is absolved of all attention because...."political bias?"

please, gtf out of here with that playground bullshit. It's mind-blowing that conservatives have stooped this fucking low to defend their criminal piece of shit. What new "atrocity" are you sock puppets going to invent tomorrow?

not one of you seemed to give a fucking shit when every single Republican asswhipe on those Bengazi "hearings" tweeted endlessly about their distaste for Hillary, all the while pretending to put up a "fair and reasonable investigation of the truth!"

Seriously, just think for a fucking second. You probably don't even know what your name is anymore, these criminals have you so thoroughly gaslighted.
 
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J

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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kage69 said:
The House That J Edgar Built has historically been a bastion of left-leaning partisan bias, duhhhh.
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Deep state, man, deep state. They're all Commie gun grabbers. Just look at the way the FBI ruthlessly suppressed the poor Bundy militia.
 
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Amused

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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240let.jpg
 
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I

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,026
2,879
136
Did Trump obstruct justice (again) with his comments in support of Nunes and words clearly indicating that he believes the memo is directly material to the investigation (so much so that it vindicates him)?

I think if the Democrat memo reaches his desk, he'll refuse to release it and publicly say that it's a smear campaign, etc. I don't think he'd take the reasonable doubt approach of trying to protect sources and methods. Then I hope to God the House votes to release it and sends him on another tirade.

Perhaps Trump can work his way to removal from office based on charges only using evidence in full public view while allowing the Mueller probe to continue full scale.
 
MomentsofSanity

MomentsofSanity

Lifer
Jan 25, 2011
17,076
9,554
146
interchange said:
Did Trump obstruct justice (again) with his comments in support of Nunes and words clearly indicating that he believes the memo is directly material to the investigation (so much so that it vindicates him)?

I think if the Democrat memo reaches his desk, he'll refuse to release it and publicly say that it's a smear campaign, etc. I don't think he'd take the reasonable doubt approach of trying to protect sources and methods. Then I hope to God the House votes to release it and sends him on another tirade.

Perhaps Trump can work his way to removal from office based on charges only using evidence in full public view while allowing the Mueller probe to continue full scale.
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He won’t have a choice. The house knows they would have to vote to override him and release it and he knows that as well. There’s a better chance of redaction but even then I don’t think they would.
 
A

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,499
560
126
fskimospy said:
This is some pretty incredible projection.

There is no credible evidence that anyone was fucked over in relation to this memo. If anything we need to open an investigation into why Republicans are attempting to subvert our intelligence agencies in order to protect the president from a criminal investigation into him and his associates.
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Nothing that is alleged seems to give you pause? Text between lovers in the positions that they were in that have a clear bias. Editing Comeys decision from wording that is illegal to not, despite Comey stating nobody knew his decision. A wife of a very prominent FBI agent getting money for her campaign. The DNC paying for the Dossier that was used in part to get a warrant, all the while not being made sure to be true. Then hiding who paid for it. But to you buying, then hiding the fact that the DNC paid for the Dossier doesn't mean a thing. There are many more issues that should be addressed.

It is not discrediting or trying to subvert the investigation on Trump when you are trying to make sure its all on the up and up. There could be some subverting as well as, dismissing it all at an attempt to subvert is silly and shortsighted. The texts alone are pretty alarming. My point last post which was missed by most it seems, is that there have been many posts here where cops have been alleged to illegally search a person, car, home, etc. Public court was held right here, "bad apple" was used to mock the cops, they were deemed guilty without any "credible evidence" (to use your words) simply because there was an accusation. An eye witness. Yet when reversed and allegations are there with some information that at the very least needs to be proved or disproved, all the sudden the same people claim its an attack on the FBI and others. That nothing should be done, that everything is a-ok. That cops would never do wrong. Thats called hypocrisy.

I don't care who is guilty, they need to be found out and dealt with. Trump colluded? Get him. Allegations against Dems true? Get them. Repubs doing illegal shit to hide things, get them too. Get them all who did wrong. The fact is, if the script was flipped and everything was on the other foot, the Dems would be calling for treason. The Repubs would be fighting just as hard as the Dems to stop the investigation. I personally believe dirty shit has happened on both sides, stuff that we would all be amazed at and sickened by. If you look at every single allegation with the information we know is true, and claim that there is nothing there at all against the Dems, then I feel sorry for you honestly. Because you would be too far over the edge to reason with. We've had our differences but I've thought you a reasonable person. Which is why I responded to you, and not others. I will not respond to people who do nothing but insult and used bigoted terms. Yes making fun of mentally retarded people does make them a bigot.
 
UberNeuman

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
Ackmed said:
Nothing that is alleged seems to give you pause? Text between lovers in the positions that they were in that have a clear bias. Editing Comeys decision from wording that is illegal to not, despite Comey stating nobody knew his decision. A wife of a very prominent FBI agent getting money for her campaign. The DNC paying for the Dossier that was used in part to get a warrant, all the while not being made sure to be true. Then hiding who paid for it. But to you buying, then hiding the fact that the DNC paid for the Dossier doesn't mean a thing. There are many more issues that should be addressed.

It is not discrediting or trying to subvert the investigation on Trump when you are trying to make sure its all on the up and up. There could be some subverting as well as, dismissing it all at an attempt to subvert is silly and shortsighted. The texts alone are pretty alarming. My point last post which was missed by most it seems, is that there have been many posts here where cops have been alleged to illegally search a person, car, home, etc. Public court was held right here, "bad apple" was used to mock the cops, they were deemed guilty without any "credible evidence" (to use your words) simply because there was an accusation. An eye witness. Yet when reversed and allegations are there with some information that at the very least needs to be proved or disproved, all the sudden the same people claim its an attack on the FBI and others. That nothing should be done, that everything is a-ok. That cops would never do wrong. Thats called hypocrisy.

I don't care who is guilty, they need to be found out and dealt with. Trump colluded? Get him. Allegations against Dems true? Get them. Repubs doing illegal shit to hide things, get them too. Get them all who did wrong. The fact is, if the script was flipped and everything was on the other foot, the Dems would be calling for treason. The Repubs would be fighting just as hard as the Dems to stop the investigation. I personally believe dirty shit has happened on both sides, stuff that we would all be amazed at and sickened by. If you look at every single allegation with the information we know is true, and claim that there is nothing there at all against the Dems, then I feel sorry for you honestly. Because you would be too far over the edge to reason with. We've had our differences but I've thought you a reasonable person. Which is why I responded to you, and not others. I will not respond to people who do nothing but insult and used bigoted terms. Yes making fun of mentally retarded people does make them a bigot.
Click to expand...

Sad songs they say so much.

Remember how okay you were with the hacks into DNC emails? Don’t play the “I’m about the law” card.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,935
55,288
136
Ackmed said:
Nothing that is alleged seems to give you pause? Text between lovers in the positions that they were in that have a clear bias. Editing Comeys decision from wording that is illegal to not, despite Comey stating nobody knew his decision. A wife of a very prominent FBI agent getting money for her campaign. The DNC paying for the Dossier that was used in part to get a warrant, all the while not being made sure to be true. Then hiding who paid for it. But to you buying, then hiding the fact that the DNC paid for the Dossier doesn't mean a thing. There are many more issues that should be addressed.
Click to expand...

Let's look at these one at a time. What I've found is that conservative media is panicking over the Russia investigation and has thrown an enormous amount of shit in the air in an attempt to create a perception of impropriety where none exists.

1) Texts between lovers indicating bias. No pause whatsoever. The idea that FBI agents need to feel neutral personally towards the subjects of their investigation is not a professional standard that the FBI or any law enforcement agency adheres to and it's one that would be functionally impossible when it comes to investigating the president. As an example of why this isn't a thing, how do you think FBI agents feel personally towards the mob bosses they investigate? Probably highly negatively, right? Does that mean those mob investigations were tainted or invalid? Of course not. The question here is if they engaged in any professional misconduct in actions involving the investigation. From all available evidence they did not, therefore it's a non-issue.

2) This makes a great deal of sense. It would be incoherent to state that an action was illegal in one place and decline to prosecute in another. As there's no evidence that anyone in the FBI was corruptly pressured not to prosecute, this seems pretty standard.

3) An FBI agent independently notifying the bureau of his wife's plans to run for office and transparently and scrupulously following all FBI conflict of interest protocols and then someone who only became involved in the Russia investigation after being appointed by Trump himself seems like an odd choice for anti-Trump corruption. If anything, wouldn't McCabe owing his current position to Trump be a greater conflict of interest than his wife getting campaign (not personal) donations from Clinton affiliated people a number of years ago?

4) The DNC paying for a dossier is not interesting to me, no. The FBI learning about that dossier and using it in part to get a warrant isn't very interesting either. Sources and whistle blowers are nearly always biased in some way. I mean you think when local cops get a tip about a drug deal that the person tipping them off isn't often biased? It's the credibility of the source that matters and how well the information can be corroborated. The fact that it was paid for by political opponents is a materially important fact though, I agree. That's why the FBI included it in the warrant application.

5) The idea that the FBI concealed who paid for the dossier is a lie. They made it explicit that it was paid for by Trump's political opponents. Exactly which opponent is 1) irrelevant and 2) avoided due to minimization procedures. (this is why sources are referred to as 'person A' as well, etc.)

If you think there are more issues I'm glad to discuss them but everything you brought up was either not relevant, normal procedure, or a lie by conservatives. And by the way this has also been lost in the discussion but it's super important. The Trump campaign claims Carter Page had nothing to do with their campaign. In addition, the FISA warrant wasn't sought until after Page had left whatever limited/non-existent role he had in it. Why on earth would the FBI be hatching a plot against Trump by wiretapping someone who wasn't part of his campaign and who he had nothing to do with? It defies logic.

It is not discrediting or trying to subvert the investigation on Trump when you are trying to make sure its all on the up and up. There could be some subverting as well as, dismissing it all at an attempt to subvert is silly and shortsighted. The texts alone are pretty alarming.
Click to expand...

I'm dismissing it as an attempt to subvert as the person responsible for the memo, Devin Nunes, was not only busted previously falsely attempting to smear the federal intelligence community about the Russia investigation, he's also admitted that his central accusation here, that the FBI didn't notify FISC of the dossier's political origins, was a lie. There is no way he would not have known that was a lie absent a total and reckless disregard for the truth, which is just as bad.

My point last post which was missed by most it seems, is that there have been many posts here where cops have been alleged to illegally search a person, car, home, etc. Public court was held right here, "bad apple" was used to mock the cops, they were deemed guilty without any "credible evidence" (to use your words) simply because there was an accusation. An eye witness. Yet when reversed and allegations are there with some information that at the very least needs to be proved or disproved, all the sudden the same people claim its an attack on the FBI and others. That nothing should be done, that everything is a-ok. That cops would never do wrong. Thats called hypocrisy.

I don't care who is guilty, they need to be found out and dealt with. Trump colluded? Get him. Allegations against Dems true? Get them. Repubs doing illegal shit to hide things, get them too. Get them all who did wrong. The fact is, if the script was flipped and everything was on the other foot, the Dems would be calling for treason. The Repubs would be fighting just as hard as the Dems to stop the investigation. I personally believe dirty shit has happened on both sides, stuff that we would all be amazed at and sickened by.

If you look at every single allegation with the information we know is true, and claim that there is nothing there at all against the Dems, then I feel sorry for you honestly. Because you would be too far over the edge to reason with. We've had our differences but I've thought you a reasonable person. Which is why I responded to you, and not others. I will not respond to people who do nothing but insult and used bigoted terms. Yes making fun of mentally retarded people does make them a bigot.
Click to expand...

I appreciate that, and I appreciate your reasonable response! I think I am a reasonable person and I have yet to see any credible evidence of corrupt action by federal law enforcement. I agree that there is a significant anti-law enforcement bent here, probably partially out of frustration from a number of high-profile cases where the police got away with what is in my opinion unambiguously criminal behavior. I also agree that if the situation were reversed Democrats would be far more willing to go after the FBI. That being said, Hillary Clinton was investigated by the FBI for several years and Democrats NEVER engaged in the sort of misconduct that Nunes has engaged in by publishing this memo. They never even came close. This episode has definitely revealed corruption and rot in Washington but it's in Congress, not the FBI.[/quote]
 
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HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,302
32,811
136
Ackmed said:
Nothing that is alleged seems to give you pause? Text between lovers in the positions that they were in that have a clear bias. Editing Comeys decision from wording that is illegal to not, despite Comey stating nobody knew his decision. A wife of a very prominent FBI agent getting money for her campaign. The DNC paying for the Dossier that was used in part to get a warrant, all the while not being made sure to be true. Then hiding who paid for it. But to you buying, then hiding the fact that the DNC paid for the Dossier doesn't mean a thing. There are many more issues that should be addressed.

.
Click to expand...
1. Text between lovers joking about secret society. Lovers also said bad things about Hillary as well. No proof it effected their jobs.
2. Editing decision is bias. You mean guy who wrote memo to reopen Hillary email case??
3. Wife getting money from Dems for campaign. Trump gave money to Hillary. Doesn't stop you from sucking his dick.
4. Dossier is raw intelligence that required corroboration which did happen. G. Pop was main reason for warrant.
5. Data used in dossier was paid for by the Free Beacon.
6. Source of dossier money was not hidden. It came out today source is in application. It was included in a footnote.

I think the other issues are made up in your head.
 
jackstar7

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Learning that Trump is a piece of shit and having that lead you to believe Trump is a piece of shit doesn't invalidate the value of the education.
 
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