Reggie Bush wants more money then the #1 pick Mario Williams

[mugs]

In May, shortly after Bush was drafted, the Saints had already set a franchise record for season-ticket sales, having topped 55,000 at that time. That's extraordinary, especially considering the condition of the hurricane-ravaged city.

55,000 SETS of season tickets? Or 55,000 tickets / 8 home games = ~7000 season ticket holders?

It reads like the first way, but that sounds extraordinarily high... about the capacity of a football stadium.

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: mugs

In May, shortly after Bush was drafted, the Saints had already set a franchise record for season-ticket sales, having topped 55,000 at that time. That's extraordinary, especially considering the condition of the hurricane-ravaged city.

55,000 SETS of season tickets? Or 55,000 tickets / 8 home games = ~7000 season ticket holders?

It reads like the first way, but that sounds extraordinarily high... about the capacity of a football stadium.

considering the team i'd say the 2nd. who knows how they come to that number.

actually, the stadium seats ~70k. so i guess there could be 55,000 season ticket holders.

 

[scootermaster]

I love when people bitch about "Greedy athletes" or whatever.

Get off the internet and stop bitching. You want to make your point heard? Stop going to games. Stop buying tickets. Stop wearing the jerseys. Stop drikning budweiser. Cancel ESPN.

Don't want to do that? Then shut the eff up.

The point is, he's in a free market economy, albeit a somewhat structured one. He's going to maximize his value, and you'd do the same thing so complaining about it doesn't make any sense. The point is, Reggie Bush's skills are worth hundreds of millions to Tom Benson (who I believe is the owner of the Saints). Mr. Benson knows that. Mr. Bush knows that. Mr. Bush's agent knows that. So Reggie's going to try and get as much of that as he can.

And he has every right to do so. And you know what? He will. He'll sign for a package between 5-10% more than Williams got, and between 10-20% more than Alex Smith got last year.

A couple of other things:
1. He's not going to hold out for the entire season. Never happen. Benson would never let it happen. The fallout from season ticket holders/fans would be too crazy. Also, Reggie's not that rich to where he'd give up the $25 or so million in guaranteed money.
2. I'm not sure if this is the argument that guy was trying to make or not, but the Bengals ARE probably the worst franchise in the NFL. In the same sense that the Mavs are the best franchise in the NBA, even though the Heat won the title. The Bengals are well known throughout the league for years of lowballing veterns, not extending people's contracts, drafting rookies based on salary demands and not talent, and even worse things like promising extensions to "loyal" vets and then leaving them out to dry when they get injured, or not providing injury insurance to unsigned draft picks they want in minicamps. The mentality is changing a little over there, but it's still worse than most teams. The Cardinals are (or perhaps were) another bad offender. Anyone who seriously follows football knows this. Contrast that with a team like the Steelers that shows loyalty to its players, will extend them when needed (See Hines Ward) and made an effort to get top-notch facilities. For fans "best" and "worst" means records. For players (and people within the league) it means very different things, like quality of facilities, attitude/aptitude of ownership, location, fan support and things like that. So when people in the league talk about "the worst" franchises, you can certainly include the Bengals in that group. Just look at their offseason police woes.

Again, most people don't really bother to follow sports hard enough to know any of this. They just see people running around with a ball, and then take a look at their own pathetic lives and get pissed they're not making that much money. So I don't hold it against you....

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: scootermaster
I love when people bitch about "Greedy athletes" or whatever.

Get off the internet and stop bitching. You want to make your point heard? Stop going to games. Stop buying tickets. Stop wearing the jerseys. Stop drikning budweiser. Cancel ESPN.

Don't want to do that? Then shut the eff up.

The point is, he's in a free market economy, albeit a somewhat structured one. He's going to maximize his value, and you'd do the same thing so complaining about it doesn't make any sense. The point is, Reggie Bush's skills are worth hundreds of millions to Tom Benson (who I believe is the owner of the Saints). Mr. Benson knows that. Mr. Bush knows that. Mr. Bush's agent knows that. So Reggie's going to try and get as much of that as he can.

And he has every right to do so. And you know what? He will. He'll sign for a package between 5-10% more than Williams got, and between 10-20% more than Alex Smith got last year.

A couple of other things:
1. He's not going to hold out for the entire season. Never happen. Benson would never let it happen. The fallout from season ticket holders/fans would be too crazy. Also, Reggie's not that rich to where he'd give up the $25 or so million in guaranteed money.
2. I'm not sure if this is the argument that guy was trying to make or not, but the Bengals ARE probably the worst franchise in the NFL. In the same sense that the Mavs are the best franchise in the NBA, even though the Heat won the title. The Bengals are well known throughout the league for years of lowballing veterns, not extending people's contracts, drafting rookies based on salary demands and not talent, and even worse things like promising extensions to "loyal" vets and then leaving them out to dry when they get injured, or not providing injury insurance to unsigned draft picks they want in minicamps. The mentality is changing a little over there, but it's still worse than most teams. The Cardinals are (or perhaps were) another bad offender. Anyone who seriously follows football knows this. Contrast that with a team like the Steelers that shows loyalty to its players, will extend them when needed (See Hines Ward) and made an effort to get top-notch facilities.

Again, most people don't really bother to follow sports hard enough to know any of this. They just see people running around with a ball, and then take a look at their own pathetic lives and get pissed they're not making that much money. So I don't hold it against you....

you keep typing and yet nobody is listening...

i don't watch games, i don't go to games. i certainly don't wear jerseys. i don't even drink budweiser. why i need to get off the internet i'm not sure. espn is part of my cable package, not that i really watch it for much more than college football or poker anyway.

he's greedy, period. just like every other athelete. you can sit around saying he isn't but it still comes down he's bitching about getting paid 10 million instead of 20 (insert whatever numbers there) to play a game. if he can pull it off fine, whatever. someone is going to drop that money on him. but when atheletes start whining like spoiled little brats about how they are going to sit out or whatever else if they don't get their way it gets real old real quick.

 

[scootermaster]

If he's greedy than anyone who participates in a free-market economy (or ccapitalist society) is greedy.

You can't look past your fuzzy math. Sure, $10 million is a lot. And yes, $20 million is even more. And hey! What can you do with $20 mil that you can't do with $10? Ergo, he's greedy, right?

Um, wrong.

The numbers don't matter. He knows what he's worth, and he has every right to pursue channels in order to get that. If you don't like it, well, you could always try a socialist society and see how that works for you.

 

[Oscar1613]

Originally posted by: MrDingleDangle

Originally posted by: Sphexi
I don't care what the Bengels had for a record, IMO they will always be one of the worst teams in NFL history. I'm talking overall experience, not just scores.

Uhm, I am a Bengals fan and I know they were THE WORST for a long time, but they also made the Superbowl twice, there are a lot of teams who have never made it that far

you mean like the saints?


😛

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: scootermaster
If he's greedy than anyone who participates in a free-market economy (or ccapitalist society) is greedy.

You can't look past your fuzzy math. Sure, $10 million is a lot. And yes, $20 million is even more. And hey! What can you do with $20 mil that you can't do with $10? Ergo, he's greedy, right?

Um, wrong.

The numbers don't matter. He knows what he's worth, and he has every right to pursue channels in order to get that. If you don't like it, well, you could always try a socialist society and see how that works for you.

*sigh* i don't know what it is that make people like you tick. atheletes have gotten spoiled beyond belief in this country and it's so out of control that people like you are willing to stick up for them. scary stuff. my logic isn't 20 is more than 10 blah blah blah. my logic is that you should realized you are blessed that someone is willing to pay you 10 million to play a game, and then shut your damn mouth and play it. he knows what his agent who is making 10% is whispering in his ear that he's worth, and the wheel goes round and round. i really do hope the NFL goes bankrupt one day after it's broken it's own back, because i think that's the only way the system could ever get repaired. the idea that now college kids want to get paid just makes my head hurt to even think about, but hell, our education level is dropping like a rock, let's really destroy what little value a college education has left. whatever.

i'm sure you're one of these guys sticking up for atheletes that did steriods because it wasn't against league rules. guess what, it's against the law. these guys shouldn't be worried about sitting out a few games, they should be worried about going to jail. and yet somehow that never seems to happen. hell you can kill a guy and somehow get off without a scratch.

 

[tfcmasta97]

Originally posted by: fisher
imho rookies should make the league minimum the first year. you don't go into any job making what the boss makes (or more in some cases), why should this be any different? it would definitely help teams stop wasting money on guys who can't hack it in the nfl. after your first year all bets are off. if you sandbag, well don't expect to be seeing any of that cash.

edit: in fact i'm going to email the nfl right now and see what we can do about making this happen.

well thats about the worst logic you could ever have. in fact, im sure there are plenty of people who know someone that's overpaid, and is a horribly ****** boss. But saying that a heavily scouted, well known talent should be paid less some assholes who was that last boss's son...

 

[scootermaster]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: scootermaster
If he's greedy than anyone who participates in a free-market economy (or ccapitalist society) is greedy.

You can't look past your fuzzy math. Sure, $10 million is a lot. And yes, $20 million is even more. And hey! What can you do with $20 mil that you can't do with $10? Ergo, he's greedy, right?

Um, wrong.

The numbers don't matter. He knows what he's worth, and he has every right to pursue channels in order to get that. If you don't like it, well, you could always try a socialist society and see how that works for you.

*sigh* i don't know what it is that make people like you tick. atheletes have gotten spoiled beyond belief in this country and it's so out of control that people like you are willing to stick up for them. scary stuff. my logic isn't 20 is more than 10 blah blah blah. my logic is that you should realized you are blessed that someone is willing to pay you 10 million to play a game, and then shut your damn mouth and play it. he knows what his agent who is making 10% is whispering in his ear that he's worth, and the wheel goes round and round. i really do hope the NFL goes bankrupt one day after it's broken it's own back, because i think that's the only way the system could ever get repaired. the idea that now college kids want to get paid just makes my head hurt to even think about, but hell, our education level is dropping like a rock, let's really destroy what little value a college education has left. whatever.

i'm sure you're one of these guys sticking up for atheletes that did steriods because it wasn't against league rules. guess what, it's against the law. these guys shouldn't be worried about sitting out a few games, they should be worried about going to jail. and yet somehow that never seems to happen. hell you can kill a guy and somehow get off without a scratch.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but I agree with you on the steroids thing. I think there should be mandatory testing for all illegal substances (speed, pot, 'roids, etc) in sports. Hey, you can't get a low-level engineering job for 90k a year without a whiz test, why should some sports team entrust $50 mil to you? So we're on the same page there.

As for the salary thing, I'm not arguing what's right and what's wrong. What I'm saying is something that most casual fans don't understand....and that's this: The owners aren't stupid.

Let me repeat that: The owners aren't stupid.

I don't have the exact number, but I wouldn't be surprised if the NFL makes over a billion dollars a year in profit. You know of many coporations that profitable? The league itself, with the teams, stadium leases and TV contract is probably worth in the tens of billions. It got like that by people making smart business decisions.

So my point is that giving Reggie Bush $20 million instead of $10 is a smart business decision. You may think it's "wrong" or "stupid" or "completely unnecessary" but that doesn't change the fact that it's good business. Think about it...I don't know what you do, but if you're good at it, your boss will do his best to keep you happy, up until a point where your value to the company is exceeded by the cost of keeping you there (or your value over someone cheaper -- and perhaps less competend -- decreases to a certain point). That's what the biz world is about. And that's what pro football (a business, to be sure) is about.

So just because he carries a football and doesn't work in a high-rise office doesn't mean he should be any more "thankfull" or "just happy to be here" than anyone else.

 

[scootermaster]

Didn't think anyone had a good counter-argument.

That's cuz there isn't one!

Now back to watching USC suck this year!


(Go 'Canes!)

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: MrDingleDangle
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-bush072106&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I know saints fans were psyched since he seemed to want to go to N.O. and help out, but this doesnt look good

What a j@ck@ss. Not to mention that Williams was way overpaid compared to last years #1.

 

[BrokenVisage]

He already thinks he's the next great RB without ever being hit by a full-grown man, or chased down by a finely-tuned defensive back, or plowed-over by a blitzing safety... I can't wait for him to be exposed.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: jjsole

Not to mention that Williams was way overpaid compared to last years #1.

How?

 

[SampSon]

I hope Reggie Bush completely blows his knees out and never plays football again.
Or mabey he turns out to be one of the worst performing and most over-hyped RB's in history.
Then we can all watch him spend all of his money and end up in a ditch smoking crack.

 

[ballmode]

he has to earn his pay

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: SampSon
I hope Reggie Bush completely blows his knees out and never plays football again.
Or mabey he turns out to be one of the worst performing and most over-hyped RB's in history.
Then we can all watch him spend all of his money and end up in a ditch smoking crack.

:beer:

 

[scootermaster]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: SampSon
I hope Reggie Bush completely blows his knees out and never plays football again.
Or mabey he turns out to be one of the worst performing and most over-hyped RB's in history.
Then we can all watch him spend all of his money and end up in a ditch smoking crack.

:beer:

And why are you wishing such horrible things upon someone you've never met?

Because he's talented? Because he has the gall to ask for more money than the initial offer from his company? Because he's engaging in a salary negotiation (just like ANYONE who has any sort of reasonable-paying job would do?)

Cuz I'm drawing a blank here...

(And I'm going to ignore the semi-racist overtones about the ditch and crack thing. I'm sure you'd say that you'd say the same thing about an overhyped white Quarterback -- Eli Manning anyone? -- but no one believes you).

 

[meltdown75]

Wow, shades of Eric Lindros being drafted by the Nords and refusing to play. Career-long curse if you ask me.

The big drag about this one is that Bush pretty much guaranteed he would play, and made it seem like playing in the NFL was his lifelong dream.

Somewhere along the line you have to wonder if the agents have too much influence on the athletes, or if the players can even chart their own course at all these days.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: fisher
imho rookies should make the league minimum the first year. you don't go into any job making what the boss makes (or more in some cases), why should this be any different? it would definitely help teams stop wasting money on guys who can't hack it in the nfl. after your first year all bets are off. if you sandbag, well don't expect to be seeing any of that cash.

edit: in fact i'm going to email the nfl right now and see what we can do about making this happen.

i like your idea. NFL defense backs are going to plant his ass hard. I cant stand college snots who are great in college and demand 100 billion dollars to sign. bitches you arent worth it, 90% of you do nothing but warm the bench while you watch people drafted in the 500th round put up bigger numbers and play with more heart then you could ever imagine.

 

[scootermaster]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
Wow, shades of Eric Lindros being drafted by the Nords and refusing to play. Career-long curse if you ask me.

The big drag about this one is that Bush pretty much guaranteed he would play, and made it seem like playing in the NFL was his lifelong dream.

Somewhere along the line you have to wonder if the agents have too much influence on the athletes, or if the players can even chart their own course at all these days.

That's what people don't understand...it's all posturing.

I mean, it wasn't with Lindros. And it wasn't with Elway either. But I think we can agree it all worked out with him, can't we?

But in 99.999999999% cases, it's all talk, trying to get the fans to put pressure on ownership to get the deal done. I mean, you guys are smart enough to see through this, right?

When was the last time a high-profile NFL pick sat out the entire season. Anyone? Give me one name. I'm waiting...still waiting. C'mon. Just one name!!! (And not that any of YOU would have come up with it, but Rocket Ismael doesn't count, seeing as he signed for even more money to play in Canada).

Didn't think so.

So what makes you think Bush will sit out? Cuz he "says" he will? I don't know what's dumber, people thinking he'll actually sit the entire season, or people getting pissed at him and hoping he fails because he wants more money.

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: scootermaster

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: scootermaster
If he's greedy than anyone who participates in a free-market economy (or ccapitalist society) is greedy.

You can't look past your fuzzy math. Sure, $10 million is a lot. And yes, $20 million is even more. And hey! What can you do with $20 mil that you can't do with $10? Ergo, he's greedy, right?

Um, wrong.

The numbers don't matter. He knows what he's worth, and he has every right to pursue channels in order to get that. If you don't like it, well, you could always try a socialist society and see how that works for you.

*sigh* i don't know what it is that make people like you tick. atheletes have gotten spoiled beyond belief in this country and it's so out of control that people like you are willing to stick up for them. scary stuff. my logic isn't 20 is more than 10 blah blah blah. my logic is that you should realized you are blessed that someone is willing to pay you 10 million to play a game, and then shut your damn mouth and play it. he knows what his agent who is making 10% is whispering in his ear that he's worth, and the wheel goes round and round. i really do hope the NFL goes bankrupt one day after it's broken it's own back, because i think that's the only way the system could ever get repaired. the idea that now college kids want to get paid just makes my head hurt to even think about, but hell, our education level is dropping like a rock, let's really destroy what little value a college education has left. whatever.

i'm sure you're one of these guys sticking up for atheletes that did steriods because it wasn't against league rules. guess what, it's against the law. these guys shouldn't be worried about sitting out a few games, they should be worried about going to jail. and yet somehow that never seems to happen. hell you can kill a guy and somehow get off without a scratch.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but I agree with you on the steroids thing. I think there should be mandatory testing for all illegal substances (speed, pot, 'roids, etc) in sports. Hey, you can't get a low-level engineering job for 90k a year without a whiz test, why should some sports team entrust $50 mil to you? So we're on the same page there.

As for the salary thing, I'm not arguing what's right and what's wrong. What I'm saying is something that most casual fans don't understand....and that's this: The owners aren't stupid.

Let me repeat that: The owners aren't stupid.

I don't have the exact number, but I wouldn't be surprised if the NFL makes over a billion dollars a year in profit. You know of many coporations that profitable? The league itself, with the teams, stadium leases and TV contract is probably worth in the tens of billions. It got like that by people making smart business decisions.

So my point is that giving Reggie Bush $20 million instead of $10 is a smart business decision. You may think it's "wrong" or "stupid" or "completely unnecessary" but that doesn't change the fact that it's good business. Think about it...I don't know what you do, but if you're good at it, your boss will do his best to keep you happy, up until a point where your value to the company is exceeded by the cost of keeping you there (or your value over someone cheaper -- and perhaps less competend -- decreases to a certain point). That's what the biz world is about. And that's what pro football (a business, to be sure) is about.

So just because he carries a football and doesn't work in a high-rise office doesn't mean he should be any more "thankfull" or "just happy to be here" than anyone else.

i know the owners aren't stupid. i realize that. i just get sick of the whining and apparently needed to vent. i'm a full time dad so i don't make jack anymore other than hugs and kisses from my daughters.

oh and how did USC end up on top again pre-season?

edit: i still think all rookies should be paid the league minimum the first year and earn their insane salaries. it stops all this childish garbage with holding out and whatnot, and it keeps teams from dumping a ton of money into the next ryan leaf.

 

[scootermaster]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: scootermaster

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: scootermaster
If he's greedy than anyone who participates in a free-market economy (or ccapitalist society) is greedy.

You can't look past your fuzzy math. Sure, $10 million is a lot. And yes, $20 million is even more. And hey! What can you do with $20 mil that you can't do with $10? Ergo, he's greedy, right?

Um, wrong.

The numbers don't matter. He knows what he's worth, and he has every right to pursue channels in order to get that. If you don't like it, well, you could always try a socialist society and see how that works for you.

*sigh* i don't know what it is that make people like you tick. atheletes have gotten spoiled beyond belief in this country and it's so out of control that people like you are willing to stick up for them. scary stuff. my logic isn't 20 is more than 10 blah blah blah. my logic is that you should realized you are blessed that someone is willing to pay you 10 million to play a game, and then shut your damn mouth and play it. he knows what his agent who is making 10% is whispering in his ear that he's worth, and the wheel goes round and round. i really do hope the NFL goes bankrupt one day after it's broken it's own back, because i think that's the only way the system could ever get repaired. the idea that now college kids want to get paid just makes my head hurt to even think about, but hell, our education level is dropping like a rock, let's really destroy what little value a college education has left. whatever.

i'm sure you're one of these guys sticking up for atheletes that did steriods because it wasn't against league rules. guess what, it's against the law. these guys shouldn't be worried about sitting out a few games, they should be worried about going to jail. and yet somehow that never seems to happen. hell you can kill a guy and somehow get off without a scratch.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but I agree with you on the steroids thing. I think there should be mandatory testing for all illegal substances (speed, pot, 'roids, etc) in sports. Hey, you can't get a low-level engineering job for 90k a year without a whiz test, why should some sports team entrust $50 mil to you? So we're on the same page there.

As for the salary thing, I'm not arguing what's right and what's wrong. What I'm saying is something that most casual fans don't understand....and that's this: The owners aren't stupid.

Let me repeat that: The owners aren't stupid.

I don't have the exact number, but I wouldn't be surprised if the NFL makes over a billion dollars a year in profit. You know of many coporations that profitable? The league itself, with the teams, stadium leases and TV contract is probably worth in the tens of billions. It got like that by people making smart business decisions.

So my point is that giving Reggie Bush $20 million instead of $10 is a smart business decision. You may think it's "wrong" or "stupid" or "completely unnecessary" but that doesn't change the fact that it's good business. Think about it...I don't know what you do, but if you're good at it, your boss will do his best to keep you happy, up until a point where your value to the company is exceeded by the cost of keeping you there (or your value over someone cheaper -- and perhaps less competend -- decreases to a certain point). That's what the biz world is about. And that's what pro football (a business, to be sure) is about.

So just because he carries a football and doesn't work in a high-rise office doesn't mean he should be any more "thankfull" or "just happy to be here" than anyone else.

i know the owners aren't stupid. i realize that. i just get sick of the whining and apparently needed to vent. i'm a full time dad so i don't make jack anymore other than hugs and kisses from my daughters.

oh and how did USC end up on top again pre-season?

edit: i still think all rookies should be paid the league minimum the first year and earn their insane salaries. it stops all this childish garbage with holding out and whatnot, and it keeps teams from dumping a ton of money into the next ryan leaf.

The funny thing is, the vets would go for that in a heartbeat. Look what happened in the NBA with the rookeie salary scale and "slotting". The NFL went a little closer in that direction with their CBA a couple of iterations ago, but nothing like the NBA (and certainly nothing like MLB).

But the reality is that this is the system we have. Rookie first round pics expect (and will get) between a 5% and 10% raise of the person picked in the same slot as them last year. It's just the way it works. Now, sometimes the terms will be different (opt-out years, player options, back-loaded money, etc) but it's all pretty much the same.

The bigger issue is the lack of guaranteed contracts. The reason why you have hold-outs, contract disputes, $80 million dollar extensions that are only worth $2 million, etc etc because NFL contracts aren't guaranteed. Now, I'm not saying they should be, but I'm just explaining why things are the way they are. A team can sign a guy to a $495043543543 million dollar contract, and if he breaks his leg and can't play, they can release him on the spot and owe him nothing, assuming they've paid all of his signing bonus. That's a little shady. That's why players will hold out, or ask for huge signing bonuses, etc, because that's the only money they're ever guaranteed.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: scootermaster

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: scootermaster
If he's greedy than anyone who participates in a free-market economy (or ccapitalist society) is greedy.

You can't look past your fuzzy math. Sure, $10 million is a lot. And yes, $20 million is even more. And hey! What can you do with $20 mil that you can't do with $10? Ergo, he's greedy, right?

Um, wrong.

The numbers don't matter. He knows what he's worth, and he has every right to pursue channels in order to get that. If you don't like it, well, you could always try a socialist society and see how that works for you.

*sigh* i don't know what it is that make people like you tick. atheletes have gotten spoiled beyond belief in this country and it's so out of control that people like you are willing to stick up for them. scary stuff. my logic isn't 20 is more than 10 blah blah blah. my logic is that you should realized you are blessed that someone is willing to pay you 10 million to play a game, and then shut your damn mouth and play it. he knows what his agent who is making 10% is whispering in his ear that he's worth, and the wheel goes round and round. i really do hope the NFL goes bankrupt one day after it's broken it's own back, because i think that's the only way the system could ever get repaired. the idea that now college kids want to get paid just makes my head hurt to even think about, but hell, our education level is dropping like a rock, let's really destroy what little value a college education has left. whatever.

i'm sure you're one of these guys sticking up for atheletes that did steriods because it wasn't against league rules. guess what, it's against the law. these guys shouldn't be worried about sitting out a few games, they should be worried about going to jail. and yet somehow that never seems to happen. hell you can kill a guy and somehow get off without a scratch.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but I agree with you on the steroids thing. I think there should be mandatory testing for all illegal substances (speed, pot, 'roids, etc) in sports. Hey, you can't get a low-level engineering job for 90k a year without a whiz test, why should some sports team entrust $50 mil to you? So we're on the same page there.

As for the salary thing, I'm not arguing what's right and what's wrong. What I'm saying is something that most casual fans don't understand....and that's this: The owners aren't stupid.

Let me repeat that: The owners aren't stupid.

I don't have the exact number, but I wouldn't be surprised if the NFL makes over a billion dollars a year in profit. You know of many coporations that profitable? The league itself, with the teams, stadium leases and TV contract is probably worth in the tens of billions. It got like that by people making smart business decisions.

So my point is that giving Reggie Bush $20 million instead of $10 is a smart business decision. You may think it's "wrong" or "stupid" or "completely unnecessary" but that doesn't change the fact that it's good business. Think about it...I don't know what you do, but if you're good at it, your boss will do his best to keep you happy, up until a point where your value to the company is exceeded by the cost of keeping you there (or your value over someone cheaper -- and perhaps less competend -- decreases to a certain point). That's what the biz world is about. And that's what pro football (a business, to be sure) is about.

So just because he carries a football and doesn't work in a high-rise office doesn't mean he should be any more "thankfull" or "just happy to be here" than anyone else.

i know the owners aren't stupid. i realize that. i just get sick of the whining and apparently needed to vent. i'm a full time dad so i don't make jack anymore other than hugs and kisses from my daughters.

oh and how did USC end up on top again pre-season?

edit: i still think all rookies should be paid the league minimum the first year and earn their insane salaries. it stops all this childish garbage with holding out and whatnot, and it keeps teams from dumping a ton of money into the next ryan leaf.

How are their salaries so insane? The NFL makes billions each year and the main reason for that is the players. Why should a bunch of rich executives be allowed to pocket even more of that money when the players are primarily responsible for making the league so marketable?

Think about it. Reggie Bush, as a running back, will probably not last beyond 34 in the NFL. That gives him about 13 years for his career. A career which is going to beat the living crap out of his body, screw his knees up, and potentially will cause long-term health problems for him. And, what? You think he's greedy? No way man, he's smart. He knows he has 3 or 4 big contracts to make his money and then he's done. What happens if he suffers a career-ending injury three months from now? He'd be a fool to pass up on more money now when his stock is so high.

So is he greedy? I don't think so. You gotta get the money when you can, because who knows what tomorrow, or next year, will look like.

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: scootermaster

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: scootermaster

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: scootermaster
If he's greedy than anyone who participates in a free-market economy (or ccapitalist society) is greedy.

You can't look past your fuzzy math. Sure, $10 million is a lot. And yes, $20 million is even more. And hey! What can you do with $20 mil that you can't do with $10? Ergo, he's greedy, right?

Um, wrong.

The numbers don't matter. He knows what he's worth, and he has every right to pursue channels in order to get that. If you don't like it, well, you could always try a socialist society and see how that works for you.

*sigh* i don't know what it is that make people like you tick. atheletes have gotten spoiled beyond belief in this country and it's so out of control that people like you are willing to stick up for them. scary stuff. my logic isn't 20 is more than 10 blah blah blah. my logic is that you should realized you are blessed that someone is willing to pay you 10 million to play a game, and then shut your damn mouth and play it. he knows what his agent who is making 10% is whispering in his ear that he's worth, and the wheel goes round and round. i really do hope the NFL goes bankrupt one day after it's broken it's own back, because i think that's the only way the system could ever get repaired. the idea that now college kids want to get paid just makes my head hurt to even think about, but hell, our education level is dropping like a rock, let's really destroy what little value a college education has left. whatever.

i'm sure you're one of these guys sticking up for atheletes that did steriods because it wasn't against league rules. guess what, it's against the law. these guys shouldn't be worried about sitting out a few games, they should be worried about going to jail. and yet somehow that never seems to happen. hell you can kill a guy and somehow get off without a scratch.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but I agree with you on the steroids thing. I think there should be mandatory testing for all illegal substances (speed, pot, 'roids, etc) in sports. Hey, you can't get a low-level engineering job for 90k a year without a whiz test, why should some sports team entrust $50 mil to you? So we're on the same page there.

As for the salary thing, I'm not arguing what's right and what's wrong. What I'm saying is something that most casual fans don't understand....and that's this: The owners aren't stupid.

Let me repeat that: The owners aren't stupid.

I don't have the exact number, but I wouldn't be surprised if the NFL makes over a billion dollars a year in profit. You know of many coporations that profitable? The league itself, with the teams, stadium leases and TV contract is probably worth in the tens of billions. It got like that by people making smart business decisions.

So my point is that giving Reggie Bush $20 million instead of $10 is a smart business decision. You may think it's "wrong" or "stupid" or "completely unnecessary" but that doesn't change the fact that it's good business. Think about it...I don't know what you do, but if you're good at it, your boss will do his best to keep you happy, up until a point where your value to the company is exceeded by the cost of keeping you there (or your value over someone cheaper -- and perhaps less competend -- decreases to a certain point). That's what the biz world is about. And that's what pro football (a business, to be sure) is about.

So just because he carries a football and doesn't work in a high-rise office doesn't mean he should be any more "thankfull" or "just happy to be here" than anyone else.

i know the owners aren't stupid. i realize that. i just get sick of the whining and apparently needed to vent. i'm a full time dad so i don't make jack anymore other than hugs and kisses from my daughters.

oh and how did USC end up on top again pre-season?

edit: i still think all rookies should be paid the league minimum the first year and earn their insane salaries. it stops all this childish garbage with holding out and whatnot, and it keeps teams from dumping a ton of money into the next ryan leaf.

The funny thing is, the vets would go for that in a heartbeat. Look what happened in the NBA with the rookeie salary scale and "slotting". The NFL went a little closer in that direction with their CBA a couple of iterations ago, but nothing like the NBA (and certainly nothing like MLB).

But the reality is that this is the system we have. Rookie first round pics expect (and will get) between a 5% and 10% raise of the person picked in the same slot as them last year. It's just the way it works. Now, sometimes the terms will be different (opt-out years, player options, back-loaded money, etc) but it's all pretty much the same.

The bigger issue is the lack of guaranteed contracts. The reason why you have hold-outs, contract disputes, $80 million dollar extensions that are only worth $2 million, etc etc because NFL contracts aren't guaranteed. Now, I'm not saying they should be, but I'm just explaining why things are the way they are. A team can sign a guy to a $495043543543 million dollar contract, and if he breaks his leg and can't play, they can release him on the spot and owe him nothing, assuming they've paid all of his signing bonus. That's a little shady. That's why players will hold out, or ask for huge signing bonuses, etc, because that's the only money they're ever guaranteed.

i won't pretend that i know as much as you about contracts (and i thought i was pretty well versed but now i don't feel so smart), but i wonder if the rookies would be willing to take a pay cut for a guaranteed contract? seems like a happy medium doesn't? i guess my plan (if you can call it that) would weed out the guys who are going to be too soft or spoiled or whatever else to play at the nfl level. imho if you sign a huge contract and get hurt right off the bat you don't really deserve huge money anyway, and less so if you continue to get hurt. i don't know that these kids really understand that the nfl is a whole different level because their agents are constantly reminding them "what they are worth".

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: scootermaster

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: scootermaster
If he's greedy than anyone who participates in a free-market economy (or ccapitalist society) is greedy.

You can't look past your fuzzy math. Sure, $10 million is a lot. And yes, $20 million is even more. And hey! What can you do with $20 mil that you can't do with $10? Ergo, he's greedy, right?

Um, wrong.

The numbers don't matter. He knows what he's worth, and he has every right to pursue channels in order to get that. If you don't like it, well, you could always try a socialist society and see how that works for you.

*sigh* i don't know what it is that make people like you tick. atheletes have gotten spoiled beyond belief in this country and it's so out of control that people like you are willing to stick up for them. scary stuff. my logic isn't 20 is more than 10 blah blah blah. my logic is that you should realized you are blessed that someone is willing to pay you 10 million to play a game, and then shut your damn mouth and play it. he knows what his agent who is making 10% is whispering in his ear that he's worth, and the wheel goes round and round. i really do hope the NFL goes bankrupt one day after it's broken it's own back, because i think that's the only way the system could ever get repaired. the idea that now college kids want to get paid just makes my head hurt to even think about, but hell, our education level is dropping like a rock, let's really destroy what little value a college education has left. whatever.

i'm sure you're one of these guys sticking up for atheletes that did steriods because it wasn't against league rules. guess what, it's against the law. these guys shouldn't be worried about sitting out a few games, they should be worried about going to jail. and yet somehow that never seems to happen. hell you can kill a guy and somehow get off without a scratch.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but I agree with you on the steroids thing. I think there should be mandatory testing for all illegal substances (speed, pot, 'roids, etc) in sports. Hey, you can't get a low-level engineering job for 90k a year without a whiz test, why should some sports team entrust $50 mil to you? So we're on the same page there.

As for the salary thing, I'm not arguing what's right and what's wrong. What I'm saying is something that most casual fans don't understand....and that's this: The owners aren't stupid.

Let me repeat that: The owners aren't stupid.

I don't have the exact number, but I wouldn't be surprised if the NFL makes over a billion dollars a year in profit. You know of many coporations that profitable? The league itself, with the teams, stadium leases and TV contract is probably worth in the tens of billions. It got like that by people making smart business decisions.

So my point is that giving Reggie Bush $20 million instead of $10 is a smart business decision. You may think it's "wrong" or "stupid" or "completely unnecessary" but that doesn't change the fact that it's good business. Think about it...I don't know what you do, but if you're good at it, your boss will do his best to keep you happy, up until a point where your value to the company is exceeded by the cost of keeping you there (or your value over someone cheaper -- and perhaps less competend -- decreases to a certain point). That's what the biz world is about. And that's what pro football (a business, to be sure) is about.

So just because he carries a football and doesn't work in a high-rise office doesn't mean he should be any more "thankfull" or "just happy to be here" than anyone else.

i know the owners aren't stupid. i realize that. i just get sick of the whining and apparently needed to vent. i'm a full time dad so i don't make jack anymore other than hugs and kisses from my daughters.

oh and how did USC end up on top again pre-season?

edit: i still think all rookies should be paid the league minimum the first year and earn their insane salaries. it stops all this childish garbage with holding out and whatnot, and it keeps teams from dumping a ton of money into the next ryan leaf.

How are their salaries so insane? The NFL makes billions each year and the main reason for that is the players. Why should a bunch of rich executives be allowed to pocket even more of that money when the players are primarily responsible for making the league so marketable?

Think about it. Reggie Bush, as a running back, will probably not last beyond 34 in the NFL. That gives him about 13 years for his career. A career which is going to beat the living crap out of his body, screw his knees up, and potentially will cause long-term health problems for him. And, what? You think he's greedy? No way man, he's smart. He knows he has 3 or 4 big contracts to make his money and then he's done. What happens if he suffers a career-ending injury three months from now? He'd be a fool to pass up on more money now when his stock is so high.

So is he greedy? I don't think so. You gotta get the money when you can, because who knows what tomorrow, or next year, will look like.

well he could have gotten an education while he was in school so if he can't cut it in the nfl he could get a real job, but why would he do something silly like that? i guess since i didn't last past high school in football and don't have starstruck eyes when it comes to sports i have a different view.

also, you are making insane money if you're getting paid to sit on the bench because your body can't take the punishment of the nfl but you held out for "big money". however, now that i know it isn't guaranteed money it doesn't seem quite so ridiculous (well, other than guys getting paid millions of dollars to play a game).