Reducing the poor- FORCE birth control on welfare recipiants

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: BAMAVOO

Yeah, where in the basic human rights list does it ensure free money to irresponsible people?

How are they irresonsible? Maybe they got laid off, fired, or their company went bankrupt. Not everyone chooses to be poor. Not everyone remains poor their entire life. IF we are to do anything, help them find a job and give them encouragement.

uh if you're laid off, fired, etc and you have a child, that is irresponsible.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: MattCo

Originally posted by: BAMAVOO

Yeah, where in the basic human rights list does it ensure free money to irresponsible people?

How are they irresonsible? Maybe they got laid off, fired, or their company went bankrupt. Not everyone chooses to be poor. Not everyone remains poor their entire life. IF we are to do anything, help them find a job and give them encouragement. I know some choose not to do anything and for those there is no help. Just don't be so quick to judge people that are down on their luck. We have seen it happen to even our own folks here on AT. Think before you speak.

Let me clarify, I have no problem with assistance to people who need it for period of time. The issue lies with people who abuse indefinitely it instead of using it to "get back in the game". The eternal moochers are the ones that I consider irresponsible because they see it as a right not to work if they dont want to.

Do you think a responsible person would want to have a child if they knew that they couldn't support it? You hear (daily) of people having more children to increase their welfare checks. Irresponsible.

-MC

The problem with the "assistance" we offer people is that it is not enough to really help lift people from poverty and the fact that jumping thru the hoops required to obtain it is daunting to people who are already overwhelmed and overstressed.

 

[Red Dawn]

You do understand that this would be seen as a form of discrimination by Blacks and Hispanics who have a significant percentage of their numbers receiving welfare.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: BAMAVOO

Yeah, where in the basic human rights list does it ensure free money to irresponsible people?

How are they irresonsible? Maybe they got laid off, fired, or their company went bankrupt. Not everyone chooses to be poor. Not everyone remains poor their entire life. IF we are to do anything, help them find a job and give them encouragement.

uh if you're laid off, fired, etc and you have a child, that is irresponsible.

Good thing Abortions are legal huh!

 

[gopunk]

The problem with the "assistance" we offer people is that it is not enough to really help lift people from poverty and the fact that jumping thru the hoops required to obtain it is daunting to people who are already overwhelmed and overstressed.

if they're already overwhelmed and overstressed, i'm sure they would appreciate a free way of ensuring they don't add to their troubles

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: BAMAVOO

Yeah, where in the basic human rights list does it ensure free money to irresponsible people?

How are they irresonsible? Maybe they got laid off, fired, or their company went bankrupt. Not everyone chooses to be poor. Not everyone remains poor their entire life. IF we are to do anything, help them find a job and give them encouragement.

uh if you're laid off, fired, etc and you have a child, that is irresponsible.

Good thing Abortions are legal huh!

yup

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: gopunk

The problem with the "assistance" we offer people is that it is not enough to really help lift people from poverty and the fact that jumping thru the hoops required to obtain it is daunting to people who are already overwhelmed and overstressed.

if they're already overwhelmed and overstressed, i'm sure they would appreciate a free way of ensuring they don't add to their troubles

Yeah Big Brother looking out for their "Welfare"

 

[Maetryx]

I remember there was one private program where an organization would give $xxx to drug addicted women who agreed to have their tubes tied.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: gopunk

The problem with the "assistance" we offer people is that it is not enough to really help lift people from poverty and the fact that jumping thru the hoops required to obtain it is daunting to people who are already overwhelmed and overstressed.

if they're already overwhelmed and overstressed, i'm sure they would appreciate a free way of ensuring they don't add to their troubles

elitiest geeks type frequently delay reproduction into well into their late 30's early 40's,as result they often produce children with serious enough birth defects that they require the expenditure of taxpayor dollars to care for them from cradle to grave... and these are people who are supposedly well educated enough to know better,perhaps we should begin by forced birth control on these folks to set an example?

 

[mugs]

Forced birth control... bad idea. No increased benefits for having a child while already on welfare... good idea. That would prevent a lot of welfare abuse and give the mother an option - be responsible and not have a child, or be financially responsible for it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: gopunk

The problem with the "assistance" we offer people is that it is not enough to really help lift people from poverty and the fact that jumping thru the hoops required to obtain it is daunting to people who are already overwhelmed and overstressed.

if they're already overwhelmed and overstressed, i'm sure they would appreciate a free way of ensuring they don't add to their troubles

elitiest geeks type frequently delay reproduction into well into their late 30's early 40's,as result they often produce children with serious enough birth defects that they require the expenditure of taxpayor dollars to care for them from cradle to grave... and these are people who are supposedly well educated enough to know better,perhaps we should begin by forced birth control on these folks to set an example?

Why stop there, lets go after women that smoke too!

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii
Forced birth control... bad idea. No increased benefits for having a child while already on welfare... good idea. That would prevent a lot of welfare abuse and give the mother an option - be responsible and not have a child, or be financially responsible for it.

Most states already deny any sort of increase in benefits for additional children born to a woman on welfare.

I got an idea why not really actually provide people with the means to make a better life for themselves instead of humilating and scapegoating them?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii
Forced birth control... bad idea. No increased benefits for having a child while already on welfare... good idea. That would prevent a lot of welfare abuse and give the mother an option - be responsible and not have a child, or be financially responsible for it.

Most states already deny any sort of increase in benefits for additional children born to a woman on welfare.

I got an idea why not really actually provide people with the means to make a better life for themselves instead of humilating and scapegoating them?

Like Workfare instead of Welfare?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: gopunk

The problem with the "assistance" we offer people is that it is not enough to really help lift people from poverty and the fact that jumping thru the hoops required to obtain it is daunting to people who are already overwhelmed and overstressed.

if they're already overwhelmed and overstressed, i'm sure they would appreciate a free way of ensuring they don't add to their troubles

elitiest geeks type frequently delay reproduction into well into their late 30's early 40's,as result they often produce children with serious enough birth defects that they require the expenditure of taxpayor dollars to care for them from cradle to grave... and these are people who are supposedly well educated enough to know better,perhaps we should begin by forced birth control on these folks to set an example?

i'd like to hear your definition of "often", because i have a strong suspicion the reality is that we're talking about an extremely small percentage of births to that demographic.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii
Forced birth control... bad idea. No increased benefits for having a child while already on welfare... good idea. That would prevent a lot of welfare abuse and give the mother an option - be responsible and not have a child, or be financially responsible for it.

Most states already deny any sort of increase in benefits for additional children born to a woman on welfare.

I got an idea why not really actually provide people with the means to make a better life for themselves instead of humilating and scapegoating them?

Like Workfare instead of Welfare?

like enough assistance to actually provide a safe place to live,healthcare and childcare assistance.

 

[gopunk]

Like Workfare instead of Welfare?

like enough assistance to actually provide a safe place to live,healthcare and childcare assistance.

sounds like workfare would cover that, and have the additional bonus of automatically giving them a job

 

[Red Dawn]

Hey if they are going to get paid they might as well be productive

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
The best form of birth control for these people is to do away with welfare.

/basks in awe of your superior intellect.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Like Workfare instead of Welfare?

like enough assistance to actually provide a safe place to live,healthcare and childcare assistance.

sounds like workfare would cover that, and have the additional bonus of automatically giving them a job

Work of the the type that will lead to a productive life is fine,work for the sheer purpose of demeaning and humilating people in order to satisfy some sort of sadist moralistic streak is not.I work for a large health care organization,a lot of good people are really hurting out there right now.I favor a system that provides easily accesible assistance to those in need that gradually becomes more restrictive over time to prevent abuse of the taxpayer.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii
Forced birth control... bad idea. No increased benefits for having a child while already on welfare... good idea. That would prevent a lot of welfare abuse and give the mother an option - be responsible and not have a child, or be financially responsible for it.

Most states already deny any sort of increase in benefits for additional children born to a woman on welfare.

I got an idea why not really actually provide people with the means to make a better life for themselves instead of humilating and scapegoating them?

I'm not sure if New Jersey is one of those states, but it sure doesn't seem like it in my experience. I'm all for welfare - there are people who abuse it, but there are people who are genuinely down on their luck and need a little help to get through tough times. My parents own a convenience store across from a government housing project, so I've had plenty of experience with people on welfare. The amount of effort a lot of these people put towards getting out of the system is, well, non-existent. And really, what incentive do they have when some of them get more in benefits than I make by working (not counting the subsidized housing that allows them to live in $600+ a month houses for as little as $50 a month)? My parents have tried to employ many of them, but the ones they have given jobs to have no work ethic. There are success stories - one girl I know of who lives there is a manager at Old Navy and will be moving out soon. She's very excited about that.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii
Forced birth control... bad idea. No increased benefits for having a child while already on welfare... good idea. That would prevent a lot of welfare abuse and give the mother an option - be responsible and not have a child, or be financially responsible for it.

Most states already deny any sort of increase in benefits for additional children born to a woman on welfare.

I got an idea why not really actually provide people with the means to make a better life for themselves instead of humilating and scapegoating them?

I'm not sure if New Jersey is one of those states, but it sure doesn't seem like it in my experience. I'm all for welfare - there are people who abuse it, but there are people who are genuinely down on their luck and need a little help to get through tough times. My parents own a convenience store across from a government housing project, so I've had plenty of experience with people on welfare. The amount of effort a lot of these people put towards getting out of the system is, well, non-existent. And really, what incentive do they have when some of them get more in benefits than I make by working (not counting the subsidized housing that allows them to live in $600+ a month houses for as little as $50 a month)? My parents have tried to employ many of them, but the ones they have given jobs to have no work ethic. There are success stories - one girl I know of who lives there is a manager at Old Navy and will be moving out soon. She's very excited about that.

Everybody knows somebody from the projects.I get to see/hear about the people who aren't lucky enough to land one of those apartments.Many of them suffer with chronic mental illness or other serious health problems,many are babies/children,many are elderly or darn near unemployable due to their advancing age,that doesn't mean they aren't human.

Our city has a van that patrols the streets on icy winter nights,it looks for homeless folks who froze to death.That imho is wrong in a society that touts itself as such a compassionate,global helper and provider of aide and assistance.

 

[Ns1]

i agree. however i don't think it'll ever happen in this society.

people shouldn't raise children if they can't devote the time and money necessary

 

[gopunk]

Work of the the type that will lead to a productive life is fine,work for the sheer purpose of demeaning and humilating people in order to satisfy some sort of sadist moralistic streak is not.

i would argue that these two are not mutually exclusive... i mean sure, some sick people might get some pleasure out of being able to assign jobs or something (hopefully these people are in the minority), but that doesn't mean those jobs don't lead to a productive life. it's not like we'll be asking them to dance naked through the streets or something.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Work of the the type that will lead to a productive life is fine,work for the sheer purpose of demeaning and humilating people in order to satisfy some sort of sadist moralistic streak is not.

i would argue that these two are not mutually exclusive... i mean sure, some sick people might get some pleasure out of being able to assign jobs or something (hopefully these people are in the minority), but that doesn't mean those jobs don't lead to a productive life. it's not like we'll be asking them to dance naked through the streets or something.

The poor will always be among us,the mark of an enlightened society is the compassion with which we treat them.I firmly believe that.We spend billions of our money helping people in other nations,surely we can care for our own people?

 

[ReiAyanami]

because they don't deserve it.

atleast that's the way sensationalist liberal media depicts it, next on Dateline