Red Sox Pitcher Curt Schilling retires

[SP33Demon]

Text

Well was reading some debates on the issue of whether the should be in the HOF or not and he definitely should IMO. He has a good ERA+ (127), sparkling postseason records (best ERA in baseball history, best win/loss % in baseball history, 3 championships - including a memorable Game 7 against the rival Yankees in ALCS), and came in 2nd 3 times for Cy Young Award behind Big Unit and J.Santana. Another impressive thing to note: especially since he pitched in the steroid era and he openly called players out on it (so he was most likely clean):

On the day Curt Schilling turned 30 -- in 1996 -- his career record in the majors was 52 wins and 52 losses. Nobody would have given you a plugged nickel for his chances of someday getting his own plaque in Cooperstown.
And since turning 30? 164 wins, 94 losses.

That's pretty amazing, it's like he defied age and got better over time. His most IMPRESSIVE stat IMO, even significantly beating out shoe-in HOFer Mariano Rivera is Strikeout to Walk ratio, where he places 2nd all time (the first guy played from 1874-1884 and shouldn't even count LOL):

1. Tommy Bond 4.440 R
2. Curt Schilling 4.380 R
3. Pedro Martinez 4.140 R
4. Ben Sheets 3.850 R
5. Mariano Rivera 3.830 R

Last, Baseball-reference.com has 4 sort of litmus tests that factor stats into 4 tests of whether they should be in the HoF statistically and Schilling makes 3 of 4:
Black Ink: Pitching - 42 (34th) (Average HOFer >? 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 205 (34th) (Average HOFer >? 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 46.0 (48th) (Average HOFer >? 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 171.0 (33rd) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Overall Rank in parentheses.

He should be a first ballot HOFer.

 

[KeithTalent]

Isn't his sock in the hall already?

KT

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Isn't his sock in the hall already?

KT

Yes, but many writers say he doesn't have enough wins to get in the Hall (only 216). I think he'll definitely get in though, but we'll see.

 

[slayer202]

who would take the time to make a fake bloody sock? pathetic

 

[zinfamous]

yes.

well, there are far worse people in than him. I know it's an invalid argument, but it's kind of silly how it seems that early qualifications for HoF were "played before 1901" as so many of the inductees have no other reason to be in...

 

[winnar111]

Absolute first ballot HOF.

I don't know if he's ever won a Cy Young, but I don't hold that against him. Manny's never won an MVP.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: winnar111
Absolute first ballot HOF.

I don't know if he's ever won a Cy Young, but I don't hold that against him. Manny's never won an MVP.

true...now back to P&N with you!

 

[finite automaton]

He's not a Red Sox. He's a Phillie.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: finite automaton
He's not a Red Sox. He's a Phillie.

Maybe, but his most memorable moments occured in this decade after he left Philadelphia.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: finite automaton
He's not a Red Sox. He's a Phillie.

Maybe, but his most memorable moments occured in this decade after he left Philadelphia.

Yes, whenever i think Schilling, i think of the bloody sock. I didn't even know he played for phillie before arizona.

 

[Poulsonator]

Originally posted by: winnar111
Absolute first ballot HOF.

I don't know if he's ever won a Cy Young, but I don't hold that against him. Manny's never won an MVP.

He never won a Cy Young. He's probably the best pitcher to never win one.

Without question Schilling deserves to be in the HoF. His stats are pretty damn amazing, but it's his post-season success that sets him apart from the mere mortals:

11-2, 2.23 ERA, K/BB 120/25, WHIP 0.97

An amazing line, and as a Red Sox fan, it was nothing short of brilliant watching him in the 2004 and 2007 post-seasons.

His regular-season stats:

Wins--216 Tied for 80th all-time
ERA-3.46 Would be 11th among current active players if not retired
Win%-.596. Tied for 119th all-time with Herb Pennock, Ed Lopat and Warren Spahn
WHIP-1.1374 45th all-time
BB/9- 1.962 79th all-time
Strikeouts- 3116 15Th all-time
Adjusted ERA+- 127 Tied 43rd all-time

Bert Blyleven is the only person with over 3,000 K's who is not in the HoF. That's a serious problem, by the way...Bly deserves the Hall.

 

[sash1]

i may be bias because i'm a huge sox fan, but i think he deserves to be in the HOF. great pitcher, elite post-season pitcher

 

[Glitchny]

Originally posted by: sash1
i may be bias because i'm a huge sox fan, but i think he deserves to be in the HOF. great pitcher, elite post-season pitcher

that is reason enough IMO. In the playoffs with the game on the line, Schilling is the one person I'd want to have on the mound.

 

[Poulsonator]

Originally posted by: finite automaton
He's not a Red Sox. He's a Phillie.

He's a Red Sox. His best years were all after his days as a Philly. In fact, I remember him more as a Diamondback than a Philly even. Most importantly, though, he delivered on his promise to bring a championship to Boston, and he did it not only in his first year, but in the most dramatic fashion possible.

Also, and not that it matters, but he was drafted by the Sox in 1986. He was eventually traded to Baltimore (along with Brady Anderson) for Mike Boddicker in 1988.

My guess is that he goes into the Hall as a member of the Red Sox.

 

[Perknose]

I certainly hope he makes the HOF. The guy's a gamer. He always rose to the occasion. :thumbsup:

 

[techs]

Is he a HOFer in your opinion?

I'm not sure. However, I AM sure he's a HOF'er in HIS opinion.

 

[lupi]

He was the starting pitcher in 2 of the greatest world series games I've ever seen; works for me.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Poulsonator

Originally posted by: finite automaton
He's not a Red Sox. He's a Phillie.

He's a Red Sox. His best years were all after his days as a Philly. In fact, I remember him more as a Diamondback than a Philly even. Most importantly, though, he delivered on his promise to bring a championship to Boston, and he did it not only in his first year, but in the most dramatic fashion possible.

Also, and not that it matters, but he was drafted by the Sox in 1986. He was eventually traded to Baltimore (along with Brady Anderson) for Mike Boddicker in 1988.

My guess is that he goes into the Hall as a member of the Red Sox.

I tend to think the Johnson/Schilling game 7 was more epic than the bloody sock.

Yeha, I don't think anyone in their right mind would think of him as a Philly. He was completely worthless there.

 

[Crusty]

:thumbsup:

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: lupi
He was the starting pitcher in 2 of the greatest world series games I've ever seen; works for me.

I assume one of those games you are referring to is the sock? that was in the ALCS.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: winnar111
Absolute first ballot HOF.

I don't know if he's ever won a Cy Young, but I don't hold that against him. Manny's never won an MVP.

Nolan Ryan never won a Cy Young award. He certainly had a more impressive career (IMHO) but he was a no-doubt first ballot HOFer.

Curt will make it. I wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't a first ballot HOF, but I think he will be.

 

[Poulsonator]

Originally posted by: zinfamous
I tend to think the Johnson/Schilling game 7 was more epic than the bloody sock.

I can't argue with you on this. As a Red Sox fan, his 2004 ALCS Game 6 performance will always be one of my fondest baseball memories. However, what he and Randy Johnson did in that 2001 World Series is beyond incredible. Thanks to Byung-Hyun Kim, we got to see Schill and Randy do some special things, and there's nothing like a 7 game series ending in the final at-bat.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: finite automaton
He's not a Red Sox. He's a Phillie.

Maybe, but his most memorable moments occured in this decade after he left Philadelphia.

Yes, whenever i think Schilling, i think of the bloody sock. I didn't even know he played for phillie before arizona.

Must not be a very good Boston fan if you don't know the history of some of your best players.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: zinfamous
Yeha, I don't think anyone in their right mind would think of him as a Philly. He was completely worthless there.

That's a stupid statement, based on haste and ignorance, and completely untrue.

Schilling's career stats:

1988 Baltimore Orioles 0 3 9.82 4 4 0 0 0 --- 14.2 22 19 16 3 1 10 4
1989 Baltimore Orioles 0 1 6.23 5 1 0 0 0 --- 8.2 10 6 6 2 0 3 6
1990 Baltimore Orioles 1 2 2.54 35 0 0 0 3 --- 46.0 38 13 13 1 0 19 32
1991 Houston Astros 3 5 3.81 56 0 0 0 8 --- 75.2 79 35 32 2 0 39 71
1992 Philadelphia Phillies 14 11 2.35 42 26 10 4 2 --- 226.1 165 67 59 11 1 59 147
1993 Philadelphia Phillies 16 7 4.02 34 34 7 2 0 --- 235.1 234 114 105 23 4 57 186
1994 Philadelphia Phillies 2 8 4.48 13 13 1 0 0 --- 82.1 87 42 41 10 3 28 58
1995 Philadelphia Phillies 7 5 3.57 17 17 1 0 0 --- 116.0 96 52 46 12 3 26 114
1996 Philadelphia Phillies 9 10 3.19 26 26 8 2 0 --- 183.1 149 69 65 16 3 50 182
1997 Philadelphia Phillies 17 11 2.97 35 35 7 2 0 --- 254.1 208 96 84 25 5 58 319
1998 Philadelphia Phillies 15 14 3.25 35 35 15 2 0 --- 268.2 236 101 97 23 6 61 300
1999 Philadelphia Phillies 15 6 3.54 24 24 8 1 0 0 180.1 159 74 71 25 5 44 152
2000 Arizona Diamondbacks 5 6 3.69 13 13 4 1 0 0 97.2 94 41 40 10 0 13 72
2000 Philadelphia Phillies 6 6 3.91 16 16 4 1 0 0 112.2 110 49 49 17 1 32 96
2001 Arizona Diamondbacks 22 6 2.98 35 35 6 1 0 0 256.2 237 86 85 37 1 39 293
2002 Arizona Diamondbacks 23 7 3.23 36 35 5 1 0 0 259.1 218 95 93 29 3 33 316
2003 Arizona Diamondbacks 8 9 2.95 24 24 3 2 0 0 168.0 144 58 55 17 3 32 194
2004 Boston Red Sox 21 6 3.26 32 32 3 0 0 0 226.2 206 84 82 23 5 35 203
2005 Boston Red Sox 8 8 5.69 32 11 0 0 9 11 93.1 121 59 59 12 3 22 87
2006 Boston Red Sox 15 7 3.97 31 31 0 0 0 0 204.0 220 90 90 28 3 28 183
2007 Boston Red Sox 9 8 3.87 24 24 1 1 0 0 151.0 165 68 65 21 2 23 101
Career Totals 216 146 3.46 569 436 83 20 22 --- 3261.0 2998 1318 1253 347 52 711 3116

Schilling played more years, and won more games as a Phillie. He was a two time all-star, and led the Phils into the 1993 World Series.

He was our ace, and COMPLETELY feared and respected around the league. To say he was "completely worthless there" is just plain wrong.

 

[murphy55d]

I don't think he'll be first ballot but he'll get in.