Red Cross blocked from delivering aid to Superdome immediately after Hurricane?

[Duckzilla]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Nobody will ever get me to belive that FEMA cannot enter a state in a time of a National Crisis without some approval from a Governor.

They were arguing over FEMA wanting to FEDERALIZE LA National Guardsmen..

FEMA took time to TURN AWAY HELP --- but they didn't have the authority to enter the state 😕

Yeah, there's something amiss there, to be sure. I want to take this opportunity to express my opinion. Like I said 4 or 5 days ago, if Bush wants to vindicate himself, fire Brown. That's good enough for me and while I have no political affiliation, I'm poor. In other words, my opinion is NOT POLITICALLY MOTIVATED. Fire the moron.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: conjur
What reporter? There was no reporter in the OP. One party was Hugh Hewitt...Limbaugh-wannabe. The other party was a right-wing hack pushing a book.

And what effect does any of that have on the truth that was spoken? Oh that's right, conjur only hears the truth he wants to hear and diverts away from truth that doesn't fit his agenda.

 

[conjur]

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp...-Picayune/archives/2005_08.html#074657

About 26,000 New Orleans residents sought refuge from Hurricane Katrina at the Superdome, which authorities describe as the "shelter of last resort," Lt. Gov. Mitch Landrieu said late Sunday. To help keep them fed and hydrated, the Louisiana National Guard delivered three truckloads of water and seven truckloads of MREs ? short for "meals ready to eat." That's enough to supply 15,000 people for three days, according to Col. Jay Mayeaux, deputy director of the Department of Homeland Security's Office of Emergency Preparedness.

Outside the New Orleans area, the Louisiana Red Cross has opened 45 emergency shelters that were serving about 3,000 evacuees as of late Sunday, said Victor Howell, who heads the Red Cross of the Louisiana Capital Area.

Once Hurricane Katrina passes through, the Red Cross is prepared to deploy 750 employees and volunteers from Louisiana, plus an additional 2,000 from around the country. If the damage from Katrina is as great as authorities fear, Howell said he expects it to be the single largest hurricane relief effort ever undertaken by the American Red Cross.

So, the State did get some supplies into the area before the storm and even had the Red Cross working in the city already.

That Maj. Garrett is, imo, full of bush*t

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Yes, FEMA turnd them away. But what department does FEMA now belong to? Yep, DHS. The State DHS department was calling the shots and was ordering FEMA to prevent aid from coming into NOLA. Who controls the State DHS? Blanco.

Connect the dots.

And this also begs a question - If FEMA wasn't in NOLA in time, how could they possibly have been turning aid away in the immediate aftermath of the storm?

 

[conjur]

Oh, State DHS was controlling a FEDERAL agency that's under the FEDERAL DHS dept? Yeah....right.


Thanks for playing.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: conjur
Oh, State DHS was controlling a FEDERAL agency that's under the FEDERAL DHS dept? Yeah....right.


Thanks for playing.

There's no playing. That's how it works. The federal agencies assist the state and local departments and are under the control at the state level. If you'd actually read through the NRP instead of focusing on pgs 42/43, you'd know that already. In this type of situation, the Feds do not operate independently on a state's soil unless the state has ceded control to the Fed, which they didn't because Blanco refused.

 

[conjur]

For the umpteenth time, she did NOT refuse and you know that but you just have to keep up your partisan trolling. Also, you keep forgetting time and time again the Feds could and should have taken over relief operations regardless of the Gov's position.

 

[Queasy]

That CNN sure is full of "bush*t" - Link

BATON ROUGE, Louisiana (CNN) -- Louisiana officials rebuffed American Red Cross requests to enter New Orleans with relief supplies last week because of concerns over logistical difficulties, Red Cross and state officials said Thursday.

The Red Cross never launched its relief effort in the city.

The national president of the American Red Cross, Marsha Evans, first made the request to undertake the operation during a visit to the state on September 1, three days after Hurricane Katrina struck, a local Red Cross chapter official said.

Vic Howell, chief executive officer of the agency's Louisiana Capital Area Chapter, said he renewed that request the next day to Col. Jay Mayeaux, the deputy director of the Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness.

"We had adequate supplies, the people and the vehicles," Howell said at a news conference in Baton Rouge. "It was the middle of a military rescue operation trying to save lives. We were asked not to go in, and we abided by that recommendation."

Mayeaux, appearing at the news conference with Howell, said he had asked the Red Cross to wait 24 hours for conditions to be "set" for the operation.

"To set up a feeding station to feed a large number of people, you need space. You need to escort the personnel into position. ... And we asked Mr. Howell, and he concurred, to wait 24 hours to go to set that in," Mayeaux said.

By Saturday, however, the point became moot because the large-scale evacuation of the city was under way, Howell and Mayeaux said.

"After that point in time ... their rescue operation was in full force, and they felt they had adequate supplies there to take care of it without (the Red Cross) being introduced into the situation," Howell said. "So we did not go directly into New Orleans."

The National Guard began moving large quantities of food, water and ice into New Orleans and other damaged areas of southeast Louisiana on Wednesday, two days after the hurricane struck and a day before the Red Cross made its request to go in, Mayeaux said.

The supplies were being delivered from Camp Beauregard, a National Guard base near Alexandria, 150 miles away, in the central part of the state.

So far, 16.4 million pounds of ice, 14.2 million quarts of water and 7.9 million ready-to-eat meals have been distributed, Mayeaux said.

In addition, food and water had also been stored before the storm at the Louisiana Superdome and other shelters, Mayeaux said. He added that guard troops also brought supplies.

Mayeaux said that state officials did "push" supplies into the distribution pipeline before requests were made and did not wait for local officials to request them.

The Salvation Army was blocked as well

HH: And what did the Salvation Army tell you?

MG: The Salvation Army basically said look. We...first of all, both agencies also want to let people know that they've served the needs of thousands of people who got out, and who got out just a little bit to high ground, north of New Orleans. But they couldn't get in to meet those needs. They asked to get in. They were prepared with their...the Salvation Army has these ever-familiar portable kitchen canteens, is what they call them. They can actually make food, produce food on spot, and distribute it there. People line up. We've seen that at hurricanes and other natural disasters. They were ready. Not allowed in. At first, it was this idea that we don't want to create a magnet at the evacuation site. Secondarily, it became an issue of well, there's lots of water, and we can't assure your safety, so on and so forth. Here's another key point, Hugh. I was very specific with the American Red Cross, president and CEO Marty Evans, and said wait. Tell me clearly. Were you prepared to go in before the levees broke? Before water became an issue of any kind? She said absolutely. Were you denied access before the levees broke? She said we were denied access from minute one.

HH: And did they attempt to renew their request to get in after the levees broke, Major Garrett?

MG: Yes. I am told that the timeline indicates a frequent reasking of this question.

HH: And a frequent denial by Louisiana state Department of Homeland Security?

MG: Right. Because as we discussed last night, their system was this is the shelter of last resort. It is an evacuation site, not a services site. And today, in Louisiana, the Louisiana National Guard said look. Here we were. We had four hundred Louisiana National Guard soldiers at the Superdome. Let's do the math here, Hugh. Four hundred National Guard soldiers coping with thirty thousand evacuees.

HH: Right. Right.

MG: And they said, look. The Mayor told all these people to bring three days worth of food and water. Well, not very many people did. So the National Guard did bring in, on its own, palettes of food, water and things. But clearly, it wasn't enough. Clearly, they were overwhelmed. The numbers were staggering. In the end, it was up to 60,000 people that the National Guard had to supervise, or at least try to supervise at these two places, and eventually move out with the buses. Where did the buses come from? They came from FEMA. 1,100 of them were produced in 72 hours, even though as we all saw, buses were under water all over the city, never used.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: conjur
For the umpteenth time, she did NOT refuse and you know that but you just have to keep up your partisan trolling. Also, you keep forgetting time and time again the Feds could and should have taken over relief operations regardless of the Gov's position.

The White House did consider it but it would likely have caused a whole different animal in terms of political storms - NY Times

WASHINGTON, Sept. 8 - As New Orleans descended into chaos last week and Louisiana's governor asked for 40,000 soldiers, President Bush's senior advisers debated whether the president should speed the arrival of active-duty troops by seizing control of the hurricane relief mission from the governor.

For reasons of practicality and politics, officials at the Justice Department and the Pentagon, and then at the White House, decided not to urge Mr. Bush to take command of the effort. Instead, the Washington officials decided to rely on the growing number of National Guard personnel flowing into Louisiana, who were under Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco's control.

The debate began after officials realized that Hurricane Katrina had exposed a critical flaw in the national disaster response plans created after the Sept. 11 attacks. According to the administration's senior domestic security officials, the plan failed to recognize that local police, fire and medical personnel might be incapacitated.

As criticism of the response to Hurricane Katrina has mounted, one of the most pointed questions has been why more troops were not available more quickly to restore order and offer aid. Interviews with officials in Washington and Louisiana show that as the situation grew worse, they were wrangling with questions of federal/state authority, weighing the realities of military logistics and perhaps talking past each other in the crisis.

To seize control of the mission, Mr. Bush would have had to invoke the Insurrection Act, which allows the president in times of unrest to command active-duty forces into the states to perform law enforcement duties. But decision makers in Washington felt certain that Ms. Blanco would have resisted surrendering control, as Bush administration officials believe would have been required to deploy active-duty combat forces before law and order had been re-established.

While combat troops can conduct relief missions without the legal authority of the Insurrection Act, Pentagon and military officials say that no active-duty forces could have been sent into the chaos of New Orleans on Wednesday or Thursday without confronting law-and-order challenges.

But just as important to the administration were worries about the message that would have been sent by a president ousting a Southern governor of another party from command of her National Guard, according to administration, Pentagon and Justice Department officials.

"Can you imagine how it would have been perceived if a president of the United States of one party had pre-emptively taken from the female governor of another party the command and control of her forces, unless the security situation made it completely clear that she was unable to effectively execute her command authority and that lawlessness was the inevitable result?" asked one senior administration official, who spoke anonymously because the talks were confidential.

Officials in Louisiana agree that the governor would not have given up control over National Guard troops in her state as would have been required to send large numbers of active-duty soldiers into the area. But they also say they were desperate and would have welcomed assistance by active-duty soldiers.

"I need everything you have got," Ms. Blanco said she told Mr. Bush last Monday, after the storm hit.

In an interview, she acknowledged that she did not specify what sorts of soldiers. "Nobody told me that I had to request that," Ms. Blanco said. "I thought that I had requested everything they had. We were living in a war zone by then."

By Wednesday, she had asked for 40,000 soldiers.

In the discussions in Washington, also at issue was whether active-duty troops could respond faster and in larger numbers than the Guard.

By last Wednesday, Pentagon officials said even the 82nd Airborne, which has a brigade on standby to move out within 18 hours, could not arrive any faster than 7,000 National Guard troops, which are specially trained and equipped for civilian law enforcement duties.

In the end, the flow of thousands of National Guard soldiers, especially military police, was accelerated from other states.

"I was there. I saw what needed to be done," Lt. Gen. H Steven Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau, said in an interview. "They were the fastest, best-capable, most appropriate force to get there in the time allowed. And that's what it's all about."

But one senior Army officer expressed puzzlement that active-duty troops were not summoned sooner, saying 82nd Airborne troops were ready to move out from Fort Bragg, N.C., on Sunday, the day before the hurricane hit.

The call never came, administration officials said, in part because military officials believed Guard troops would get to the stricken region faster and because administration civilians worried that there could be political fallout if federal troops were forced to shoot looters.

Louisiana officials were furious that there was not more of a show of force, in terms of relief supplies and troops, from the federal government in the middle of last week. As the water was rising in New Orleans, the governor repeatedly questioned whether Washington had started its promised surge of federal resources.

"We needed equipment," Ms. Blanco said in an interview. "Helicopters. We got isolated."

Aides to Ms. Blanco said she was prepared to accept the deployment of active-duty military officials in her state. But she and other state officials balked at giving up control of the Guard as Justice Department officials said would have been required by the Insurrection Act if those combat troops were to be sent in before order was restored.

In a separate discussion last weekend, the governor also rejected a more modest proposal for a hybrid command structure in which both the Guard and active-duty troops would be under the command of an active-duty, three-star general - but only after he had been sworn into the Louisiana National Guard.

Lt. Gen. James T. Conway, director of operations for the military's Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that the Pentagon in August streamlined a rigid, decades-old system of deployment orders to allow the military's Northern Command to dispatch liaisons to work with local officials before an approaching hurricane.

The Pentagon is reviewing events from the time Hurricane Katrina reached full strength and bore down on New Orleans and five days later when Mr. Bush ordered 7,200 active-duty soldiers and marines to the scene.

After the hurricane passed New Orleans and the levees broke, flooding the city, it became increasingly evident that disaster-response efforts were badly bogged down.

Justice Department lawyers, who were receiving harrowing reports from the area, considered whether active-duty military units could be brought into relief operations even if state authorities gave their consent - or even if they refused.

The issue of federalizing the response was one of several legal issues considered in a flurry of meetings at the Justice Department, the White House and other agencies, administration officials said.

Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales urged Justice Department lawyers to interpret the federal law creatively to help local authorities, those officials said. For example, federal prosecutors prepared to expand their enforcement of some criminal statutes like anti-carjacking laws that can be prosecuted by either state or federal authorities.

On the issue of whether the military could be deployed without the invitation of state officials, the Office of Legal Counsel, the unit within the Justice Department that provides legal advice to federal agencies, concluded that the federal government had authority to move in even over the objection of local officials.

This act was last invoked in 1992 for the Los Angeles riots, but at the request of Gov. Pete Wilson of California, and has not been invoked over a governor's objections since the civil rights era - and before that, to the time of the Civil War, administration officials said. Bush administration, Pentagon and senior military officials warned that such an extreme measure would have serious legal and political implications.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has said deployment of National Guard soldiers to Iraq, including a brigade from Louisiana, did not affect the relief mission, but Ms. Blanco disagreed.

"Over the last year, we have had about 5,000 out, at one time," she said. "They are on active duty, serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. That certainly is a factor."

By Friday, National Guard reinforcements had arrived, and a truck convoy of 1,000 Guard soldiers brought relief supplies - and order - to the convention center area.

Officials from the Department of Homeland Security say the experience with Hurricane Katrina has demonstrated flaws in the nation's plans to handle disaster.

"This event has exposed, perhaps ultimately to our benefit, a deficiency in terms of replacing first responders who tragically may be the first casualties," Paul McHale, the assistant secretary of defense for domestic security, said.

Michael Chertoff, the secretary of homeland security, has suggested that active-duty troops be trained and equipped to intervene if front-line emergency personnel are stricken. But the Pentagon's leadership remains unconvinced that this plan is sound, suggesting instead that the national emergency response plans be revised to draw reinforcements initially from civilian police, firefighters, medical personnel and hazardous-waste experts in other states not affected by a disaster.

The federal government rewrote its national emergency response plan after the Sept. 11 attacks, but it relied on local officials to manage any crisis in its opening days. But Hurricane Katrina overwhelmed local "first responders," including civilian police and the National Guard.

At a news conference on Saturday, Mr. Chertoff said, "The unusual set of challenges of conducting a massive evacuation in the context of a still dangerous flood requires us to basically break the traditional model and create a new model, one for what you might call kind of an ultra-catastrophe.""

Eric Schmitt and Thom Shanker reported from Washington for this article, and Eric Lipton from Baton Rouge, La. David Johnston contributed reporting.

 

[Medicine Bear]

So a reporter on the ground isn't as reliable as a guy who had a couple of phone conversations with someone and during the first one took zero notes and during the 2nd one took poor notes? Amazing set of blinders you have there conjur.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: conjur
For the umpteenth time, she did NOT refuse and you know that but you just have to keep up your partisan trolling. Also, you keep forgetting time and time again the Feds could and should have taken over relief operations regardless of the Gov's position.

So are you claiming Blanco did NOT refuse to sign over control of the NG to Bush?

Edit: Queasy beat me to it.

 

[conjur]

Yes, Queasy, there are even other threads on those articles.

What those don't mention is what is FEMA's involvment in stopping aid coming into the city. As I've posted before, the Red Cross was already in the city and providing assistance at various shelters plus the National Guard had seven trucks of MREs at the Superdome. The state had started the ball rolling but needed help from outside which makes me wonder if the Feds put the kibbosh on aid operations.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: conjur
Yes, Queasy, there are even other threads on those articles.

What those don't mention is what is FEMA's involvment in stopping aid coming into the city. As I've posted before, the Red Cross was already in the city and providing assistance at various shelters plus the National Guard had seven trucks of MREs at the Superdome. The state had started the ball rolling but needed help from outside which makes me wonder if the Feds put the kibbosh on aid operations.

FEMA's involvement in stopping the aid appears to be nil. It was the Louisiana State Department of Homeland Security who requested the aid not be taken in because they did not want to encourage people to stay at the Superdome. That's nice of them to do that and then not provide a way for these people to leave like they were supposed to per Louisiana's evacuation plans.

I'm extremely skeptical that the Feds would put the kibbosh on aid operation in Louisiana since they did not do that in Mississippi or Alabama. Nor did they do it last year when Florida experienced multiple hurricanes.

And the Red Cross was not in the city. They were outside of the city per your own post:

Outside the New Orleans area, the Louisiana Red Cross has opened 45 emergency shelters that were serving about 3,000 evacuees as of late Sunday

Alot of good that was doing the people at the Superdome on Monday, Tuesday, Wendesday, and Thursday.

Also, the Superdome had (per your post) supplies for 15,000 people for three days. They had almost double that amount at the Superdome. Those supplies were eaten up very quickly.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: conjur
Yes, Queasy, there are even other threads on those articles.

What those don't mention is what is FEMA's involvment in stopping aid coming into the city. As I've posted before, the Red Cross was already in the city and providing assistance at various shelters plus the National Guard had seven trucks of MREs at the Superdome. The state had started the ball rolling but needed help from outside which makes me wonder if the Feds put the kibbosh on aid operations.

FEMA's involvement in stopping the aid appears to be nil. It was the Louisiana State Department of Homeland Security who requested the aid not be taken in because they did not want to encourage people to stay at the Superdome.

That's what I'm saying we don't know for sure. We don't know what conversations were had with FEMA that might have led the State to order such a thing at the behest of the Feds. Do you understand that point yet?

That's nice of them to do that and then not provide a way for these people to leave like they were supposed to per Louisiana's evacuation plans.

Um, the city followed its evacuation plans as they were written. You can stop with the Rovian talking points.

I'm extremely skeptical that the Feds would put the kibbosh on aid operation in Louisiana since they did not do that in Mississippi or Alabama. Nor did they do it last year when Florida experienced multiple hurricanes.

This was a different situation, though, considering the levees had breached and there were initial reports of violent looters. And, why would the city keep people at the Superdome knowing they can't transport them out and then not provide them with food/water? It doesn't make sense. Look at the MANY other cases of FEMA DENYING aid coming into the area. Where's the pattern of denial lie?

And the Red Cross was not in the city. They were outside of the city per your own post:

Outside the New Orleans area, the Louisiana Red Cross has opened 45 emergency shelters that were serving about 3,000 evacuees as of late Sunday

Alot of good that was doing the people at the Superdome on Monday, Tuesday, Wendesday, and Thursday.

Also, the Superdome had (per your post) supplies for 15,000 people for three days. They had almost double that amount at the Superdome. Those supplies were eaten up very quickly.

My bad, you're correct. But what I said above still goes.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: conjur
Yes, Queasy, there are even other threads on those articles.

What those don't mention is what is FEMA's involvment in stopping aid coming into the city. As I've posted before, the Red Cross was already in the city and providing assistance at various shelters plus the National Guard had seven trucks of MREs at the Superdome. The state had started the ball rolling but needed help from outside which makes me wonder if the Feds put the kibbosh on aid operations.

FEMA's involvement in stopping the aid appears to be nil. It was the Louisiana State Department of Homeland Security who requested the aid not be taken in because they did not want to encourage people to stay at the Superdome.

That's what I'm saying we don't know for sure. We don't know what conversations were had with FEMA that might have led the State to order such a thing at the behest of the Feds. Do you understand that point yet?

That's nice of them to do that and then not provide a way for these people to leave like they were supposed to per Louisiana's evacuation plans.

Um, the city followed its evacuation plans as they were written. You can stop with the Rovian talking points.

City of N.O. Evacuation Plans - Karl Rove personally supplied these to me in the dark corner of a parking garage.

* Supply transportation as needed in accordance with the current Standard Operating Procedures.

* Place special vehicles on alert to be utilized if needed.

* Position supervisors and dispatch evacuation buses.

* If warranted by scope of evacuation, implement additional service.

New Orleans had a dry run with this last year with Hurricane Ivan. They allowed in only 1,100 citizens who had special needs but had 300 or 400 (can't remember the number) National Guardsmen stationed there. They didn't evacuate anybody out by bus then either.

http://www.colorado.edu/hazards/o/nov04/nov04c.html

The fact that 600,000 residents evacuated means an equal number did not. Recent evacuation surveys show that two thirds of nonevacuees with the means to evacuate chose not to leave because they felt safe in their homes. Other nonevacuees with means relied on a cultural tradition of not leaving or were discouraged by negative experiences with past evacuations. ...

Residents who did not have personal transportation were unable to evacuate even if they wanted to. Approximately 120,000 residents (51,000 housing units x 2.4 persons/unit) do not have cars. A proposal made after the evacuation for Hurricane Georges to use public transit buses to assist in their evacuation out of the city was not implemented for Ivan. If Ivan had struck New Orleans directly it is estimated that 40-60,000 residents of the area would have perished.

They also experienced the problems that putting thousands of people in the Superdome presents with Hurricane Georges in 1998. They had 14,000+ and experienced lots of robbery and vandalism.

This was a different situation, though, considering the levees had breached and there were initial reports of violent looters. And, why would the city keep people at the Superdome knowing they can't transport them out and then not provide them with food/water? It doesn't make sense. Look at the MANY other cases of FEMA DENYING aid coming into the area. Where's the pattern of denial lie?

I agree it doesn't make sense. Mississippi and FEMA no problem. Alabama and FEMA no problem. Florida and FEMA no problem. Any other state and FEMA no problem. Louisiana and FEMA have a problem though?

The LA DHS officials blocked the Red Cross and the Salvation Army even before the levees broke and the violent looting started.

MG: The Salvation Army basically said look. We...first of all, both agencies also want to let people know that they've served the needs of thousands of people who got out, and who got out just a little bit to high ground, north of New Orleans. But they couldn't get in to meet those needs. They asked to get in. They were prepared with their...the Salvation Army has these ever-familiar portable kitchen canteens, is what they call them. They can actually make food, produce food on spot, and distribute it there. People line up. We've seen that at hurricanes and other natural disasters. They were ready. Not allowed in. At first, it was this idea that we don't want to create a magnet at the evacuation site. Secondarily, it became an issue of well, there's lots of water, and we can't assure your safety, so on and so forth. Here's another key point, Hugh. I was very specific with the American Red Cross, president and CEO Marty Evans, and said wait. Tell me clearly. Were you prepared to go in before the levees broke? Before water became an issue of any kind? She said absolutely. Were you denied access before the levees broke? She said we were denied access from minute one.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Queasy
City of N.O. Evacuation Plans - Karl Rove personally supplied these to me in the dark corner of a parking garage.

* Supply transportation as needed in accordance with the current Standard Operating Procedures.

* Place special vehicles on alert to be utilized if needed.

* Position supervisors and dispatch evacuation buses.

* If warranted by scope of evacuation, implement additional service.

New Orleans had a dry run with this last year with Hurricane Ivan. They allowed in only 1,100 citizens who had special needs but had 300 or 400 (can't remember the number) National Guardsmen stationed there. They didn't evacuate anybody out by bus then either.

The City of New Orleans emergency plan (as has been posted in various threads up here in the last week or so) specifically points out that evacuation of those unable to leave on their own is only going to be to shelters within the city, with free transportation provided by RTA.


Here ya go:
http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/PrintPage.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas. Those evacuated will be directed to temporary sheltering and feeding facilities as needed. When specific routes of progress are required, evacuees will be directed to those routes. Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific life saving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed.

Slow developing weather conditions (primarily hurricane) will create increased readiness culminating in an evacuation order 24 hours (12 daylight hours) prior to predicted landfall. Disabled vehicles and debris will be removed from highways so as not to impede evacuation. In local evacuations involving more than fifty (50) families (i.e. 50 single dwelling units), staging areas may be established at the closest available public area outside the threatened area. Upon arrival at the staging area, evacuees will be directed to the appropriate shelter facility. Evacuees will be encouraged to stay with friends or relatives in non-threatened areas whenever possible. Security measures will be employed to protect the evacuated area(s) in accordance with established procedures and situations.

The use of travel-trailers, campers, motorcycles, bicycles, etc., during the evacuation will be allowed so long as the situation permits it. Public information broadcasts will include any prohibitions on their use. Transportation will be provided to those persons requiring public transportation from the area. (See Special Needs Transportation, ESF-1). An orderly return to the evacuated areas will be provided after the Mayor determines the threat to be terminated. Transportation back to the evacuated area after threat termination will be provided as available.

I agree it doesn't make sense. Mississippi and FEMA no problem. Alabama and FEMA no problem. Florida and FEMA no problem. Any other state and FEMA no problem. Louisiana and FEMA have a problem though?

There *were* problems with FEMA and MS and AL. There are plenty of news reports of problems but they just don't get the big press as does New Orleans. I've also seen interviews of various officials in other cities/states criticizing FEMA for a slow response.

The LA DHS officials blocked the Red Cross and the Salvation Army even before the levees broke and the violent looting started.

MG: The Salvation Army basically said look. We...first of all, both agencies also want to let people know that they've served the needs of thousands of people who got out, and who got out just a little bit to high ground, north of New Orleans. But they couldn't get in to meet those needs. They asked to get in. They were prepared with their...the Salvation Army has these ever-familiar portable kitchen canteens, is what they call them. They can actually make food, produce food on spot, and distribute it there. People line up. We've seen that at hurricanes and other natural disasters. They were ready. Not allowed in. At first, it was this idea that we don't want to create a magnet at the evacuation site. Secondarily, it became an issue of well, there's lots of water, and we can't assure your safety, so on and so forth. Here's another key point, Hugh. I was very specific with the American Red Cross, president and CEO Marty Evans, and said wait. Tell me clearly. Were you prepared to go in before the levees broke? Before water became an issue of any kind? She said absolutely. Were you denied access before the levees broke? She said we were denied access from minute one.

Sorry, I don't give that hack any credibility.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Queasy
City of N.O. Evacuation Plans - Karl Rove personally supplied these to me in the dark corner of a parking garage.

* Supply transportation as needed in accordance with the current Standard Operating Procedures.

* Place special vehicles on alert to be utilized if needed.

* Position supervisors and dispatch evacuation buses.

* If warranted by scope of evacuation, implement additional service.

New Orleans had a dry run with this last year with Hurricane Ivan. They allowed in only 1,100 citizens who had special needs but had 300 or 400 (can't remember the number) National Guardsmen stationed there. They didn't evacuate anybody out by bus then either.

The City of New Orleans emergency plan (as has been posted in various threads up here in the last week or so) specifically points out that evacuation of those unable to leave on their own is only going to be to shelters within the city, with free transportation provided by RTA.


Here ya go:
http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/PrintPage.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas. Those evacuated will be directed to temporary sheltering and feeding facilities as needed. When specific routes of progress are required, evacuees will be directed to those routes. Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific life saving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed.

Slow developing weather conditions (primarily hurricane) will create increased readiness culminating in an evacuation order 24 hours (12 daylight hours) prior to predicted landfall. Disabled vehicles and debris will be removed from highways so as not to impede evacuation. In local evacuations involving more than fifty (50) families (i.e. 50 single dwelling units), staging areas may be established at the closest available public area outside the threatened area. Upon arrival at the staging area, evacuees will be directed to the appropriate shelter facility. Evacuees will be encouraged to stay with friends or relatives in non-threatened areas whenever possible. Security measures will be employed to protect the evacuated area(s) in accordance with established procedures and situations.

The use of travel-trailers, campers, motorcycles, bicycles, etc., during the evacuation will be allowed so long as the situation permits it. Public information broadcasts will include any prohibitions on their use. Transportation will be provided to those persons requiring public transportation from the area. (See Special Needs Transportation, ESF-1). An orderly return to the evacuated areas will be provided after the Mayor determines the threat to be terminated. Transportation back to the evacuated area after threat termination will be provided as available.

There's so much conflicting information out there I'm going to let this go for now. You have stuff saying they were only going to be transported in the city I have stuff saying there were plans to transport them out of the city. Nothing but circles right now.

I agree it doesn't make sense. Mississippi and FEMA no problem. Alabama and FEMA no problem. Florida and FEMA no problem. Any other state and FEMA no problem. Louisiana and FEMA have a problem though?

There *were* problems with FEMA and MS and AL. There are plenty of news reports of problems but they just don't get the big press as does New Orleans. I've also seen interviews of various officials in other cities/states criticizing FEMA for a slow response.

FEMA has always had a slow response. FEMA themself says 72 hours. At the same time, this was a disaster of incredible scale going across three states. I expect there to be some problems. Nothing goes perfectly especially when dealing with any bureaucratic agency.

Sorry, I don't give that hack any credibility.

He's reporting discussions he's had with Red Cross and Salvation Army officials who corroborate each others stories. Call him a hack or not, even CNN is picking up on the story.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: Queasy
FEMA has always had a slow response. FEMA themself says 72 hours. At the same time, this was a disaster of incredible scale going across three states. I expect there to be some problems. Nothing goes perfectly especially when dealing with any bureaucratic agency.

72 hours yes. Since the power and direction of a hurricane can be determined with a fair amount of accuracy, unlike terrorist attacks or earthquakes, that 72 hours starts when the hurricane center has a good idea in what general area the hurricane will make landfall. Or even simpler in the case of Katrina the 72 hours started when Gov. Blanco on 8/26.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Queasy
FEMA has always had a slow response. FEMA themself says 72 hours. At the same time, this was a disaster of incredible scale going across three states. I expect there to be some problems. Nothing goes perfectly especially when dealing with any bureaucratic agency.

72 hrs from when the Federal Disaster is declared. That was Aug. 27 and backdated to Aug. 26.

He's reporting discussions he's had with Red Cross and Salvation Army officials who corroborate each others stories. Call him a hack or not, even CNN is picking up on the story.

And the WaPo printed a story that Gov. Blanco never declared a state of emergency. Your point?

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: Queasy
FEMA has always had a slow response. FEMA themself says 72 hours. At the same time, this was a disaster of incredible scale going across three states. I expect there to be some problems. Nothing goes perfectly especially when dealing with any bureaucratic agency.

72 hours yes. Since the power and direction of a hurricane can be determined with a fair amount of accuracy, unlike terrorist attacks or earthquakes, that 72 hours starts when the hurricane center has a good idea in what general area the hurricane will make landfall. Or even simpler in the case of Katrina the 72 hours started when Gov. Blanco on 8/26.

The same State of Emergency and Declarations of Disaster Areas were made at the federal level prior to the hurricane arriving as well. Supplies were prepositioned. Then the hurricane hit and passed and everyone in New Orleans was saying "Whew, we sure dodged another". Then the levees broke hours later and the real disaster for New Orleans occured.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: conjur

He's reporting discussions he's had with Red Cross and Salvation Army officials who corroborate each others stories. Call him a hack or not, even CNN is picking up on the story.

And the WaPo printed a story that Gov. Blanco never declared a state of emergency. Your point?

Gov. Blanco's website showed the WaPo had made a mistake. The Red Cross website confirms Garrett's report. Your point?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Queasy
The same State of Emergency and Declarations of Disaster Areas were made at the federal level prior to the hurricane arriving as well. Supplies were prepositioned. Then the hurricane hit and passed and everyone in New Orleans was saying "Whew, we sure dodged another". Then the levees broke hours later and the real disaster for New Orleans occured.

No. The levees started breaching at 11am on Monday. The storm hadn't passed at that point.

11am Eastern storm location:
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2005/graphics/AT12/27.AL1205W.GIF

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: conjur

He's reporting discussions he's had with Red Cross and Salvation Army officials who corroborate each others stories. Call him a hack or not, even CNN is picking up on the story.

And the WaPo printed a story that Gov. Blanco never declared a state of emergency. Your point?

Gov. Blanco's website showed the WaPo had made a mistake. The Red Cross website confirms Garrett's report. Your point?

You know what my point is. I've been saying it over and over and over but you can't get it through your thick head.

FEMA was involved at some level at that point. We don't know if FEMA gave orders or recommendations to the LA National Guard to refuse aid into the city at that point. Only a truly bi-partisan, independent investigation will uncover this unknown (and the GOP wants a majority Republican committee...beautiful.)

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: conjur
My problem is he's a partisan hack and likely embellishing things a bit.

Ok, since anything anyone who is moderate or conservative that doesn't agree with you is completely bogus... how about your bible? CNN.


Red Cross twice rebuffed in sending relief into New Orleans

BATON ROUGE, La. (CNN) -- American Red Cross officials twice asked to be allowed to enter New Orleans with relief supplies late last week after the city was savaged by Hurricane Katrina, but they were asked not to do so by state officials concerned about the logistical difficulties of such an operation, Red Cross and state officials said Thursday.

Vic Howell, chief executive officer of the Red Cross' Louisiana Capital Area Chapter, said the request was first made on Thursday during a visit to the state by the national president of the American Red Cross, Marsha Evans.

He said he then renewed that request on Friday to Col. Jay Mayeaux, the deputy director of the Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness.

"We made the offer as a humanitarian organization to go in and provide support to the people that were in need," Howell said at a news conference in Baton Rouge. "We had adequate supplies, the people and the vehicles ... to do that. It was the middle of a military rescue operation trying to save lives. We were asked not to go in, and we abided by that recommendation."

Mayeaux, who appeared at the news conference with Howell, said during their conversation on Friday, he asked the Red Cross to wait 24 hours so that conditions could be "set" for the operation.

"To set up a feeding station to feed a large number of people, you need space, you need to escort the personnel into position, set up the appropriate matter in which you want to feed those personnel. And we asked Mr. Howell, and he concurred, to wait 24 hours to go to set that in," Mayeaux said.

By Saturday, however, with large-scale evacuations of the city well under way, the point was moot, and the Red Cross never launched its relief effort in the city, according to both Howell and Mayeaux. (Posted: 1:00 a.m.)

The left off the "we don't want more people showing up" comment and they called the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security "officials." Even in reporting the "truth" they slant the story. After all, with all the other lies, sorry, "fake but true" stories they are reporting they probably hope that "officials" will be interpreted as President Bush.

So, the Governor and his agents stopped FEMA, stopped the President of the United States, and now stopped the Red Cross from delivering aid. How much more blood is on the hands of the Governor and her supporters.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Originally posted by: conjur
My problem is he's a partisan hack and likely embellishing things a bit.

Ok, since anything anyone who is moderate or conservative that doesn't agree with you is completely bogus... how about your bible? CNN.


Red Cross twice rebuffed in sending relief into New Orleans

BATON ROUGE, La. (CNN) -- American Red Cross officials twice asked to be allowed to enter New Orleans with relief supplies late last week after the city was savaged by Hurricane Katrina, but they were asked not to do so by state officials concerned about the logistical difficulties of such an operation, Red Cross and state officials said Thursday.

Vic Howell, chief executive officer of the Red Cross' Louisiana Capital Area Chapter, said the request was first made on Thursday during a visit to the state by the national president of the American Red Cross, Marsha Evans.

He said he then renewed that request on Friday to Col. Jay Mayeaux, the deputy director of the Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness.

"We made the offer as a humanitarian organization to go in and provide support to the people that were in need," Howell said at a news conference in Baton Rouge. "We had adequate supplies, the people and the vehicles ... to do that. It was the middle of a military rescue operation trying to save lives. We were asked not to go in, and we abided by that recommendation."

Mayeaux, who appeared at the news conference with Howell, said during their conversation on Friday, he asked the Red Cross to wait 24 hours so that conditions could be "set" for the operation.

"To set up a feeding station to feed a large number of people, you need space, you need to escort the personnel into position, set up the appropriate matter in which you want to feed those personnel. And we asked Mr. Howell, and he concurred, to wait 24 hours to go to set that in," Mayeaux said.

By Saturday, however, with large-scale evacuations of the city well under way, the point was moot, and the Red Cross never launched its relief effort in the city, according to both Howell and Mayeaux. (Posted: 1:00 a.m.)

The left off the "we don't want more people showing up" comment and they called the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security "officials." Even in reporting the "truth" they slant the story. After all, with all the other lies, sorry, "fake but true" stories they are reporting they probably hope that "officials" will be interpreted as President Bush.

So, the Governor and his agents stopped FEMA, stopped the President of the United States, and now stopped the Red Cross from delivering aid. How much more blood is on the hands of the Governor and her supporters.

Uhh...note the dates in the article you posted. I bolded them for you.

Interesting...just as I've been saying all along. FEMA was in charge at that point. I can guaran-fvcking-tee you that FEMA forced the denial of aid.

Interesting how that Maj. Garrett left that part out. He made it seem like it was Mon. or Tue. What a fvcking hack he is.