Recommendations for PCI card to replace i810?

[Slickone]

A buddy of mine as an HP 533Mhz w/ an integrated i810 graphics chip and wants to upgrade video to play some of the newer games. He bought a GF2 MX200 AGP but didnt check first and has no AGP port. Another friend has a Voodoo 3 2000 PCI that he'd sell cheap.. Would this be much faster? Or else he can pay a little more (~$20 more?) and get a GF 2 MX400 PCI from eb*y. Or ~$20 more for the Jaton MX400 (good overclocker). Do they make a GF 2 GTS or Pro in PCI?

Anyone know of any video card roundups w/ the 810 and Voodoo 3 (or GF2 MX)?

 

[Moishe]

Find a Radeon 9000 PCI.

The voodoo3 PCI is gonna be much faster than the i810, and the gfmx should be faster than the v3.

 

[AnAndAustin]

Yep. Speedwise; i810 -> V3 -> GF2MX -> Rad7500/GF4MX420 -> GF4MX440 -> Rad9000. These can all be found in PCI form. However, with a CPU at 550mhz there's little point getting much more than a V3 or GF2MX, see what the prices are like but he's going to need at to get a CPU at least closer to 1ghz, then it really would be worth plumping for the Rad9000 PCI.

 

[Slickone]

So I guess theres no GF2 GTS/Pro PCI?

 

[spanky]

Originally posted by: Slickone
So I guess theres no GF2 GTS/Pro PCI?

nope.

btw, if he is planning on playing newer games... then i think u should skip right over the gf2mx line. also, his cpu is a bit on the slow side (533... thats a celery right?).

but i think he really needs a complete system upgrade. something like so...
1ghz duron ~ $35
socket a mobo ~ $40
gf3 ti200 ~ $70

u could prolly get a mobo that uses his sdram. if u get a ddr board... a 256mb pc2100 dimm will run about $50. then u might need a case and psu.... i got in on the $35 comet case over at the hot deals forum for $35 shipped. that included a 400w psu. then just reuse his current hard drive, cdrom, etc... and u should be set. might sound like a lot of work, but i think in the end.. it is better. performance should increase by leaps and bounds over a 533 celery w/ pci video card.

 

[Mingon]

I have a shuttle SFF, my current choice for a pci card are the mx440 and the radeon 9000. I have both on order currently and will post some benches when they arrive.

 

[Mloot]

You're ordering both? Do you have two rigs, or do you plan on selling the slower one?

 

[kurt454]

Slickone, get the Voodoo. It is the best match to the 533mhz cpu. No pci vid card is going to be fast nowadays. The T&L engines on Geforce and Radeon cards actually harm performance on a pci card. I know, I have a Geforce2 MX400 64meg PCI card that I installed on a P3 600. It got worse performance than my work computer(P3 500) that runs an 8meg ATI Rage Pro AGP card. Buy a cheap motherboard with an AGP slot. You will thank me for it.

 

[DarkKnight]

If you plan to buy a PCI card with 32megs+ memory or DDR Ram, check how much power the card needs. Some of the newer PCi cards require 250 watt PSUs and I'm sure the PSU in your system is under 200 watts (I know, I have 2 HP computers). You should check the HP forums to see if there are any problems with PCI video cards on your system.

 

[Mloot]

I'm running an MX440 pci in my 180w Dell. Works great.

 

[Mingon]

You're ordering both? Do you have two rigs, or do you plan on selling the slower one

I actually have 4 pcs at the moment but 1 is due to be sold. My main 3 are a koolance base rig for my work / games, a laptop for e-mail / surfing and the shuttle is for divx / mp3 in my living room. I have had loads of nvdia cards and so far not been disapointed, but the radeon 9000 is directx8.1 compatable so it could be quicker, also I have some older games which dont work well on on my current setup (starship troopers) and I fancy having a look at an ati card again. Both cards are clocked equally give or take 25mhz on the geforce 4 core, so performance shouldnt be much different, and as i will be running them on the tv-out @ 800x600 I should not get slowdowns. My other considerations on which one I will keep will be heat (my 1ghz tualatin is passive cooled) and size(case cramped due to me adding a 5" lcd screen and touchpad to outer case).

 

[Slickone]

Cool. Good info. Guess I'll suggest the Voodoo3. I never found a Radeon 9000 PCI anyway.

 

[Mingon]

I wouldnt get the voodoo, the driver support is non existant and the performance is only just acceptable. I would suggest the mx420 pci as its cheap and a reasonable performer with good driver support

 

[AnAndAustin]

Yep if Rad9000 proves too obscure then I would choose either Rad7500 or GF4MX420. They are both pretty much identical offering over a GF2MX; 50% faster 3D, hugely better image quality, dual display, TVout and hw DVD playback. Voodoo5 is a fair bit faster than Voodoo3 and even V5 can struggle to keep up with a GF2MX, drivers and lack of hw T&L are significant reasons to buy something more modern than Voodoo. Of course your CPU won't get the most out of these cards, see what you can find for what prices.

 

[Slickone]

A GF4MX420 is too expensive in this case. Also, maybe 50% faster on a fast CPU w/ AGP, but remember this is a 533 Celeron and PCI. Wouldn't the point of diminished returns start around a GF2?

 

[kurt454]

No disrespect to the posters in this forum, but I still say the voodoo 3 is the best match for a 533mhz cpu. My P3 600 machine ran its best for me with the voodoo card, over the geforce2 mx400 pci that was tried. Drivers are still pretty good for the games that you will actually be able to play on that machine.

 

[AnAndAustin]

To a degree a Celeron 533 is hardly going to get great perf out of these cards. Even so GF4MX420 and Rad7500 will still be noticably faster and also have better image quality, TVout, dual display and hw DVD playback. Rad7500 and GF4MX420 are about equivilent in speed to a GF2GTS but again have the added benefits listed above. Any card tends to lose about 20% of its perf going to PCI from AGP, so having a GF4MX420 PCI is only likely to be about 30% faster than a GF2MX AGP anyway! See what the price diffs are, a GF2MX will do fine but it shouldn't cost much extra for one of the better cards which would be wise IMHO.

EDIT: Voodoo5 is a LOT faster than Voodoo3 esp in 32bit colour, take a look how it fairs against these type of cards:

AnAndTech Voodoo5 review w/PIII-550mhz AND Athlon750mhz (inc GF1, GF2MX, GF2GTS, TNT2, V3, V4 & Rage)
AnAndTech Voodoo4 review w/Athlon1.1ghz but with V4 CPU scaling (inc V5, GF2MX, GF2GTS & Radeon SDR/DDR)
TomsHW Radeon reviews w/PIII-1ghz (inc GF2MX, GF2GTS, GF1 & V5)
Tech Report Voodoo5 review w/PIII-800mhz & other (inc GF2GTS, GF1, TNT2)

 

[kurt454]

Here is a link to a Geforce 2MX PCI card review. Performance of the card almost doubles when T&L is turned off. Only problem is not alot of games have an in-game option to turn off T&L, so performance will suffer using a geforce or radeon based card in any game that uses T&L. The voodoo cards do not use T&L so they do not suffer the same drop, but you are stuck with a lower image quality than the later cards.

 

[AnAndAustin]

No disrespect kurt454 but that sentence makes no sense what-so-ever!

Just a couple of points about the review. It is VERY old (3 years or so), it lists the price of a GF2MX 32MB as $149 and GF2GTS were $300-600 as were Voodoo5 cards! A GF2MX, GF4MX etc lose about 20% perf going from AGP to PCI and that's using hw T&L which is something nearly all remotely modern games use and something no 3dfx cards offer. By your own words you state that the GF2MX which is already significantly faster than Voodoo3 can actually double its perf ... LOL! Voodoo3 barely gives TNT2 perf let alone GF2MX, in fact the much more capable Voodoo5 often struggles with a GF2MX!

Just out of morbid curiosity, why on Earth are you running an Athlon 1.4ghz with a TNT2? A Duron 1ghz with a GF3TI200 or Rad8500 would seriously kick your PC's butt!

Guru3D GF2MX PCI vs AGP
PC Mech Riva128 PCI vs AGP
RivaStation TNT2 PCI vs AGP

 

[kurt454]

Just out of morbid curiosity, why on Earth are you running an Athlon 1.4ghz with a TNT2? A Duron 1ghz with a GF3TI200 or Rad8500 would seriously kick your PC's butt!

Lol. This is not my game machine. This is what I surf the internet with. I'll not argue anymore. I own a Voodoo 3 3000 PCI card and a Geforce2 MX400 PCI card. Tried both in my brothers Pentium3 600mhz machine. This was about a year ago. I may have made a config. error with the GF2, but the Voodoo3 is still in the machine to this day. If PCI bus only loses 20% speed then ATI needs to sell a 9700Pro PCI card. It would be faster still than a TI4600. That would be a hoot. Anyway I have a Geforce3 in my game machine, and I still say the guy's best bet is a system upgrade to a mobo with agp.

 

[spanky]

Lol. This is not my game machine. This is what I surf the internet with.

ouch... tnt card for web surfing? just about any ati card has better 2d then the tnt series

 

[AnAndAustin]

The only prob with sticking a new mobo and CPU in there is that it's HP and unlikely to accept anything, a new case and PSU would be a must.

Well PCI bus tends to only lose 20% over the AGP card of the same type for low end cards. If you stuck in a PCI Rad8500 or Rad9700 (not that it's viable due to voltage etc) and I think you'd lose a lot more than that! Actually IIRC the Voodoo cards 'only' lose about 10% going to PCI from AGP, but even so you'd still be looking at TNT2ultra perf from the Voodoo3 and even Voodoo5 would still perf worse than a Rad7500 or GF4MX420. Of course there are folk who've mentioned GF4MX440 in PCI form which is faster again, but my rec would be either Rad7500 or a GF4MX whichever you can get cheaper, 64MB being a must for PCI.

 

[trikster2]

Moishe

Where does one find a PCI Radeon 9000?

Sure would like to get one but keep on getting told REAL SOON NOW

Mloot/Mingon

Were did you find your PCI Geforce4MX440????

I can only find the MX420 in PCI and am considering the 440 (if I can find one) as a alternate if the PCI Radeon 9000 never shows it's face.

RE: Slickone. Remember that the Voodoo3, besides being discontinued is a 16 bit graphics card. Lot of the eyecandy like smoke looks better with 32 bit graphics....

 

[Deeko]

Voodoo ownz on PCI. Why? The cards aren't true AGP cards, so running it in PCI doesn't really have an adverse affect.

That said, the fastest card in PCI that you will find is the Radeon 9000. But will you see a difference between that and the Voodoo with that CPU? No. Get the Voodoo.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Just a quick note here: perhaps the processor on that HP is actually a P3... I helped someone buy a HP in the spring of 2000, and she got that HP P3 533 - I forgot what the model number was.

Not that it would make much of a difference, anyway...