Reasons why Intel will not dominate ARM (for the foreseeable future)

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OBLAMA2009

OBLAMA2009

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2008
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people are never going to buy heavy $600-1000 tablets when they can get $200 android tablets and $329 ipads that are good enough (and getting better). intel just isnt realistic about pricing. they tried to reset laptop prices in the last few years ago with ultrabooks and they didnt sell at those prices. it also doesnt help that windows 8 isnt that great, and there are also viable alternatives.
 
StrangerGuy

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
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OBLAMA2009 said:
people are never going to buy heavy $600-1000 tablets when they can get $200 android tablets and $329 ipads that are good enough (and getting better). intel just isnt realistic about pricing. they tried to reset laptop prices in the last few years ago with ultrabooks and they didnt sell at those prices. it also doesnt help that windows 8 isnt that great, and there are also viable alternatives.
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Nobody wants to pay a premium for laptops that are not branded "Apple", and for anything else the only key differentiator these days is how low can the price go because even the Pentiums are massively overkill for most people. Laptop ASPs had dropped just enough to pay for the Intel and MS "tax" along with the absolute bare necessities like the oh-so-amazing 200:1 contrast 768p TN LCDs and shoddy build quality. If they got even lower the whole thing would just break apart.
 
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Zodiark1593

Zodiark1593

Platinum Member
Oct 21, 2012
2,230
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OBLAMA2009 said:
people are never going to buy heavy $600-1000 tablets when they can get $200 android tablets and $329 ipads that are good enough (and getting better). intel just isnt realistic about pricing. they tried to reset laptop prices in the last few years ago with ultrabooks and they didnt sell at those prices. it also doesnt help that windows 8 isnt that great, and there are also viable alternatives.
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Blegh, as a hobbyist programmer, an ipad, or any tablet for that matter will not do the job for me (not so much the lack of keyboard, but the processing power, and the walled-garden app model). Unfortunately, I'm in the minority, but I foresee they're will still be laptops, or at least, mobile workstations still kicking around in the future, and most definitely desktops.
 
StrangerGuy

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
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Zodiark1593 said:
Blegh, as a hobbyist programmer, an ipad, or any tablet for that matter will not do the job for me (not so much the lack of keyboard, but the processing power, and the walled-garden app model). Unfortunately, I'm in the minority, but I foresee they're will still be laptops, or at least, mobile workstations still kicking around in the future, and most definitely desktops.
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Of course there will be PCs around duh. But the problem for Intel is no matter how large the PC install base is it still won't pay their bills when 99% of consumers don't buy PCs when the old one is more than good enough.
 
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paulcheung

Member
Jun 3, 2012
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Yes Wintel need to invent new OS and Programs that demand i7 8cores 16 threads to run properly. so everyone need to buy new computers. I am still using single core celron and Pentium 4 3.4gz. on most my applications. the days like 80s and 90s won't be back.
 
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ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
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paulcheung said:
Yes Wintel need to invent new OS and Programs that demand i7 8cores 16 threads to run properly. so everyone need to buy new computers. I am still using single core celron and Pentium 4 3.4gz. on most my applications. the days like 80s and 90s won't be back.
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I wonder if Intel/AMD are involved in some conspiracy related to the amount of memory computers have. Memory is always the #1 reason computers become useless. My 6 year old ghetto laptop would work great if I could pack it full of ram, but 2gb is the limit. I had to buy a solid state hard drive just to make it usable (reduced hard drive lag from always using the swap file). My mom's computer right now has a limit of 4gb, so that's pretty close to done. The computer I'm using as a server is limited to 4gb, so that's close to being finished. As long as programs keep using more memory, I need to keep buying new motherboards, so that means new CPU as well. It's a conspiracy!!!

Half joking. It's not really a conspiracy. It's just a smart business move.
 
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Ben90

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
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ShawnD1 said:
My 6 year old ghetto laptop would work great if I could pack it full of ram, but 2gb is the limit.
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My T61 from early 2007 supports 8GB. It's starting to show its age though. RIP the last of the good 4:3 laptops. Widescreen is just way too bulky on laptops.
 
dud

dud

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,635
73
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These threads only exist (IMHO) because many people are unhappy with the status quo when it comes to processors. There are those who are accused of being Intel or AMD "fanboys" while the majority just want a fast, efficient CPU at a reasonable price.

Anyone who believes that one company dominating the market is a good idea is a village idiot. The worst thing that could happen is for a vendor (like Intel) to dominate and control the market.

Another user once stated that the concept that competition forces vendors to increase efficiencies, decrease cost and improve product was a "myth". There are times when I wish I could meet this user in-person to ask them what they were smoking ...
 
VirtualLarry

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
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2timer

Golden Member
Apr 20, 2012
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ShintaiDK said:
Samsung and Apple only develops CPUs in lack of better alternative. Samsung even uses non Samsung CPUs in the wast majority of their products.
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I don't know about that, really. There is certainly a case to be made for vertical integration, at least under certain scenarios. Remember, Samsung is the world's largest manufacturer of NAND memory.

But the bigger issue is, does the smartphone market NEED an alternative? Somewhere, way far down the road, perhaps. Right now, the most downloaded apps are for Web browsing and social networks. I'm not sure Intel would go very far with the idea of "Hey, you need our chips in your smartphone to run your Facebook app with better frame rates..."
 
IntelUser2000

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,787
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2timer said:
Right now, the most downloaded apps are for Web browsing and social networks. I'm not sure Intel would go very far with the idea of "Hey, you need our chips in your smartphone to run your Facebook app with better frame rates..."
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This is the LEAST of their worries in the long term. Argument for need is a baseless one when lots of people spend money on things they don't need. If they demonstrate compelling performance and power advantages I wouldn't doubt they would be able to convince manufacturers to use theirs much easier. Of course, it won't be an overnight success, but nothing is.

The bigger issue is keeping their ASPs(which BTW is only $100 but still much higher than $20-30 on the Smartphone camp).
 
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2timer

Golden Member
Apr 20, 2012
1,803
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IntelUser2000 said:
This is the LEAST of their worries in the long term. Argument for need is a baseless one when lots of people spend money on things they don't need. If they demonstrate compelling performance and power advantages I wouldn't doubt they would be able to convince manufacturers to use theirs much easier. Of course, it won't be an overnight success, but nothing is.

The bigger issue is keeping their ASPs(which BTW is only $100 but still much higher than $20-30 on the Smartphone camp).
Click to expand...

And how far down the road do you believe Intel is to bringing *to market* a smartphone chip with those compelling power AND performance advantages?
 
RampantAndroid

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
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2timer said:
I don't know about that, really. There is certainly a case to be made for vertical integration, at least under certain scenarios. Remember, Samsung is the world's largest manufacturer of NAND memory.

But the bigger issue is, does the smartphone market NEED an alternative? Somewhere, way far down the road, perhaps. Right now, the most downloaded apps are for Web browsing and social networks. I'm not sure Intel would go very far with the idea of "Hey, you need our chips in your smartphone to run your Facebook app with better frame rates..."
Click to expand...

First off, competition is ALWAYS good. So yes, we need alternatives to drive down the cost, and create more power efficient SoC. Have you seen benchmarks on the HTC One? It's a major jump over something like the S3 and once you start talking about raising the capabilities of the phone, the whole "dock the phone and you have your desktop/laptop" becomes a discussion to have (again.) I'm all for a race for the most powerful, power efficient SoC possible. I'm not running out looking for an HTC One or even an S4, but if the extra power is made to do more than run Angry Birds and a higher framerate...then maybe I'd consider the upgrade.


paulcheung said:
Yes Wintel need to invent new OS and Programs that demand i7 8cores 16 threads to run properly. so everyone need to buy new computers. I am still using single core celron and Pentium 4 3.4gz. on most my applications. the days like 80s and 90s won't be back.
Click to expand...

Not sure if you're trolling...you do realize Win7 and Win8 actually ended up running faster and being more resource efficient? If you can run 7, you can run 8. And if you had a relatively decent system on XP that couldn't run Vista, it could probably run 7, given driver support.
 
poofyhairguy

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
ShintaiDK said:
Its the average lifespan for a smartphone till its discarded.
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Discarded is the wrong word. Most smartphone upgrades I see come because the user has broken the original phone. The rest upgrade because a subsidy is offered by the carrier with no increase in your monthly costs (nor decrease if not used), so why not?

More like planned obsolescence.
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
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I thought the original Celerons were just reject cores that were not good enough to be a PIII or whatever. So Intel sold them after disabling their full capabilities. This gave customers who wanted to buy an AMD processor something to buy that cost less but was still made by Intel. They were always at least one core or one generation behind the mainstream Intel Monopoly.

I can definitely remember Intel saying stupid things like there is no need for a 64 bit OS/Processor. This is probably why we dont have a 128 bit processor. However, Intel was talking about a 15 core XEON with 2 MB of Cache per core. Build it and they will come.
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
So how do you know what the best selling line of processors is? Is that on the world market or the USA market? Does Intel have a report with the number of processors sold last year or last month?
 
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