Really? Syria looming and other ongoing conflicts and this?

[fskimospy]

Pay starts to catch up to the civilian sector in your second enlistment.

Much also depends on your MOS

I disagree, I mean how much are 18 year olds with only a high school diploma generally making? Very little. When you count only the pay E1-E4 make very little but when you start including the free (crappy) housing, free food, free health care, etc, overall military compensation is very competitive.

I have to say that for me in 2002 as a high school dropout with no training outside of what the navy gave me, I was pulling in the equivalent of about $55,000 a year + full health benefits, life insurance, etc. Accounting for inflation that's approximately equal to $71,000 today.

So yeah, I made only marginally less as a high school dropout in the navy as I do with a masters degree now. Sure the deployments sucked, but all things considered that's pretty crazy. How many people with a GED do you think make more than $70k at age 21?

 

[BoberFett]

No vets in Congress?

Regardless of prior service, election to a national office immediately sets you back to Invertebrate status.

 

[palehorse]

I've never really understood the whole complaining about pay thing in the military. I was in for 9 years, separated as an E-5 w/ dependants. When you look at the WHOLE picture, to include benefits, it is really pretty decent.

My take home pay was around 1600 or so a check after taxes, 24 times a year, which ends up being about 1475 bi weekly. Now when I compare that to what I make now I still havent caught up to my military salary, and that is with a $50K a year job. My take home is currently $1300 bi weekly, with a $50K a year job, my take home is still about $175 less a check than what I brought home as an E-5 with dependants living off base.

When people compare military pay they often do it half-assed and don't figure in what you would actually get in terms of benefits (free health care (no copays either) is the biggest, including dependants, I work for the fed and have a great health plan, but still pay over $200 a month, plus have copays). Before people complain about military pay, you have to compare EVERYTHING involved in pay, which means the benefits. Its a package deal.

Military pay is just fine in my book, and for many that are receiving it, wouldn't make anywhere near that if they tried to in the civilian sector.

What does any of that have to do with a President interfering with the military's annual pay increase that was codified in law by Congress in 2004?

 

[ivwshane]

What does any of that have to do with a President interfering with the military's annual pay increase that was codified in law by Congress in 2004?

I guess you missed this part of the article:

The President has executive authority to notify Congress of an alternative pay adjustment affecting active duty military pay, if the President considers the adjustment necessary due to national emergency or economic concerns.*He is required to do so by September 1 before the implementation year.

If there aren't any economic concerns right now then you may want to alert the members of congress, as I recall they didn't pass a thing called sequestration because things were peachy.

 

[pcgeek11]

I've never really understood the whole complaining about pay thing in the military. I was in for 9 years, separated as an E-5 w/ dependants. When you look at the WHOLE picture, to include benefits, it is really pretty decent.

My take home pay was around 1600 or so a check after taxes, 24 times a year, which ends up being about 1475 bi weekly. Now when I compare that to what I make now I still havent caught up to my military salary, and that is with a $50K a year job. My take home is currently $1300 bi weekly, with a $50K a year job, my take home is still about $175 less a check than what I brought home as an E-5 with dependants living off base.

When people compare military pay they often do it half-assed and don't figure in what you would actually get in terms of benefits (free health care (no copays either) is the biggest, including dependants, I work for the fed and have a great health plan, but still pay over $200 a month, plus have copays). Before people complain about military pay, you have to compare EVERYTHING involved in pay, which means the benefits. Its a package deal.

Military pay is just fine in my book, and for many that are receiving it, wouldn't make anywhere near that if they tried to in the civilian sector.

You must have had one of those nice Air Force jobs that never goes anywhere you know like one of those 9 - 5 Civilian jobs.

How do you compare the hours to pay ratio ... ? When I was in the Navy and did 6 month deployments at sea, available 24 hours a day. You don't go home at the end of the day, you don't see your family or friends. You don't get to go out to dinner. On and on.... And when you are on Submarines you don't get mail or phone calls. Kind of like you didn't exist.

Bottom line is you cannot compare Military compensation to Civilian compensation. Esp when you are only talking dollar amounts. If you haven't been there, then you just do not know or understand. It is Not just another job as so many of you seem to think it is.

I also think some of you are greatly exaggerating how much you made a year while in the Military. Such as 3 years in the Navy @ 21 years old, that would probably make you an E4 Third Class Petty Officer. I highly doubt that you were making the equivalent of 55K a year in 2002. I realize that is nearly ten years after I retired and they paid more than when I retired, but I for one am not even close to believing that tripe.

 

[Nebor]

A raise less than inflation is a pay cut. From the guy that wants to send us to Syria. I realize that Odierno advocated for this pay cut, but fuck him too.

 

[EagleKeeper]

What does any of that have to do with a President interfering with the military's annual pay increase that was codified in law by Congress in 2004?

I guess you missed this part of the article:

The President has executive authority to notify Congress of an alternative pay adjustment affecting active duty military pay, if the President considers the adjustment necessary due to national emergency or economic concerns.*He is required to do so by September 1 before the implementation year.

If there aren't any economic concerns right now then you may want to alert the members of congress, as I recall they didn't pass a thing called sequestration because things were peachy.

The way the administration is throwing around money they do not seem to consider there to be a problem.

A bunch of lip service but the WH is still spending like they always have when it is of benefit to them.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I disagree, I mean how much are 18 year olds with only a high school diploma generally making? Very little. When you count only the pay E1-E4 make very little but when you start including the free (crappy) housing, free food, free health care, etc, overall military compensation is very competitive.

I have to say that for me in 2002 as a high school dropout with no training outside of what the navy gave me, I was pulling in the equivalent of about $55,000 a year + full health benefits, life insurance, etc. Accounting for inflation that's approximately equal to $71,000 today.

So yeah, I made only marginally less as a high school dropout in the navy as I do with a masters degree now. Sure the deployments sucked, but all things considered that's pretty crazy. How many people with a GED do you think make more than $70k at age 21?

Which is why I only used the word pay.

Also, things have seem to have gotten better over the past 20-30 years.

As a civilian working my way through college, I was earning about $150/wk.
As an O-1, I was paid $700/month
Engineers starting at Raytheon with the same degree were getting $18K

 

[LookBehindYou]

You must have had one of those nice Air Force jobs that never goes anywhere you know like one of those 9 - 5 Civilian jobs.

How do you compare the hours to pay ratio ... ? When I was in the Navy and did 6 month deployments at sea, available 24 hours a day. You don't go home at the end of the day, you don't see your family or friends. You don't get to go out to dinner. On and on.... And when you are on Submarines you don't get mail or phone calls. Kind of like you didn't exist.

Bottom line is you cannot compare Military compensation to Civilian compensation. Esp when you are only talking dollar amounts. If you haven't been there, then you just do not know or understand. It is Not just another job as so many of you seem to think it is.

I also think some of you are greatly exaggerating how much you made a year while in the Military. Such as 3 years in the Navy @ 21 years old, that would probably make you an E4 Third Class Petty Officer. I highly doubt that you were making the equivalent of 55K a year in 2002. I realize that is nearly ten years after I retired and they paid more than when I retired, but I for one am not even close to believing that tripe.

I had a bunch of different schedules when I was in. Started doing a 4 and 4 schedule (4 days in field, 4 days at home with the first day off being a travel day), worked the 9-5 and also a Panama schedule. The hours to pay ratio isn't a good argument, you chose to be in the Navy and I would assume that you had to have a pretty good idea you would be gone quite a bit. You could have just as easily enlisted in another branch. Thats no different than someone getting an hourly wage + overtime and someone just getting salary for whatever they work. Consider yourself salaried.

And as for the pay being exagerated, my take home was definitely around 1600 a check when I separated in 2008 as an E-5 with 9 years of service. Going by BAH, BAS, and Base Pay at the time, it was about $44500 (with about $14k being non taxable) , which is about 1854 a check before taxes, I didnt pay state taxes, didnt pay health insurance (which is about 250 a month) didn't pay for life insurance, didnt pay for dental or vision, and had the least amount of fed taxes taken out, and the BAH and BAS were not taxable. So you do the math, I ended up with a check of about $1600 twice a month, or $1475 bi-weekly. I make $50K a year now, and still don't bring home $1475 bi-weekly (roughly $1300), which brings me to my point, military pay is not bad at all when you include all of what you are getting (health insurance, BAH, BAS and Base Pay).

I don't agree with cutting pay or cutting raises. My point was simply that military pay is not as bad as people think and I never understood why people complained about it like we were on the brink of poverty or something when I was in.

 

[fskimospy]

You must have had one of those nice Air Force jobs that never goes anywhere you know like one of those 9 - 5 Civilian jobs.

How do you compare the hours to pay ratio ... ? When I was in the Navy and did 6 month deployments at sea, available 24 hours a day. You don't go home at the end of the day, you don't see your family or friends. You don't get to go out to dinner. On and on.... And when you are on Submarines you don't get mail or phone calls. Kind of like you didn't exist.

Bottom line is you cannot compare Military compensation to Civilian compensation. Esp when you are only talking dollar amounts. If you haven't been there, then you just do not know or understand. It is Not just another job as so many of you seem to think it is.

I also think some of you are greatly exaggerating how much you made a year while in the Military. Such as 3 years in the Navy @ 21 years old, that would probably make you an E4 Third Class Petty Officer. I highly doubt that you were making the equivalent of 55K a year in 2002. I realize that is nearly ten years after I retired and they paid more than when I retired, but I for one am not even close to believing that tripe.

I think you don't know what you're talking about, as I made E-5 in less than two years. Some of us are a little quicker on the uptake than others. While this was ten years ago for me as well at this point, combination of base pay, sea pay, hazardous duty pay (for the latter part of the year) and BAH. Like I said it was an approximation, but my numbers are definitely close.

Also, stop with the 'unless you were in the military you can't say anything' crap, that's just an attempt to shut down criticism. Of course people who weren't in the military can say what they want. It's so funny to me how conservatives always jump at the opportunity to impose rules and costs on other government employees but as soon as the military is mentioned you can't possibly question them.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I think you don't know what you're talking about, as I made E-5 in less than two years. Some of us are a little quicker on the uptake than others. While this was ten years ago for me as well at this point, combination of base pay, sea pay, hazardous duty pay (for the latter part of the year) and BAH. Like I said it was an approximation, but my numbers are definitely close.

Also, stop with the 'unless you were in the military you can't say anything' crap, that's just an attempt to shut down criticism. Of course people who weren't in the military can say what they want. It's so funny to me how conservatives always jump at the opportunity to impose rules and costs on other government employees but as soon as the military is mentioned you can't possibly question them.

You were the exception and/or there were exceptions

Most E-5 slots are not available until the at/during second tour(re-up).
AF, CG, Army and Marines.

Usually 2 yrs in grade is expected prior to advancement
Come out of school at as E2, tech school as an E3.

There are a limited number of E7-9 slots; It does not make sense keeping a lot of E5s locked down with no real advancement path because no E6 slots are opening up.

 

[fskimospy]

You were the exception and/or there were exceptions

Most E-5 slots are not available until the at/during second tour(re-up).
AF, CG, Army and Marines.

Usually 2 yrs in grade is expected prior to advancement
Come out of school at as E2, tech school as an E3.

There are a limited number of E7-9 slots; It does not make sense keeping a lot of E5s locked down with no real advancement path because no E6 slots are opening up.

Yes, I was the exception. Even though I started as an E-1, advanced technical fields give accelerated advancement to E-4 in the Navy (or at least did when I joined) and I got a perfect score on the advancement exam on my first try. I agree that it's not a path that is available to everyone.

In the Navy, time in rate requirements for E1-E2 and E2-E3 are 9 months. E3-E4 is 6 months, and E4-E5 is 12 months. Depending on how your advancement was timed you could theoretically hit E5 at your 1.5 year mark if it all fell right.

I made E5 shortly after arriving on my ship. I won't lie that it was pretty satisfying to go from the guy cleaning the toilets to people's boss in just a few months.

 

[pcgeek11]

I think you don't know what you're talking about, as I made E-5 in less than two years. Some of us are a little quicker on the uptake than others. While this was ten years ago for me as well at this point, combination of base pay, sea pay, hazardous duty pay (for the latter part of the year) and BAH. Like I said it was an approximation, but my numbers are definitely close.

Also, stop with the 'unless you were in the military you can't say anything' crap, that's just an attempt to shut down criticism. Of course people who weren't in the military can say what they want. It's so funny to me how conservatives always jump at the opportunity to impose rules and costs on other government employees but as soon as the military is mentioned you can't possibly question them.

Making E-5 after a " Push Button " advancement to E4 doesn't make you quicker on the uptake than others. It sounds like you are a little stuck on yourself however. Like you said though it was an approximation. Which I think is a little generous.

I never said 'unless you were in the military you can't say anything'. If you are going to quote me at least Quote Me. Here is what I said:

" If you haven't been there, then you just do not know or understand. It is Not just another job as so many of you seem to think it is. "

It has nothing to do with a Liberal or Conservative.

 

[pcgeek11]

Yes, I was the exception. Even though I started as an E-1, advanced technical fields give accelerated advancement to E-4 in the Navy (or at least did when I joined) and I got a perfect score on the advancement exam on my first try. I agree that it's not a path that is available to everyone.

In the Navy, time in rate requirements for E1-E2 and E2-E3 are 9 months. E3-E4 is 6 months, and E4-E5 is 12 months. Depending on how your advancement was timed you could theoretically hit E5 at your 1.5 year mark if it all fell right.

I made E5 shortly after arriving on my ship. I won't lie that it was pretty satisfying to go from the guy cleaning the toilets to people's boss in just a few months.

You were awarded E4 after satisfactory completion of C School for your advanced training. Then you have a year Time in Rate requirement from that date. Take the exam and make the cutoff score or better then get the advancement date assigned by the Navy ... So the time between C School Graduation and your first ship was a year or more?

No matter. The president undermining the law with a 1% pay raise is still wrong IMO.

 

[fskimospy]

Making E-5 after a " Push Button " advancement to E4 doesn't make you quicker on the uptake than others. It sounds like you are a little stuck on yourself however. Like you said though it was an approximation. Which I think is a little generous.

I never said 'unless you were in the military you can't say anything'. If you are going to quote me at least Quote Me. Here is what I said:

" If you haven't been there, then you just do not know or understand. It is Not just another job as so many of you seem to think it is. "

It has nothing to do with a Liberal or Conservative.

When i said some are quicker on the uptake I was actually talking shit to you after you basically called me a liar. But regardless, I advanced more quickly than average

 

[nextJin]

When i said some are quicker on the uptake I was actually talking shit to you after you basically called me a liar. But regardless, I advanced more quickly than average

I am not even grasping why it matters tbh

 

[fskimospy]

You were awarded E4 after satisfactory completion of C School for your advanced training. Then you have a year Time in Rate requirement from that date. Take the exam and make the cutoff score or better then get the advancement date assigned by the Navy ... So the time between C School Graduation and your first ship was a year or more?

No, it was about two weeks from C school to the ship and people aren't awarded E-4 upon completion of C school; you are advanced to E-4 after completing A school when you get your rate.

No matter. The president undermining the law with a 1% pay raise is still wrong IMO.

The president isn't undermining the law, he's using the law exactly as written and on the recommendations of the Pentagon. Considering the effects of sequestration on the rest of the federal employees I hardly think taking a 0.8% smaller pay increase is deserving of so much consternation.

If I had it my way sequestration never would have happened and the military would get their full pay increase. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be in the cards.

 

[fskimospy]

I am not even grasping why it matters tbh

Unclear to me either.

 

[shortylickens]

No vets in Congress?

Fewer vets in congress right now than ever before.
In fact many of them are admitted draft-dodgers.

 

[shortylickens]

Nuke school takes 2 whole years and everyone is automatically E-5 when they graduate.
Advanced electronics takes at least a year and everyone is automatic E-4 WHEN THEIR CYCLE COMES AROUND.


Also if you sign up 2 guys for the service you get automatic E-2 regardless of what your program is (they have to actually join, not just see the recruiter). If you nab 2 more guys you can get automatic E-3.

Plus I've seen relatively young dudes get capped at the right stage and save a shitload of time. I've known five year E-6's.
Conversely, before they introduced the high year tenure I saw men retiring as E-4's.

 

[fskimospy]

Nuke school takes 2 whole years and everyone is automatically E-5 when they graduate.
Advanced electronics takes at least a year and everyone is automatic E-4 WHEN THEIR CYCLE COMES AROUND.

Also if you sign up 2 guys for the service you get automatic E-2 regardless of what your program is (they have to actually join, not just see the recruiter). If you nab 2 more guys you can get automatic E-3.

Plus I've seen relatively young dudes get capped at the right stage and save a shitload of time. I've known five year E-6's.
Conversely, before they introduced the high year tenure I saw men retiring as E-4's.

This isn't right.

Nuke school does not have automatic advancement to E-5 (although nukes generally had pretty high advancement quotas to E-5 when I was in).

Additionally, advanced electronics advancement to E-4 is not based on the advancement cycle as per MILPERSMAN 1510-030 (pg. 8-9). You are advanced to E-4 on the 16th of the month after you hit 6 months TIR as an E-3 and meet your other requirements. (CO's OK, completion of training, etc)

But yes, the navy basically gives away E-1 through E-3. I've known a few 5 year E-6's as well as a number of less than 10 year chiefs. High year tenure was a great idea as honestly if you can't make it past E-4 after two enlistments... maybe the navy isn't for you.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I think you don't know what you're talking about, as I made E-5 in less than two years. Some of us are a little quicker on the uptake than others.

I know you didn't get out of bootcamp as an E-1 and make E-5 in two years. You were in an advanced electronics program or something similar like nuclear power where you got out of bootcamp as an E-3 and were automatically advanced to E-4 upon completion of "A" school.

 

[fskimospy]

I know you didn't get out of bootcamp as an E-1 and make E-5 in two years. You were in an advanced electronics program or something similar like nuclear power where you got out of bootcamp as an E-3 and were automatically advanced to E-4 upon completion of "A" school.

Joined as an E-1. Got out of boot camp as an E-2. In AETC you are immediately stamped an E-2 upon completion of boot camp regardless of TIR requirements.

Why is everyone trying to tell me what I did during my Navy career?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I spent 12 years in the Navy and never once did I see any person go from E-1 or E-2 to E-5 in less than 3 years without being in an advanced field.

 

[fskimospy]

I spent 12 years in the Navy and never once did I see any person go from E-1 or E-2 to E-5 in less than 3 years without being in an advanced field.

Right, I was in AECF (I don't know why I wrote AETC, which is the first stage of the AECF pipeline). It might have a new name then or now, but it was the training pipeline for surface ETs and FCs. (I was a comms/crypto ET)

Sure that path isn't available to everyone but:
1.) people can come in as an E-3 relatively easily.
2.) there are an awful lot of people in those advanced fields so it's hardly a niche.