Reaching Genetic Limits

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,009
65
91
I find it extremely hard to believe I am at my genetic limit for muscle retention. According to http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html/ somebody my size would only be able to hold ~160-174lb of muscle on their frame.

At my current measurements, I am approximately 161lb of Lean Body Mass (LBM). This means I could potentially already be at my limit, and potentially only have about 10 more pounds possible to gain for the rest of my life. Potentially even less since I am past my peak levels of testosterone.

To the other natty lifters here, do you find those tables to be true? Obviously, people with extremely gifted genetics could have more, but for the majority of men, I'm guessing those numbers are true. I guess it just depresses me a little bit knowing I'm fairly close to my max potential, if not already right at it. I don't feel or look like I am. I posted some pictures in my other thread about 3 months ago, and I definitely still have a ways to go.
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
no chart can tell you your limits.

my FFMI easily exceeds 25 and can exceeed 27 (depending on time of year). 25 is supposed to be the natural threshold and I can tell you there are better/bigger naturals out there than me.

I've had trainers tell me, "I wish I had you to show people what type of size a person can achieve naturally when they ask me how big can I get without drugs"

I know I can get leaner and increase my size. I know I'll never be a lean 220, but I know can be 205; maybe upwards 210 and ~8% -> currently 211.2 @ ~16%.

I'm just buying my time till doc says I needs the TRT (just turned 37)

if you are @ 161 LBM, it will take years to increase that to 174. You have a long way to go before you will even reach the limits of the chart/calculator you linked. the last few lbs of lean mass will be the hardest to attain.
 
Last edited:

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,973
6,334
136
One of you posted pics...impressive, IMO. I do agree that bigger is better.

However, my connective tissue told to eff off 2+ years ago. Haven't lifted since, 51 now. Sucks when your 13 y.o. says, "Daddy, both hands fit around your arm." I liked it better when, after a day visit at school, his buddies asked him who the muscle guy was.

Enjoy it while you can still do it. Do whatever you can otherwise.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,009
65
91
no chart can tell you your limits.

my FFMI easily exceeds 25 and can exceeed 27 (depending on time of year). 25 is supposed to be the natural threshold and I can tell you there are better/bigger naturals out there than me.

I've had trainers tell me, "I wish I had you to show people what type of size a person can achieve naturally when they ask me how big can I get without drugs"

I know I can get leaner and increase my size. I know I'll never be a lean 220, but I know can be 205; maybe upwards 210 and ~8% -> currently 211.2 @ ~16%.

I'm just buying my time till doc says I needs the TRT (just turned 37)

if you are @ 161 LBM, it will take years to increase that to 174. You have a long way to go before you will even reach the limits of the chart/calculator you linked. the last few lbs of lean mass will be the hardest to attain.

I want to stay natural for as long as I can. It's hard to really say where my limit is. I've seen your pics and we've had numerous private convos about fitness. I think your genetics are probably really good when it comes to physique. Have you been consistently lifting for many years? Yes, that plays the majority of the roll. It just bugs me to think I can do what I've done over the past 2.5 yrs, and push even harder, but gain 25% of the results. I know it is what it is, but it's hard to think I could potentially only have 10 pounds left to add.

Sometimes I wonder if it's more a factor of when one begins lifting. Somebody who is small and starts lifting at age 25 probably has a much lower potential than an equally sized person who started lifting at age 15.

A lot of the "older" popular guys in fitness (like mark bell) have been ripped since they were 18.


PS how tall are you again?

One of you posted pics...impressive, IMO. I do agree that bigger is better.

However, my connective tissue told to eff off 2+ years ago. Haven't lifted since, 51 now. Sucks when your 13 y.o. says, "Daddy, both hands fit around your arm." I liked it better when, after a day visit at school, his buddies asked him who the muscle guy was.

Enjoy it while you can still do it. Do whatever you can otherwise.

Thanks, maybe I have a little body dismorphia, I feel like I don't look good at all. Girls tell me though I look and feel muscular, but I don't really see it (yet).

Hopefully I don't experience any injury that keeps me out of the gym for a prolonged period of time. I'd expect my gym sessions to go down a bit when I have young kids, but it's a habit for me and my life feels off even if I miss one gym session.
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
I want to stay natural for as long as I can. It's hard to really say where my limit is. I've seen your pics and we've had numerous private convos about fitness. I think your genetics are probably really good when it comes to physique. Have you been consistently lifting for many years? Yes, that plays the majority of the roll. It just bugs me to think I can do what I've done over the past 2.5 yrs, and push even harder, but gain 25% of the results. I know it is what it is, but it's hard to think I could potentially only have 10 pounds left to add.

Sometimes I wonder if it's more a factor of when one begins lifting. Somebody who is small and starts lifting at age 25 probably has a much lower potential than an equally sized person who started lifting at age 15.

A lot of the "older" popular guys in fitness (like mark bell) have been ripped since they were 18.


PS how tall are you again?



.

I am 5'8". I am currently 211 lbs. My abs are just OK right now. I'd like to be around 202-205. That is where I feel I look my best.

Im 37 yrs old and I've been lifting for over 20 yrs. Longest I ever was away from weights was about 5 months.

I train 7 days a week, watch my food intake, i supplement, weigh myself daily... I live the lifestyle and I still don't feel I have my ducks in a row enough to make the move to vitamin S.

I look at everything I have achieved as motivation to work harder. I know what can be achieved through consistent hard work and discipline. It doesn't discourage me to realize I might not ever put on the 5 lbs of muscle I would like to.... And it sur as heck doesn't make me want to take drugs to do it.

What you need to realize is, no matter how down or discouraged you might feel about your position (build), there are people that would aspire to be where you are. It is important not to lose sight of that. At the same time you continue to look forward to where you aspire to be.
 
Last edited:

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,009
65
91
How old are you 2?
I am 27. I've been consistently in the gym pushing hard for about 2.5yrs now, but I started lifting at age 13. However, from age 13-25, I wasn't too consistent. I got fairly strong for my size, but I didn't look it. Diet was not even a thought in my mind up until I really committed to the life style.

I am 5'8". I am currently 211 lbs. My abs are just OK right now. I'd like to be around 202-205. That is where I feel I look my best.

Im 37 yrs old and I've been lifting for over 20 yrs. Longest I ever was away from weights was about 5 months.

I train 7 days a week, watch my food intake, i supplement, weigh myself daily... I live the lifestyle and I still don't feel I have my ducks in a row enough to make the move to vitamin S.

I look at everything I have achieved as motivation to work harder. I know what can be achieved through consistent hard work and discipline. It doesn't discourage me to realize I might not ever put on the 5 lbs of muscle I would like to.... And it sur as heck doesn't make me want to take drugs to do it.

What you need to realize is, no matter how down or discouraged you might feel about your position (build), there are people that would aspire to be where you are. It is important not to lose sight of that. At the same time you continue to look forward to where you aspire to be.

So at your numbers, your FFMI is currently 27.1. Arnold was around a 28-29 when he was competition ready. He was all over that vitamin S, specifically Dbol, so you being a natty and having that high of a FFMI means you've got top tier genetics. I'm sure bone structure etc plays a role in that genetic formula. I have more of that medium type build myself, so maybe I can add on more than the calculators tell me.

Have you had blood work done recently? I'd be curious to know your test numbers. I wonder if having an overall higher level of test in the blood (still in the normal range) plays a part, too.

According to my numbers, I've added 4-5lb of muscle since my bulking phase began about 3 months ago. So looks like I'm still gaining at a decent rate. My FFMI is currently 23.
 
Last edited:

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
I am 27. I've been consistently in the gym pushing hard for about 2.5yrs now, but I started lifting at age 13. However, from age 13-25, I wasn't too consistent. I got fairly strong for my size, but I didn't look it. Diet was not even a thought in my mind up until I really committed to the life style.



So at your numbers, your FFMI is currently 27.1. Arnold was around a 28-29 when he was competition ready. He was all over that vitamin S, specifically Dbol, so you being a natty and having that high of a FFMI means you've got top tier genetics. I'm sure bone structure etc plays a role in that genetic formula. I have more of that medium type build myself, so maybe I can add on more than the calculators tell me.

Have you had blood work done recently? I'd be curious to know your test numbers. I wonder if having an overall higher level of test in the blood (still in the normal range) plays a part, too.

According to my numbers, I've added 4-5lb of muscle since my bulking phase began about 3 months ago. So looks like I'm still gaining at a decent rate. My FFMI is currently 23.

to be fair, my life insurance policy states I am 5'8.5", but I think the extra .5" the nurse measured was my hair.

yes, my FFMI numbers seem high, but shouldn't be taken at face value.

I believe the FFMI calculators really should only be used in people sub 10% bodyfat, and really are accurate in people 8% and under. I think over 10% they start showing pretty optimistic numbers.

Just got off the scale this morning 209.4 after holding 211.2 for the last 6 days straight. Coming off my work season my body is starting to recomp and the next two weeks I should make some very noticeable progress. Like I said, 12% bodyfat at about 205 is where I like to be. my instagram has all sorts of pics of me at various weights from 190's to 210+


I have only had blood work done when my father was in need of a kidney back in 2010. I was 240 at that time and they weren't checking test levels ;) I am still making progress at this point, so not concerned about my levels enough to see an endo, but yes, I would think having higher end test levels along with certain other hormones is going to help you. I, no doubt, have better than average genetics. I also have a better than average work ethic, and MUCH better than average discipline, consistency, and understanding of my body.
None of that implies I am the best nor that I know everything. You could fill a warehouse or two with what I don't know. and the list is a mile and half long with people that are bigger, stronger, leaner, and overall more aesthetic than I am.


if you have only been going 2.5 yrs, you are still pretty novice. being 25, you are just getting going. the next 5 yrs you should learn a lot about your body in relation to training styles and food consumption
 
Last edited:

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,009
65
91
^ Interesting, about the body fat % thing.

Yeah I have already learned quite a bit about myself since I dialed things in.

Do you believe in the whole, ankle/wrist circumference in relation to limb size? Ie, larger wrists would be your arms could be more muscular, and larger ankles mean more leg muscle.
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
A lot of the "older" popular guys in fitness (like mark bell) have been ripped since they were 18.

mark bell was a pretty fat for some time. he was chasing the weights and didn't care how he looked. Lifting for strength is good fun and all, but in time the vast majority of lifters realize it's better to leave the gym looking and feeling better because of your training. Having sore joints and back, having a gut, sleep apnea and generally being fat isn't what weight training is all about.
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
^ Interesting, about the body fat % thing.

Yeah I have already learned quite a bit about myself since I dialed things in.

Do you believe in the whole, ankle/wrist circumference in relation to limb size? Ie, larger wrists would be your arms could be more muscular, and larger ankles mean more leg muscle.

there is obviously some correlation, but no study/chart/calculator is going to know how big you specifically can get. it's just a generalized estimator.

I guess what it comes down to is you see studies about things and you need realize most are only taking into account the casual person that is either sedentary and/or trains somewhat leisurely. Just like BMI isn't an accurate reflection of my 'obesity'. We are seeing a few more studies that state they are done on trained individuals but I think that is hard to objectively define.

I follow a few fitness youtubers. I think guys like Omar Isuf and Chris Jones are a couple of the more knowledgeable ones. You know damn well the wannabe's that follow these types of people. There are some that are dedicated and make gains, but the vast majority are 160 lb skinny fat 16-25 yr olds that "think" they train hard when they hit the gym with their bros following a chris jone's high volume arm workout video. Just look at Omar's instagram reposts of the kids that are buying his shirts for proof

Again, no chart can tell you how far you can go. I would make the argument that if you start believing the limits you are reading about are real, at that point they just might limit you.
 
Last edited:

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,009
65
91
there is obviously some correlation, but no study/chart/calculator is going to know how big you specifically can get. it's just a generalized estimator.

I guess what it comes down to is you see studies about things and you need realize most are only taking into account the casual person that is either sedentary and trains somewhat leisurely. Just like BMI isn't an accurate reflection of my 'obesity'. We are seeing a few more studies that state they are done on trained individuals but I think that is hard to objectively define.

Again, no chart can tell you how far you can go. I would make the argument that if you start believing the limits you are reading about are real, at that point they just might limit you.

Yeah, I've known for a while that BMI for me is stupid. When I was handed an "obesity is dangerous" slip by a nurse after my BMI was taken, I damn near slapped the lady.

I guess that was the whole point of the thread. To gauge if other serious (natty) lifters here feel like feel like they reached a genetic limit, and to discuss that.

PS your legs are huge. All from squats or what?
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
Yeah, I've known for a while that BMI for me is stupid. When I was handed an "obesity is dangerous" slip by a nurse after my BMI was taken, I damn near slapped the lady.

I guess that was the whole point of the thread. To gauge if other serious (natty) lifters here feel like feel like they reached a genetic limit, and to discuss that.

PS your legs are huge. All from squats or what?

I used to squat heavy, 4-5 plates once a week with some accessory work.

Now I train legs every 3rd day... my split

day 1 - legs
day 2 -chest arms
day 3 - back
day 4 - legs
day 5 - arms
day 6 - shoulders/traps - with 3 movements of chest and 3 movements of back
day 7 - legs

I have gone to higher volume with my legs. I still squat at least 2 days out 3 days that I train legs, but not the weights I did before. I will do 5-10 sets of squats, maybe getting to 315-325 for 8 or so on lower end of my rep range. Like I said, lots of volume -> goblet squats, leg press with 2-3 different foot placements, free weight hack squats, and smith machine lunges. What has really changed is that no one lift dominates my workouts any more. it isn't heavy squats and then some accessory stuff. I am taking much shorter rest periods between sets and MUCH more controlled throughout the movements. it isn't control, control down and EXPLODE up on a squat... it's control, control down, pause, control, control up, no lockout, control control down again. so much more focus on time under tension and working for a certain feeling. my workouts are all instinctual, no more I need to do 250 lbs here for 7 reps and 75 lbs for that for 5 reps.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,009
65
91
I used to squat heavy, 4-5 plates once a week with some accessory work.

Now I train legs every 3rd day... my split

day 1 - legs
day 2 -chest arms
day 3 - back
day 4 - legs
day 5 - arms
day 6 - shoulders/traps - with 3 movements of chest and 3 movements of back
day 7 - legs

I have gone to higher volume with my legs. I still squat at least 2 days out 3 days that I train legs, but not the weights I did before. I will do 5-10 sets of squats, maybe getting to 315-325 for 8 or so on lower end of my rep range. Like I said, lots of volume -> goblet squats, leg press with 2-3 different foot placements, free weight hack squats, and smith machine lunges. What has really changed is that no one lift dominates my workouts any more. it isn't heavy squats and then some accessory stuff. I am taking much shorter rest periods between sets and MUCH more controlled throughout the movements. it isn't control, control down and EXPLODE up on a squat... it's control, control down, pause, control, control up, no lockout, control control down again. so much more focus on time under tension and working for a certain feeling. my workouts are all instinctual, no more I need to do 250 lbs here for 7 reps and 75 lbs for that for 5 reps.


I think that right there, has been the biggest reason why I grew the most in the past year. I haven't really been locking out on any lifts, despite all the internet jockeys who'd probably flame me for doing so. I mean, I lock out on some lifts, like shoulder press, but that's only because I want to make sure I hit my traps on it. I've just found out that for myself, and maybe in general, high volume and high Time Under Tension is what makes my muscles respond the most.

I like your split. If I had a home gym ( I will in the future..) I would be doing this.

And oddly enough, I've been making decent gains only lifting 3x a week now. I just make sure it's a 100% focused and controlled sessions, and I do about 15 working sets per muscle. Abs 2x a week on the off days.
 

bradley

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2000
3,671
2
81
The old limit of 25ffmi for natural bodybuilders is too conservative. I believe someone can get to 27-28 naturally with great dedication, nutrition, proper exercise form and training techniques. There are just so many more options and information available to lifters now that didn't exist twenty years ago. For optimal fat loss, we even have cheap and widely available glucometers.

I even believe a lifter with optimal genetics could even reach 29-30ffmi over time. Of course, technology has also made it easy to monetize bs and callout bodybuilders for not being natural. For instance, I believe someone like Simeon Panda could obtain his results through natural means and dedicated lifting of over a decade.

Simeon Panda Worst of the Fitness Industry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnc6V4JTWC4
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
The old limit of 25ffmi for natural bodybuilders is too conservative. I believe someone can get to 27-28 naturally with great dedication, nutrition, proper exercise form and training techniques. There are just so many more options and information available to lifters now that didn't exist twenty years ago. For optimal fat loss, we even have cheap and widely available glucometers.

I even believe a lifter with optimal genetics could even reach 29-30ffmi over time. Of course, technology has also made it easy to monetize bs and callout bodybuilders for not being natural. For instance, I believe someone like Simeon Panda could obtain his results through natural means and dedicated lifting of over a decade.

Simeon Panda Worst of the Fitness Industry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnc6V4JTWC4

it's very unlikely simeon is natural, but I would agree it is possible for someone to do it. his transformation took too large of jumps from year to year. That and steroids are legal in the UK. At the end of the day, whatever he does use or doesn't use has ZERO impact on my physique or potential. Only he really knows what he uses and he is under no obligation to you or me to disclose that. It's BS if he is lying, but again, that has no impact on my life or training.

FFMI is skewed once you get above 10% like I stated earlier. it's easy to account for extra bodyfat in the calculator, but those individuals, myself included, that are let's say FFMI 27 @ 14% bodyfat will lose LBM as the get leaner. I'll see how things go for me. If I get to a point I feel like I am under 10% I'll get my bodyfat tested and see where I fall. I think you will find, at competition level conditioning (sub 8%), you will find the FFMI of 25 will hold pretty darn true
 

bradley

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2000
3,671
2
81
At the end of the day, whatever he does use or doesn't use has ZERO impact on my physique or potential. Only he really knows what he uses and he is under no obligation to you or me to disclose that. It's BS if he is lying, but again, that has no impact on my life or training.

I'm in complete agreement. As for the body fat -- even though you were dismissive of Kinobody (Greg O'Gallagher) in another thread and overlooked my actual point -- research IF. It was the first time I was able to remain below 10% bf without being diet obsessive. There are innumerable other health benefits as well.
 

iluvdeal

Golden Member
Nov 22, 1999
1,975
0
76
it's very unlikely simeon is natural, but I would agree it is possible for someone to do it. his transformation took too large of jumps from year to year. That and steroids are legal in the UK. At the end of the day, whatever he does use or doesn't use has ZERO impact on my physique or potential. Only he really knows what he uses and he is under no obligation to you or me to disclose that. It's BS if he is lying, but again, that has no impact on my life or training.

That's because you know better. There are lots of young, impressionable guys who see his videos and think they can look like him by buying his workout program and doing the same workout he does and eating what he eats. I'd say there is an obligation to be honest about everything you are doing to achieve your physique if you're selling something, it's false advertising otherwise. Of course this will never happen, dude has supplement sponsors, etc., so he has to keep up the fantasy.
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
That's because you know better. There are lots of young, impressionable guys who see his videos and think they can look like him by buying his workout program and doing the same workout he does and eating what he eats. I'd say there is an obligation to be honest about everything you are doing to achieve your physique if you're selling something, it's false advertising otherwise. Of course this will never happen, dude has supplement sponsors, etc., so he has to keep up the fantasy.

I totally understand what you are saying, and I somewhat agree.

Simeon, or anyone for that matter, has no obligation to disclose everything they do/did to get to where they are. Is it being dishonest if he completely ignores questions about his drug use? it's a gray area. simieon obviously is going head on with this accusations, is he lying? If I had to say yes or no, I say he's lying, but only he really knows.

where you lose me in the argument is that whether he takes drugs or not, doesn't make little 14 yr old tommy any more able to reach a similar level of physique with or without drugs. What Simeon has achieved is what he has achieved and is not representative of what I can achieve, what you can achieve or what my friend Bradley can achieve no matter how many drugs, hours in the gym or protein shakes any of us take.

here is a good video that really seems to put things into perspective. society has no idea what is big, what is fat, what is lean, what healthy, or as in this specific discussion, what is achievable. This speaks to these impressionable guys getting duped by the 'fake nattys'.... rather than worry about their own training, figuring out their own body/diet they worry about what drugs simeon may or may not be on.

I am old enough to remember when people talked about the monster athlete that was a whopping 6' tall and 200 lbs..... then I have people on this forum saying I am not big at 5'8" and 200+ lbs, true, I am not tall ;)

I see it in how people react to me. People to my face will tell me, "why would you want to look like that?" " You look like an ape" "I'm sorry, that's just too much".... all followed by some comment about steroids -> "I could look like that too if I took drugs" or "You didn't get that big without some help".... people hate to see other people have success at something they too are doing.

I can go on and on, but those impressionable guys have bigger problems in life than buying a diet from simeon for 99 bucks
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,009
65
91
I'm in complete agreement. As for the body fat -- even though you were dismissive of Kinobody (Greg O'Gallagher) in another thread and overlooked my actual point -- research IF. It was the first time I was able to remain below 10% bf without being diet obsessive. There are innumerable other health benefits as well.
I really like Greg. I think his videos are pretty honest and upfront, and I'm pretty sure he actually practices what he preaches. Not just IF, but the fact that he goes against the grain of the fitness industry. Ie, he rarely ever eats more than .8g/lb of body weight in protein, and has stated he's had success eating as low as .7 or .6 g/lb of body weight.

I've also adopted his training program (for the most part, I made some mods) and I'm having success with it. I feel like it fits my life style and it fits my body pretty well.

I totally understand what you are saying, and I somewhat agree.

Simeon, or anyone for that matter, has no obligation to disclose everything they do/did to get to where they are. Is it being dishonest if he completely ignores questions about his drug use? it's a gray area. simieon obviously is going head on with this accusations, is he lying? If I had to say yes or no, I say he's lying, but only he really knows.

where you lose me in the argument is that whether he takes drugs or not, doesn't make little 14 yr old tommy any more able to reach a similar level of physique with or without drugs. What Simeon has achieved is what he has achieved and is not representative of what I can achieve, what you can achieve or what my friend Bradley can achieve no matter how many drugs, hours in the gym or protein shakes any of us take.

here is a good video that really seems to put things into perspective. society has no idea what is big, what is fat, what is lean, what healthy, or as in this specific discussion, what is achievable. This speaks to these impressionable guys getting duped by the 'fake nattys'.... rather than worry about their own training, figuring out their own body/diet they worry about what drugs simeon may or may not be on.

I am old enough to remember when people talked about the monster athlete that was a whopping 6' tall and 200 lbs..... then I have people on this forum saying I am not big at 5'8" and 200+ lbs, true, I am not tall ;)

I see it in how people react to me. People to my face will tell me, "why would you want to look like that?" " You look like an ape" "I'm sorry, that's just too much".... all followed by some comment about steroids -> "I could look like that too if I took drugs" or "You didn't get that big without some help".... people hate to see other people have success at something they too are doing.

I can go on and on, but those impressionable guys have bigger problems in life than buying a diet from simeon for 99 bucks

I thought he admitted to using drugs at some point? But yeah all the haters are really just mad they don't look like him, drugs or no drugs. I personally don't care what people do, but it does bug me when they won't admit to using gear when they are questioned numerous times. I don't get the taboo about it, especially for a UK guy. It's like... Okay your job is to get huge and ripped... Wouldn't you be doing everything under the sun to get that way and continue to be that way?
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
Sponsors wouldn't like it. Future opportunities would be limited if he openely admitted to it. I think he feels threatened by the accusations which is why he is talked about all the testing he has 'passed'. He would be better off just staying quiet about it all together. IMHO its worse to be a lier and a drug user than just a drug user
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,009
65
91
^ Barbell Jeans, makes jeans for bro's who actually lift.

My legs aren't big enough yet to need them, but I'm getting there. Slim fit jeans (NOT skinny jeans) are to the point where my entire leg fills it up and there's zero room to spare in the quad.

Not really a bad problem to have in my mind.
 

blackdogdeek

Lifer
Mar 14, 2003
14,453
10
81
I've looked at Barbell Apparel but I can't afford $150 on a pair of jeans, especially when I only wear them on weekends. I already like my jeans to have some room so what ends up happening is that to feel comfortable I have to get a size much bigger in the waist.
 

Pantlegz

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2007
4,627
4
81
I'm well over their numbers in terms of lean body mass. But I break BMI and FFMI too, 35 and 30-32 respectively. I'd say McDonalds numbers are the most common numbers I've heard but bulking/cutting seems to work best for me and I'm steadily increasing at greater then a couple pounds of lean mass a year. And Barbell jeans are a lie, they're better than most but I still can't get 34" jeans to comfortable fit over my thighs/ass and 36's almost need a belt to fit comfortably. It also took them over a year to replace the 34's with 36's after waiting 9+ months for their kickstarter to begin production.