Razzle, or how we gave a carny $1400

[child of wonder]

A fool and his money....

 

[terry107]

im more curious about this than anything else.

Post 17. He got the money back.

 

[Slew Foot]

I'd die of alcohol poisoning before I drank enough to make me stupid enough to lose more than $10 to a carny.

You two are major fucking morons.

This.


"Oh look, some fatshit carny is going to give us thousands of dollars!!!!!" Herp-a-derp....

 

[Nebor]

So did your friend come through with the check?

Yup, did a wire transfer online as soon as we got back to his place. He was having a really good time losing the money, laughing hysterically the whole time. When he paid the cash back he was like, "Well, now I'll know the next time I see one of those setups."

 

[Nebor]

Or for that matter, who the fuck thinks some fat shit carny has the $8000 in cash to pony up if he did actually win?

I said that repeatedly during the game. "You don't have $4,000 to pay us if we win." The carny would say, "Sure I do, I have an ATM card just like you."

 

[kranky]

Must say I am amazed by the story. I understand getting caught up in the excitement of a carny but once things turned into three-digit numbers my brain would have been on DEFCON 5 alert no matter how drunk I might have been.

You have to respect and admire the beauty of the scam, though. The chart makes it look like you have a decent chance to win but unless you think through the distribution of totals you wouldn't see that it's hopeless. The carny cheats at first... but in your favor. When the mark starts to pay close attention, the cheating stops because it's not needed - you can't win anyway! The sooner the mark starts to watch closely, the sooner he loses. Man, that's genius.

Carnival games have been refined and developed over a very long time and are operated by skilled professionals who take pains to appear to be just "regular folks". It takes a lot of skill to cheat people without having them become suspicious or having them go Chuck Norris on you. Probably not 1 person in 100 could pull it off.

 

[highland145]

I said that repeatedly during the game. "You don't have $4,000 to pay us if we win." The carny would say, "Sure I do, I have an ATM card just like you."

Using psychology on drunks, "Hey, I DO have an ATM. I can win yet. Can you hold my game til I get back?"

Sure.

 

[Nebor]

some are more rigged than others

I think there's a difference between a couple bottles glued together and a game designed to encourage you to keep on investing more and more money, promising a chance to win it all back on your next bet, but that is by design impossible to win.

My internet research led me to a lot of interesting web pages and forums on this game. The thing is, only carnies call it "Razzle." Everyone else only knows it as Football, Ladder, Speedway, or a variety of other made up names. It makes it very difficult to find out more info about it online. But I found forums where people played this game at foreign casinos that only accepted credit cards, losing $7,000 in an hour, and then being threatened into signing their credit card slips.

No American casino allows this game, because it's virtually impossible to win.

The average game had the player doubling his bet 560 times over the average of 5,239 turns per game. One game in the simulation had the player doubling his bet 1,800 times. Even at the average of 560 doubles, the bet per roll would be $3.77 × 10^168, assuming a starting bet of $1. That is many orders of magnitutude greater than the number of atoms in the known universe

 

[Nebor]

Must say I am amazed by the story. I understand getting caught up in the excitement of a carny but once things turned into three-digit numbers my brain would have been on DEFCON 5 alert no matter how drunk I might have been.

You have to respect and admire the beauty of the scam, though. The chart makes it look like you have a decent chance to win but unless you think through the distribution of totals you wouldn't see that it's hopeless. The carny cheats at first... but in your favor. When the mark starts to pay close attention, the cheating stops because it's not needed - you can't win anyway! The sooner the mark starts to watch closely, the sooner he loses. Man, that's genius.

Carnival games have been refined and developed over a very long time and are operated by skilled professionals who take pains to appear to be just "regular folks". It takes a lot of skill to cheat people without having them become suspicious or having them go Chuck Norris on you. Probably not 1 person in 100 could pull it off.

I agree that it takes a lot of skill to pull off every part of the scam perfectly. I'd still kill him given the chance. Reading other discussions all over the internet, these people have no qualms in taking all the money that people have, leaving them unable to pay the rent, or buy food. They often take out entire families, allowing them to call friends\family to come with extra money "since they only need a few more points to win." These people are real scum of the earth types.

In our case the constant banter was "the prizes are paid for by the people that walk away." It worked exceptionally well on my friend.

 

[Gothgar]

Hilarious

Owned.

 

[Nebor]

Using psychology on drunks, "Hey, I DO have an ATM. I can win yet. Can you hold my game til I get back?"

Sure.

That's what carnies call "putting the mark on the send." They send you to get more money, pretending to "bend the rules" to keep the game open just for you. Apparently carnies love the ATM more than anyone else on earth. People no longer have to go home to get cash, and they don't have to worry about bank hours.

 

[highland145]

I agree that it takes a lot of skill to pull off every part of the scam perfectly. I'd still kill him given the chance. Reading other discussions all over the internet, these people have no qualms in taking all the money that people have, leaving them unable to pay the rent, or buy food. They often take out entire families, allowing them to call friends\family to come with extra money "since they only need a few more points to win." These people are real scum of the earth types.

Sounds like scratch offs. Just legal. "Play responsibily."

 

[HumblePie]

It takes a lot of skill to cheat people without having them become suspicious or having them go Chuck Norris on you. Probably not 1 person in 100 could pull it off.

Naw, it only takes being trained for it since you were a kid. Anyone will cheat others if that is how they are raised.

 

[Nebor]

Wow. I thought carny games were like $20 max.
And why the hell were you carrying around $1400 cash at Mardi Gras?!?!

To buy our way into balcony parties. Admission ranges from $75\person to $250\person. The most aggravating part for me was that after giving the carnie the majority of my cash, I went to the nearby ATM only to find it allowed for a maximum of $100 out at a time. So I had to sit there taking out $100 at a time again and again until it started saying transaction denied after $800. I called the bank, thinking I'd hit some kind of withdrawal limit, but it turns out I'd hit the maximum ATM fee reimbursal limit, as this machine was charging me $5 per transaction. The guy at the bank told me "you should take out more than $100 at a time." Yeah, thanks genius. Anyway I got him to turn it back on so I could replenish my cash.

So I've got like $100 in ATM fees now. Mardis gras is a cruel mistress.

 

[Nebor]

Naw, it only takes being trained for it since you were a kid. Anyone will cheat others if that is how they are raised.

Yup, carny jr. was standing behind him watching the whole time.

 

[Nebor]

Sounds like scratch offs. Just legal. "Play responsibily."

Well, except razzle games are illegal. In retrospect I'm surprised he went anywhere near the cops to complain about his marbles. If I knew then what I knew now I'd tell the cops "Theft by deception" and it'd be game over for fatass carny.

 

[highland145]

Well, except razzle games are illegal. In retrospect I'm surprised he went anywhere near the cops to complain about his marbles. If I knew then what I knew now I'd tell the cops "Theft by deception" and it'd be game over for fatass carny.

Sorry, I meant that scratch offs were legal.

Cops in N.O. may be getting a cut of the action. I hear they aren't the most upstanding around.

 

[kranky]

Naw, it only takes being trained for it since you were a kid. Anyone will cheat others if that is how they are raised.

I think it's more than that. It's not just learning the technique, you have to be able to read people and know what to say so the person in front of you keeps playing. Think about the story in the OP - the mark is not a hayseed. He's an educated guy (although drunk) and he probably knows that a carny game is not going to give up prizes easily. Yet he got fleeced for $1400, mostly because the carny knew how to manipulate him.

You need elements of being a salesman, a psychologist and a sociopath while projecting an aura of honesty and empathizing with the mark. I really don't think that ability is all that common.

 

[Old Hippie]

Hilarious

Owned.

Yep.

No big deal and lesson learned.......I can only but hope! LOL!

 

[DaveSimmons]

Penny stocks, carny games, Nigerian princes -- people want to get rich quick.

 

[Zargon]

look at all the badasses in here who have never been easily had while drunk!

 

[lxskllr]

Well, except razzle games are illegal.

"Legalities" only keep the criminal covered. They have little basis in right or wrong. The criminals write the laws.

 

[Sluggo]

So I've got like $100 in ATM fees now. Mardis gras is a cruel mistress.

Now I'm kind of curious how much money the whole trip cost you.

 

[kranky]

look at all the badasses in here who have never been easily had while drunk!

I don't think I have, honestly. Any time there's wagering being proposed my first reaction is to stay out of it. I heard this saying (from Guys and Dolls) long ago and it always stuck with me.

"Son, some day a man will walk up to you and produce a brand new deck of cards, on which the seal has not yet been broken. This man will offer to bet you that he can make the jack of clubs jump out of the deck and spit cider in your ear. But son, do not bet this man. For as sure as you are standing there, you are going to end up with an earful of cider."

This is why I don't play cards for money, go to casinos, or play carny games (other than for pure amusement). I know there are swindlers out there who have spent a lot of time perfecting their craft, and since they know more about it than I do, I don't try to beat them at their own game.

 

[BergeLSU]

I've lived in NO all my life, and I've never seen one of these. Where was it? All I have ever really seen are the shell games, tarot readers, and the ever popular "I'll bet you $100 I know where you got your shoes at" scam.