RaynorWolfcastle's Audio Face-off

[Gurck]

Ah crap I mis-voted on Peter Gabriel, thinking I was voting on Wagner... my mistake :\

 

[dderidex]

Posted a link to this comparison on:
3dSoundSurge
and
HydrogenAudio forums.

Just for curiosity sake. Maybe we'll get some more first-time posters to add opinions, here, or lurkers who've not visited ATOT in a while.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: dderidex
Posted a link to this comparison on:
3dSoundSurge
and
HydrogenAudio forums.

Just for curiosity sake. Maybe we'll get some more first-time posters to add opinions, here, or lurkers who've not visited ATOT in a while.

:thumbsup:, the problem with this poll is that lossy codecs (especially non-mp3) fairly closely approximate lossless at 320bit. The difference is very small, and requires excellent equipment to tell the difference. With my budget headphone setup (which still beats what most have) I'm finding Biggie & Billy Talent difficult, though I'm fairly certain on Wagner (haven't tried Gabriel yet). People with better equipment, such as many from audio-focused boards, are much better equipped to answer this.

 

[Kyteland]

The problem with your poll is that you wanted to do the doubleblind thing on audiophiles. Most of the people voting here won't fit that bill. I know I sure don't. All your poll is going to prove is that your average computer user can't tell the difference. The "audiophile" result will just be lost in the mix.

You really need a way to restrict who is voting.

 

[dderidex]

That would be the "I can't tell the difference" option.

 

[HonkeyDonk]

Originally posted by: Kyteland
The problem with your poll is that you wanted to do the doubleblind thing on audiophiles. Most of the people voting here won't fit that bill. I know I sure don't. All your poll is going to prove is that your average computer user can't tell the difference. The "audiophile" result will just be lost in the mix.

You really need a way to restrict who is voting.

that's why audiophiles like yourself should make a post as well as vote so that we the OP can see what you guys got right or wrong.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: HonkeyDonk

Originally posted by: Kyteland
The problem with your poll is that you wanted to do the doubleblind thing on audiophiles. Most of the people voting here won't fit that bill. I know I sure don't. All your poll is going to prove is that your average computer user can't tell the difference. The "audiophile" result will just be lost in the mix.

You really need a way to restrict who is voting.

that's why audiophiles like yourself should make a post as well as vote so that we the OP can see what you guys got right or wrong.

...

 

[Kyteland]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: HonkeyDonk
that's why audiophiles like yourself should make a post as well as vote so that we the OP can see what you guys got right or wrong.

...

I was thinking the exact same thing.

I listen to most of my music on $2 ear buds I picked up at Target.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Kyteland

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: HonkeyDonk
that's why audiophiles like yourself should make a post as well as vote so that we the OP can see what you guys got right or wrong.

...

I was thinking the exact same thing.

I listen to most of my music on $2 ear buds I picked up at Target.

I noticed it because I'm used to kids (like 0roo0roo) calling me names and assuming that an interest in sound quality = audiophiledom. Just thought I'd point it out since there are many shades of grey here, unfortunate that many on AT see everything in black & white.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

So is anyone here brave enough to post their results yet?

I'd really like to see at least one person that can nail all four of them, that would be really impressive. To be perfectly honest, using my Sony EX71SL earphones, I can't tell the difference and I already know which clip belongs to what.

edit: If no one can tell the difference consistently, that is, make a post with all four correct choices. I think I might make another poll later on with different levels of lossy compression to see where people can start telling them apart.

So I'd have something like AAC from 64kbit to 320 kbit of a couple of tracks to see whether people can differentiate those. This should be quite doable at low bitrates, but I'm very interested to see how well people differentiate 192kbps+ AAC files from the original.

 

[Excelsior]

I couldnt tell the difference on the BIG tracks. TO be honest, I doubt most people could truly tell the difference between most of these unless they have an excellent..and I mean excellent audio setup.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
So is anyone here brave enough to post their results yet?

I'd really like to see at least one person that can nail all four of them, that would be really impressive. To be perfectly honest, using my Sony EX71SL earphones, I can't tell the difference and I already know which clip belongs to what.

im going through right now, but one of the songs that ive heard that can make a difference is Pink Floyds: Shine on you crazy diamonds. the highs in it are off on MP3'.

MIKE

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: nourdmrolNMT1
im going through right now, but one of the songs that ive heard that can make a difference is Pink Floyds: Shine on you crazy diamonds. the highs in it are off on MP3'.
MIKE

Assuming your hearing is good enough to hear above 17.5 KHz or so. (I've already played with pure sine waves and I can't hear much of anything above about 16 KHz

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: nourdmrolNMT1
im going through right now, but one of the songs that ive heard that can make a difference is Pink Floyds: Shine on you crazy diamonds. the highs in it are off on MP3'.
MIKE

Assuming your hearing is good enough to hear above 17.5 KHz or so. (I've already played with pure sine waves and I can't hear much of anything above about 16 KHz

so far im going with 3 on the first set. ive listened to all of those except four.


and right now im going with 1 on the 2nd set. but they are very close. its hard trying to listen to only specific spots. i dont believe its 2 at all something with the cymbals sounds off.

pm me with those.

MIKE

 

[cjgallen]

3
3
3
1

Honestly I have no clue, I'm no audiophile, and never claimed to be one.

If I heard something slightly off in the track, I deleted it and cycled through the files until only one was left. Those are my picks.

 

[Dubb]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
So is anyone here brave enough to post their results yet?

I'd really like to see at least one person that can nail all four of them, that would be really impressive. To be perfectly honest, using my Sony EX71SL earphones, I can't tell the difference and I already know which clip belongs to what.

edit: If no one can tell the difference consistently, that is, make a post with all four correct choices. I think I might make another poll later on with different levels of lossy compression to see where people can start telling them apart.

So I'd have something like AAC from 64kbit to 320 kbit of a couple of tracks to see whether people can differentiate those. This should be quite doable at low bitrates, but I'm very interested to see how well people differentiate 192kbps+ AAC files from the original.

Like I said in the other thread, I don't think the Biggie, and maybe the talent & wagner (depending) are recorded well enough to tell the difference at 320. I've only DL'ed the gabriel so far, and I think I've got that, but I'm going to give it a second round in a bit, just to be sure.

I'll post a best guess for all four, but I may have to do a fair bit of guessing in some places. I'd be highly surprised if somebody using even the best system could nail all four, just due to the sources.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: Dubb

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
So is anyone here brave enough to post their results yet?

I'd really like to see at least one person that can nail all four of them, that would be really impressive. To be perfectly honest, using my Sony EX71SL earphones, I can't tell the difference and I already know which clip belongs to what.

edit: If no one can tell the difference consistently, that is, make a post with all four correct choices. I think I might make another poll later on with different levels of lossy compression to see where people can start telling them apart.

So I'd have something like AAC from 64kbit to 320 kbit of a couple of tracks to see whether people can differentiate those. This should be quite doable at low bitrates, but I'm very interested to see how well people differentiate 192kbps+ AAC files from the original.

Like I said in the other thread, I don't think the Biggie, and maybe the talent & wagner (depending) are recorded well enough to tell the difference at 320. I've only DL'ed the gabriel so far, and I think I've got that, but I'm going to give it a second round in a bit, just to be sure.

I'll post a best guess for all four, but I may have to do a fair bit of guessing in some places. I'd be highly surprised if somebody using even the best system could nail all four, just due to the sources.

thats one of the things is that you have to figure out what bitrate they were originally recorded at. but im not using my headphones right now, only the speakers w/ a crossover that was ment for off-axis listening not straight on. and a marantz 1120.

MIKE

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: nourdmrolNMT1
so far im going with 3 on the first set. ive listened to all of those except four.

and right now im going with 1 on the 2nd set. but they are very close. its hard trying to listen to only specific spots. i dont believe its 2 at all something with the cymbals sounds off.

pm me with those.

MIKE

Sorry bud, no results until tomorrow, no exceptions.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: nourdmrolNMT1
so far im going with 3 on the first set. ive listened to all of those except four.

and right now im going with 1 on the 2nd set. but they are very close. its hard trying to listen to only specific spots. i dont believe its 2 at all something with the cymbals sounds off.

pm me with those.

MIKE

Sorry bud, no results until tomorrow, no exceptions.

sh1t i voted wrong on the second one.

MIKE

 

[Muadib]

Bah!!! This whole thing is flawed because 99.99% of your group is using PC speakers to do their listening. 99.99% of PC speakers are crap!

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: nourdmrolNMT1
sh1t i voted wrong on the second one.
MIKE

You can change it all you want until I post the results

 

[Dubb]

Originally posted by: nourdmrolNMT1

Originally posted by: Dubb

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
So is anyone here brave enough to post their results yet?

I'd really like to see at least one person that can nail all four of them, that would be really impressive. To be perfectly honest, using my Sony EX71SL earphones, I can't tell the difference and I already know which clip belongs to what.

edit: If no one can tell the difference consistently, that is, make a post with all four correct choices. I think I might make another poll later on with different levels of lossy compression to see where people can start telling them apart.

So I'd have something like AAC from 64kbit to 320 kbit of a couple of tracks to see whether people can differentiate those. This should be quite doable at low bitrates, but I'm very interested to see how well people differentiate 192kbps+ AAC files from the original.

Like I said in the other thread, I don't think the Biggie, and maybe the talent & wagner (depending) are recorded well enough to tell the difference at 320. I've only DL'ed the gabriel so far, and I think I've got that, but I'm going to give it a second round in a bit, just to be sure.

I'll post a best guess for all four, but I may have to do a fair bit of guessing in some places. I'd be highly surprised if somebody using even the best system could nail all four, just due to the sources.

thats one of the things is that you have to figure out what bitrate they were originally recorded at. but im not using my headphones right now, only the speakers w/ a crossover that was ment for off-axis listening not straight on. and a marantz 1120.

MIKE

you read that wrong.

I'm saying the ORIGINAL CDs were not recorded well enough for a good compressor to make a noticable difference. anything mastered for radio = not good. alot of classical cds are pretty piss poor transfers of old tapes. so it's crap in, crap out by the time it gets to the compressor.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: Dubb
you read that wrong.

I'm saying the ORIGINAL CDs were not recorded well enough for a good compressor to make a noticable difference. anything mastered for radio = not good. alot of classical cds are pretty piss poor transfers of old tapes. so it's crap in, crap out by the time it gets to the compressor.

Except that you should still be able to hear any compression artifacts regardless of source since you actually have the source

 

[Dubb]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: Dubb
you read that wrong.

I'm saying the ORIGINAL CDs were not recorded well enough for a good compressor to make a noticable difference. anything mastered for radio = not good. alot of classical cds are pretty piss poor transfers of old tapes. so it's crap in, crap out by the time it gets to the compressor.

Except that you should still be able to hear any compression artifacts regardless of source since you actually have the source

but if the cd is so muddy/overblown to start with, compression artifacts just get lost in the mess (at 320 at least). if quality that that the compressor removes isn't there to start with, how do you know that it's gone?

(a gross oversimplification, but you get the point)

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Kyteland
The problem with your poll is that you wanted to do the doubleblind thing on audiophiles. Most of the people voting here won't fit that bill. I know I sure don't. All your poll is going to prove is that your average computer user can't tell the difference. The "audiophile" result will just be lost in the mix.

You really need a way to restrict who is voting.

with crap speakers and an average soundcard - who cares?
:roll:

this is not a "real test" of anything
:thumbsdown: