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Ray Lewis retiring.

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DukeN said:
Oh look, sports fans soaking up PR response from murderer's damage control team.

Let's put him on an even bigger pedestal.
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Perhaps you can tell us how much actual evidence there is that Lewis killed anyone?

Here's a hint. Prosecutors don't reduce first degree murder charges to misdemeanor pleas unless they have absolutely jack shit to prove the guy did it. The only case against Lewis was that he was in the vicinity of the crime and they couldn't find the suit he was wearing that night.
 
SunnyD said:
That would be a huge waste of his talents. But a wise decision for his pocketbook (obviously).

Given his love/passion for football though, I could definitely see him being a DC or coach at some level in the NFL without question.

Anyway, ESPN is reporting that Lewis has a multi-year deal with them inked already. Oh well.
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A big part of what he wanted was schedule flexibility so he could travel to Miami to see his son play. His ESPN job will be a much cushier gig than any kind of coaching position.
 
ichy said:
Perhaps you can tell us how much actual evidence there is that Lewis killed anyone?

Here's a hint. Prosecutors don't reduce first degree murder charges to misdemeanor pleas unless they have absolutely jack shit to prove the guy did it. The only case against Lewis was that he was in the vicinity of the crime and they couldn't find the suit he was wearing that night.
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iirc he lied to the police.
 
Yeah, misdemeanor obstruction of justice for giving "misleading" statements to the police was what he ended up pleading guilty to.
 
1sikbITCH said:
Thanks for agreeing with me. Planning to drive home drunk is not the same as buying a house and hiring gangs of thugs to start bringing people to your house so you can murder them in the back yard, and then continue doing that forever until someone can finally stop you.

All of this is what Vick did with the dogs. If he had done it to people he'd have been gone for good. He did it to dogs instead so he got off with a slap on the wrist.
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You still seem to think an animal life (or lives) are greater than a human life. They aren't. Vick didn't get a slap on the wrist. Go join PETA.
 
ichy said:
A big part of what he wanted was schedule flexibility so he could travel to Miami to see his son play. His ESPN job will be a much cushier gig than any kind of coaching position.
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True. That thought did cross my mind too - assuming he can stomach the "public" demands of the job for several years, it nets him a nice paycheck to take care of his family, and then when they're all on their way and he's a little more mature (I don't mean that in any disrepectful way - just meant age-wise), he can probably step back into the NFL as a coach at will should he so desire.

I just hope that if he goes that path he doesn't lose that "edge" that made him a great player and team leader/coach on the field before he makes it back to the sidelines.
 
SP33Demon said:
I love it when nerds try to talk sports. Ray Lewis not only crushes LT in longevity for AP (Approximate Value), but LT's best season (1989) was only equal to Ray's 4th and 5th statistical best seasons. The numbers don't lie.
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You can throw me numbers and ESPN votes all day. I don't care. I watched LT play. The entire game was focused around him. People forget quickly the kind of impact player he was. Ray Lewis is a terrific player, but he was not the kind of impact player LT was. The game was not focused around Lewis.
 
ThePresence said:
You can throw me numbers and ESPN votes all day. I don't care. I watched LT play. The entire game was focused around him. People forget quickly the kind of impact player he was. Ray Lewis is a terrific player, but he was not the kind of impact player LT was. The game was not focused around Lewis.
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I know. He's using a vote done on the day of him announcing his retirement and most of the voters probably never watched LT. In regards to pure stats, Lewis played middle linebacker, of course he'll have better stats. But Lewis did not change the game or have the impact that LT did.

http://sportige.com/non-quarterbacks-who-won-the-nfl-mvp-01-2013/

Lawrence Taylor, 1986 - The last defensive player to win the MVP and is often voted as the greatest defensive player in the history of the NFL. He was a 10 time Pro Bowler, 10 time All-Pro member and two time Super Bowl champion during his 13 years with the New York Giants. John Madden said about him: Lawrence Taylor, defensively, has had as big an impact as any player I’ve ever seen. He changed the way defense is played, the way pass-rushing is played, the way linebackers play and the way offenses block linebackers.
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ThePresence said:
You can throw me numbers and ESPN votes all day. I don't care. I watched LT play. The entire game was focused around him. People forget quickly the kind of impact player he was. Ray Lewis is a terrific player, but he was not the kind of impact player LT was. The game was not focused around Lewis.
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Yes, let's just discount those silly numbers because I'm a New Yorker, and by golly, LT was the greatest I've seen.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/59162/ray-lewis-value-at-lb-virtually-unmatched

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, only Jack Ham has more takeaways than Ray Lewis (53 v 51) by a linebacker in NFL history. What is the function of a defender? To tackle and force turnovers. LT was good at tackling the QB, but not at a record-breaking level.

LT isn't even in the top 20 in LB takeaways, and 3 FF's for an entire career (they all came in his final year) is pathetic for a defensive player. Yes, he was a sack machine but not even the best one in history (Reggie). What statistical records does he hold, and did he hold any when he retired? None. He's not the greatest ever because he never broke any records. You can't dub somebody the greatest of all time when they aren't the greatest at anything. Ray Lewis broke records. Fastest to the 20/20 club, fastest to the 30/30 club, and only 40/30 club member. That's revolutionizing the game with a physical specimen that has never been seen before and stamping the game with a record that could stand for generations.

Look at this list:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/sacks_career.htm

LT is 9th all time in sacks, his specialization. While he was a physical specimen that the NFL hadn't seen before, he didn't set any statistical records despite "all he did to change the game". That isn't dominance, you need longevity and consistent high level of play to break records and LT was a quick flash in the pan. Ray Lewis is a flashlight whose battery lasted much longer and continued to set unprecedented football records. That is the difference, mental and physical preparation and nobody outworked Lewis for 16 years so he could continue to smash that record and possibly break Jack Ham's LB takeaway record in the next month. Sacks, Interceptions, and Forced Fumbles are all that matters on defense and nobody did all of them better in one package than Ray Lewis. Yet many have sacked better than LT, single season and career wise. What does this tell you?
 
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well London Fletcher has similar stats compared to Ray Lewis but he doesn't get nearly as much hype as Ray Lewis does. It's not all about stats..
 
dbk said:
well London Fletcher has similar stats compared to Ray Lewis but he doesn't get nearly as much hype as Ray Lewis does. It's not all about stats..
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That's the curse of being a good player on a historically bad team.
 
Ray is probably the best all around defensive player to ever play the game. Definitely the best all around linebacker. He put up the stats and ran a complex defense for 17 years. Take a look at how many defensive coaches got head coaching gigs simply because of Ray Lewis.
 
dbk said:
well London Fletcher has similar stats compared to Ray Lewis but he doesn't get nearly as much hype as Ray Lewis does. It's not all about stats..
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No he doesn't. 15xx tackles vs 13xx? GTFOOH, that's about 200+ less in way more games. Can you do math?

Games played/tackles/INT/sacks
Lewis - 228/1573/31/41.5
Fletcher - 242/1320/23/37

Fletcher averages about 90 tackles a year, which means he'd need to play 3 more seasons at his current level to catch Lewis and avg 3 interceptions to get past the 30 mark. Even if he could do this, how many more games would it take him, 48? He's already played just about one more season and is still way off statistically, aside from sacks. Even if he could achieve this goal, he'd just be doing what Ray already did, faster.

If Fletcher could somehow defy age and get to the 50/30 mark, that would be cool but then he's just the Cal Ripken of football (ironman) because it took him forever to do it.
 
SP33Demon said:
No he doesn't. 15xx tackles vs 13xx? GTFOOH, that's about 200+ less in way more games. Can you do math?

Games played/tackles/INT/sacks
Lewis - 228/1573/31/41.5
Fletcher - 242/1320/23/37
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Some of your numbers are off, 5% more isn't "way more" by any reasonable definition, and the numbers aren't as far apart if you look at combined tackles.

Lewis is still the better player, but he's not as far ahead as you're implying.
 
JD50 said:
Ray is probably the best all around defensive player to ever play the game.
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LT (they changed the rules because of him, 12 times), Darrell Green (greatest CB), Joe Green (scariest motherfucker to ever wear a football uniform), Singletary (smartest LB in history, 147 IQ), Deacon Jones (evil incarnate and recorded >50 sacks in just two seasons).
 
jagec said:
Some of your numbers are off, 5% more isn't "way more" by any reasonable definition, and the numbers aren't as far apart if you look at combined tackles.

Lewis is still the better player, but he's not as far ahead as you're implying.
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Actually he is. Assuming Fletcher can
maintain his high level of play for another 3 years just to catch Lewis statistically, that's roughly 4 more seasons. Or 26.6% more playing time over the course of his career (4/15). I could understand if it was one statistical season apart like Montana/Young but 4 seasons is not close. The only stat he's 1 great season off from are sacks but you cant cherry pick one or the other, it's the total package which includes being the only 30/40 member in history. Additionally, you cannot compare combined tackles b/c solo is a better measure of instinct/speed (get to the ball carrier first) and strength (drop him on 1st contact without teammates' help). To which the smaller, slower Fletcher cannot compare to Lewis.
 
SP33Demon said:
Yes, let's just discount those silly numbers because I'm a New Yorker, and by golly, LT was the greatest I've seen.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/59162/ray-lewis-value-at-lb-virtually-unmatched

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, only Jack Ham has more takeaways than Ray Lewis (53 v 51) by a linebacker in NFL history. What is the function of a defender? To tackle and force turnovers. LT was good at tackling the QB, but not at a record-breaking level.

LT isn't even in the top 20 in LB takeaways, and 3 FF's for an entire career (they all came in his final year) is pathetic for a defensive player. Yes, he was a sack machine but not even the best one in history (Reggie). What statistical records does he hold, and did he hold any when he retired? None. He's not the greatest ever because he never broke any records. You can't dub somebody the greatest of all time when they aren't the greatest at anything. Ray Lewis broke records. Fastest to the 20/20 club, fastest to the 30/30 club, and only 40/30 club member. That's revolutionizing the game with a physical specimen that has never been seen before and stamping the game with a record that could stand for generations.

Look at this list:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/sacks_career.htm

LT is 9th all time in sacks, his specialization. While he was a physical specimen that the NFL hadn't seen before, he didn't set any statistical records despite "all he did to change the game". That isn't dominance, you need longevity and consistent high level of play to break records and LT was a quick flash in the pan. Ray Lewis is a flashlight whose battery lasted much longer and continued to set unprecedented football records. That is the difference, mental and physical preparation and nobody outworked Lewis for 16 years so he could continue to smash that record and possibly break Jack Ham's LB takeaway record in the next month. Sacks, Interceptions, and Forced Fumbles are all that matters on defense and nobody did all of them better in one package than Ray Lewis. Yet many have sacked better than LT, single season and career wise. What does this tell you?
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might be the dumbest post I've read so far.
 
IAteYourMother said:
might be the dumbest post I've read so far.
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I agree. When the other team is double-triple teaming you, running the offense the opposite way to avoid you, the league changes the rules to negatively impact one, etc. one's stats aren't going to reflect that person's impact. But fortunately, many recognized it and named LT NFL MVP.

Based on stats, I think 90% of defensive players are better than Vince Wilfork.
 
ichy said:
Perhaps you can tell us how much actual evidence there is that Lewis killed anyone?

Here's a hint. Prosecutors don't reduce first degree murder charges to misdemeanor pleas unless they have absolutely jack shit to prove the guy did it. The only case against Lewis was that he was in the vicinity of the crime and they couldn't find the suit he was wearing that night.
Click to expand...

Prosecutor went after the other two guys and lost the case after only 5 hours of jury deliberation.
 
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