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Ray Lewis retiring.

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I agree on the Vick thing but one of the funny things was that he got 23 months in prison for his role in the dog fighting ring. Then along comes Donte Stallworth not too long after that and he gets jail time for a DUI where he hit and killed a man. He got 30 days in jail. Leonard Little also hit and killed someone while driving drunk and only got 90 days in jail.

These are all terrible things but something is wrong when sentences for killing someone is far less than a dog fighting ring.

You are ignoring intent.

Mike Vick intentionally financed and helped mastermind a criminal enterprise that for several years systematically slaughtered animals for profit. He also personally slit the throat of several animals. Definite pattern of behavior and no chance to say whoops I fucked up.

Donte Stallworth made a huge error and got behind the wheel drunk. Whoops I fucked up. The family of the victim told the judge to go easy, and they did.

You also singled out particular instances out of millions of examples in order to convince us that Vick isn't such a bad guy. We all know what kind of guy he is. You don't become that monster overnight, and you don't turn it off with the flick of a switch.
He cleaned up his image; that's it.

Edit - Here is a guy who got life in prison for DWI's and he never even killed anybody. I guess DWI penalties are too harsh.
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...-life-in-prison-for-habitual-dwi-convictions/
 
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You are ignoring intent.

Mike Vick intentionally financed and helped mastermind a criminal enterprise that systematically slaughtered animals for profit. He also personally slit the throat of several animals. Definite pattern of behavior and no chance to say whoops I fucked up.

Donte Stallworth made a huge error and got behind the wheel drunk. Whoops I fucked up. The family of the victim told the judge to go easy, and they did.

Wow, I sure hope you mistyped something here. Do you honestly think choosing to get behind the wheel drunk and killing someone is just a whoopsie? My bad, lol? 😵

KT
 
Killing someone while driving drunk isn't just an error. It's a deliberate decision to act with callous disregard for other people's lives.
 
You are ignoring intent.

Mike Vick intentionally financed and helped mastermind a criminal enterprise that for several years systematically slaughtered animals for profit. He also personally slit the throat of several animals. Definite pattern of behavior and no chance to say whoops I fucked up.

Donte Stallworth made a huge error and got behind the wheel drunk. Whoops I fucked up. The family of the victim told the judge to go easy, and they did.

You also singled out particular instances out of millions of examples in order to convince us that Vick isn't such a bad guy. We all know what kind of guy he is. You don't become that monster overnight, and you don't turn it off with the flick of a switch.
He cleaned up his image; that's it.

Edit - Here is a guy who got life in prison for DWI's and he never even killed anybody. I guess DWI penalties are too harsh.
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...-life-in-prison-for-habitual-dwi-convictions/

I'm not saying that Vick isn't a bad guy, because he is and there is no excuse for what he did. I am also saying that other NFL players have done far worse and gotten off much easier because of their status as players. In Vick's case, they wanted to make an example out of him and he deserved it. I also think that the same treatment should have been given to the other players for drinking drunk.
 
Wow, I sure hope you mistyped something here. Do you honestly think choosing to get behind the wheel drunk and killing someone is just a whoopsie? My bad, lol? 😵

KT

Of course not. But this is the internet so it's ok 😀

Also the point was he made a mistake. He didn't sit down and plan it like the other guy.
 
The greatest defensive player of the modern era and arguably all time (although comparing eras is silly). He could beat you not only physically, but mentally as a natural born leader who inspired fear in opponents. Just a tackling machine.

Did LT play in the modern era? Honestly don't know if many teams devised their offense game plan to deal with/defend Ray Lewis.
 
Of course not. But this is the internet so it's ok 😀

Also the point was he made a mistake. He didn't sit down and plan it like the other guy.
His plan was, Oh I can totally drive. Just because he didn't break out team meetings, make a note of drive self home drunk doesn't mean he didn't plan it.

What he DIDN'T plan was a safe ride home.
 
Someone should show him the video of Theismann and LT.

I picture him as someone with too much pride to hang around. Clearly he doesn't throw the long ball like he used to. And he's got the two kids, iirc.

Elway did it right. Go out with the Super Bowl trophy in your hands.

Then become the GM when Belichek retires. Or not.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story...atriots-tom-brady-now-35-wants-play-long-time

Brady said after practice Sunday that he has a lot of football left in him, and that both Flutie and Testaverde were great teammates and that he learned a great deal from both.

"I'm a long ways from 42," Brady reminded reporters. "Hopefully, I'm still talking to you guys when I'm 42."
I love Brady, but he's not going to know it when he can't play any more. Someone's going to have to make him stop.

Also, he can still throw the deep ball perfectly well. He just doesn't have an in-prime Randy Moss to throw to anymore. The deep ball isn't what's going to go. It'll be the pocket presence and accuracy on quick passes that will fade first.
 
Dude, you should get out of your cave more - are you kidding me? Watch ESPN or something, it's front page.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8806466
0:43, 1:30 two different former NFL players.

Yep and was no LT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Taylor

Taylor was a disruptive force at outside linebacker, and is credited with changing the pass rushing schemes, offensive line play, and offensive formations used in the NFL.

Impact on the NFL

Lawrence Taylor, defensively, has had as big an impact as any player I've ever seen. He changed the way defense is played, the way pass-rushing is played, the way linebackers play and the way offenses block linebackers.

Taylor is considered one of the best players to ever play in the NFL, and has been ranked as the top defensive player in league history by news outlets, media members, former players and coaches.[1][2][3] He has also been described as one of the most "feared" and "intimidating" players in NFL history.[1][83] Taylor's explosive speed and power is credited with changing the position of outside linebacker from a "read and react" type of position to a more attacking, aggressive position.[84]

Redskins coach Joe Gibbs developed the two tight end offense and the position of h-back to prevent Taylor from blitzing into the backfield unhindered.[51][85] "We had to try in some way have a special game plan just for Lawrence Taylor. Now you didn't do that very often in this league but I think he's one person that we learned the lesson the hard way. We lost ball games."[51][86] His skills changed the way offensive coaches blocked linebackers. In the late '70s and early '80s, a blitzing linebacker was picked up by a running back. However, these players were no match for Taylor.[87] The tactic employed by Bill Walsh in the 1982 playoffs, using an offensive guard to block Taylor, was copied around the league. However, this left a hole in pass protection that a blitzing middle linebacker could exploit. Later, Walsh and other coaches began using offensive tackles to block Taylor. Later it became common for offensive linemen to pick up blitzing linebackers. In addition to the changes in offensive schemes Taylor influenced, he also introduced new defensive techniques to the game such as chopping the ball out of the quarterback's hands rather than tackling him.[88]
 
Well isn't LT considered to be like the greatest defensive player of all time? Lewis is nowhere close to his level.

KT
 
LT could outrun all but the fastest running backs and overwhelm guards and tackles with his strength.
 
Well isn't LT considered to be like the greatest defensive player of all time? Lewis is nowhere close to his level.

KT

I love it when nerds try to talk sports. Ray Lewis not only crushes LT in longevity for AP (Approximate Value), but LT's best season (1989) was only equal to Ray's 4th and 5th statistical best seasons. The numbers don't lie.

Ray Lewis
Approximate Value
1999 NFL 19 (5)
2000 NFL 23 (1/14)*
2001 NFL 20 (3/77)
2003 NFL 20 (2/77)
2004 NFL 18 (5)
2008 NFL 19 (1)
Active 218 (2nd behind Manning at 220)
Career 218 (7th all time, only defensive player ahead is Reggie White @228)
Note: * means led the NFL in value that year

Approximate Value (Weighted)
Active 158 (2nd only behind Manning at 159)
Career 158 (4th all time, only behind Manning, Rice, and R.White at 159)


Lawrence Taylor
Approximate Value
1981 NFL 17 (4)
1983 NFL 17 (5)
1985 NFL 17 (8)
1986 NFL 17 (9)
1989 NFL 19 (2)
1990 NFL 17 (8)
Career 182 (18)

Approximate Value (Weighted)
Career 137 (16)

LT never, ever led the NFL in Approximate Value, even in his best statistical year against the peers of his era. Ray? Twice, and as recent as 2008.

Maybe you were still in diapers in 2003 when this coaches poll came out for most dominating player in the NFL?
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/6427963

The total final voting:

Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis: 9½.
Rams running back Marshall Faulk: 2.
Packers quarterback Brett Favre: 2.

Bears linebacker Brian Urlacher: 1½.
Bucs defensive tackle Warren Sapp: 1 1/3.
Bucs linebacker Derrick Brooks: 1 1/3.
Vikings wide receiver Randy Moss: 1.
49ers wide receiver Terrell Owens: 1.
Titans defensive end Jevon Kearse: 1.
Falcons quarterback Michael Vick: 1.
Chiefs running back Priest Holmes: ½.
Falcons linebacker Keith Brooking: ½.
Bucs defensive end Simeon Rice: 1/3.

Reggie White v Ray Lewis? You can definitely can make a case. LT? No fcking way. Not even the best player of his era, Reggie was and Ray took over right when Reggie came out of his prime. Hell, when coaches give you half the votes in the NFL as the most dominating player over any offensive player, that is how you know someone is great.

Man, that's not even counting Lewis' motivational shit on the field as the leader of his team. Where the fuck are LT's leadership videos on youtube? They don't exist, unless it involved buying drugs. Lewis has inspired 1000X more people than you'll even meet in your life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcSBw76_tpk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn6m2DpQpQA
 
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ESPN voters say yes, Ray Lewis is the greatest defensive player ever (57-43% at this time).
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/62536/ray-lewis-greatest-defensive-player-ever

Some will argue for Lawrence Taylor, Dick Butkus, Reggie White or Ronnie Lott. What makes Lewis stand above all of them is how he dominated in every facet. While Taylor changed the game in the 1980s, Lewis did the same in this generation with his range, strength, speed and intelligence.

Is Ray Lewis the greatest defensive player in NFL history?

57%
Yes
43%
No
(Total votes: 7,408)


When it came to the running game, Lewis was fast enough to chase down running backs and physical enough to make them pay when he did. In Lewis' first 16 seasons, Baltimore never allowed more than 3.9 yards per carry.

When it came to the passing game, he was explosive enough to rush the passer and athletic enough to cover running backs and tight ends. He's the only player in NFL history to amass 40 sacks and 30 interceptions.

Lewis isn't simply the best defensive player because of his play. What made Lewis special was how he elevated those around him and consistently made the Ravens the most feared defense. Since 1999, in the 11 seasons in which Lewis has played at least 12 games, the Ravens' defense ranked in the top 10 every year, including eight times in the top three. Teams have signed Lewis' teammates to big contracts (Duane Starks, Ed Hartwell, Sam Adams, Bart Scott) in trying to build their defenses, but few have ever played as they did beside him.

It's more than stats that make Lewis the best ever. It's the jaw-dropping memories.

In 1999, Lewis ran down San Diego slot receiver Eric Metcalf from behind from the far side of the field after Metcalf caught a 20-yard pass over the middle in full stride. In the 2000 playoffs, Lewis grabbed a bobbled pass to Eddie George, ripped his leg away from the Titans running back and ran in the interception for the score. In 2008, Lewis ran to the hole and hit Rashard Mendenhall so hard that he fractured the shoulder of the Steelers running back. In 2009, Lewis closed out a win in San Diego with a spectacular fourth-down tackle in which he ran through the line and hit Darren Sproles as soon as he took the handoff.

Lewis beat teams because he was stronger than them. He beat teams because he was faster. And, by the time he reached 30, he beat them by using his head, studying film to the point where he called out the offense's play before the ball was snapped.

Lewis has to edge out Reggie White because of how he led his iconic defense for so long. Reggie's Gang Green was fearsome as hell, but only lasted 3 years (89-91) and arguably had a better cast (Jerome Brown/Clyde Simmons/Seth Joyner/Eric Allen/Wes Hopkins/Andre Waters) than what Lewis had to work with for his defense which was still dominant for well over a decade.
 
His plan was, Oh I can totally drive. Just because he didn't break out team meetings, make a note of drive self home drunk doesn't mean he didn't plan it.

What he DIDN'T plan was a safe ride home.

Thanks for agreeing with me. Planning to drive home drunk is not the same as buying a house and hiring gangs of thugs to start bringing people to your house so you can murder them in the back yard, and then continue doing that forever until someone can finally stop you.

All of this is what Vick did with the dogs. If he had done it to people he'd have been gone for good. He did it to dogs instead so he got off with a slap on the wrist.
 
You are ignoring intent.

Mike Vick intentionally financed and helped mastermind a criminal enterprise that for several years systematically slaughtered animals for profit. He also personally slit the throat of several animals. Definite pattern of behavior and no chance to say whoops I fucked up.

Donte Stallworth made a huge error and got behind the wheel drunk. Whoops I fucked up. The family of the victim told the judge to go easy, and they did.

You also singled out particular instances out of millions of examples in order to convince us that Vick isn't such a bad guy. We all know what kind of guy he is. You don't become that monster overnight, and you don't turn it off with the flick of a switch.
He cleaned up his image; that's it.

Edit - Here is a guy who got life in prison for DWI's and he never even killed anybody. I guess DWI penalties are too harsh.
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...-life-in-prison-for-habitual-dwi-convictions/

That's the way DUI laws in the USA SHOULD be written...on the 3rd DUI...life in prison.
 
I think he'll have a few choices about which TV network he wants to work for.

That would be a huge waste of his talents. But a wise decision for his pocketbook (obviously).

Given his love/passion for football though, I could definitely see him being a DC or coach at some level in the NFL without question.

Anyway, ESPN is reporting that Lewis has a multi-year deal with them inked already. Oh well.
 
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If Lewis doesn't find an outlet for his energy after football he is going to end up a tragic figure.
 
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