rate this performance rig - sticky questions now answered

[mfenn]

Ok, I looked at it again. Basically, I'm paying a considerable premium for the Seasonic (2X), the Kingston RAM, and the extra Raptor HDD, not to mention the motherboard is double the cost as well (but I just like Intel build quality and Intel ethernet controllers that much more - go ahead and call me a fanboy).

Basically, you're a fanboy. :awe:

But seriously, you're getting more expensive parts for no logical reason. You've got an emotional attachment to certain parts and that is driving your decision making processes.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to use logic to reverse a decision that somebody made with emotion. They have to realize for themselves that they made the decision based on emotion and then approach the topic from a logical point of view.

If you don't want to do that, that's totally fine with me. If you do want to have an honest discussion of the merits, feel free to post what you see as the advantages and the reasoning behind your decisions.

 

[Torn Mind]

Driver updates might have improved the 7950's performance, but I'm just extrapolating from the improvements on the 7970's performance.

 

[DominionSeraph]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($189.99 @ Memory Express)
Motherboard: ASRock B75 PRO3-M Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($79.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix sport 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($45.55 @ DirectCanada)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix sport 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($45.55 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.79 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Western Digital VelociRaptor 500GB 3.5" 10000RPM Internal Hard Drive ($159.99 @ Memory Express)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($178.20 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB Video Card ($279.00 @ Canada Computers)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ Memory Express)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($17.79 @ DirectCanada)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.45 @ DirectCanada)
Total: $1355.28
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-05 23:01 EST-0500)

 

[Turbonium]

Basically, you're a fanboy. :awe:

But seriously, you're getting more expensive parts for no logical reason. You've got an emotional attachment to certain parts and that is driving your decision making processes.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to use logic to reverse a decision that somebody made with emotion. They have to realize for themselves that they made the decision based on emotion and then approach the topic from a logical point of view.

If you don't want to do that, that's totally fine with me. If you do want to have an honest discussion of the merits, feel free to post what you see as the advantages and the reasoning behind your decisions.

:awe:

I actually have logic behind my decisions, but it's not something I want to discuss publicly here. I once divulged personal information on here, and got a horrid response from the AT community.

Ultimately, I don't owe any of you an explanation. I do appreciate your help, though.

 

[Turbonium]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($189.99 @ Memory Express)
Motherboard: Intel DH77EB Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($103.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: Kingston 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($98.18 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Western Digital VelociRaptor 250GB 3.5" 10000RPM Internal Hard Drive ($116.34 @ TigerDirect Canada)
Storage: Western Digital VelociRaptor 250GB 3.5" 10000RPM Internal Hard Drive ($116.34 @ TigerDirect Canada)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB Video Card ($289.00 @ Canada Computers)
Case: Antec SOLO II ATX Mid Tower Case ($112.30 @ Newegg Canada)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($93.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224BB DVD/CD Writer ($23.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($144.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Total: $1289.11
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-06 00:06 EST-0500)

 

[DominionSeraph]

Why would you get two 250GB Velociraptors?

 

[Turbonium]

Why would you get two 250GB Velociraptors?

RAID 0 for shits and giggles. I've always wanted to do it.

 

[Turbonium]

Lol, the case I wanted just went off sale price and no more free shipping. Like 20 minutes ago.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Listen, I know already that you're foing to ignore me. That's fine. I ignored a lot of advice people gave to me when I made my build. I probably could've saved $100-150 if I had listened.

The 7950 is generally better than the 660ti, Intel ethernet offers nothing over Realtek for the average user, particularly with a good CPU, there is nothing inherently better about Intel boards (in fact, they are leaving the motherboard business, so good luck getting support), and Velocirapotors are awful, cost wise. I'd recommend RAID0 or RAID10 7200RPM drives over Velociraptors.

That's all the stuff you won't listen to.

Now, for criticism that you'll actually listen to: the Fractal R4 is a better case than the Antec Sonata II. It comes with a fan controller, 140mm fans, and better silencing. It may also cost less. If you don't mind Windows 8, even the base edition will support more than 16GB of RAM. I personally find Windows 8 100% usable and even likeable.

 

[Turbonium]

Listen, I know already that you're foing to ignore me. That's fine. I ignored a lot of advice people gave to me when I made my build. I probably could've saved $100-150 if I had listened.

The 7950 is generally better than the 660ti, Intel ethernet offers nothing over Realtek for the average user, particularly with a good CPU, there is nothing inherently better about Intel boards (in fact, they are leaving the motherboard business, so good luck getting support), and Velocirapotors are awful, cost wise. I'd recommend RAID0 or RAID10 7200RPM drives over Velociraptors.

That's all the stuff you won't listen to.

Now, for criticism that you'll actually listen to: the Fractal R4 is a better case than the Antec Sonata II. It comes with a fan controller, 140mm fans, and better silencing. It may also cost less. If you don't mind Windows 8, even the base edition will support more than 16GB of RAM. I personally find Windows 8 100% usable and even likeable.

Lol?

It's like you have your mind made up yourself.

Do you sit on these forums nonstop and expect everyone to take all your advice? Is this your life?

Thanks, but really, relax.

We all have different value systems. Emotional health is often tied to mental health. Money and objective benefit isn't everything (i.e. when not factoring in objective measurement of mental health, if even possible).

There, I said it. Now continue to try and tell me what to do as if your way is the only way, without knowing exactly what's going on in my mind, or my past history, or anything. Just because someone isn't making the most objective, rational purchase sense, it doesn't mean it's not beneficial to the person in the end.

And I don't like the look of the Fractal as much. Or would you like me to somehow make the subjective into an objective measure? It's about all you seem to understand.

 

[DominionSeraph]

You know there's 15K SAS and RAID cards, right?

 

[Raincity]

Listen, I know already that you're foing to ignore me. That's fine. I ignored a lot of advice people gave to me when I made my build. I probably could've saved $100-150 if I had listened.

The 7950 is generally better than the 660ti, Intel ethernet offers nothing over Realtek for the average user, particularly with a good CPU, there is nothing inherently better about Intel boards (in fact, they are leaving the motherboard business, so good luck getting support), and Velocirapotors are awful, cost wise. I'd recommend RAID0 or RAID10 7200RPM drives over Velociraptors.

That's all the stuff you won't listen to.

Now, for criticism that you'll actually listen to: the Fractal R4 is a better case than the Antec Sonata II. It comes with a fan controller, 140mm fans, and better silencing. It may also cost less. If you don't mind Windows 8, even the base edition will support more than 16GB of RAM. I personally find Windows 8 100% usable and even likeable.

Just because Intel decided to get out of the desktop board market you think that support will now just wither up and die. If you have ever dealt with Intel retail on a support or RMA warranty issue. You would realize that they are tops in the industry with the most hassle free RMA process.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I'm not saying that you NEED to take my opinion. I've made up my mind about you: you like Seasonic, and Intel, and Velociraptors. There's nothing wrong about that. I just think there are ways to get better performance for your money.

You definitely disagree. And you know what? There's nothing wrong with that. I don't tie my pride and worth as a person on whether people follow my advice. Is it somewhat upsetting when people don't take it, perferring a different route? A little. But I get over it.

I probably seem obsessed with numbers, metrics, and stats above subjective feelings. That's because people get tied to their decisions, particularly product choices. We the first world, after all, are a consumer culture. People often make irrational choices, but numbers don't lie. I feel a little personal shame at my own build because it simply isn't very price efficient: there's lots of money put into the case and PSU that could have gone into a superior GPU, monitor, or simply saved. But I understand (even though I often forget!) that that's not the end-all-be-all of life.

I mean, you'll get a working computer either way. We don't have to fight about it. I think I need to take some steps back from what's happening, since I seem to have made you angry at me.

I'll try to fit a few recommendations within what you want. This Intel Z75 mATX motherboard is a bit cheaper than the one you chose. Since HDDs can't fill up SATA 3Gb/s, you'll be fine for up to six Velociraptors in RAID.

You can get Seasonic made PSUs for a bit less if you accept them from another brand. Seasonic makes it, the other company sells and decorates it. An Antec Earthwatts at 500W is enough for any single GPU, and costs only $68.51 before shipping.

Finally, please consider getting 7200RPM drives in RAID10. You can get nearly the speed and much more security and space for roughly the same price. It's even still got the "cool" factor of RAID (two kinds at once, no less).

I'm honestly and sincerely sorry if I upset you. If you'd like, I'll stop posting in this thread.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Just because Intel decided to get out of the desktop board market you think that support will now just wither up and die. If you have ever dealt with Intel retail on a support or RMA warranty issue. You would realize that they are tops in the industry with the most hassle free RMA process.

I have not said it will wither and die. I have said you may need "good luck." I realize that Intel must have great customer service and great products if nobody here has complained. But, if the company stops making motherboards, you may have some extra unforeseen difficulty in getting it RMA'd simply because they may not have the parts or employee expertise in that area anymore 3-5 years down the line when the mobo is actually likely to fail.

It's not the end of Intel. It's certainly not the end of their customer service. But it may make things more difficult, and it's something that must be factored into a purchasing decision.

I have learned later in this thread that just because Intel is done selling motherboards doesn't mean that their suppliers are. There should be nothing to worry about.

 

[Turbonium]

That's fine, thanks for your response. I'm just a bit worked up due to my mental health issues.

You just really came off as trying to tell me what to do and in a way looking down on me as if you're high and mighty, especially in the wording of your last post.



Also: I swear, that PCPartPicker website does NOT calculate taxes and shipping right - the number it gives at the bottom isn't including tax or all actual shipping costs. I literally checked it manually. So either it's borked, or I'm actually retarded somehow.

 

[Raincity]

I have not said it will wither and die. I have said you may need "good luck." I realize that Intel must have great customer service and great products if nobody here has complained. But, if the company stops making motherboards, you may have some extra unforeseen difficulty in getting it RMA'd simply because they may not have the parts or employee expertise in that area anymore 3-5 years down the line when the mobo is actually likely to fail.

It's not the end of Intel. It's certainly not the end of their customer service. But it may make things more difficult, and it's something that must be factored into a purchasing decision.

Intel has not made their own motherboards server or desktop in ages. They have both Foxconn and Supermicro build the boards to their specs and quality control. Neither of them will be disappearing in the near future.

 

[Sleepingforest]

At Turbonium: No, you're 100% correct. Unless you feed it the tax rate and area code, it pretends shipping and taxes don't exist.

At Raincity: that is an error on my part. I will consider this a learning experience and I apologize for the lie I told in ignorance. I'll edit the posts in question with a strikethrough.

 

[Turbonium]

Anyone here recommend shipping insurance? It's like 25 bucks.

I'm thinking of saying no to it.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Hm... well, I would spring for it if it cover all your purchases. $25 to protect $1200 stuff is pretty good.

If it's $25 per item or per shipment, I'd have to think a little more. Maybe only on the easily damaged, expensive stuff (Velociraptor drives in particular; HDDs are easily damaged during shipping).

 

[Torn Mind]

For PCpartpicker, you need to sign up for an account and put in the tax rate yourself for the store. And shipping is indeed unreliable...probably because the database is too difficult to upgrade that frequently.

@Sleepingforest. Lying involves deliberately spread incorrect information. You only spoke purely out of ignorance and did not have any intention of deceiving someone. Hence, you only misinforming, not disinforming someone.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Well, that pedantry did make me feel better! Have some internet brownies.

The next off topic question: what's the difference between mistrust and distrust?

 

[Turbonium]

Btw my most recent build is identical to the one I listed above, but has 8GB of RAM instead. The total cost after taxes and shipping (manually calculated) is around $1485 or so.

 

[Sleepingforest]

That's pretty good! Much lower cost than your original.

My only 3 suggestions:
Seriously give this Intel mATX Z75 board (the DZ75ML-45K) a look. It has more SATA ports (for the future) than the H77 board you wanted and supports overclocking if you ever get an Ivy Bridge chip with an unlocked multiplier. It's unlikely since there's a new generation coming out this year, but who knows. It's nice to have options open.

Since both your chosen board and the one I recommend are mATX boards, you may want to check out the Temjin 08-e (physically pretty similar to the Antec Solo II, with a brushed aluminum front). It's a quiet case and can take advantage of boards with USB 3.0 headers (like the one I recommended). It's also smaller, so the shipping may be less.

Finally: I would definitely go for insurance on those hard drives. They're pretty sensitive to physical bumps and jolts, and online retailers aren't very good at packing them.

 

[Turbonium]

I've already considered that Temjin case. While the front looks decent (minus a few things), the fan vent at the top is really ugly. Compare it to the Antec and you'll know what I mean. I like clean lines. The vent has curves, which looks terrible in my opinion (on its own) and also clashes with the rest of the hard edges of the case.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Okay, fair enough. I never realized you had such strong case opinions! I'll leave you to your own decisions. I personally only care about what the front looks like since I never see the top or sides of mine.

I'd still look for mATX only because the shipping is much cheaper for a smaller case, but I don't know if you'll find that "perfect" design. Maybe something like this? It's pretty much all hard edges and black except for a side vent.