rate this performance rig - sticky questions now answered

[Turbonium]

I've been doing some preliminary configuration for an Ivy Bridge build. Here's what I have so far:

• i5 3570 - I'm not overclocking
• Intel DZ77SL50K (Z77 chipset) - again, not overlocking
• Kingston 2X4GB 1600 MHz CL11 (ValueRAM) - heatspreaders are tacky anyway
• EVGA GeForce 660 Ti 2GB - for maxing out most games at 1920x1200 @ 60+FPS, perhaps with some AA if possible
• 2 x 500GB Velociraptors (64MB) - RAID 0 badassery, but perhaps RAID 1 for safety
• Seasonic M12II 620W - speaks for itself

Keep in mind I like spindle drives over SSDs for my own reasons, so don't bother recommending an SSD.

Also: I'm considering an Asus P8Z77-M for the motherboard (among other Asus models), but I'm not sure I like the fact that it has a Realtek LAN controller over an Intel controller (to the best of my knowledge).

EDIT: See my next post below for sticky reply.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Fill out the sticky first, then we'll talk.

PLEASE when you POST threads asking for input on system builds tell us...

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

4. IF you're buying parts OUTSIDE the US, please post a link to the vendor you'll be buying from.
We can't be expected to scour the internet on your behalf, chasing down deals in your specific country... Again, help us, help YOU.

5. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using?

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
Note that it is usually not cost or time effective to choose your build more than a month before you actually plan to be using it.

X. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system, such as Windows or Blu Ray playback software?


At the end of the day it's your money. There's only so much we can do.

Some general impressions:
Hmm. I think 2 500GB Velociraptors is actually better simply because it balances power usage, sound levels, and risk of failure better (plus they're denser, so they cost less and read faster). Plus, I'd rather have a 7970 than SSD speeds or that PSU (many cheaper ones for the same wattage).

Post the costs of those components for a more specific criticism.

 

[riversend]

Can you answer the questions in this sticky? Kind of hard to judge what you are doing without knowing...ummm.... what you are doing.

 

[Turbonium]

My bad. Here:

• Will be used for gaming and occasional encoding (I don't need an 8 core equivalent as I'm not doing hardcore encoding or video editing to the extreme or anything)
• Budget is $1100-$1150 (CAD) for the rig alone, give or take (not factoring in the computer case).
• Purchases will be made in Canada.
• I'm not a fanboy of anything, but I do prefer Intel boards simply because they tend to have consistently high quality parts and less bells and whistles. I also don't like tacky stuff (this is including the "skull" motif with Intel's Extreme Series boards, so no, I'm not a fanboy).
• As mentioned, I'm not overclocking.
• 1920x1200 (more than likely).
• Would prefer a beefier PSU than is necessary, in order to leave room for future expansion (I typically keep my systems for many years).
• Want to build this system as soon as possible (quite literally).
• OS: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit OEM

The system above just about fits into the stated budget (it's around $1300 based on my last estimate, including the chassis... let me run by the numbers again and make another post).

EDIT: My fault again. It's around $1500 after taxes and shipping (I think the $1300 price I listed before is for 2 x 300GB drives). That leaves me around $500 for a monitor (my actual total budget is $2000, give or take).

 

[Sleepingforest]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($289.79 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Canada Computers)
Memory: Patriot Gamer 2 Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($40.50 @ Vuugo)
Storage: Western Digital VelociRaptor 1TB 3.5" 10000RPM Internal Hard Drive ($219.76 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: Asus Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($350.00 @ Vuugo)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Arctic White) ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ Memory Express)
Power Supply: Antec Basiq 500W ATX12V Power Supply ($54.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS72 DVD/CD Writer ($17.06 @ DirectCanada)
Total: $1152.08
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-04 21:05 EST-0500)

More power (better graphics card plus a Xeon with hyperthreading, since you won't OC). SLI and Crossfire typically aren't worth it from a cost prospective. Far better to sell the old card and get a new one.

Could I ask why you despise SSDs so much?

 

[Turbonium]

Could I ask why you despise SSDs so much?

I have a thing for 10,000 rpm drives. I've always wanted one. So now, I want to get two.

Btw, interesting website (PCPartPicker). I always do my price comparisons manually. :/

 

[Sleepingforest]

It's a good baseline, but check to make sure the prices are right.

Also, SSDs are faster, quieter, and more reliable than 10K RPM drives. You can get a 128GB OS/program drive with a 1TB 7200RPM drive for that kind of money 0_o.

 

[Turbonium]

It's a good baseline, but check to make sure the prices are right.

Also, SSDs are faster, quieter, and more reliable than 10K RPM drives. You can get a 128GB OS/program drive with a 1TB 7200RPM drive for that kind of money 0_o.

I realize that, but I just don't like the idea of a certain number of writes "built into" an SSD.

That being said, I realize spindle drives have MTBF and everything. It's just a preference I have for some reason.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Yeah, the writes built in are going to last 7+ years in a MLC disk and 4+ years in a TLC disk. You'll be fine.

 

[Turbonium]

My preliminary configuration is below (I've factored in shipping from 2 different e-retailers etc. - that website assumes pickup from what I can tell, and from many different vendors; like you said, it's good for a baseline).

• i5 3570 - $190 (pricematched at NCIX)
• Kingston 2X4GB 1600 MHz CL11 (ValueRAM) - $63 (NCIX)
• EVGA GeForce 660 Ti 2GB - $290 (NCIX)
• Seasonic M12II 520W - $90 (NCIX)
• Samsung SH-224BB 24X SATA DVD Writer - $23 (NCIX)
• Windows 7 Professional 64-bit OEM - $140 (NCIX)
  PRICE (shipping + shipping insurance + taxes) = $960

• Intel DZ77SL50K - $127 (Newegg.ca)
• 2 x 500GB Velociraptors (64MB) - $340 (Newegg.ca)
• Antec Sonata Series SOLO II - $112 (Newegg.ca)
  PRICE (shipping + taxes) = $685

Total cost = $1640

So let me revise the "fanboy" status: I am partial to Seasonic PSUs, WD Raptors, and Kingston memory without heatspreaders (I dislike heatspreaders a lot).

Keeping that in mind, and the fact that I'm in Canada, how much do you think I can shave off that price, taking into full account shipping when buying from multiple vendors, etc.?

 

[Sleepingforest]

Seriously? My build is superior in every metric: cost, performance, a quiet case...

Your fanboyism is costing you $400 or more plus performance. You want to pay more to get less... and I already did the Raptor for you too...

 

[Turbonium]

I'm saying your build doesn't factor in shipping. I tried it manually.

The website literally says the total cost for shipping is 5 bucks, from all those different vendors. It's also not factoring in taxes to the best of my knowledge, despite what it says. Tax here is like 15%.

Seriously, I tried it. Unless I'm doing something incorrectly...

Also: I found 250GB Raptors for 110CAD at another vendor. Does Newegg do pricematching?

 

[mfenn]

I'm saying your build doesn't factor in shipping. I tried it manually.

The website literally says the total cost for shipping is 5 bucks, from all those different vendors. It's also not factoring in taxes to the best of my knowledge, despite what it says. Tax here is like 15%.

Seriously, I tried it. Unless I'm doing something incorrectly...

You must have, I just added everything up and got $1261, still $400 below yours.

 

[Turbonium]

You must have, I just added everything up and got $1261, still $400 below yours.

Wtf.

You're using the Canadian version of the site, right?

I don't know... I'm getting a $230 difference between my build and his (after taxes). I realize his has a faster GPU and a better CPU (for things like encoding, not gaming), but I'm just trying to figure out where the discrepancy is in how I'm using the site versus you guys. I'm not trying to argue which is the better system at this point.

Motherboard : $60 difference
PSU: $50 difference
GPU: -$60 difference
RAM: $20 difference
HDDs (my config has 2 for redundancy, his has 1): $120 difference
That means around $250 difference before taxes. Factor in tax and you got around $300, right?

It's late, and I fail at math at times, lol.

EDIT:

As an example, look at the video card he selected. He lists it as $350, but the tax alone bumps it up to around $400. The website totally didn't factor that in, despite what it says.

Yea, whatever. I need to sleep on this. Too much research and staring at numbers for one night.

 

[mfenn]

Wtf.

You're using the Canadian version of the site, right?

Yep, I added to the cart on all the vendors listed (except I got the DVD-RW from Amazon.ca) and did the shipping + tax calculation.

 

[Turbonium]

Ok, I looked at it again. Basically, I'm paying a considerable premium for the Seasonic (2X), the Kingston RAM, and the extra Raptor HDD, not to mention the motherboard is double the cost as well (but I just like Intel build quality and Intel ethernet controllers that much more - go ahead and call me a fanboy).

To me, it's worth paying more for that stuff and getting a slightly weaker video card as a result (though to be honest, I've heard the AMD cards have microstutter issues - is this true?). Anyway, a 660 Ti more than fits my needs I think. A few years from now, both the 660 Ti and 7950 should have about the same FPS in games, within 3-5 FPS I'm guessing. At that point, either would need an upgrade, regardless.

As always, tell me if you disagree. I'm not claiming to know everything here (or I wouldn't be posting in the first place).

 

[Sleepingforest]

You seem like you've got your mind set, and none of it is horrendous... but for $300, I'd rather have a 7950, which comes with free games and often competes with the 670 (a $400 card). Plus, it has more VRAM and a wider memory bus, which are helpful future-resistant features.

Also, here is a thorough testing of Intel vs Realtek NICs in a NAS setting. The conclusion:

My system does not benefit much from the addition of the Intel NIC’s over the internal RealTek NIC’s and was not worth the additional cost of $60.00 for two NICs. Maybe it’s because my CPUs are fast, I’m not sure but these are the facts of my system. Also I was unable to do any testing using NFS becasuse Windoze 7 Professional and below does not have NFS client included and I didn't find a free NSF client to add to Windoze 7 that wasn't just terribly slow, I mean crawling slow.

 

[Turbonium]

Thanks as always.

I don't have my mind as set as you might think. I'm still open to the idea of a Radeon (I can actually get a 7950 for around 310 bucks before taxes... just 30 bucks more than the 660 Ti).

I'm just concerned about microstutter and build quality of the card (it's HIS - a brand I've never really purchased). The 660 Ti I'm considering is EVGA, if it matters.

I've also found that the Radeon has considerably more power draw than the 660 Ti and runs a bit hotter.

 

[Sleepingforest]

The power draw isn't "considerably" more. It's only 50W at the highest load, and the load is often very similar. It runs 3-6 degrees Celsius warmer at worst according to Anandtech Bench.

Furthermore:EVGA has good warranty policies, but they have awful coolers. HIS is quality too though, no need to worry.

 

[Turbonium]

The power draw isn't "considerably" more. It's only 50W at the highest load, and the load is often very similar. It runs 3-6 degrees Celsius warmer at worst according to Anandtech Bench.

Furthermore:EVGA has good warranty policies, but they have awful coolers. HIS is quality too though, no need to worry.

Is the cooler on their stock 660 Ti particularly prone to problems?

Good to hear about HIS being good. Still, the microstutter has me worried. No point in having 100+ FPS if you get the occasional hiccup or whatnot.

Also: the 7950 seems to be solidly slower than the 660 Ti in some games (including Starcraft II - a game I'll definitely be playing). I'm assuming that's due to drivers. Either way, the endgame FPS is what matters for me, hence why I'm considering the 660 Ti still.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I suppose if the games you like to play are better on the 660ti are better, there's not much I can say. The 7950 is generally more powerful, particularly if you're willing to overclock it.

As for microstutter: you probably won't notice it. People have to slow videos way down to detect it, and unless you put two computers side by side, it's not evident except to extremely sensitive people.

If you've been on the 25 or so frames per second consoles until now, chances are you won't notice. You'll be too busy enjoying the high framerate and graphical details.

 

[Turbonium]

I'm actually super picky and I can notice and pick up on things others don't, so I'm worried about the microstutter.

And consoles: puke. Anything in the range of 20-40FPS, I can probably estimate fairly accurately what the FPS is. Below 10FPS? I can call it exactly. I bet you can too to be honest.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Yeah, I can call framerates within about 5 frames give or take, but microstutter still escapes me.

If worst comes to worst, you can lock your framerate at 60 using RadeonPro. That eliminates microstutter if any is present.

 

[Raincity]

Is the cooler on their stock 660 Ti particularly prone to problems?

Good to hear about HIS being good. Still, the microstutter has me worried. No point in having 100+ FPS if you get the occasional hiccup or whatnot.

Also: the 7950 seems to be solidly slower than the 660 Ti in some games (including Starcraft II - a game I'll definitely be playing). I'm assuming that's due to drivers. Either way, the endgame FPS is what matters for me, hence why I'm considering the 660 Ti still.

My EVGA 660TI SC has the standard reference blower. I run it stock with no issues. Everything runs smooth at high/ultra on a single monitor at 1920x1200. I picked EVGA because I trust the service of the warranty.

 

[mfenn]

Is the cooler on their stock 660 Ti particularly prone to problems?

The main problem is that, like all blowers, it's much louder than it needs to be. That's a fundamental result of using a small fan (high RPMS) blowing through a long heatsink (lots of turbulence).