Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

Page 130 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,191
1,975
136
Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vstar

controlflow

Member
Feb 17, 2015
109
157
116
He doesn't, but neither we.

So Thread vs Thread, 65W vs 65W seems fair right? I mean the 13900K and 7950X have the same thread count and about the same power envelope(I know the 7950X its somewhat lower).

I didn't even realize there was a non x 7700. Given this is slower than a 7700x but faster than a 7600x, probably safe to say it will slot in between those two in price. Between $300-$400. The 13400 isn't out yet but it will be cheaper than a 13600k which is $320-$330. The 13400 will replace the 12400 which is currently under $200.

Safe to say that the price points of these CPUs are very different and they occupy pretty different market segments despite having the same thread count.

If you had $300-$400 to spend, I'm not sure why you'd even look at anything other than a 13600k.
If you have under $300, there is nothing to look at from AMD at least on AM5.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,839
3,174
126
I see no Issues whatsoever.

your comparing a a tesla m3 performance to a Chevy Bolt. If you want to talk car sense.
It has no sense of conformity or standard besides they are both eV's and can draw the similar range.
Your completely ignoring the price tag or the fact the 7700 has a ASROCK Taichi X670E (which is no where near budget grade or lower end board sepctrum.), and the intel is on a OEM board with is very limited in every aspect especially if its an Acer. (at least give the intel a Z670 Taichi or a Z670 STRIX something on the same board family).

No its a horrible comparison, and even then the 7600x is being comapred to a 13600K.
How does comparing a higher ranked 7700 compare against the lower ranked 13400 make sense.
Its a poor excuse of clickbait as i see it.

Safe to say that the price points of these CPUs are very different

the price difference between the cpu's is only the start... the grade difference between the boards is like night and day.
Its a TAICHI... it ranks along with ASUS STRIX, MSI MEG, Gigabyte Aorus Tachyon, series in quality.
What idiot puts it in a OEM Acer board and runs tests as comparison?

Sorry that reviewer is what i definite as an IDIOT.
Did he also leave the bloatware Acer has on its system when he ran the tests too?

Why does equalizing for thread count instead of, say, price, make sense?

Supposidely i guess its the common university level IT...
Sigh....

Even then its clearly shown you can NOT cross compare core to core on Intel vs AMD.
You can't even cross compare P vs E cores on the same die that intel has.
Why on heavens would you cross compare core for core on a cpu not designed for that intended purpose to begin with?
 
Last edited:

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,330
5,281
136
Sorry that reviewer is what i definite as an IDIOT.
It's not a Reviewer, it was just me using Geekbench5 to compare a 65W 16 Threaded CPU from Intel(13400) from Intel to a 65W 16 Threaded CPU from AMD(7700 non-x model). Yeah they likely have different price and different segment.

The 13600 non-k its a better match, because it has 20 Threads and decent clocks.


Now that the 13600 has 4 extra threads, is Fair Now?
 
Last edited:

Pneumothorax

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2002
1,182
23
81
PSA, make sure you do a hard reset (short the RTC) on many z690 mobos that have been upgraded from Alder to Raptor. I just partially fried my 13900K somehow after replacing a 12900K in an Asus TUF Z690 Plus DDR4 motherboard. I upgraded to the latest firmware on Asus' site, shorted the RTC jumper while power was cut off and I thought I was golden. Booted up fine and worked well for a day or so after enabling XMP. Today, will no longer boot at XMP speeds and my M.2 slot 1 has gone bad. Found out the stupid motherboard was running the CPU at 1.5 volts for some reason, I thought the high temps was just expected with RL. I then shorted the RTC while computer was on. It was then everything was reset, but damage already occurred. Putting back my 12900K results in booting fine at XMP and M.2 slot 1 working again.
 

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
3,967
720
126
It's not a Reviewer, it was just me using Geekbench5 to compare a 65W 16 Threaded CPU from Intel(13400) from Intel to a 65W 16 Threaded CPU from AMD(7700 non-x model). Yeah they likely have different price and different segment.

The 13600 non-k its a better match, because it has 20 Threads and decent clocks.


Now that the 13600 has 4 extra threads, is Fair Now?
The 13600k has a base clock for the p-cores of 3.5Ghz and in your link it shows up as 2.7Ghz, unless we have a review that actually confirms the clocks and the performance you can't compare them.
Same for the 13400 you showed before, it's shown as 2.5Ghz, since that one isn't released yet we have no idea what the base clock should be.
2ykWEjL.jpg
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,330
5,281
136
The 13600k has a base clock for the p-cores of 3.5Ghz and in your link it shows up as 2.7Ghz
It's the 13600 non-k, The fake Raptor Lake(Alder Lake rebrand). It has 20 Threads and rated at 65W

Talking about fake Raptor Lake Here is yet another.

The 13900HK
Screenshot_20221026-043717_Chrome.jpg

 

Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
6,841
1,536
136
One of the best reviews I've seen so far. He benchmarked at 1080p low settings which helped to put the burden on the CPU, also with an RTX 4090 and DDR5 6800 CL34 memory. Also, unlike other reviews, the ASRock motherboard he used automatically capped the power at 253 watts:

 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,151
11,686
136
PSA, make sure you do a hard reset (short the RTC) on many z690 mobos that have been upgraded from Alder to Raptor. I just partially fried my 13900K somehow after replacing a 12900K in an Asus TUF Z690 Plus DDR4 motherboard. I upgraded to the latest firmware on Asus' site, shorted the RTC jumper while power was cut off and I thought I was golden. Booted up fine and worked well for a day or so after enabling XMP. Today, will no longer boot at XMP speeds and my M.2 slot 1 has gone bad. Found out the stupid motherboard was running the CPU at 1.5 volts for some reason, I thought the high temps was just expected with RL. I then shorted the RTC while computer was on. It was then everything was reset, but damage already occurred. Putting back my 12900K results in booting fine at XMP and M.2 slot 1 working again.
If you're running the latest BIOS on that board, you may want to consider downgrading to the previous one. (or at least investigate this issue on the forums). Your problem has a high chance of being software related, hence fixable sooner or later.
PSA: Some Intel BIOS updates are nasty, bricking the NVME slot attached to the CPU.

 
  • Like
Reactions: gdansk

Pneumothorax

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2002
1,182
23
81
If you're running the latest BIOS on that board, you may want to consider downgrading to the previous one. (or at least investigate this issue on the forums). Your problem has a high chance of being software related, hence fixable sooner or later.
OMG Thanks for the link. That's crazy! What version of Bios do I use on my Asus? I'm thinking about just bringing this CPU back to BB, tired of being a beta tester for this crap. Surprised this made it past quality control.
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,330
5,281
136
OMG Thanks for the link. That's crazy! What version of Bios do I use on my Asus? I'm thinking about just bringing this CPU back to BB, tired of being a beta tester for this crap. Surprised this made it past quality control.
Whover buys a CPU within the first week of release, becomes a beta tester automatically, give it at least a month or more.
 
Jul 27, 2020
15,759
9,823
106
What I'm curious about is, are they doing the stupid thing of disabling AVX-512 units still or have those units been removed from the die altogether? I mean, I don't know how reality works in a fab but the logical thing would be to have a new mask for the Raptor Lake die with the AVX-512 units out so they can reduce the die size or use the freed up space for additional cache etc.
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,330
5,281
136
What I'm curious about is, are they doing the stupid thing of disabling AVX-512 units still or have those units been removed from the die altogether?.
AVX-512 have been designed in to the Core itself. They just go to the trouble of laser them off because it's not officially supported.

For example here is a Golden Cove Core and The Redwood Core next to each other, The AVX-512 Support has been baked in the core design because it will be used also on the server parts

Golden Cove vs Redwood Cove
1666797615258.png
 
Last edited:

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,151
11,686
136
What version of Bios do I use on my Asus?
I was merely passing along the bit of info that I stumbled upon. Ah, dug a bit more and found your exact issue, it appears you need to update the Intel ME firmware & driver.

Here's a thread on the issue - https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...103-from-with-13900k-no-nvme-drivers-detected
Here's the resource page you need for firmware/driver - https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?131027-RaptorLake-Resources

Take it slow, read the threads. Good luck!
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
7,797
5,899
136
Why does equalizing for thread count instead of, say, price, make sense?

Both make sense. Comparing two CPUs that offer 16 threads for 65W makes sense as a comparison. So does comparing what level of performance you can get for $300 (or any amount), or what kind of performance you get if both cap clock rates at the same frequency, or what kind of performance you can get pushing both chips as far as they're capable of going, etc.

One type of comparison doesn't invalidate others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TESKATLIPOKA

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,718
1,278
136
Raptor Lake is mostly just overclocked Alder Lake. Don't see how the upgrade is worth it. Just take it back and be happy with what you have.
Simply not true, except for some unreleased chips on the lower end. You get more e cores, increased cache and probably a better memory controller with RL. Actually, the improvement from AL to RL was somewhat better than I expected.