Rant: I hate Lotus Notes

[Beattie]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: Shelly21

Originally posted by: rh71
Notes took me a few months to get used to when I first started using it in 2000. I've never seen an app that uses the escape key so much.

Sametime is pretty good... there should be AIM integration with it also... is it ST version 3.0 ?

Version 2.5

I recall there was AIM integration with that also. Is there nothing about "Log on to AOL Instant Messenger" under the "People" menu item ? I don't think they specially created our deployment unless they took it out of yours.

I have version 3.1 and there is no way to connect to AIM.

 

[m2kewl]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Both Lotus Notes and MS Outlook/Exchange are crap.

Well there's an intelligent post. So what do you recommend?

Mercury Mail and Mozilla Thunderbird.

Yeah that'll go over well with the executives in an enterprise setting.

They like the price difference, at least

there are some things $$ can't buy...

 

[Shelly21]

I can probably connect to AIM (There is an AOL logo in the help section), however, the problem is the firewall issue.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Both Lotus Notes and MS Outlook/Exchange are crap.

Well there's an intelligent post. So what do you recommend?

Mercury Mail and Mozilla Thunderbird.

Umm...not even the same kind of program. Those are e-mail packages.

I have to agree with the dislike of both Lotus Notes and MS Exchange. Managers love integration, while they ignore the reliability and security costs until it bites them hard. It also has the same problems that MS Windows has in general--it's easy to learn, but hard to use, because while it makes easy tasks easy, it makes medium difficulty ones hard, and difficult ones impossible.

What do I recommend in place of Lotus Notes and MS Exchange? It depends on what problems you were attempting to solve with those programs in the first place and how large your organization is.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: Shelly21
I can probably connect to AIM (There is an AOL logo in the help section), however, the problem is the firewall issue.

just to let you know what would work: login.oscar.aol.com port 5190 (no proxy set)

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: rh71
why they did it

Lazy cheapasses who don't want to shell out the money for and spend the time to upgrade to Exchange 2003 (what's wrong with staying with Exchange 5.5 anyway?).

Lotus is a complete WASTE of system resources. It's UGLY to boot.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: werk
Who the hell migrates from Exchange to Lotus? UGH!

smart business who want true groupware and workflow automation.

I agree. Unfortunately, most businesses overlook 2 things:
1. employees bitch about change. (see OP)
2. most employees aren't as smart as they claim they are. Maybe it is a little more difficult to use than a plain email program. But, Lotus notes isn't that difficult to use, and the extra features would be great if the BMW* club members would learn to use them.

(*bitch moan and whine)

Okay, lets hear it from the resource hog people living in today's world of 3.0 GB processors and 1 GB RAM computers becoming common. If we'd all go back to plain email and simple un-bloated word processors, all but the gamers and CAD people could go back to 486's.

 

[Shelly21]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: Shelly21
I can probably connect to AIM (There is an AOL logo in the help section), however, the problem is the firewall issue.

just to let you know what would work: login.oscar.aol.com port 5190 (no proxy set)

That's what's in the Preference setting, it is not working. I'm sure the proxy people have a secret host server that they use.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: rh71
why they did it

Lazy cheapasses who don't want to shell out the money for and spend the time to upgrade to Exchange 2003 (what's wrong with staying with Exchange 5.5 anyway?).

Lotus is a complete WASTE of system resources. It's UGLY to boot.

I think there's some kind of capacity/size limit with Exchange 5.5 that doesn't exist in 2003 and causes a crash. Last Valentine's, my fiancee had to stay at her office for many hours unpaid OT to find this out one night. :| She spent the entire weekend doing a restore as much as possible after the crash. They finally upgraded to 2003 recently.

 

[dman]

Notes performance is bad if you are trying to work with your mail over the WAN directly on the server. That is fairly common in notes world. MS Shops often have local servers at each site so performance is a bit better... but the infra. costs more to maintain. Solution: Ensure you are using replication and performance is much better and you can work disconnected that way too. I'd assume they set that up to begin with but some places do not.

Shift-F9 rebuilds the current view and CTRL-SHIFT-F9 rebuilds all your views, if you have mail in them that is hidden that may fix it. Otherwise it may be deleted or in a view/folder that is not 'enabled'. If you were just migrated, open a ticket and have them check into it, some folders get lost and need to be recovered but it shouldn't be a major ordeal.

For Sametime, Options -> Preferences should have stuff for AIM connectivity in Sametime, but, I prefer using Trillian for external stuff.

 

[m2kewl]

Originally posted by: Shelly21

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: Shelly21
I can probably connect to AIM (There is an AOL logo in the help section), however, the problem is the firewall issue.

just to let you know what would work: login.oscar.aol.com port 5190 (no proxy set)

That's what's in the Preference setting, it is not working. I'm sure the proxy people have a secret host server that they use.

why don't you just set it to port 80? i'm sure they aren't blocking http!

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: werk
Who the hell migrates from Exchange to Lotus? UGH!

smart business who want true groupware and workflow automation.

I agree. Unfortunately, most businesses overlook 2 things:
1. employees bitch about change. (see OP)
2. most employees aren't as smart as they claim they are. Maybe it is a little more difficult to use than a plain email program. But, Lotus notes isn't that difficult to use, and the extra features would be great if the BMW* club members would learn to use them.

(*bitch moan and whine)

Okay, lets hear it from the resource hog people living in today's world of 3.0 GB processors and 1 GB RAM computers becoming common. If we'd all go back to plain email and simple un-bloated word processors, all but the gamers and CAD people could go back to 486's.

What exactly is the point of making more powerful computers if companies just make the same old software hogs all the extra resources anyway? A 500mhz machine should be able to run any basic office app some one wants, and fast. If you have a 3ghz cpu and 1gb of ram for graphic work...do you really want to piss away your extra resources on a bloated email client?

For basic email, the client is not much more difficult than the microsoft version. But I can't get anyone to use the extra calender features because they are to complicated. And we have lots of slow old PCs, and some 1.5ghz newer ones. Notes totally chokes the old ones, and really slows down the new ones.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: werk
Who the hell migrates from Exchange to Lotus? UGH!

smart business who want true groupware and workflow automation.

I agree. Unfortunately, most businesses overlook 2 things:
1. employees bitch about change. (see OP)
2. most employees aren't as smart as they claim they are. Maybe it is a little more difficult to use than a plain email program. But, Lotus notes isn't that difficult to use, and the extra features would be great if the BMW* club members would learn to use them.

(*bitch moan and whine)

Okay, lets hear it from the resource hog people living in today's world of 3.0 GB processors and 1 GB RAM computers becoming common. If we'd all go back to plain email and simple un-bloated word processors, all but the gamers and CAD people could go back to 486's.

What exactly is the point of making more powerful computers if companies just make the same old software hogs all the extra resources anyway? A 500mhz machine should be able to run any basic office app some one wants, and fast. If you have a 3ghz cpu and 1gb of ram for graphic work...do you really want to piss away your extra resources on a bloated email client?

For basic email, the client is not much more difficult than the microsoft version. But I can't get anyone to use the extra calender features because they are to complicated. And we have lots of slow old PCs, and some 1.5ghz newer ones. Notes totally chokes the old ones, and really slows down the new ones.

moore's law applies here. processor speeds increase = app's complexity grows.

And today's applications need 3 ghz and 1 gig ram. Even basic business analysis and modeling tools are "slow" on today's machines. And a 1 gig of ram isn't nearly enough if you're still paging all the time.

I digress.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: werk
Who the hell migrates from Exchange to Lotus? UGH!

smart business who want true groupware and workflow automation.

I agree. Unfortunately, most businesses overlook 2 things:
1. employees bitch about change. (see OP)
2. most employees aren't as smart as they claim they are. Maybe it is a little more difficult to use than a plain email program. But, Lotus notes isn't that difficult to use, and the extra features would be great if the BMW* club members would learn to use them.

(*bitch moan and whine)

Okay, lets hear it from the resource hog people living in today's world of 3.0 GB processors and 1 GB RAM computers becoming common. If we'd all go back to plain email and simple un-bloated word processors, all but the gamers and CAD people could go back to 486's.

What exactly is the point of making more powerful computers if companies just make the same old software hogs all the extra resources anyway? A 500mhz machine should be able to run any basic office app some one wants, and fast. If you have a 3ghz cpu and 1gb of ram for graphic work...do you really want to piss away your extra resources on a bloated email client?

For basic email, the client is not much more difficult than the microsoft version. But I can't get anyone to use the extra calender features because they are to complicated. And we have lots of slow old PCs, and some 1.5ghz newer ones. Notes totally chokes the old ones, and really slows down the new ones.

moore's law applies here. processor speeds increase = app's complexity grows.

And today's applications need 3 ghz and 1 gig ram. Even basic business analysis and modeling tools are "slow" on today's machines. And a 1 gig of ram isn't nearly enough if you're still paging all the time.

I digress.

Then why does MS's product run so much faster? They've bloated their software up as much as anyone but it runs at least twice as fast.

Ah, the old 'buy a faster computer' solution. For some reason the CFO never wants to hear that. Non-profits, pfft.

 

[rh71]

<-- runs Notes R5 (and sometimes R6) on a 800MHz laptop with a mail file directly on the server connected via WAN/VPN (work from home). It's very tolerable... but of course if you're coming from Exchange where it's almost instantaneous... you're gonna feel like it's moving at a snail's pace. But again, very tolerable. This is coming from using a 2.08GHz machine otherwise.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: werk
Who the hell migrates from Exchange to Lotus? UGH!

smart business who want true groupware and workflow automation.

I agree. Unfortunately, most businesses overlook 2 things:
1. employees bitch about change. (see OP)
2. most employees aren't as smart as they claim they are. Maybe it is a little more difficult to use than a plain email program. But, Lotus notes isn't that difficult to use, and the extra features would be great if the BMW* club members would learn to use them.

(*bitch moan and whine)

Okay, lets hear it from the resource hog people living in today's world of 3.0 GB processors and 1 GB RAM computers becoming common. If we'd all go back to plain email and simple un-bloated word processors, all but the gamers and CAD people could go back to 486's.

What exactly is the point of making more powerful computers if companies just make the same old software hogs all the extra resources anyway? A 500mhz machine should be able to run any basic office app some one wants, and fast. If you have a 3ghz cpu and 1gb of ram for graphic work...do you really want to piss away your extra resources on a bloated email client?

For basic email, the client is not much more difficult than the microsoft version. But I can't get anyone to use the extra calender features because they are to complicated. And we have lots of slow old PCs, and some 1.5ghz newer ones. Notes totally chokes the old ones, and really slows down the new ones.

moore's law applies here. processor speeds increase = app's complexity grows.

And today's applications need 3 ghz and 1 gig ram. Even basic business analysis and modeling tools are "slow" on today's machines. And a 1 gig of ram isn't nearly enough if you're still paging all the time.

I digress.

Then why does MS's product run so much faster? They've bloated their software up as much as anyone but it runs at least twice as fast.

Ah, the old 'buy a faster computer' solution. For some reason the CFO never wants to hear that. Non-profits, pfft.

I'm still confused. How does notes run slower? For me address lookups and e-mails fly. searches are instantaneous thanks to full indexing (ever do a search on outlook mail? talk about waiting 10 minutes)

If notes runs slow it is because of poor implementation/planning, not the product itself.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: werk
Who the hell migrates from Exchange to Lotus? UGH!

smart business who want true groupware and workflow automation.

I agree. Unfortunately, most businesses overlook 2 things:
1. employees bitch about change. (see OP)
2. most employees aren't as smart as they claim they are. Maybe it is a little more difficult to use than a plain email program. But, Lotus notes isn't that difficult to use, and the extra features would be great if the BMW* club members would learn to use them.

(*bitch moan and whine)

Okay, lets hear it from the resource hog people living in today's world of 3.0 GB processors and 1 GB RAM computers becoming common. If we'd all go back to plain email and simple un-bloated word processors, all but the gamers and CAD people could go back to 486's.

What exactly is the point of making more powerful computers if companies just make the same old software hogs all the extra resources anyway? A 500mhz machine should be able to run any basic office app some one wants, and fast. If you have a 3ghz cpu and 1gb of ram for graphic work...do you really want to piss away your extra resources on a bloated email client?

For basic email, the client is not much more difficult than the microsoft version. But I can't get anyone to use the extra calender features because they are to complicated. And we have lots of slow old PCs, and some 1.5ghz newer ones. Notes totally chokes the old ones, and really slows down the new ones.

moore's law applies here. processor speeds increase = app's complexity grows.

And today's applications need 3 ghz and 1 gig ram. Even basic business analysis and modeling tools are "slow" on today's machines. And a 1 gig of ram isn't nearly enough if you're still paging all the time.

I digress.

Then why does MS's product run so much faster? They've bloated their software up as much as anyone but it runs at least twice as fast.

Ah, the old 'buy a faster computer' solution. For some reason the CFO never wants to hear that. Non-profits, pfft.

I'm still confused. How does notes run slower? For me address lookups and e-mails fly. searches are instantaneous thanks to full indexing (ever do a search on outlook mail? talk about waiting 10 minutes)

If notes runs slow it is because of poor implementation/planning, not the product itself.

I agree... I have no problems whatsoever using notes on my computer at work. And, I'm one of the few who realizes that the extra features aren't *that* complicated. But, most people don't want to learn. (not that it takes much time to learn the extra features).

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: rh71
Use it everyday and we're not changing for obvious reasons... I despise it... SO SLOOOOOOW. The one upside is security over Exchange though.

Give NotesBuddy a try. The e-mail client is smaller and much faster, it has great Lotus Sametime integration, and even does BluePages lookups if you have an IBM account. The only time I use the full blown copy of Notes 6 anymore is when I need to check my calendar or work on Domino databases.

 

[Mookow]

I hate Lotus Notes

Amen.

 

[Aharami]

lotus notes sucks @$$

 

[manly]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: werk
Who the hell migrates from Exchange to Lotus? UGH!

smart business who want true groupware and workflow automation.

I agree. Unfortunately, most businesses overlook 2 things:
1. employees bitch about change. (see OP)
2. most employees aren't as smart as they claim they are. Maybe it is a little more difficult to use than a plain email program. But, Lotus notes isn't that difficult to use, and the extra features would be great if the BMW* club members would learn to use them.

(*bitch moan and whine)

Okay, lets hear it from the resource hog people living in today's world of 3.0 GB processors and 1 GB RAM computers becoming common. If we'd all go back to plain email and simple un-bloated word processors, all but the gamers and CAD people could go back to 486's.

What exactly is the point of making more powerful computers if companies just make the same old software hogs all the extra resources anyway? A 500mhz machine should be able to run any basic office app some one wants, and fast. If you have a 3ghz cpu and 1gb of ram for graphic work...do you really want to piss away your extra resources on a bloated email client?

For basic email, the client is not much more difficult than the microsoft version. But I can't get anyone to use the extra calender features because they are to complicated. And we have lots of slow old PCs, and some 1.5ghz newer ones. Notes totally chokes the old ones, and really slows down the new ones.

moore's law applies here. processor speeds increase = app's complexity grows.

And today's applications need 3 ghz and 1 gig ram. Even basic business analysis and modeling tools are "slow" on today's machines. And a 1 gig of ram isn't nearly enough if you're still paging all the time.

I digress.

I believe that's Parkinson's Law.

 

[MisterYu]

Use Notes at work too, and I hate it too.

 

[milagro]

not really partial to either but as far as my admin experience on both, i'd have to say exchange seems to create users/me more issues than lotus 6/7/8 ever did...

but yeah, notes is disorienting for most people who grew up in bill gates pocket.

 

[athithi]

No complaints....keeps guys like me employed But Notes Mail doesn't make much sense unless your organization has other Lotus Notes applications that use workflow and mail notifications. And yeah, use local replicas if it takes too long to open your mails.

:beer: for NotesBuddy (and for Killnotes.exe too :evil: )

 

[Shortcut]

Blotus Goats sucks ass. When it crashes, I gotta launch task manager to close out nupdate, nminder and the other associated apps running in the background. POS!