Hmmm while it may be debated why there are differences, it is without arguement that blacks are better athletes. Why? I don't know. Just like I'll tell you that whites are better business owners as well. Why? I don't know. But the goal should be that everyone no matter what the job or sport should have the oppurtunity to be the best they can without restrictions or prejudice.
"They have a stronger case then the blacks if we use your logic. "
The only logic I got is that skin color has nothing to do with ability.
The only logic I got is that skin color has nothing to do with ability.
If white coaches had 1.1 more wins than their black counterparts, I'm sure you would use that as evidence for your previous erroneous assumption that whites make better coaches, instead of using your 1 specific case of Gruden.
Originally posted by: calbear2000
Originally posted by: BooGiMaN
your welcome
LOL ... I guess cuda didn't understand that you were on his side eh?
actually this whole post is pretty humorous...why is jackson trying to make the team owners hire soemone based on their color?
If i was an owner id hire damn well anyone i wanted....just like russel simmons makign peoepl boycott...if pepsi sees their customers are angry at their advertisement, they dont have the right to change an ad? so pepsi is supposed to sit around and keep a commercial thats displeaseing their customers? who died and made jackson or simmons the ceo or owners?
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
Blacks arn't better athletes either. White boys just have other opportunites than sports and do them instead. For many blacks it's the only way out, they don't have playstation and the internet to bitch about how unfair life is. Instead thier on the blacktop court preacticeing. Check the world records books if you don't think so.
cuda,
I'm not going to waste any more time trying to convince you. Its obvious that you're not going to change your views no matter what the numbers say. Any fact I use, you'll just say "you can make numbers say anything. Use common sense" Thus, this will be my last post.
Think outside any specific case for once... forget Gruden vs Dungie. Forget the Lions. Try to think about the overall picture:
1) Black coaches statistically have better records. Look at the study objectively
2) Nearly 70% of NFL and College football players are black
3) Nearly all NFL head coaches were former players, and are white
If you honestly don't think there is a glass ceiling, you've got your head buried in the sand
I'm not going to waste any more time trying to convince you. Its obvious that you're not going to change your views no matter what the numbers say. Any fact I use, you'll just say "you can make numbers say anything. Use common sense" Thus, this will be my last post.
Think outside any specific case for once... forget Gruden vs Dungie. Forget the Lions. Try to think about the overall picture:
1) Black coaches statistically have better records. Look at the study objectively
2) Nearly 70% of NFL and College football players are black
3) Nearly all NFL head coaches were former players, and are white
If you honestly don't think there is a glass ceiling, you've got your head buried in the sand
- Jul 26, 2002
- 11,757
- 0
- 71
Do you know blacks aren't better athletes? Can you prove or disprove it? No. So don't use that as an argument. The fact of the matter is that Jessie is choosing the wrong battle to fight. Mariucci is perfectly qualified. I don't know one coach that showed interest in the Lions that was more qualified, let alone a black coach. So whats the deal? Why does Jackson choose to bust some arse here?
Where you getting your info from exactly?
Have you been to the ghetto (assumign you mean poor blacks) and made a survey about who does or does not own a playstation or internet access..thats a ridiculus statement
Originally posted by: Tripleshot
Give up this race crap. We all love our children, love freedom, and bleed red blood. We are all of the brotherhood of man. Give people credit for their works and deeds, not the color of their skin or the slant of their eyes. It's high time the young usher in a new world, void of racism and backbiting of their forfathers. Evertime I see someone jump all over Jessie Jackson, I just want to slap the piss out of them, because #1, they don't listen to what he says, they just bash him because of the color of his skin and the fact he is against racism and for equality. And #2, the fathers have been racist and it has filtered down generation to generation. Time to change. And the change comes from within each and everyone of you. You must make the change in you, and when that is accomplished, this world will be a much better place, and the war we are about to get into will not be necessary again, because respect for human dignity should prevail.
It starts when we teach our children respect , and threads titled like this one do not show respect. If a white man spoke of the same things as Jessie Jackson, would you be so quick to find fault? I don't think so.
You're heart is in the right place but you are mistaken about Jackson. Jesse Jackson is a race hustler. Have you read the book by Bill Sammon? It chronicles how Jesse lied about holding MLK in his arms after he was shot, then proclaiming himself the aire to MLK's legacy. He was a hanger on that MLK didn't trust. They had had a falling out over some shady deal Jesse had done behind MLK's back. He was a wannabe who took advantage of MLK's death to promote himself. The real civil rights leaders who knew he was a liar was afraid to say anything for fear it would set their cause back.
He had a friend ordain him a minister (instead of going throught the rigorous process that determines if the minitry is one's true calling). He dropped out of seminary school. He lied about not being able to play QB in college because he was black. The starting QB was black.
He was a good friend with the most notorious gang leader in Chicago. He used gang members to stage protests and to intimidate people. His half-brother eventually went to jail for his association with the El Rukn gang as well as for killing a man.
Jesse is a con artist who the media accepted and allowed to grow into something he is not. He has used his influence to shakedown corporations for the benefit of himself and his other rich friends. Ask some of the people in Africa what they think of him. They will spit on the ground. He was friends with some of the most vile murders in the world.
He has used race to make himself and his friends rich. Martin Luther King's dream involved a color blind world. Color means everything to Jesse Jackson. It's his trump card. Don't be naive, now.
You had better be careful about that. Thanks to Johnny Cochran, NFL teams are now REQUIRED to interview minorities.
Do a google search on cochran and the NFL. You'll see.
- Jul 26, 2002
- 11,757
- 0
- 71
Originally posted by: friedpie
Originally posted by: Tripleshot
Give up this race crap. We all love our children, love freedom, and bleed red blood. We are all of the brotherhood of man. Give people credit for their works and deeds, not the color of their skin or the slant of their eyes. It's high time the young usher in a new world, void of racism and backbiting of their forfathers. Evertime I see someone jump all over Jessie Jackson, I just want to slap the piss out of them, because #1, they don't listen to what he says, they just bash him because of the color of his skin and the fact he is against racism and for equality. And #2, the fathers have been racist and it has filtered down generation to generation. Time to change. And the change comes from within each and everyone of you. You must make the change in you, and when that is accomplished, this world will be a much better place, and the war we are about to get into will not be necessary again, because respect for human dignity should prevail.
It starts when we teach our children respect , and threads titled like this one do not show respect. If a white man spoke of the same things as Jessie Jackson, would you be so quick to find fault? I don't think so.
You're heart is in the right place but you are mistaken about Jackson. Jesse Jackson is a race hustler. Have you read the book by Bill Sammon? It chronicles how Jesse lied about holding MLK in his arms after he was shot, then proclaiming himself the aire to MLK's legacy. He was a hanger on that MLK didn't trust. They had had a falling out over some shady deal Jesse had done behind MLK's back. He was a wannabe who took advantage of MLK's death to promote himself. The real civil rights leaders who knew he was a liar was afraid to say anything for fear it would set their cause back.
He had a friend ordain him a minister (instead of going throught the rigorous process that determines if the minitry is one's true calling). He dropped out of seminary school. He lied about not being able to play QB in college because he was black. The starting QB was black.
He was a good friend with the most notorious gang leader in Chicago. He used gang members to stage protests and to intimidate people. His half-brother eventually went to jail for his association with the El Rukn gang as well as for killing a man.
Jesse is a con artist who the media accepted and allowed to grow into something he is not. He has used his influence to shakedown corporations for the benefit of himself and his other rich friends. Ask some of the people in Africa what they think of him. They will spit on the ground. He was friends with some of the most vile murders in the world.
He has used race to make himself and his friends rich. Martin Luther King's dream involved a color blind world. Color means everything to Jesse Jackson. It's his trump card. Don't be naive, now.
WOOT WOOT, great post.
"1) Black coaches statistically have better records. Look at the study objectively
2) Nearly 70% of NFL and College football players are black
3) Nearly all NFL head coaches were former players, and are white"
1. More ice cream is sold in hotter months
2. More rapes are committed in the hotter months
Does this mean that ice cream is the cause of rapes? Uh no. You cant just use stats to prove a point.
1. There is a smaller sample of black coaches, you cant compare the averages.
2. The percentage of players that are of a particular race has no bearing on the ability to be a head coach. It is the ABILITY of the individual.
3. No head coach went directly from "player" to head coach. All coaches work their way up through the ranks. Being a good assistant and getting good recommendations from respected football people is what gets them the interview.
4. Owners of football teams like to hire guys that KNOW football, no surprise that they tend to pick ex-players.
While I have no doubt that there are some racist owners, certainly not all of them are. With the exception of the Bengals owner, all of them want to win the Superbowl every year. If a black head coach would get them there, they would hire him. The problem is that black head coaching candidates are doing a good enough job of convincing the owners.
Again, a HC is not just a guy that draws up plays. Being a great player does not mean that you can:
1. get 50+ players to do their best every weekend.
2. Pick good players in the draft.
3. Manage a salary cap.
4. Yuck it up with corporate sponsors
5. Recruit players
6. kiss the owners butt to get the job
7. get along with the media
8. be a good face in the community
9. pick great assistants and get them to do their best.
and so on....
In the end I think you will see that great players dont make good coaches, does Magic Johnson ring a bell?
The current SB coach played at Dayton in college and never made the pros. What he did do was work his butt off for almost nothing for years, slept 4 hours a night, often at the facility and convinced a progressive owner (Al Davis) to give him a shot.
What I see happening here is that:
Owners are loath to take risks, they copy what has worked. That's why so many coaches are recycled and Parcells will always be able to get a job. They would rather take a guy that was recommended by a friend in the business that take a chance on a guy they dont know.
The game is getting more and more complicated and the piss poor public school system has hurt black athletes badly. Because of the poor educational opportunities given them, and the treatment most colleges give to any athlete (ex: bogus passing grades) they lack the skill to handle something as large and complex as a football team. It's alot easier to play than coach, you learn you part of playbook (and how often do we hear that players cant even do that?), instead of designing a playbook. You only take care of yourself instead of every player and every coach.
So when you compare raw number s you get the wrong impression. What you have to compare is the ability of the individuals, how many players are capable of running a team? Once you know that , then you can look at the numbers and break them down and see if there is discrimination. Unfortunately from our point of view, we cant tell who is qualified and who is not, only people in the football business can tell you that.
2) Nearly 70% of NFL and College football players are black
3) Nearly all NFL head coaches were former players, and are white"
1. More ice cream is sold in hotter months
2. More rapes are committed in the hotter months
Does this mean that ice cream is the cause of rapes? Uh no. You cant just use stats to prove a point.
1. There is a smaller sample of black coaches, you cant compare the averages.
2. The percentage of players that are of a particular race has no bearing on the ability to be a head coach. It is the ABILITY of the individual.
3. No head coach went directly from "player" to head coach. All coaches work their way up through the ranks. Being a good assistant and getting good recommendations from respected football people is what gets them the interview.
4. Owners of football teams like to hire guys that KNOW football, no surprise that they tend to pick ex-players.
While I have no doubt that there are some racist owners, certainly not all of them are. With the exception of the Bengals owner, all of them want to win the Superbowl every year. If a black head coach would get them there, they would hire him. The problem is that black head coaching candidates are doing a good enough job of convincing the owners.
Again, a HC is not just a guy that draws up plays. Being a great player does not mean that you can:
1. get 50+ players to do their best every weekend.
2. Pick good players in the draft.
3. Manage a salary cap.
4. Yuck it up with corporate sponsors
5. Recruit players
6. kiss the owners butt to get the job
7. get along with the media
8. be a good face in the community
9. pick great assistants and get them to do their best.
and so on....
In the end I think you will see that great players dont make good coaches, does Magic Johnson ring a bell?
The current SB coach played at Dayton in college and never made the pros. What he did do was work his butt off for almost nothing for years, slept 4 hours a night, often at the facility and convinced a progressive owner (Al Davis) to give him a shot.
What I see happening here is that:
Owners are loath to take risks, they copy what has worked. That's why so many coaches are recycled and Parcells will always be able to get a job. They would rather take a guy that was recommended by a friend in the business that take a chance on a guy they dont know.
The game is getting more and more complicated and the piss poor public school system has hurt black athletes badly. Because of the poor educational opportunities given them, and the treatment most colleges give to any athlete (ex: bogus passing grades) they lack the skill to handle something as large and complex as a football team. It's alot easier to play than coach, you learn you part of playbook (and how often do we hear that players cant even do that?), instead of designing a playbook. You only take care of yourself instead of every player and every coach.
So when you compare raw number s you get the wrong impression. What you have to compare is the ability of the individuals, how many players are capable of running a team? Once you know that , then you can look at the numbers and break them down and see if there is discrimination. Unfortunately from our point of view, we cant tell who is qualified and who is not, only people in the football business can tell you that.
Originally posted by: friedpie
Originally posted by: Tripleshot
Give up this race crap. We all love our children, love freedom, and bleed red blood. We are all of the brotherhood of man. Give people credit for their works and deeds, not the color of their skin or the slant of their eyes. It's high time the young usher in a new world, void of racism and backbiting of their forfathers. Evertime I see someone jump all over Jessie Jackson, I just want to slap the piss out of them, because #1, they don't listen to what he says, they just bash him because of the color of his skin and the fact he is against racism and for equality. And #2, the fathers have been racist and it has filtered down generation to generation. Time to change. And the change comes from within each and everyone of you. You must make the change in you, and when that is accomplished, this world will be a much better place, and the war we are about to get into will not be necessary again, because respect for human dignity should prevail.
It starts when we teach our children respect , and threads titled like this one do not show respect. If a white man spoke of the same things as Jessie Jackson, would you be so quick to find fault? I don't think so.
You're heart is in the right place but you are mistaken about Jackson. Jesse Jackson is a race hustler. Have you read the book by Bill Sammon? It chronicles how Jesse lied about holding MLK in his arms after he was shot, then proclaiming himself the aire to MLK's legacy. He was a hanger on that MLK didn't trust. They had had a falling out over some shady deal Jesse had done behind MLK's back. He was a wannabe who took advantage of MLK's death to promote himself. The real civil rights leaders who knew he was a liar was afraid to say anything for fear it would set their cause back.
He had a friend ordain him a minister (instead of going throught the rigorous process that determines if the minitry is one's true calling). He dropped out of seminary school. He lied about not being able to play QB in college because he was black. The starting QB was black.
He was a good friend with the most notorious gang leader in Chicago. He used gang members to stage protests and to intimidate people. His half-brother eventually went to jail for his association with the El Rukn gang as well as for killing a man.
Jesse is a con artist who the media accepted and allowed to grow into something he is not. He has used his influence to shakedown corporations for the benefit of himself and his other rich friends. Ask some of the people in Africa what they think of him. They will spit on the ground. He was friends with some of the most vile murders in the world.
He has used race to make himself and his friends rich. Martin Luther King's dream involved a color blind world. Color means everything to Jesse Jackson. It's his trump card. Don't be naive, now.
I'm not nieve, my friend. I have lived through racism all my life. I do not automatically subscribe to what you perport as Jessie Jacksons motive just because an antagonist writes a book. Those people are in it for the money. They write whatever sensationalism will get you to buy their book. Jessie Jackson has, by contrast, done alot for equal rights, and keeping racist issues from falling through the cracks, as many would like to see them fall. He has done as much for people of all color as he has done for "just blacks".
So lets at least be fair in our judgement, if we are to judge.
I freely admit I too have what can be construed as racist thoughts at times , mainly when angered by someone of color. As well, I know very well that racism is a two way street, all the way around. You should speak to a native american, and see what they think of all this. Look through there eyes. We still keep them down on reservations, in the desert or some other god forsaken outpost. Blacks and Koreans can live on mainstreet (and do) yet what greater racist thing have we perported on humanity than the unrightous attemted extermination of the American indian?
I have had discussions with blacks that hate whites as bad as any white has ever claimed to hate blacks. I grew up in the southwest and with mexican/americans and illegals. They are as a racist as I, yet across the board, when you sit down and get to know them, they are no different than I or anyone else. I have eaten at their table, and they at mine. Indian, mexican, negro, oriental. I made it a point in my life to try and understand who I was directing my anger at. And once that was realized, all anger abated, and disapated, and compassion and understanding filled the void.
I was a product of my environment, and the values and language I learned was from the only source I had, my parents. And they learned from their parents. And Their parents learned from their parents, back when slavery was common. So these learned responses and in-bread emotions need to stop in order to change "racism" for everyone. I am making that change. I have even forsaken my religion because of my stance on racism. ( That religion has since made the changes I had always hoped for, and I am back faithfully supporting its values). I vehemtently discourage any racist talk or language in my home, and my children are not racist and they let me know if I stray out of line. In otherwords, I have been proactive in my life, not just posting in a forum and giving it lip service with no real intention to change the bad in my life. I believe in redemption, and the attonment.
We can change. We must want to change.
HomeBrewerDude
Lifer
- Jan 18, 2001
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Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
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You know how black kids get some points added to their college applications, ie. U Mich.
Why not give teams with black coaches a touchdown head start?
Why not give teams with black coaches a touchdown head start?
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