Rand Paul has a plan to save Detroit

[K1052]

So is Detroit a 3rd or 4th tier city? If there were jobs there, I think people wouldn't have a problem moving there. So taxes incentives alone might be enough to fix the issues with Detroit. No one want to move there because there are no jobs and the only people that do live there now live off the government or are criminals who live off others as well.

I'll probably go with 4th or 5th in it's current condition. The city itself is a broke mess of a collapsed rust belt city economy. Simply lowering the taxes there isn't going to make the good times suddenly reappear since far larger economic and demographic shifts have been at work. It's like putting new tires on a burned out car.

 

[Matt1970]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Trickle down never has and never will work.

The only thing that trickles down is shit.




"Incentives" don't work. The only thing incentives does is put more money in the rich thugs pockets.

Take todays example:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/shell-scraps-plans-build-12-191642029.html

Shell scraps plans to build $12.5B plant in La.



Shell scraps plan to build $12.5B gas to liquids plant in Louisiana; says project not viable



Royal Dutch Shell has decided to abandon plans to build a massive $12.5 billion plant in Louisiana that would have turned natural gas into liquid fuels like diesel.


The decision comes just two months after Shell selected a site for the plant. It would have created 740 jobs, according to a late-September announcement that championed the plant's location in Ascension Parish, near Baton Rouge.


Shell, based in the Hague, Netherlands, said Thursday that the cost of the plant and the expected profit it could generate made the plant "not a viable option."

Gov. Bobby Jindal's administration had offered an incentive package that included $112 million for road improvements, land purchasing and other infrastructure in Ascension Parish.

=================================================
If you believe they wouldn't make a profit I have a bridge for sale for you too.

$112 million incentive for a $12.5 Billion plant isn't even 1%. That is hardly an incentive.

 

[xBiffx]

I'll probably go with 4th or 5th in it's current condition. The city itself is a broke mess of a collapsed rust belt city economy. Simply lowering the taxes there isn't going to make the good times suddenly reappear since far larger economic and demographic shifts have been at work. It's like putting new tires on a burned out car.

So should nothing be tried?

I think this is worth a shot. As others have said and you have made pretty clear, there isn't much left to lose.

 

[K1052]

So should nothing be tried?

I think this is worth a shot. As others have said and you have made pretty clear, there isn't much left to lose.

Yes, stuff should be tried. Having a competitive tax rate is important but it needs to be kept to a realistic level to pay for city services. Rand Paul's plan is basically "Hope and Change" for Libertarians.

 

[Matt1970]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
There is nothing stopping the "Job Creators" from "creating a working economy" other than their own greed.

Now many of the greedy "Job Creators" have left to ruin other parts of the Country and Detroit is starting the process of healing and coming back.

"Let them leave and it will grow".

Rich Republicans ran it into the ground.

Democrats may be the name on the Clubhouse door but it is the Rich Republicans greed that took all the jobs away.

Oh bullshit. Detroit is the result of piss-poor management and their inability to adjust to the changing times.

 

[BUnit1701]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Trickle down never has and never will work.

The only thing that trickles down is shit.




"Incentives" don't work. The only thing incentives does is put more money in the rich thugs pockets.

Take todays example:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/shell-scraps-plans-build-12-191642029.html

Shell scraps plans to build $12.5B plant in La.



Shell scraps plan to build $12.5B gas to liquids plant in Louisiana; says project not viable



Royal Dutch Shell has decided to abandon plans to build a massive $12.5 billion plant in Louisiana that would have turned natural gas into liquid fuels like diesel.


The decision comes just two months after Shell selected a site for the plant. It would have created 740 jobs, according to a late-September announcement that championed the plant's location in Ascension Parish, near Baton Rouge.


Shell, based in the Hague, Netherlands, said Thursday that the cost of the plant and the expected profit it could generate made the plant "not a viable option."

Gov. Bobby Jindal's administration had offered an incentive package that included $112 million for road improvements, land purchasing and other infrastructure in Ascension Parish.

=================================================
If you believe they wouldn't make a profit I have a bridge for sale for you too.

So, your contending the only reason Shell didn't build the plant is because they are evil greedy bastards who didn't want to pay 740 salaries?

 

[berzerker60]

I'm shocked, shocked to hear a Republican say that lower taxes will fix the (and any possible) problem.

Next week, Rand Paul will announce that if Oklahoma would simply reduce its strangling 4.5% sales tax, innovators would have the incentive to prevent tornados and businesses would flock to the state, curing cancer and giving everyone a pony.

 

[xBiffx]

Yes, stuff should be tried. Having a competitive tax rate is important but it needs to be kept to a realistic level to pay for city services. Rand Paul's plan is basically "Hope and Change" for Libertarians.

Guess we don't have to worry then seeing is Detroit is overrun by Libertarians.

 

[Moonbeam]

Rand Paul...............POTUS.................LMAO!!!!!!

I see a person in the grips of a fanatical religious belief of the cult variety, maybe like a horse after a carrot the mind projects in front of him, sleepwalking in a dream. I'd LOL too but it gives me the heepie jeebies.

 

[BoberFett]

The fall of Detroit is not really the fault of Democrats, the auto industry changed.

How they dealt with it is the fault of Democrats.

If the only solution known to Republicans is to lower taxes, then the only solution known to Democrats is to raise taxes. Raising taxes was great a plan, if they wanted to prevent new investment from coming in and taking advantage of their skilled manufacturing workforce.

 

[boomerang]

The fall of Detroit is not really the fault of Democrats, the auto industry changed.

How they dealt with it is the fault of Democrats.

If the only solution known to Republicans is to lower taxes, then the only solution known to Democrats is to raise taxes. Raising taxes was great a plan, if they wanted to prevent new investment from coming in and taking advantage of their skilled manufacturing workforce.

I read the article Exterous linked to and I learned that Democrats also like to borrow money to postpone the inevitable. Detroit, DC, the same methods apply. I'm sure it's going to work at the federal level though.

 

[WHAMPOM]

He's not all that far off, if you read his plan. He might just be able to save that city, if he can get some support behind his ideas. If he can show some results, he may be a very strong contender for POTUS in 2016.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...e-of-americas-firmest-democratic-strongholds/

And how would this compete against manufacturing plants built to order by Government expense and abundant low wage workers in China?

 

[WHAMPOM]

The fall of Detroit is not really the fault of Democrats, the auto industry changed.

How they dealt with it is the fault of Democrats.

If the only solution known to Republicans is to lower taxes, then the only solution known to Democrats is to raise taxes. Raising taxes was great a plan, if they wanted to prevent new investment from coming in and taking advantage of their skilled manufacturing workforce.

What skilled workforce? It takes skill to assemble parts? From China and Mexican parts?

 

[senseamp]

Nice to see GOP reaching out to the same urban voters who they are trying to gerrymander and discourage from voting.

 

[BoberFett]

What skilled workforce? It takes skill to assemble parts? From China and Mexican parts?

Whether or not you recognize it as such, skills for building cars such as welding and maintaining manufacturing equipment ARE valuable labor skills.

 

[berzerker60]

The fall of Detroit is not really the fault of Democrats, the auto industry changed.

How they dealt with it is the fault of Democrats.

If the only solution known to Republicans is to lower taxes, then the only solution known to Democrats is to raise taxes. Raising taxes was great a plan, if they wanted to prevent new investment from coming in and taking advantage of their skilled manufacturing workforce.

I agree that the Democrats in Detroit have been completely incompetent. I just get sick of people parroting the line (not that you were, but the thread's premise in general as well as in the media) that Rand Paul is some kind of 'serious budget wonk' when all he does is regurgitate the same party line of 'cut cut cut no don't pay attention to how that just makes deficits much worse, it will all magically be better.'

 

[Moonbeam]

Whether or not you recognize it as such, skills for building cars such as welding and maintaining manufacturing equipment ARE valuable labor skills.

Not to mention the work ethic such people develop as well as the self respect that comes with earning a living.

 

[boomerang]

What skilled workforce? It takes skill to assemble parts? From China and Mexican parts?

Electricians
Pipefitters
Die Makers
Machinists
Millwrights
Tool Makers

That's a smattering of the skilled labor it takes to keep an auto plant running. Real life is nowhere near as simple as you've been taught.

 

[dmcowen674]

Bottom line is after purposely letting cities rot the Corporate Thugs are moving back for the Firesale rates.

All of this is happening because of the mentality of Corporation first, Country last.

Nothing to do with what party name is on top of the Clubhouse doors at the time.

12-6-2013

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/companies-goodbye-burbs-004800326.html

Companies Say Goodbye to the 'Burbs



Motorola will join United Continental Holdings Inc., Hillshire Brands Co.—the successor to Sara Lee Corp.— and other corporate giants abandoning vast suburban campuses for urban offices nearer to the young, educated and hyper-connected workers who will lead their businesses into the digital age. Archer Daniels Midland Co. recently said it would move its headquarters from Decatur, Ill., and in the Bay Area, startups like Pinterest Inc. are departing Silicon Valley for San Francisco.

After decades of big businesses leaving the city for the suburbs, U.S. firms have begun a new era of corporate urbanism. Nearly 200 Fortune 500 companies are currently headquartered in the top 50 cities.

Many others are staying put in the suburbs but opening high-profile satellite offices in nearby cities, sometimes aided by tax breaks and a recession that tempered downtown rents

 

[sm625]

If they are able to discharge most of those outrageous pension obligations then they will not need a high tax rate in order to provide services. If you look at most of the cost of city services, it is pensions and administrative (ie do-nothing job) salaries.... People have tolerated these parasites for 30+ years and they let them grow totally out of control. It's even worse in schools. Each district has almost as many administrators as teachers, and these are all do-nothing parasitic loads on the taxpayer.

 

[Matt1970]

Bottom line is after purposely letting cities rot the Corporate Thugs are moving back for the Firesale rates.

All of this is happening because of the mentality of Corporation first, Country last.

Detroit fell in the shithole because Americans no longer buy American made cars from American compainies. In 1980 the big 3 accounted for over 75% of all auto sales in the US. in 2012 it' around 45%. Detroit decided hiking taxes and spending more would somehow magically get them out of the shithole.

Here read up

http://www.freep.com/interactive/ar...-Bankruptcy-history-1950-debt-pension-revenue

 

[jackstar7]

Detroit fell in the shithole because Americans no longer buy American made cars from American compainies. In 1980 the big 3 accounted for over 75% of all auto sales in the US. in 2012 it' around 45%. Detroit decided hiking taxes and spending more would somehow magically get them out of the shithole.

It didn't help that those American car makers were making shitty cars.

 

[Spungo]

Yes, stuff should be tried. Having a competitive tax rate is important but it needs to be kept to a realistic level to pay for city services. Rand Paul's plan is basically "Hope and Change" for Libertarians.

1. cut off all welfare benefits
2. wait for winter
3. ?
4. win


I think the hope is that America can be as prosperous as Singapore or Hong Kong by adopting similar free market policies. Wiki's page for Singapore has a nice chart showing how capitalism is supposed to work when it's not bastardized by overwhelming government corruption.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Singapore
year and Singapore's PPP per capita relative to the US.
1980 55.00
1985 63.41
1990 74.76
1995 90.60
2000 91.48
2005 103.03
2007 107.92
2008 107.27
2009 108.33
2010 119.54
Over 30 years their purchasing power went from 55% of ours to 120% of ours.

 

[Incorruptible]

Good for Rand Paul on actually bringing ideas to fix the problems. Much better than obamas idiotic idea of a bailout.

 

[yllus]

Good for Rand Paul on actually bringing ideas to fix the problems. Much better than obamas idiotic idea of a bailout.

Yeah, letting the top three companies in the city melt away into nothingness - brilliant plan. That'd really have turned Detroit around.

I think you could set an atomic clock by how often you get something wrong.