Rampage will be out at summer 2001 its too late for 3dfx?

Hardware

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Actual its like a deja vu V3000 vs TNT2 now V5500 vs Radeon and GTS!
Now with FSAA a mainstream technology 3dfx is missing now the advanced features like HyperZ,T&L,etc...
As we see more and more advanced games with t&l support the V5500 will fall behind more and more
Have you read Toms conclusion about the 32bit bottleneck of the V5500?

http://www.chip.de/PC2D/PC2DA/PC2DAG/pc2dag.htm?id=2317
 

rudi

Member
Nov 11, 1999
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3dfx is dead....they are way behind the current technology. Look only at their cards....big like you were looking an EGA adapter from 15 years back and there is also that energy consumption....and price of cource! When rampage comes out....who knows what nvidia will have then. 3dfx days were over after their v3 series release.
 

zippy

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 1999
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Look at the specs...up to 512MB of GDR (whatever GDR is...)...8 chips (4 Rampage and 4 T&L)...300 million triangles/sec.

That looks pretty damn good.

The X-box with nVidia's card is only gonna do 300million triangles and comes out Xmas of 2001.

BTW, the V3 was a best selling card since it came out to just a lil while ago. 3dfx is far from dead.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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3dfx has to play catchupgame if it wants to stay alive, maybe speedwise it can compete with the rest but when it comes to fetures 3dfx is 1-2 years behind.

The industry knows that 3dfx is nearly dead, why doesnt the buyers? By the time Rampage is out and it is 2 times slower than everything else, 3dfx fans will still buy it and 3dfx fans will still go on saying that 3dfx's next product will be the best.
 

Prodigy^

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
4,044
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OH COME ON!

the V5 5500 is still a fast card, and I cannot preach enough how most reviewers praise it for image quality, which is what I (that was a capital-capital i) want on my P3 750. I don't need 16bit color, and I don't care for the extre 10-20% performance

and yes, 3dfx still sells very nicely......and you're forgetting that the V3 was prolly one of the best PCI cards out there, and still kicks mongo ass in glide.....

geh!

AND, the Rampage can't do anything but kick ass :)
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
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Since when is Tom 'I hate 3dfx' a source for any kind of information regarding 3dfx and their schedules? As far as I know 3dfx isn't even on speaking terms with Tom 'I'm on nvidia's payroll'. Tom doesn't know jacksh!t about anything 3dfx is planning, doing or accomplishing. Tom is an idiot, he should go back to proctollogy.
 

SSP

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
17,727
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3DFX have brand recognition.

A friend of mine who bought the V5 5500 said see fell in love with the card when she saw it... whatever the f*ck that means (maybe the purty pictures on the box convinced her?). She doesn?t know much about video cards... didn?t even know what FSAA is until I told her about them.

EDIT - hope she didn?t read this. If she did, she'll skin me alive. ;)
 

Goi

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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3dfx isn't "dead". It still has the 2nd fastest card in the market, even if it is overpriced.
 

SSP

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
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I think Radeon took the 2nd fastest spot (maybe even 1st?). Not they have the 3rd fastest card.
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
16,968
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Let's address a few common issues, shall we?

1) Price. People keep saying that the V5 is overpriced. Actually, people keep saying that all cutting edge cards are overpriced. Are you aware that $300 has been the price for the latest videocards since the Voodoo1? The Riva128 was also priced at $289, when it first came out. Maybe $300 is too much for a particular person, but that's the price point that the market bears. (See: Economics 101)

2) Will somebody PLEEAASSE explain to me why the V5 is such an inferior card? And don't bother throwing out 640x480 Q3 benchmarks. I couldn't give a rat's @ss about 640x480. Give me some 1280x1024x32 benchmarks, since this is the resolution that I use for Q3. And guess what? The GTS beats the V5 by a whopping 3.2fps! Not a big deal.
2a)Let's talk T&L, since that seems to be the next card that the nVidia zealots pull from the deck. Another case of "whoop-dee-do." There are barely any games that support T&L, NONE that are optimized for it, and NONE that require it. The games that support it, still do just fine on a V5. MDK2 comes to mind. I play it at 1024x768x32 resolution, with 2xFSAA enabled.

2b) The power source and multiple chips. Another big issue on the minds of the nVidia zealots. I lump these two together, because they are a non-issue. So what if it has two chips on the one board. So what if it uses a power source. So what? The card has been in my machine for some time... and guess what? It frickin' works. So please explain to me (reality, not your theory), as to why I give a crap if the card has dual chips on it or if it uses a power source.

Let's see what the V5 has OVER it's competition... Playable FSAA. And for anyone who says FSAA is not a worthy feature, I'm guessing that you've never used it. Sure, in FPS games it's not worth using, so then I just turn it off. (Then, I'm a whopping 3.2fps behind the GTS crowd.) But in other games such as NFS5, MDK2, NHL2k, etc... it's awsome. I'll never go back to non-FSAA. For those of you who've never played using FSAA, give me the benefit of the doubt when I say that screenshots will never do FSAA justice.

UT engine games. The fact that 3dfx cards can run games like Unreal Tournament, Deus Ex, and Duke Nuke 'Em Forever better than the competition is not even arguable. Blame it on the game engine if you will, but facts are facts. Those that argue not to blame nVidia, but just to blame the game engine... why don't you ask why nVidia chose not to support GLide? Or why they chose not to design their card to run the UT engine better?

Compatibility. I have yet to see the requirement to download a specific .dll file to make my V5 run acceptably in any game. I have yet to find a game where FSAA didn't work exceptionally well. 2D quality is excellent. I haven't ever had to work at getting a new 3dfx driver installed properly.

(Hardware, put that in your crack pipe and smoke it. How about an intelligent reply to my points? And please spare me of your forum-generated BS rumors. They are getting old.
 

SuperFreaky

Golden Member
Nov 1, 1999
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"The Riva128 was also priced at $289"
I bought mine the day it came out for $159.99 at computer city!
 

KarlHungus

Senior member
Nov 16, 1999
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FSAA is going to be obsolete anyways. High poly, high resolution scenes (1024 and higher) will make it unnecessary.

Completely wrong. IMHO FSAA is only necessary when rendering power outstrips screen resolution. This case has been reached with consoles due to the low resolutions most TVs support (640x480). It has not happened (yet) in the case of computer monitors where most monitors can do 1280x1024 with no problems. FSAA will be useful in the future, it's just right now there's just not enough fillrate/memory bandwidth to make it practical for PCs.

 

KarlHungus

Senior member
Nov 16, 1999
638
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I'm not saying that polygons are not necessary, but to get something like Toy Story or Bug's Life in real time you need 2 things: hardware T&L and massive oversampling.
 

brian_riendeau

Platinum Member
Oct 15, 1999
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I had a Voodoo5 and now I have a GTS card. The Voodoo5 is far from being a bad card. I honestly have no idea of how the Voodoo5 got such a bad name. People say 3dfx owners are zealots but I find the oposite true more often than not. The Voodoo5 It is a good card that is very competitive with the GTS. After playing all kinds of games on my home PC, I wish I still had the Voodoo5 since I have grown to like FSAA.
 

steelthorn

Senior member
Jul 2, 2000
252
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I had a creative labs geforece ddr card and then I switched to the Voodoo5 5500 and I like the voodoo far more than then geforce. It is a much better card and is more compatible with all the games out there. Voodoo is not dead!
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
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The V5 5500 isn't a bad card. It's just that the GF2 is better. Both are valid choices.

As for image quality, at least from the shots I've seen, the GF2 is better in 3D. Somewhere there was talk of a "mip level" adjustment for the V5 which brings its quality up to GF2 standards without much drop in performance.

FSAA is a good idea. I also hate the full scene blurred effect but for some games it's worth it. We need some form of anti-aliasing that just touches up the parts of the scene that need it. The GF2 and V5 5500 can both run FSAA fine in some games but not all. When more demanding titles come out this fall/winter, many folk with turn off FSAA cuz the performance hit will be dreadful. Next generation of cards (excluding the radeon) will have the umpf for fsaa. I still think we need a better technique though.
 

Auric

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
9,591
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Zippy:
"BTW, the V3 was a best selling card since it came out to just a lil while ago. 3dfx is far from dead."

That's a useless comparative statistic. If the ViRGE had only been available on a card from S3 it prolly would have been the best selling card for years let alone months. As it was it must have been the best selling chip anyway which is a claim 3dfx can't make. Think about the competition: the other major card makers mostly do OEM sales so beating their retail card volume is no feat. It's not too difficult to imagine 3dfx's place in comparative OEM sales or better yet total chip sales volume. Ah, now we begin to see that 3dfx didn't actually do as well as their PR doublethink would have us believe. Worse, being that they were quickly relegated to the low-end retail market meant they didn't make much money on what they sold anyway. At this point all they have is a quickly diminishing brand, some quickly low-end bound cards (yet again), some manufacturing, and some questionable plans. Death is a safer bet than life.
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
16,968
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<< Here ya go:
Its a bit more then 3.2fps. Its even worse when you compare the radeon 32bit performance to V5 5.5k.
>>

--SSP

Looking at those links that SSP posted above... At 1280x1024x32:
Athlon750: GTS = 45.3fps, V5 = 42.1fps. A difference of 3.2fps.
Athlon550: GTS = 45.1fps, V5 = 42.3fps. A difference of 2.8fps.
 

SPAnDAU

Senior member
Oct 15, 1999
677
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SSP -- In those benchmarks you linked to, the performance difference between the V5, GF2 and Radeon averaged 8 FPS or so in 32bit. This isn't a big enough difference to even be considered an issue.


Edit -- Gotta learn to refresh after a long thread before I post ;)
 

Hardware

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,580
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What I cant understand with 3dfx:
All resolutions above 1280X1024 in DirectX are singlechip only (only 50% fillrate)
I would call this a serious bug. How can this one escape the testing?
No game or at least a demo out for the rest of the T-Buffer features!
Each time there are some problems you will hear from the support line &quot;...format your hard drive and make a clean install..&quot; How about a better driver installer 3dfx?

I wouldnt buy a Radeon now because right now we are starting to see t&amp;l games comming up!
Radeon special features are not used now so why buy it?
ATi made a little mistake with a 3 texture engine with todays 2 texture games why?

Maybe 3dfx was right with the V3000 not to use t&amp;l but now the time is ready and the V5500 is not!
With t&amp;l its not speed its visual quality
Take a look to the Reverend!
http://www.voodooextreme.com/reverend/Reviews/nVidia_GF2GTS/2.html



One extra word: I do not own any stocks! I told my brother to buy ATi stocks (went straight from $20 to $8 thats life!)
I am always ready to buy a new hardware so I am not brand addicted

 

Marty

Banned
Oct 11, 1999
1,534
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That site is hust posting the same specs that were invented by some Italian site. It even states that the specs are from other sites on the web. This is not believable info. Just MHO.

Marty
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
16,968
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People... Just because Hardware starts a thread, and comes up with some dramatic title, DOES NOT make it fact. Haven't we seen enough gibberish to learn this?
 

Guardian

Member
May 26, 2000
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Hardware, you need to pull your ass out of Nividia's ass and realise that there's a completely different world out there. How can the Radeon be a joke because of it's 3 texture engine? It handles 2 texture games just as well as the GTS which means that as far as the future goes the Radeon will then proceed to wipe the floor with the GTS in 3 texture games......or atleast it should. And what about all the other features the Radeon packs and all for only $290 for a 64ddr version at online stores. Come on dude.......THINK.