Raising the Minimum Wage to $9.00

[Matt1970]

How many "trade" jobs do you think there are?

The trades are just one example. When you get skills, you are in demand and will make more money.

 

[CPA]

Remember they made the same arguments before it was raised to $7.25, and they'll make the same arguments when they want it raised to $13, $15 or whatever amount is next in line.

 

[Mani]

I'm honestly not sure what to make of this - I think those in favor and those against both make theoretical arguments and there's no clear evidence that falls on one side or enother.

The "in favor" crowd believes higher wages means more low-wage people will have more income -> more spending -> better economy, whereas the "against" people think businesses keep more money -> healthier business -> better economy. If I had to fall on one side, it would be on the wage-earner but not by a lot. There will be businesses that will suffer from this, and it will impact the prices of goods and services.

 

[OCGuy]

How many of those jobs do you think there are? 50 million Americans are currently under the poverty line.

How many of those 50,000,000 are actively looking for work? Or how many are sitting back on the government cheese and truly do not want to work?

Make them earn food-stamps and welfare. Put people to work for society. Clean up highways, community service.

You can earn a living in this country if you truly want to. You may not get to have all the cool material possessions as some Americans, but that is the way the world works.

 

[child of wonder]

When some people are failing to earn a decent living the answer isn't to keep raising the floor. People need something to strive for and earning minimum wage is supposed to be the bottom of the barrel. It's not supposed to be a "living wage."

 

[blankslate]

I'm honestly not sure what to make of this - I think those in favor and those against both make theoretical arguments and there's no clear evidence that falls on one side or enother.

The "in favor" crowd believes higher wages means more low-wage people will have more income -> more spending -> better economy, whereas the "against" people think businesses keep more money -> healthier business -> better economy. If I had to fall on one side, it would be on the wage-earner but not by a lot. There will be businesses that will suffer from this, and it will impact the prices of goods and services.

*If* the information in this article bears scrutiny...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/19/low-wage-workers-_n_1687271.html

Contrary to what many people believe, most low-wage workers aren't employed by small businesses or mom-and-pop operations, but instead by large corporations that have enjoyed healthy profits amid a sluggish economy, according to a new report issued Thursday.

The report, put out by the left-leaning National Employment Law Project, found that two-thirds of America's low-wage workers work for companies with more than a hundred employees, such as Walmart, McDonald's and Yum! Brands, parent company of Taco Bell, Pizza Hut and KFC.

then it might be that the majority of employers who utilize minimum wage workers aren't mom and pop businesses but larger ones that can better absorb the costs of raising the minimum wage.

More information about this is needed from other sources to verify the Huffington Post article.

 

[nehalem256]

When some people are failing to earn a decent living the answer isn't to keep raising the floor. People need something to strive for and earning minimum wage is supposed to be the bottom of the barrel. It's not supposed to be a "living wage."

Liberals go beyond that. They want it to be a living wage for a family* of 3.

*where "family" is defined to consist of a mother and 2 children.

 

[child of wonder]

Liberals go beyond that. They want it to be a living wage for a family* of 3.

*where "family" is defined to consist of a mother and 2 children.

If we're concerned about mothers having children they can't afford then I'd fully support the government subsidizing birth control so anyone can have it at no cost. Plus we should be reforming welfare so it can only be used to assist with feeding the children rather than cash benefits the mother can use for new shoes.

Bottom line is we need to help those with minimum wage jobs lift themselves up, rather than raising the floor.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

The arguments in favor of this don't make a lot of sense. People are making statements like "There is no way that you could raise a family of four on just $7.25 an hour!" Wait a minute, what? Why would you? If you are making so little money, why would you think that it is a good idea to have children in the first place? Minimum wage jobs are not meant to raise an entire family off of. They are meant for high school kids to work their way up and get some experience before they get real jobs later on. I started out in a very low paying jobs, making less than $9, but now that I graduated college, my salary is much, much higher. That's the way it is supposed to work.

I don't understand why liberals can't see this.
Are they that stupid?

 

[Zorkorist]

Liberals want the guy flipping hamburgers to make the same wage as a Doctor.

This is Communism.

One guy flips burgers, and the other guy Doctors.

-John

 

[berzerker60]

Because children aren't always planned, especially in places where children are never taught about birth control and family planning. Then those same pregnant girls are very strongly pressured to have the kids rather than abort them, but then the social safety net is constantly under pressure to leave them without any support for those kids after they're born. Some of us actually care for those less fortunate than ourselves, but we're constantly being shat upon by "Christians."

Also, in what world are minimum wage jobs "meant for high school kids"? Jobs aren't "meant" for anyone, nobody's planning this out from the top. When there's high unemployment - which means, by definition, lots of people actively trying to find a job, not lazing around - any job is for anyone who can get it. We have labor laws because this country's history is absolutely full of corporations being completely shitty to their workers, to the extent of literally murdering union organizers and having children work in coal mines for pennies per hour. No magical 'free market solutions' drove up those wages or sent the kids to schools where they could actually achieve their potential, it was necessary government that made the labor market MORE free by allowing for children to develop their potential in schools even if they were born into poverty. The absence of 'government control' aka regulation isn't freedom, it's just as often 'corporate control.' That's no better.

Liberals want the guy flipping hamburgers to make the same wage as a Doctor.

This is Communism.

One guy flips burgers, and the other guy Doctors.

-John

Literally no one is arguing this. Going to extremes is stupid. But we're at the other extreme currently, which is just as awful, where CEOS who drive companies into the gutter get absurdly rich and workers in profitable companies get their pay cut in real terms with flimsy excuses while the bosses get bonuses.

 

[Zorkorist]

I was talking about minimum wage, which is a purely Government driven thing.

If you want to talk about rich ceo's, I can do that too... but it is a completely different discusion from Government mandated minimum wage.

-John

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Liberals want the guy flipping hamburgers to make the same wage as a Doctor.

You claim to be an Objectivist, but sometimes you make some of the most retarded comments. What kind of self-proclaimed "advocate of reason" makes paper-thin strawman arguments?

Your dogmatism makes me embarrassed to have once been a Student of Objectivism.

 

[Zorkorist]

One doesn't simply, eschew Objectivism.

I am guilty of using poetic license.

-John

 

[Ausm]

Junior mechanics (no experience) where I work start off at $18/hr. Non-union as well.

Now I know why they charge me 75 bucks/hr to work on my car.

 

[soulcougher73]

Liberals want the guy flipping hamburgers to make the same wage as a Doctor.

This is Communism.

One guy flips burgers, and the other guy Doctors.

-John

Find me just one that thinks this way.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Now I know why they charge me 75 bucks/hr to work on my car.

The company for whom I work doesn't manufacture cars, they manufacture industrial steam turbines and compressors. They charge $185 to $195 a hour depending on the services/repairs provided. They charge clients $250/hour for the first 8 hours and $350 beyond that for my technical services.

 

[T9D]

What cost $4.25 in 1992 would cost $6.85 now

That's what I made when I was in school and making minimum wage when I started in California (which was already higher than other states). If we stayed there and worked harder we'd get raises. That's insane that just anybody would be getting a few dollars more than that (equivalent) now. The food prices there would have definitely gone up to cover that.

And as a landlord I'll be able to raise rents because people will be paying more. When I use labor I'll probably go find the Mexican down the street who won't be raising his minimum. But the other people and kids will want a lot more since the minimum wage is higher.

 

[infoiltrator]

People on minimum wage a) spend it, which stimulates economy, or b) are in a situation where they able to save it for major purchase, higher education.
Why is this bad?
Every profession expects raises and benefits. Expenses always go up?
Costs of necessities like auto insurance go up.
There are also the disabled and seniors working minimum wage.

Yes this puts pressure on businesses they depend on minimum wage earners.
These either can cope with costs or be replaced by businesses which can.
Capitalism.

Minimum wage should be an incentive to work. Too low discourages work.
OTOH
There are far too many applicants for minimum age jobs as is.
Yes losing any would be a hardship.
No easy answer.

 

[Matt1970]

People on minimum wage a) spend it, which stimulates economy, or b) are in a situation where they able to save it for major purchase, higher education.
Why is this bad?
Every profession expects raises and benefits. Expenses always go up?
Costs of necessities like auto insurance go up.
There are also the disabled and seniors working minimum wage.

Yes this puts pressure on businesses they depend on minimum wage earners.
These either can cope with costs or be replaced by businesses which can.
Capitalism.

Minimum wage should be an incentive to work. Too low discourages work.
OTOH
There are far too many applicants for minimum age jobs as is.
Yes losing any would be a hardship.
No easy answer.

There is no stimulating when all you are really doing is taking money out of the business owners pocket to pay a higher wage. He was going to spend that money regardless.

 

[Ausm]

There is no stimulating when all you are really doing is taking money out of the business owners pocket to pay a higher wage. He was going to spend that money regardless.

Yeah just look at the Trillions Big Biz is sitting on....:whiste:

 

[blankslate]

Yeah just look at the Trillions Big Biz is sitting on....

Corporations are people and money is speech... how dare you want to deprive them of the ability to bu... *ahem* speak out for the best candidates in the next national election.

 

[Veliko]

The arguments in favor of this don't make a lot of sense. People are making statements like "There is no way that you could raise a family of four on just $7.25 an hour!" Wait a minute, what? Why would you? If you are making so little money, why would you think that it is a good idea to have children in the first place?

I think you need to start reading up on biology, and all the other things that make us human.

 

[Veliko]

Literally no one is arguing this. Going to extremes is stupid. But we're at the other extreme currently, which is just as awful, where CEOS who drive companies into the gutter get absurdly rich and workers in profitable companies get their pay cut in real terms with flimsy excuses while the bosses get bonuses.

Bingo!

Unfortunately, you're arguing with people who say that the rich and the wealthy need more money and more benefits in order to motivate them to keep working, whilst the peons at the bottom need to be given less money and less benefits in order to motivate them to keep working.

 

[Mani]

*If* the information in this article bears scrutiny...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/19/low-wage-workers-_n_1687271.html


then it might be that the majority of employers who utilize minimum wage workers aren't mom and pop businesses but larger ones that can better absorb the costs of raising the minimum wage.

More information about this is needed from other sources to verify the Huffington Post article.

Yep, I think that's an interesting point. I would agree that the companies affected would largely be able to absorb the hit, but would they then pass the costs on to consumers to preserve their profit margins? I am guessing at least some of the additional cost will be passed on to the consumer.