Raising the Minimum Wage to $9.00

[TalonStrike]

The arguments in favor of this don't make a lot of sense. People are making statements like "There is no way that you could raise a family of four on just $7.25 an hour!" Wait a minute, what? Why would you? If you are making so little money, why would you think that it is a good idea to have children in the first place? Minimum wage jobs are not meant to raise an entire family off of. They are meant for high school kids to work their way up and get some experience before they get real jobs later on. I started out in a very low paying jobs, making less than $9, but now that I graduated college, my salary is much, much higher. That's the way it is supposed to work.

 

[OCGuy]

People truly have no idea the negative effect that raising the minimum wage has. The cost of goods goes up, businesses can't hire new people, so it all cancels out in the end.

It's like a drug...you keep needing to increase your dose to get the same effect.

 

[SheHateMe]

How is San Francisco doing. Isn't their minimum wage higher than the national average?

 

[TalonStrike]

How is San Francisco doing. Isn't their minimum wage higher than the national average?

San Francisco is a somewhat poor example. Not every city can be right next to Silicon Valley and a booming tech industry.

 

[nehalem256]

(1) I have no idea how Obama came up with $9.00.

(2) Obama claimed that a family with 2 kids making minimum wage will be below the poverty line. This is only true if you are defining a family to not include a father.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/13/o...ms-about-the-minimum-wages-impact-on-poverty/

(3) It is called minimum wage. Not "Raise a family" wage.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

People truly have no idea the negative effect that raising the minimum wage has. The cost of goods goes up, businesses can't hire new people, so it all cancels out in the end.

It's like a drug...you keep needing to increase your dose to get the same effect.

What the fuck is this shit? Indirect affects?


Look man, raising the minimum wage is simple. It gives those poh poh workers that slave moh moneh. They needs that ya see?

Coming here with that "indirect effects" shit. That has no PLACE in politics, especially when it comes to liberals and what their claimed solutions are :awe:

 

[LunarRay]

Don't presume that business will hire folks for the sake of hiring them. They will employ to meet the demand for their product or service.

Minimum wage seeks to enable a social construct. It also has an increase demand function in the short term. The psychological aspects of working for 9$ versus 7$ does provide the motivation for the youth to work instead of standing on the corner... Not much of one but a bit anyhow.

Family aged folks who've developed their skill or finished their education goals, the aged and disabled are not directly affected in the short term but will be over time as prices rise to provide profit incentive to business investment.

The simple fact is that prices have risen without a corresponding rise in the income of most all segments of the earning population on average.

The largest expense for a full time minimum wage worker is their Rent... Followed by their Food...
What happens when a person can't afford Rent or Food? Who cares about them?

We seem to have moved into a mind set that indicates the young and the old are expendable in a society who gripe about 1% additional income tax to deal with a social imperative.

 

[Nintendesert]

I think North Dakota is a great example of all the bad that happens when you raise minimum wage. Too much money has a very negative effect on the overall economy. For North Dakota I'm talking to oil boom and what it does to all other businesses and also things like rent.

Raising the minimum wage should be great for the low end worker if people weren't going to be so willing to take advantage of that increased money in rent/food/services.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Don't presume that business will hire folks for the sake of hiring them. They will employ to meet the demand for their product or service.

Minimum wage seeks to enable a social construct. It also has an increase demand function in the short term. The psychological aspects of working for 9$ versus 7$ does provide the motivation for the youth to work instead of standing on the corner... Not much of one but a bit anyhow.

Family aged folks who've developed their skill or finished their education goals, the aged and disabled are not directly affected in the short term but will be over time as prices rise to provide profit incentive to business investment.

The simple fact is that prices have risen without a corresponding rise in the income of most all segments of the earning population on average.

The largest expense for a full time minimum wage worker is their Rent... Followed by their Food...
What happens when a person can't afford Rent or Food? Who cares about them?

We seem to have moved into a mind set that indicates the young and the old are expendable in a society who gripe about 1% additional income tax to deal with a social imperative.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this is where the rest of the educated world is calling you a dumbass.

You know those guys that work in the office of the apartments they pay rent at? Yeah, those people are now going to have their wages raised all around the apartment companies locations nationally.

How about the guys that they hire to clean the swimming pool? Raises up
How about the guys that walk around putting flyers on your door showing the rent is increasing? Their pay is up.

We seem to have moved into this mindset that everything will stand still. That no one else will be affected, and companies will merrily raise Bubbah by $2/hr for no given reason They will naturally just take it as a loss. And the investors won't mind, noooooo they don't own part of the company in order to improve profit margins, nope, nope, nope.

 

[NoStateofMind]

This isn't the first thread in P&N over this recent issue. The argument stands that when you raise the minimum wage you will (in time) increase costs for all things which will result in another minimum wage hike. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you wanna help the working poor stop check jacking them with income taxes. No one wants to hear that though. Sigh

 

[Slew Foot]

and they guy who's making 9/hr now will want a $2/hr raise, and so will everyone else up the chain.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I think North Dakota is a great example of all the bad that happens when you raise minimum wage. Too much money has a very negative effect on the overall economy. For North Dakota I'm talking to oil boom and what it does to all other businesses and also things like rent.

The problem in the oil fields is a sudden influx of workers creating an almost instantaneous population boom resulting in a housing shortage. It's the housing shortage that drives the high costs in that area.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

One of the problems with the knee-jerk free market dogmatists' argument against the minimum wage is that they assume that inflation will increase by the same percentage as the increase in the minimum wage and thus poor workers will not actually benefit. This is false because a minimum wage increase isn't going to result in proportional inflation.

The prices for goods and services produced by minimum wage workers might increase, but there's no reason to think that the prices of other goods and services will increase. So overall it is a net gain for the poor workers. Instead, it's the wealthier "I've got mine, f-you" middle class and upper middle class people who will end up paying the higher prices without a gain.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

...but now that I graduated college, my salary is much, much higher. That's the way it is supposed to work.

Sadly, attainment of a college degree no longer guarantees a secure middle class income and career. In fact, a great many college graduates are unemployed or undermployed-and-involuntarily-out-of-field, including people with degrees in STEM fields and professional degrees.

It's quite possible to earn a college degree or even a professional degree and end up impoverished as a result of underemployment and student loan debt.

 

[OCGuy]

This isn't the first thread in P&N over this recent issue. The argument stands that when you raise the minimum wage you will (in time) increase costs for all things which will result in another minimum wage hike. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you wanna help the working poor stop check jacking them with income taxes. No one wants to hear that though. Sigh

The working poor pay no income tax. They pay into SS and medicare. All of their income tax withholdings are refunded to them when they file, if they are too ignorant to claim the correct amount on their W-4.

Are you saying they should not pay into SS and Medicare, yet still expect to recieve these benefits (as if SS will exist anyway)? SS is already an upside-down pyramid.

As far as college, that is the next bubble. I am glad I ended up where I did without being saddled with student debt and making..errrr...a tad more....then those with all sorts of perpetual student pieces of paper.

 

[nehalem256]

The prices for goods and services produced by minimum wage workers might increase, but there's no reason to think that the prices of other goods and services will increase. So overall it is a net gain for the poor workers. Instead, it's the wealthier "I've got mine, f-you" middle class and upper middle class people who will end up paying the higher prices without a gain.

So you are saying that raising the minimum wage hurts the middle class :hmm:

 

[NoStateofMind]

The working poor pay no income tax. They pay into SS and medicare. All of their income tax withholdings are refunded to them when they file, if they are too ignorant to claim the correct amount on their W-4.

Are you saying they should not pay into SS and Medicare, yet still expect to recieve these benefits (as if SS will exist anyway)? SS is already an upside-down pyramid.

I'm talking on the front end. Its taken only to give back to them later when they've needed it all along. The push for a minimum wage increase is evidence of this. What the working poor needs is more money in their pocket now, not once a year. No I'm not talking about medicare or social security (although reform is needed here too). Remove income taxes for individuals making money below the poverty line that way there is no increased expense to the businesses but the individual has more spending money which will in turn grow the economy. That won't happen as the government seems to be stuck on crazy, proposing the same action expecting a different result despite the preponderance of evidence that it only increases the burden on businesses and creates a cascading effect in reference to inflation.

Besides, many who file below the poverty line, IIRC, get back more than they put in. This will put an end to that BS which will save us all money in the end.

 

[Oldgamer]

The arguments in favor of this don't make a lot of sense. People are making statements like "There is no way that you could raise a family of four on just $7.25 an hour!" Wait a minute, what? Why would you? If you are making so little money, why would you think that it is a good idea to have children in the first place? Minimum wage jobs are not meant to raise an entire family off of. They are meant for high school kids to work their way up and get some experience before they get real jobs later on. I started out in a very low paying jobs, making less than $9, but now that I graduated college, my salary is much, much higher. That's the way it is supposed to work.

I think this was discussed at length in this thread http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2301703&highlight=

 

[OCGuy]

I'm talking on the front end. Its taken only to give back to them later when they've needed it all along. The push for a minimum wage increase is evidence of this. What the working poor needs is more money in their pocket now, not once a year. No I'm not talking about medicare or social security (although reform is needed here too). Remove income taxes for individuals making money below the poverty line that way there is no increased expense to the businesses but the individual has more spending money which will in turn grow the economy. That won't happen as the government seems to be stuck on crazy, proposing the same action expecting a different result despite the preponderance of evidence that it only increases the burden on businesses and creates a cascading effect in reference to inflation.

Besides, many who file below the poverty line, IIRC, get back more than they put in. This will put an end to that BS which will save us all money in the end.

Again, what are you talking about? If they claim the proper exemptions, they won't have much at all of federal/state income tax taken out. That is their ignorance for giving the government an interest free loan.

I really hope you understand that a very large percentage of Americans effectively pay zero federal income tax, or actually worse..they get rebates back that they didn't even pay in the first place.

 

[Smoblikat]

Don't presume that business will hire folks for the sake of hiring them. They will employ to meet the demand for their product or service.

Minimum wage seeks to enable a social construct. It also has an increase demand function in the short term. The psychological aspects of working for 9$ versus 7$ does provide the motivation for the youth to work instead of standing on the corner... Not much of one but a bit anyhow.

Family aged folks who've developed their skill or finished their education goals, the aged and disabled are not directly affected in the short term but will be over time as prices rise to provide profit incentive to business investment.

The simple fact is that prices have risen without a corresponding rise in the income of most all segments of the earning population on average.

The largest expense for a full time minimum wage worker is their Rent... Followed by their Food...
What happens when a person can't afford Rent or Food? Who cares about them?

We seem to have moved into a mind set that indicates the young and the old are expendable in a society who gripe about 1% additional income tax to deal with a social imperative.

I sure dont. Either you do what you need to do to live, or die. Thats how it should be, those who cant get up off their ass long enough to sustain their needs hold no place in society. Old people are an exception, if they spent their lives contributing and paying taxes than they deserve to live out the rest of their lives easier than someone who is stupid and has 3 kids but cannot support them.

 

[nehalem256]

I sure dont. Either you do what you need to do to live, or die. Thats how it should be, those who cant get up off their ass long enough to sustain their needs hold no place in society. Old people are an exception, if they spent their lives contributing and paying taxes than they deserve to live out the rest of their lives easier than someone who is stupid and has 3 kids but cannot support them.

See is the inherent injustice of the liberal world view. They believe that obligation goes only one way. Society has an obligation to the poor, but poor people have zero obligation to live there life in a moral fashion.

 

[LunarRay]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this is where the rest of the educated world is calling you a dumbass.

You know those guys that work in the office of the apartments they pay rent at? Yeah, those people are now going to have their wages raised all around the apartment companies locations nationally.

How about the guys that they hire to clean the swimming pool? Raises up
How about the guys that walk around putting flyers on your door showing the rent is increasing? Their pay is up.

We seem to have moved into this mindset that everything will stand still. That no one else will be affected, and companies will merrily raise Bubbah by $2/hr for no given reason They will naturally just take it as a loss. And the investors won't mind, noooooo they don't own part of the company in order to improve profit margins, nope, nope, nope.

Maybe if you read what I wrote you'd see that I agree with most of your comments....

The issue, however, is one where the cost of what the lower wage earner requires to maintain some semblance of normality has increased without a corresponding increase in their wages. Even the SS folks and Disabled went for two or more years without an increase even though their Rent and Food increased.
Increasing the Minimum wage will affect the cost structure relative to the sectors that typically employ minimum wages folks... But, notwithstanding that an increase is appropriate although it is only a temporary fix to an ever present issue.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Again, what are you talking about? If they claim the proper exemptions, they won't have much at all of federal/state income tax taken out. That is their ignorance for giving the government an interest free loan.

I really hope you understand that a very large percentage of Americans effectively pay zero federal income tax, or actually worse..they get rebates back that they didn't even pay in the first place.

I don't know how I am not clear on this. Again I am speaking on the front end. Income taxes are taken from their check only to give back to them later. Remove this step. Have I cleared up my position?

To say they pay no income taxes because they get it back at the end of the year is not addressing the issue. Those at or below the poverty level need that money now, not at the end of the year.

 

[LunarRay]

I sure dont. Either you do what you need to do to live, or die. Thats how it should be, those who cant get up off their ass long enough to sustain their needs hold no place in society. Old people are an exception, if they spent their lives contributing and paying taxes than they deserve to live out the rest of their lives easier than someone who is stupid and has 3 kids but cannot support them.

That notion you embrace about doing what one needs doing to live is a philosophy held by all sorts of mal intent folks as well as those working their way through college and folks who simply want a life and are willing to work to achieve it....
Last I looked the cost of an education has gone up considerably but not the wages one earns for their efforts to pay for that...

I'd support a link to the CPI for minimum wages...

Why work when you can get Welfare for doing nothing.... How about abolishing Welfare in favor of decent wages? Except for the truly needy...
Decrease government spending by increasing public spending... It will never reach equilibrium but in terms of real dollars back to some relevant point... 9$ is about 2$ and to have parity it should be about 12$... or there abouts.

"Do what you need to do to live or die" is simply an amazing statement! How it should be is not how it is be.... You do have to live in this Country as it is and try to make it fair and reasonable for all the people.

 

[nehalem256]

You do have to live in this Country as it is and try to make it fair and reasonable for all the people.

which is about as far from liberalism as you can get. If you believe that obligations only go one way then you don't believe in fairness.