Raise minimum wage?

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nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Try questioning your ideology and honestly evaluating the economic conditions it has created. Suddenly a $20 minimum wage might make a hell of a lot of sense to you.

You must be a bot. Show me one economist that thinks a $20/hr minimum wage is a good idea. Hell, I bet even big government, big spender Krugman thinks that one is retarded.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
You must be a bot. Show me one economist that thinks a $20/hr minimum wage is a good idea. Hell, I bet even big government, big spender Krugman thinks that one is retarded.

If they did they'd be laughed out of their field.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
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After tips :rolleyes:

Right... and the cheeseburger doesn't cost $25 even including the tip... It takes about 5 minutes of labor to make a cheeseburger and 2 minutes to serve it. Like I was saying, apply some damn common sense.
 
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Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
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You must be a bot. Show me one economist that thinks a $20/hr minimum wage is a good idea. Hell, I bet even big government, big spender Krugman thinks that one is retarded.

You mean the economists that lead us down the trickle down path to ruin and who lead the USSR down the communist part to ruin?

I don't give a fuck what they think. Economics is a made up field, not science.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
You mean the economists that lead us down the trickle down path to ruin and who lead the USSR down the communist part to ruin?

I don't give a fuck what they think. Economics is a made up field, not science.

Really? Because people I know who work at restaurants make about $20 after tips and I've never seen a $25 cheeseburger even including the tips...

Try questioning your ideology and honestly evaluating the economic conditions it has created. Suddenly a $20 minimum wage might make a hell of a lot of sense to you.


chocked full of sig quotes.

dude seriously, why do you time after time post shit that you have no clue about? do you enjoy looking like a dummy?
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
We should have two minimum wages one for those under 18 and one for those over 18. For people under 18 the minimum wage should be at least $8 an hour, for those over 18 it should be at least $15 an hour. With strict limits on how many people under 18 a company can hire.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
There also needs to be a maximum income, such as 10 Million, where you cannot make more than 10 Million a year. Lets face it no one needs that much money.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
There also needs to be a maximum income, such as 10 Million, where you cannot make more than 10 Million a year. Lets face it no one needs that much money.

Who the fuck are you to dictate what people "need"? Guess what little boy, in the real world we get to have things we don't "need", and there's nothing you can do about it other than cry.

You should start though by giving away every single thing you don't "need", but you need to let a random stranger tell you what those things are.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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You mean the economists that lead us down the trickle down path to ruin and who lead the USSR down the communist part to ruin?

I don't give a fuck what they think. Economics is a made up field, not science.

Pretty sure he said "one" economist, as in you get to choose, so please find one that thinks your arbitrary $20 minimum wage is a good idea, or that it would help, or even have a positive effect beyond the first few weeks until price caught up with it. Raising minimum wage to $20 is not going to effect just minimum wage workers, it's going to effect pretty much ALL wage workers, and salary workers too. I doubt it would take a week.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
Who the fuck are you to dictate what people "need"? Guess what little boy, in the real world we get to have things we don't "need", and there's nothing you can do about it other than cry.

You should start though by giving away every single thing you don't "need", but you need to let a random stranger tell you what those things are.

We have people including CHILDREN who are dying of exposure and starvation in this country while countless greedy people live a life of extreme excess. This is a crime against all of humanity. How can you justify a person who owns a 20,000 square foot mansion, while a few miles a way a child is dying from exposure and starvation. Sickening.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
We have people including CHILDREN who are dying of exposure and starvation in this country while countless greedy people live a life of extreme excess. This is a crime against all of humanity. How can you justify a person who owns a 20,000 square foot mansion, while a few miles a way a child is dying from exposure and starvation. Sickening.

It's sad, but that's not how it works bucko. We don't limit people because of other people's bad luck. It isn't a "crime against humanity", it's called life. When you grow up you'll realize that no matter what you do some people are going to suffer.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
It's sad, but that's not how it works bucko. We don't limit people because of other people's bad luck. It isn't a "crime against humanity", it's called life. When you grow up you'll realize that no matter what you do some people are going to suffer.

So you have no problems with children dying on the streets in this country, because they don't have access to shelter, food, or water. You must have no compassion.
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,027
0
76
It's sad, but that's not how it works bucko. We don't limit people because of other people's bad luck. It isn't a "crime against humanity", it's called life. When you grow up you'll realize that no matter what you do some people are going to suffer.
I think everyone knows that life is like this. However, the fact that you don't see that things could potentially be better does not show that you are a realist. It just shows that you don't care.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
I would hope that most people support themselves on more than minimum wage, but would it still not make sense to raise minimum wage in keeping with inflation? Because if you don't, then isn't that effectively just devaluing the employees' jobs?
Increase in wages(whether "minimum" or not) contributes to inflation.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Right... and the cheeseburger doesn't cost $25 even including the tip... It takes about 5 minutes of labor to make a cheeseburger and 2 minutes to serve it. Like I was saying, apply some damn common sense.

Seeing as you are mathematically challenged, you should stay away from numbers.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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Increase in wages(whether "minimum" or not) contributes to inflation.

When I said cue the right-wing myths over 160 posts ago, I didn't mean a flood.

Increases to the minimum wage have an absolutely trivial impact on inflation.

And that's before the benefits of the stimulative effect on the economy and that's before the other effects like reducing the need for a safety net and crime.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
chocked full of sig quotes.

dude seriously, why do you time after time post shit that you have no clue about? do you enjoy looking like a dummy?

Interesting. I see a bunch of empty posts calling me stupid, but with no explanation of why. And it's because you rightwingers can't do anything but parrot economic ideology that you probably heard on CNBC/FOX.

You can spew theories all day long from the people who brought us globalism and trickle-on and even the things you rightwingers hate like the paper money and Federal Reserve. But in the real world there are people working their asses off for full time or even double full time so they can achieve a third world standard of living. The current system that allows non-living wages is a failure. In the real world, not just in some economics textbook next to a "Laffer Curve".
 
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matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
We have people including CHILDREN who are dying of exposure and starvation in this country while countless greedy people live a life of extreme excess. This is a crime against all of humanity. How can you justify a person who owns a 20,000 square foot mansion, while a few miles a way a child is dying from exposure and starvation. Sickening.

I justify the the person who owns a 20,000 square foot mansion because he built it with his own money and its his right to own his own life and labor.
Thats how I justify it, its pretty simple.

As for the kid who's dieing in the street, why don't you help him?
Surely you can go without something?

Don't act as if theres nothing to help the child you speak of, where are his parents, his extended family, his friends?
Lots of cities have homeless shelters, charities, etc
Theres a lot of help out there for people if they need it.
We live in a generous country.
 
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Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Increase in wages(whether "minimum" or not) contributes to inflation.

So does that include CEO salaries and other examples of wealth concentration like the massive divergence of income between the top few % and the rest of us?

Or does the richest 1% getting insanely richer and owning 40% of America's wealth not affect the price of a cheeseburger? Is that because they don't eat cheeseburgers?


No really. Somebody explain to me how taking this graph and moving a little of the top line's slope to the lower lines is going to increase the price of a cheeseburger. Remember... same amount of dollars. Just a little teeny weeny bit less for the top and a teeny weeny bit more for the bottom.
nytimes_income_graph.png


income.quintiles.gif
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
20 buck min wage would = a $25 cheeseburger.


dont you understand that?

What percent of the cost of making the burger do you think is the minimum wager workers' salary?

Include food cost, rent, taxes, manager salary, owner profit, advertising, store materials, cleaning, energy, water, licenses, and whatever I forgot.

No, if you take a very low-end restaurant I found some numbers for, they average about $400K in sales. This is going to be well under a decent, average-sized restaurant.

At minimum wage, say $7.25 hour, a full-time employee would be $15K per year in salary plus some taxes.

A $20/hour minimum wage would take that to $40K/year plus taxes.

Now, if a burger costs, say, $5 (or $7), how are you going to take that to $25 (300% or 400% increase) by increasing the restaurant costs' minimum wage labor by $25K for the minimum wage full-time employee, from $400K in this example to, say, $475K for three full-time employees? That would more make the $5 burger cost $6.

While those are very rough numbers, I think they say a lot about the accuracy of the $25 burger.

And that's before any benefits of worker loyalty, possible reduced turnover, and lot more people able to buy your burgers.

Face it for what it is, a small re-distribution of a tiny bit of wealth from the top - out of a sliver of a percent of some investment ownership - to the poor workers.

It would have some small impact on inflation affecting everyone - very small because the low wages are a pittance in the economy - but would have a lot of benefits.

That has a lot more benefit than harm.

While I'm not picking $20, just discussing the $25 burger, there is no magic formula to set it and the radical righties will be unhappy with any minimum wage.

But I suspect what we have is a lot of uninformed resistance to change that just has an emotional reaction against such a change. "Oh no, my heavens!"

I don't see many people who are able to actually understand the benefits, the changes of how society would adapt, so they just post their fantasies of doom.

$25 burgers! $10 cokes! The sky would fall!

No, some big corporations would have to spend a trivial amount more - so they strongly oppose it and sell this propaganda to oppose it.

I remember the story of Taco Bell faced with a strike and boycott over its low pay to farm workers - their demands were finally fully met when the boycott and PR hurt.

The entire amount they had fought hard not to pay: 1 more cent per pound of tomatoes.

Some background on that example, how paying a little more to the poor is fine, not $25 Chalupas:

Farmworkers who pick for Florida growers who sell tomatoes to Taco Bell earn between 40-50 cents for every 32-lb bucket of tomatoes they pick. For example, the Immokalee-based "Six L's Packing Co., Inc.," one of the nation's largest tomato producers and a contractor to Taco Bell (according to the industry journal "The Packer"), still pays 40 cents per bucket. That is the same piece rate paid since 1978.

At that rate, workers must pick and haul 2 TONS of tomatoes to make $50 in a day. [According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the median annual income of farmworkers today is $7,500.] Workers are denied the right to organize and the right to overtime pay for overtime work. They receive no health insurance, no sick leave, no paid holidays, no vacation, and no pension.

To date, Taco Bell has refused to take any responsibility for these sweatshop conditions in the fields where their tomatoes are picked.

Given the sheer volume of Immokalee tomatoes it buys to supply its worldwide operations, and given its size and economic strength, Taco Bell has the power to help bring about more modern, more equitable labor relations in Immokalee's tomato fields, and... with power comes responsibility.

What can Taco Bell do?
Taco Bell could nearly double the picking piece rate paid to farmworkers by agreeing to pay just one penny more per pound for the tomatoes it buys from Florida growers. We believe that Taco Bell, as part of the "world's largest restaurant system" can easily afford to pay one penny more. But even if they passed the cost on to YOU, the consumer, it would still be less than 1/4 of 1 cent more for your chalupa.

Would you be willing to pay 1/4 of 1 penny more for your Chalupa if it meant that farmworkers could earn a living wage?

We thought you would.