Rage...

[wuliheron]

John is sure to design a good engine, but that isn't really what I was talking about. I wasn't necessarily agreeing with the detractors though, just pointing out that the Id reputation may not be the same going into a project like this. Id's success has been made essentially remaking the same game over and over again, and they aren't doing that this time, it's a significantly different beast than Doom and Quake.

Almost nobody's reputation is enough to predict the outcome when they decide to do something different, but Carmack is the first to admit a game is either fun to play or its worthless. Fancy graphics and slick tricks won't save a bad game and Id certainly doesn't specialize in either one of those.

 

[quadomatic]

chill: http://www.giantbomb.com/news/rage-the-first-three-hours/3544/

It looks like it's going to be a decent game. But, everyone's endless speculation (flaming may be more accurate...) about the quality of the game isn't going to change a thing.

 

[wuliheron]

No doubt some of it is just flaming, but some is also justifiable skepticism. I have to sympathize with those who complain Id hasn't really produced a single player winner since the original Doom, Quake, and Quake 2 back in 1997. Hardcore multiplayer fans might enjoy some of their later work, but for single player fans the remake of Wolfenstein and Doom 3 were somewhat disappointing. Wolfenstein was never as popular as Quake and Doom to begin with, and Doom 3 sacrificed a lot of the artwork, graphics, and dynamics so it could run well on less powerful machines.

Fourteen years between really great single player games is a long time and with Rage being so different from their usual work it only increases the skepticism.

 

[Sureshot324]

Is this a joke? doom and quake pretty simple, what? They were the FIRST to make a first person shooter and they influenced everyone that followed. Multiplayer an afterthought? I'm pretty sure quake was designed mostly for multiplayer and created a huge tournament/clan scene at the time.

Maybe you just didn't play PC games back then or something, another johnny come lately. Maybe thats why you dont understand how revolutionary doom/quake were.

As far as not designing good games, thats your opinion. Plenty of people enjoyed single player doom/d2/quake, I thought quake single player was a lot of fun - NIN also did the soundtrack which I found to be very good. PC technology didn't allow so much for grand storytelling back then especially for a first person shooter, and their audience were games that craved action. So whats they did, and did well.

You misunderstand what I meant. Doom 1+2 and Quake 1-3 were awesome games. My point is that in terms of game design (not technology) it didn't take a lot of talent to make them. It's like a simple punk rock song. It might sound awesome, but that doesn't mean the band is very talented. John Carmack made some amazing game engines, but all the designers did with them is throw in a ton of enemies and some dull brown levels. It just happened to be a lot of fun. Wolfenstein 3D was a revolutionary game, but only because it was the first FPS. It's not like ID was the first to ever think of making an FPS either, they were just the first to make the technology work.

Quake 1 was most definitely not designed primarily for multiplayer. Back in the Doom 1-2 days the percentage of players that actually played online multiplayer was tiny so it wouldn't have made sense to make Quake 1 primarily multiplayer. When Quake 1 was released, it actually had really crappy netcode that would only really work well if you had a high speed connection, which few people did at the time. It wasn't until they release Quakeworld (better netcode) that Quake 1 multiplayer really took off. The multiplayer was a ton of fun, but not because if Id's 1337 game design skills. The multiplayer was pretty much a carbon copy of the single player game. Even most of the maps were lifted from the single player campaign. The guns were horribly unbalanced because in single player they are supposed to get progressively more powerful as you go through the game, so rocket launcher is the best.

 

[motsm]

You misunderstand what I meant. Doom 1+2 and Quake 1-3 were awesome games. My point is that in terms of game design (not technology) it didn't take a lot of talent to make them. It's like a simple punk rock song. It might sound awesome, but that doesn't mean the band is very talented. John Carmack made some amazing game engines, but all the designers did with them is throw in a ton of enemies and some dull brown levels.

I wouldn't make it sound so simple, when you have endless attempted Doom and Quake clones that failed miserably.

 

[skace]

Quake 1 was designed for multiplayer. In fact, the original demo of Quake was called QTest and was a multiplayer only demo. Before the game even reached market, it had shareware online servers and you could meet a number of Id Software members on any given day on these servers.

I remember our clan mates playing John Cash when he threw up a private Id server running "DaSkull" at our request.

They were very big on the multiplayer, which I believe is what spawned such a healthy community around the game. Valve has really taken that throne from Id, as Valve is now the ones that always seem willing to work with community and bring in new mod dev houses to grow their game in interesting ways.

However, Quake 1 was not just a simple game, the level design was amazing in that game. The levels were all beautiful, different and hard to master. Everything from moving floors to invisible walls to secret teleporters and hidden levels. The game was really a joy to play whether single player, coop or deathmatch.

I loved what the Expert CTF guys did converting the Elder God Shrine into a CTF map.

 

[wuliheron]

However, Quake 1 was not just a simple game, the level design was amazing in that game. The levels were all beautiful, different and hard to master. Everything from moving floors to invisible walls to secret teleporters and hidden levels. The game was really a joy to play whether single player, coop or deathmatch.

I couldn't agree more. Id deliberately made it easy to make mods for Doom and then took the best of the mods people made and created Ultimate Doom. Quake took what they had learned and put it to good use. In both cases they started out with a lot of designs for traps and whatnot borrowed straight from medieval castle architecture. They wrote the book on corridor shooter level design, coop gaming, and modding.

Now the rumor is they're planning a return to the original Quake artwork and style and I can't wait to see the results.

 

[blackened23]

I couldn't agree more. Id deliberately made it easy to make mods for Doom and then took the best of the mods people made and created Ultimate Doom. Quake took what they had learned and put it to good use. In both cases they started out with a lot of designs for traps and whatnot borrowed straight from medieval castle architecture. They wrote the book on corridor shooter level design, coop gaming, and modding.

Now the rumor is they're planning a return to the original Quake artwork and style and I can't wait to see the results.

I really question whether the people talking about quake 1 having bad gameplay actually played it when it was out, the atmosphere and level design were great. The music was eerie and it had spooky moments before it became cool (ie bioshock and dead space). There were definitely moments where it would startle you when a mob would spawn right in front of you or surprise you, it had a lot of moments like that. As has been said before pc technology back then didn't allow for grand storytelling that you can do now, but quake was an excellent horror action fps for single player, and was nothing short of groundbreaking for internet multiplayer. Quake was the first game that allowed multiplayer over the internet and influenced just about every multiplayer game that followed.

 

[wuliheron]

I really question whether the people talking about quake 1 having bad gameplay actually played it when it was out, the atmosphere and level design were great. The music was eerie and it had spooky moments before it became cool (ie bioshock and dead space). There were definitely moments where it would startle you when a mob would spawn right in front of you or surprise you, it had a lot of moments like that. As has been said before pc technology back then didn't allow for grand storytelling that you can do now, but quake was an excellent horror action fps for single player, and was nothing short of groundbreaking for internet multiplayer. Quake was the first game that allowed multiplayer over the internet and influenced just about every multiplayer game that followed.

Yeah, I think its easy for modern gamers to miss such things. Games like Doom and Quake were so limited by the technology that it required real effort for the player to suspend their disbelief and the developers had to work hard to exploit every little detail they could to improve immersion. You could compare it to the old vaudeville shows or the golden age of radio where the audience had to use their imagination more and the entertainers had to exploit the limitations of the venue to the best of their ability. If you've never really had much experience with such things it can be hard to see what they did really well and just how much of it still applies today.

 

[Renob]

If I buy Rage, and have to backtrack a single time, the game is going to be removed from my system and put on the shelf.

that sounds smart lol

 

[Dankk]

Quake 4 gameplay was outdated when the game was released.

Quake 4 wasn't made by id.

If I buy Rage, and have to backtrack a single time, the game is going to be removed from my system and put on the shelf.

Seeing as it's an open-world game, you can be confident there will be a lot of backtracking. There. Now you don't have to play it.

 

[abaez]

I really question whether the people talking about quake 1 having bad gameplay actually played it when it was out, the atmosphere and level design were great. The music was eerie and it had spooky moments before it became cool (ie bioshock and dead space). There were definitely moments where it would startle you when a mob would spawn right in front of you or surprise you, it had a lot of moments like that. As has been said before pc technology back then didn't allow for grand storytelling that you can do now, but quake was an excellent horror action fps for single player, and was nothing short of groundbreaking for internet multiplayer. Quake was the first game that allowed multiplayer over the internet and influenced just about every multiplayer game that followed.

I remember the first time my friend and I tried quake out after getting a shareware demo disc from a computer show.

The first time we came out of the water and our character gasped for air we were like.. holy shit! that is so awesome. Nothing like that had ever been in a game we had played before.

 

[skace]

Quake 4 not being made by Id Software isn't really an excuse for the gameplay. Personally, I don't believe Quake 4 needs any excuses for its gameplay, it was very solid, only suffering in areas where the engine failed to do outdoor very well.

Raven, who made Q4 is or was an amazing Dev studio. We are talking Heretic, Hexen, Q4, Soldier of Fortune, Star Trek Elite Force, The Jedi Knight games and recently they did Singularity which had an absolutely awesome Single Player campaign.

I guess what I'm getting at is that if you didn't enjoy Q4 SP the answer isn't "It's Raven's fault" the answer is "Maybe the game wasn't for you, go play the new Call of Duty if you want a theatrical movie trailer with some basic controls".

I'd certainly critique Q4 and want to make it better, but I would never apologize for older, more actiony and interesting game play elements that it exhibited.

 

[Texashiker]

Steam has posted a release of October 4th. I thought rage was going to be released in November, not October.

People who prepurchased should be able to start downloading over the weekend.

I think I am going to hold off and wait for the reviews.

Quake 1 was most definitely not designed primarily for multiplayer. <snip> When Quake 1 was released, it actually had really crappy netcode that would only really work well if you had a high speed connection

Quake was designed for multiplayer, but it was tested over a LAN and not dialup.

John Romero focused a lot of his design on deathmatch gameplay, and he designed a lot of the levels in Quake. I do not think Quake was designed "primarily" for multiplayer, but a lot of thought about multiplayer was put into the game.

If anything, I would say quake was 50/50, singleplayer/multiplayer.

 

[tokie]

Looking forward to this. Less than a week now until release.

 

[Aikouka]

I assume that we're not getting a demo?

 

[KaOTiK]

I assume that we're not getting a demo?

iirc, they said no

 

[skace]

Wow so rage is this close? CRAZY

 

[Childs]

that may be true but all i have to say is Daikatana

Im looking foreward to Rage

They needed each other. Without Romero id's games weren't really fun, just technical. Without id and Carmack Romero had no discipline and then you get Diakatana - a game that was all over the place and didn't really even work at launch. Its too bad they couldn't have worked it out.

I'll bite on Rage, as I kinda like Fallout and Borderlands but hate grinding and rpg stuff like leveling up my aim. A road warrior style FPS thats more shooting and less rpg sounds like a winner.

 

[skace]

I agree with that a lot Childs. Romero on his own is useless, but his personality thrown into Id Software games was a real perfect combination. I wish I knew who was responsible for the gothic/cthulu based feel of Quake 1. And why that same feel has never resurfaced.

 

[Texashiker]

I wish I knew who was responsible for the gothic/cthulu based feel of Quake 1. And why that same feel has never resurfaced.

I met John Romero at Quakecon in 1998, we had a good talk about Doom, Quake and Quake II. This was a on-on-one conversation that probably lasted 15,,, maybe 20 minutes.

One thing I can tell you, John pays attention to a lot of details.

We were talking about Doom - the first level of Doom, walk forward, turn to the right, look out the window, and you will see a courtyard with mountains in the distance. John told me that scene was setup to make the player say "wow".

Quake E2M5: The Wizard's Manse, John designed that level. There is an area with stained glass windows, those windows were Johns idea.

Listening to John as he was talking about Doom and Quake, it was like the ideas were flowing out of his head like a river. It was amazing to listen to him talk about how parts of the game fit together.

After we talked, John gave me an autographed picture of Quake II. Which was ironic because John did not work on Q2, but that was all he had to sign at the time.

 

[thegimp03]

I really enjoyed Doom 3 and Resurrection of Evil. I think I played through the games on every level of difficulty. The first video card I used to play that game, in one of the early beta versions was a GeForce 2 GTS and a Demon, the Pinky, burst through one of the walls of the corridor I was walking through in one of the early levels and my first blast with a shotgun crashed my computer. The last card I used to play with was a 7900GTO. I have yet to try it out on my 5870, but the 7900GTO did fine with maxing all the graphics.

Quake 4 sucked. I played it for about 5 minutes and never played again.

Quake 3 is my most-played game ever and I doubt anything will ever come close to it because I don't have all the spare time anymore. I still fire it up every now and then to play some CTF.

I will most likely pick up Rage, but it might be a few months down the line. Maybe Steam will have a deal on it during the holidays and I'll pick it up then.

 

[zinfamous]

really looking forward to this b/c I love Borderlands and Fallout so much. hope it's pleasantly similar to both.

of course, I will hold off until well after reviews and a potential sale.

 

[deustroop]

Servers be "too busy" to download (pre release) game--wait a few hours, it says, and try again.
The level of pre game d/l says to me peoples be excited.

The game will give the poor folk complaining about the BF3 suckage something fun to do.

 

[wuliheron]

Servers be "too busy" to download (pre release) game--wait a few hours, it says, and try again.
The level of pre game d/l says to me peoples be excited.

The game will give the poor folk complaining about the BF3 suckage something fun to do.

I'm up to 25&#37; and EA can kiss my hairy butt. As usual it looks like BF3 is as much EA hype as anything else. On the other hand, some of us have been waiting ten years for Id to take it to the next level and the Id tech 5 engine is definitely it.