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Radeon R9 290X Priced at $730 at Newegg

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Cloudfire777 said:
Why don`t you read his post?
He says that marketing would boast Mantle to be "insanely" fast.
Fudzilla post is still marketing and nothing to back it up like all the rumors of Mantle or those in various forums that think they know how API coding works and how it will translate in performance (nobody here does)
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How about lets wait and see.


Your posts are just here for flame bait and it amazes me that it still continues.
 
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YBS1 said:
Wow...Jump the gun much? We don't know that's it's faster than either the 780 or Titan (it will be a disappointment if it's not though considering time to market). We can't make any assumptions at all about BF4 performance based on a beta version using drivers from both sides that aren't likely anywhere near the state they will be in weeks after the games actual release. Mantle means squat until December or later, and may not bring much to the table, or it may take off....who knows?
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Just add 30% to the 7970 GHz's scores in BF4 and it'll be faster than Titan, and some 20%+ faster than the 780 at 1600p.

This isn't even the full version with all graphics options. I'll give a hint to what is probably missing - check slide #9 here - http://www.frostbite.com/connect/#battlefield-4-frostbite-mantle

There is a pretty high chance that the Nvidia cards are going to tank badly with compute shader lightning, just like they do in Dirt Showdown, Sniper etc.

AMD is going to annihilate Nvidia in BF4 at max settings. This is a foregone conclusion.

As for why would anyone buy a 780 now (lets assume the 290X turns out well)? Well the type of people who buy $600+ graphics cards, oddly enough, are the exact same type of people who buy multiple $600+ graphics cards. Yeah, now you know where I'm going with this. Just how long has it been AMD has been promising "soon" on Crossfire being up to snuff with SLI?
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The new cards have hardware frame metering...
 
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SiliconWars said:
We had the ridicule statement - http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/radeon-r9-290x-mantle-api-ridicule-titan-gpu-bf4/

Repi's _very_ high performance statement - https://twitter.com/repi/status/382995329013919744

Another Repi statement - https://twitter.com/repi/status/383012110592376832

Fudo's says it'll be "much faster" and a "significant boost over DirectX" - http://fudzilla.com/home/item/32730-battlefield-4-on-mantle-should-end-up-much-faster
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I can't read any of the links at work besides the Fudzilla one, but that offers zero proof of any performance gains. It speculates how Mantle will work and even says "along side OpenGL and DirectX" which means it will have very little, if any, performance gains. The majority of DX slowdowns is from the DX stack, which can't be bypassed (except for tessellation). Mantle, if it uses DX in any way, will get very limited gains. If it doesn't use DX, it will either have to provide the higher level API functions to emulate everything DX is doing OR rely on the developer to write their own. That means it has the potential for some (read as Carmack and Lottes) to get better performance and everyone else to stick with what they know because entry level programmers can use DX.

So, unless you have a real link to how Mantle actually works and not some "omg it will be so fast because it is more metal than Metallica", everything is speculation.
 
Cloudfire777 said:
Why don`t you read his post?
He says that marketing would boast Mantle to be "insanely" fast.
Fudzilla post is still marketing and nothing to back it up like all the rumors of Mantle or those in various forums that think they know how API coding works and how it will translate in performance (nobody here does)
Click to expand...

Why would Repi say it was very fast if it wasn't? Or why say _very_ when a simple "fast" would do? He has nothing to gain if people play on AMD or Nvidia cards, the only thing that matters is people play it.
 
smackababy said:
I can't read any of the links at work besides the Fudzilla one, but that offers zero proof of any performance gains. It speculates how Mantle will work and even says "along side OpenGL and DirectX" which means it will have very little, if any, performance gains. The majority of DX slowdowns is from the DX stack, which can't be bypassed (except for tessellation). Mantle, if it uses DX in any way, will get very limited gains. If it doesn't use DX, it will either have to provide the higher level API functions to emulate everything DX is doing OR rely on the developer to write their own. That means it has the potential for some (read as Carmack and Lottes) to get better performance and everyone else to stick with what they know because entry level programmers can use DX.

So, unless you have a real link to how Mantle actually works and not some "omg it will be so fast because it is more metal than Metallica", everything is speculation.
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Mantle does not work "along side DX", it was known two weeks ago that it replaces DX.

Do you really think they are just guessing at performance and don't already have working code?
 
SiliconWars said:
Mantle does not work "along side DX", it was known two weeks ago that it replaces DX.

Do you really think they are just guessing at performance and don't already have working code?
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Yes, I do think that. Not a single number has been given. And the Fudzilla article YOU linked claimed it was working along side DX.

If they had working code, it would show the Mantle API was, at the very least, in a beta form that developers could use. They would have some real numbers of than "omg 9x draw calls!", which means very little.

And, like I said, if it isn't a full API, not only will it not be developer friendly, the performance increase will be extremely based on the developers themselves.
 
smackababy said:
Yes, I do think that. Not a single number has been given. And the Fudzilla article YOU linked claimed it was working along side DX.
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No the problem was YOU misinterpreted it.

Mantle is the new AMD API that sits side by side with OpenGL and DirectX and offers an alternative.
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"Sits side by side" means it's an API, "offers an alternative" means exactly that, in the same way OpenGL is an alternative to DirectX.

It has been known since the reveal that this was the case - Slide 18 http://www.frostbite.com/connect/#battlefield-4-frostbite-mantle

Used instead of DirectX 11 on compatible Radeon GPU's
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SiliconWars said:
No the problem was YOU misinterpreted it.

"Sits side by side" means it's an API, "offers an alternative" means exactly that, in the same way OpenGL is an alternative to DirectX.

It has been known since the reveal that this was the case - Slide 18 http://www.frostbite.com/connect/#battlefield-4-frostbite-mantle
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So, again, unless it is offers a high level API that performs BETTER than DX, the real significance of performance improvements is none.

AND then you have developers who have to develop using Mantle API and DX for PC.
 
smackababy said:
So, again, unless it is offers a high level API that performs BETTER than DX, the real significance of performance improvements is none.

AND then you have developers who have to develop using Mantle API and DX for PC.
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Ok so AMD and DICE just went and developed/co-developed a new API that did absolutely nothing at all for performance, revealed it as the big reveal at the end of AMD's GPU14 day anyway, then decided to lie about it having great performance until December when the game is up and we all see it was a total waste of effort?

Right. :awe:
 
Everything I've gotten is saying all cards at stock, the 290X is on parity with a Titan averaging out multiple results and faster than a 780.

Retailers still have not been given pricing on the cards, which isn't surprising as these BF4 special editions are just hype/limited edition cards.

If AMD wants to do this right they should release stock reference R9 290X for $599. That imo is the best way to generate some thunder, matching Titan, faster than GTX 780 and cheaper than both. Basically take a dump on nvidia the way they did to AMD with the 680 launch.

Obviously nvidia will be dropping prices on 780, who knows what will happen with Titan, that card is just obtuse at this point with the current cards available and 290X coming. But they will still generate good momentum and positive reviews. They have Battlefield 4 locked in with their launch and are going to take the performance lead in that game, Mantle is going to compound that and possibly really make nvidia look bad.

They could have a fierce launch for themselves here similar to 5870. Smaller chip, more efficient, winning the most important game benchmark going in BF4, faster and cheaper.

I think they will go for the $599 on the reference card and all this delaying is just to keep nvidia in the dark and unable to taint their launch with some early price drops.
 
Rvenger said:
How about lets wait and see.


Your posts are just here for flame bait and it amazes me that it still continues.
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Try to think before posting stupid posts like that.
SiliconWars said: "This said Mantle was amazing"
I said: Well that is the companies that use Mantle speaking. Its marketing.

I didn`t deny or confirm that it was great. I said it was marketing. It was a normal comment, its not my fault that you couldn`t handle the fact that I said it may not be that great.
The only one creating a big fuzz over this is YOU, and you reveal your feelings for AMD pretty well.
 
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The point I'm making is that we're hearing some very big talk from a variety of sources, including some who have little to gain from AMD selling more cards.

It is far more likely that Mantle offers large benefits than Mantle offering almost zero benefits, which is the belief (hope) that some of you seem to be hanging on to.
 
Elfear said:
Enlighten us.
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Really? We both know there is a history of sometimes lengthy waits for Crossfire profiles to be enabled on even big name titles. More common erratic performance behavior than SLI. In some cases they will even break crossfire in titles which previously worked fine. (<---This one was the hair that broke the camels back for me in fact, they managed to stuff up COD multiplayer....how do you mess up a COD title and not fix it immediately, months this went on).
 
Its as if people never heard of public relations before. You think they are going to say Mantle is going to be terrible?

I think we can all agree that what a company says and what it delivers in computer world are vastly different that what we really see.

*cough* driver improvements for games *cough*
 
Even Tomshardware thinks MRSP will be $699.

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imaheadcase said:
Its as if people never heard of public relations before. You think they are going to say Mantle is going to be terrible?

I think we can all agree that what a company says and what it delivers in computer world are vastly different that what we really see.

*cough* driver improvements for games *cough*
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Amen!
 
SiliconWars said:
The point I'm making is that we're hearing some very big talk from a variety of sources, including some who have little to gain from AMD selling more cards.

It is far more likely that Mantle offers large benefits than Mantle offering almost zero benefits, which is the belief (hope) that some of you seem to be hanging on to.
Click to expand...

It's all irrelevant if developers don't use it. If Mantle is used extensively for console development, and porting to PC is simple, it has a chance. Otherwise, it is totally dead in the water if it has to stand on its own in the PC market. Developers code to the largest customer pool, not the highest performing pool. Given the choice of developing for just DirectX which all PC's can use, or DirectX AND Mantle, which is AMD only right now even if it is significantly faster, which will developers choose?
 
Pariah said:
It's all irrelevant if developers don't use it. If Mantle is used extensively for console development, and porting to PC is simple, it has a chance. Otherwise, it is totally dead in the water if it has to stand on its own in the PC market. Developers code to the largest customer pool, not the highest performing pool. Given the choice of developing for just DirectX which all PC's can use, or DirectX AND Mantle, which is AMD only right now even if it is significantly faster, which will developers choose?
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Even if Mantle is structured exactly the same on a low level basis as consoles, both still use a high level API of their own (Xbox One is a DX derivative and PS4 is custom to emulate DX). Mantle would have to provide a similar toolset to get real use.

If Mantle is just a low level API, only the real genius developers will do anything significant with it. Carmack and Lottes could probably make stunning looking games that run much better than we have now, but the average code money game developer who makes $45k a year couldn't do 10% of that.
 
Developers can be "incentivized" and AMD isn't shy about throwing money around.

There are only a handful of game engines that need to be Mantle optimized and the vast majority of the market will be covered anyway, but this discussion has been covered before in the Mantle thread.
 
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