Radeon 9700 vs GF4 Ti4600 benchmarks at GameSpot

[WyteWatt]

Markfw900 i am going to wait when the real benchmarks come out but this shows us alittle bit of how the fps could be. BTW i am not easily impressed. I expect a lot faster hardware. Maybe the NV30 will impress me more.

 

[Rand]

Sorry Rand, I'll leave your thread alone now.....thanks for the link..

Well, at least you had fun in it

Someone correct me if im wrong.. but isnt ATI a generation behind anyway.. Isnt this chip supposed to compete head to head with the Geforce 4?

Architecturally ATi would be classified as slightly ahead even with the Radeon8500, as it terms of hardware capabilities it is slightly more versatile if less powerful.
The R9700 is undeniably a generation ahead the GF4 in any case.
In terms of hardware capabilities, and performance.

As for what it'll compete with?
It'll compete with whatever is on the market. For a short time that will be the GF4, but it's primary competitor will be nVidia's entrant into the DX9 sweepstakes.... the NV30.

One wonders how much the R300 is penialized for only having one texture/per pixel pipeline. Granted the 8 texturing pipes are quite versatile, and not limited to 8 textures/clock but I'm still betting the performance gained would be quite decent in many games if it had 2textures/pixel.
Or preferably 3textures/pixel which is finally hinting at becoming a reality in a handful of games.

 

[Rand]

the thing i don't understand is that, when Anand benched it, with beta drivers... It CRUSHED it, now how is this coming about?

% improvements can be awfully misleading. 30FPS is 150% of 20FPS, but is only a 10FPS improvement... not incredible. 30FPS is a full 200% of 15FPS, but still not incredible.

Push the frame rates down far enough, and even significant % gains can be had without a huge boost in frame rate. Plus most of Anand's tests focus on very high res + FSAA, which would tend to present an absolute best case situation for the R9700 relative to the GF4.

 

[WyteWatt]

Rand exactly thank you for clearing that up for everyone 10 to 15 fps more to me is not worth $399 in unreal 2003 and other games. It just is not. Now maybe 50 to 100 fps. I knew these percents looked more than they seemed.

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: imtim83
Rand exactly thank you for clearing that up for everyone 10 to 15 fps more to me is not worth $399 in unreal 2003 and other games. It just is not. Now maybe 50 to 100 fps. I knew these percents looked more than they seemed.

But this isn't news to anybody. There were a few big threads about it after AT's preview.

 

[AdamDuritz99]

Originally posted by: Rand

the thing i don't understand is that, when Anand benched it, with beta drivers... It CRUSHED it, now how is this coming about?

% improvements can be awfully misleading. 30FPS is 150% of 20FPS, but is only a 10FPS improvement... not incredible. 30FPS is a full 200% of 15FPS, but still not incredible.

Push the frame rates down far enough, and even significant % gains can be had without a huge boost in frame rate. Plus most of Anand's tests focus on very high res + FSAA, which would tend to present an absolute best case situation for the R9700 relative to the GF4.

Yah Rand has the idea, but I wouldn't look at it as "30FPS is 150% of 20FPS" but instead as 30FPS is a 50% improvement over 20FPS.
Either way % can be misleading.

peace
sean

 

[dawks]

Ok, so the R200 (Radeon 8500 right?) was ment to compete with the Geforce 4 (NV25)? I thought it was a competitor to the Geforce 3... hmm. Im out of the loop.

So then Radeon 9700 (R300) is in-line with the NV30?

Im comparing this on release dates... they each usually come out with around the same time.. I thought ATI was a littl behind though.

Wow, nVidia is really falling behind now.. the beginning of the end for nVidia?

 

[WyteWatt]

No the NV30 is coming out this year.

 

[John]

Wow, nVidia is really falling behind now.. the beginning of the end for nVidia?

Someone else finally takes the crown for a brief period of time and you call it the end for a leader in the graphics industry?

 

[McCarthy]

What's it matter? Trident's gonna kick all their butts anyway.

That's a joke.

Er, I think.

--Mc

 

[Alkali]

Heres something where the percentage results were shown alongside fps (shown in text) on the most graphically challenging UT2003 map with a Radeon 9700 PRO. This is here to dispel the rumours that the new Radeon "is rubbish", as I'm suprised to find comments similar to this here before we have official results.

Unreal Tournament 2003 (DM-Antalus)
1024x768x32bit - High Detail - GF4 4600Ti=100%

Radeon 9700 PRO, __138%, __131FPS
GeForce 4 4600Ti, ___100%, ___95FPS
Matrox Parhelia, _____66%, ___63FPS
GeForce 2 Pro, ______26%, ___25FPS

Unreal Tournament 2003 (DM-Antalus)
1280x1024x32bit - High Detail - GF4 4600Ti=100%

Radeon 9700 PRO, __148%, ___87FPS
GeForce 4 4600Ti, ___100%, ___59FPS
Matrox Parhelia, _____59%, ___35FPS
GeForce 2 Pro, ______27%, ___16FPS

Unreal Tournament 2003 (DM-Antalus)
1600x1200x32bit - High Detail - GF4 4600Ti=100%

Radeon 9700 PRO, __154%, ____64FPS
GeForce 4 4600Ti, ___100%, ___41FPS
Matrox Parhelia, _____60%, ____24FPS
GeForce 2 Pro, ______24%, ____10FPS

===

Following on from that, what you must remember is that benchmark shown at the top of this thread says it isnt a PRO version (which is very important), this text above is based on the percentages we were given in relation to similar specced machines running the respective cards, and is the PRO version.

You really can expect to play at 1600x1200x32 at over 60FPS with a Radeon 9700 PRO

Regards

 

[Demonicon]

I'll wait for some real benchmarks to come out thank you very much.

Like the Anandtech review. Hopefully it will be out soon.

 

[Alkali]

Thats no problem mate, I'm just showing these figures to dispel the myth that the radeon is pathetic at low resolutions for one thing, I like you, will wait for official figures from Anand and Tom before buying, but saying that I am very sure my figures are not far from the mark

Edit: Of course, one thing my numbers dont allow for is the final version of the drivers for the PRO card, so maybe we will see even higher fps

 

[hans007]

for all you people believe there will be a pro and non pro card.. you are wrong.


ati officially changed the name from 9700 to 9700 pro. thats it, same chip.


i'm not 100% sure where i read that, but the ATI press releases on yahoo finance, say a 9700 pro runs 325 /620 which is the same specs as what had been reported for the 9700 anyways. if you go to ati's site and look at products, they only list a 9700 pro because thats the only card that is coming out, there is not goign to be a plain 9700 released in september, in the press release for th e9700 pro it only says that in the future other products based on 9700 pro technology may come out, but only the pro will be out in september.


so i'm pretty sure it was just a name change. the results are pretty disappointing, it makes it seem like the 9700 pro is just a ti4600 with ram that is twice as fast.

nv30 should bepretty fast, its got rumored 400 core, 900 ram. so well... that should help;




perseonally i dont even game and i have a geforce 4 mx420. but i am an nvidia investor, so i have to keep up with these things and well also for the sheer hobby.

 

[Acanthus]

just FYI the Radeon 9700 pro is now the #1 fastest video card at Madonion.com, the card was running at stock speed on an overclocked system (3.1ghz P4 Rambus, 145ish fsb), and it slaughtered a system that had full LN2 Cooling and an LN2 Cooled Geforce 4 at 400/800. The radeon 9700 doesnt truly shine until you get into complex scenes, hence why it does EXTREMELY WELL in the Nature test (over 120fps) Drivers will probably marginally improve the performance, and dont forget the IQ differecne between a Geforce 4 and a 9700 is off the scale.

 

[Alkali]

What is with all these people slating ATi given half a chance?

The benchmark that was done right at the top of the page was not exactly reliable (the benchmark itself or the card, or whatever), and by no means take mine as bible, JUST WAIT FOR THE ACTUAL BENCHMARKS that Anand and Tom will get round to soon enough.

 

[FishTankX]

Originally posted by: hans007
for all you people believe there will be a pro and non pro card.. you are wrong.


ati officially changed the name from 9700 to 9700 pro. thats it, same chip.


i'm not 100% sure where i read that, but the ATI press releases on yahoo finance, say a 9700 pro runs 325 /620 which is the same specs as what had been reported for the 9700 anyways. if you go to ati's site and look at products, they only list a 9700 pro because thats the only card that is coming out, there is not goign to be a plain 9700 released in september, in the press release for th e9700 pro it only says that in the future other products based on 9700 pro technology may come out, but only the pro will be out in september.


so i'm pretty sure it was just a name change. the results are pretty disappointing, it makes it seem like the 9700 pro is just a ti4600 with ram that is twice as fast.

nv30 should bepretty fast, its got rumored 400 core, 900 ram. so well... that should help;




perseonally i dont even game and i have a geforce 4 mx420. but i am an nvidia investor, so i have to keep up with these things and well also for the sheer hobby.

Damn Hans, where'd you miss the boat! Right here, on Anandtech. On the "Where's the NV30 article" on the front page!!

Nvidia NV30, where are you?

"NVIDIA wasn't the only one that had to worry about yield; the massive size of ATI's R300 would almost guarantee that yields would be low on the chip. But when push came to shove, ATI was able to introduce their R300 on time and are a matter of days away from commencing with volume shipping of the first Radeon 9700 Pro boards. ATI did find a way to balance the yield issue by allowing their partners to produce a regular version of the Radeon 9700 with a lower core clock instead of the 325MHz clock of the Radeon 9700 Pro. "

Do you just... not read Anandtech or something...?!

 

[bjc112]

I still think the Radeon will pull through...

And, how is 50% of 30, 20?

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: imtim83
Adul yeah but you would expect this so fast ATI 9700 supposely beable to get at least 60 fps mininmal in unreal 2003 at 1024x768 with all high details on with no FSAA and AF. Thats all i am asking. But that does not seem to be the case. Heck this video card will be $350 to $400 when it comes out.

Intim, you are entitled to ALL and ANY opinions that you want, but PLEASE do me a favor... Use some punctuation...

I get confused reading those run ons that never ever stop and they just go and go and go and how you are complaining about the radeon and
no real benchmarks even came out yet.

 

[Rand]

Originally posted by: hans007
for all you people believe there will be a pro and non pro card.. you are wrong.

Anand and a number of other hardware reviewers have already said there will be a Radeon 9500/9700 and 9700Pro, I suppose this could have changed within the last few days but that seems dubious.
I believe it was his NV30 article that specified a core clock of 320MHz, Mem clock of 310MHz for the 9700Pro and slightly lower clockspeeds for the reg. version.

 

[nortexoid]

aside from raw performance figures, this card does bring w/ it some killer features - i.e. various DX9 compatible features

so i mean, performance isn't everything - but alas, not everyone realizes this.

 

[BlvdKing]

I am impressed by the FPS of the 9700 according to Gamespot. Then again I like high resolution gaming and/or FSAA with anisotropic on as well. I think the 9700 shows that it is a good card for today's games and games in the near future, which is evident by Carmack running a demo of Doom III on a beta 9700...

This card is made for image quality and speed - it matches an already fast card (Ti 4600) in speed but supasses it when the image quality enhancement features are turned on.

If you had the money, and wanted a new card asap, which card would you buy - the Ti 4600 or the Radeon 9700? I know which I would buy and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't regret it one bit, even when Doom III comes out.

 

[ceZium]

The 9700 is a good card, I don't think anybody can deny that. Is it fast? sure it is, but so will the NV30. No current card is going to be pushing 150 fps in up and coming games for another few GPU generations. They are definately playable, just not god like frame rates

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: Rand

Originally posted by: hans007
for all you people believe there will be a pro and non pro card.. you are wrong.

Anand and a number of other hardware reviewers have already said there will be a Radeon 9500/9700 and 9700Pro, I suppose this could have changed within the last few days but that seems dubious.
I believe it was his NV30 article that specified a core clock of 320MHz, Mem clock of 310MHz for the 9700Pro and slightly lower clockspeeds for the reg. version.

there isnt going to be a non pro card next month.

the 9500 that had been mentioned is not a down clocked version of this 9700 "pro" , it is a .13 or maybe a cut down version supposedly.


the 9700 pro, according to the press release is 325/310 ddr. they'll probably have an OEM version, but it was said that all of them were going to be over 300mhz , so i dont think "pro " is really justified for a 10-15 mhz clock speed increase.

 

[Rand]

the 9700 pro, according to the press release is 325/310 ddr. they'll probably have an OEM version, but it was said that all of them were going to be over 300mhz , so i dont think "pro " is really justified for a 10-15 mhz clock speed increase.[/quote]

there isnt going to be a non pro card next month.

I don't expect there will be either, but I don't think we can say that definitively. At the very least Hercules is said to be ready for launch alongside ATi's boards, and they'll assuredly have a lower clocked R9700 available.

the 9500 that had been mentioned is not a down clocked version of this 9700 "pro" , it is a .13 or maybe a cut down version supposedly.

The R9500 is supposed to launch a month or so after the R9700, and seems to be based on the same .15u process. Certainly ATi isnt going to transition to .13u within a bare month, and yields are still relatively lowly. I don't think we will see ATi switch to .13u until the process matures some... perhaps Q1 2003.
It seems to be an R9700 with half the pixel pipelines, and a 128bit memory bus.
Certainly a significantly slower board, but still offers the full DX9 feature set and reasonably high end performance.

i dont think "pro " is really justified for a 10-15 mhz clock speed increase.

There will always be those willing to pay the $ to have the fastest card available, even if it isnt much faster. When it comes to the fastest gaming card available logic and price seldom become a very important factor.