Radeon 7870/7850 Reviews Are up!

[Attic]

I think the sweetspot is 300 for the card. I hope AMD does well here@350, I dont think we will see the card at 300 until nVidia shows up.

7870 presents a really nice upgrade from the GTX4601GB. The price is the deal breaker at 350. I'm unsure on power draw numbers. I have the 460 drawing ~160watts from a few sources and the 7870 ~180watts. Anyone seen power requirements for running 7870 xFire?

 

[skipsneeky2]

Is there a reason why all the 6970s on newegg are out of stock?

Was doing a price comparison of the 6970 to the msrp of the 7870 at release and the cheapest 6970 was $349,the same price the 7870 will retail at,and the cheapest 2.5gb gtx570 is $394,but if people like to be clinical the cheapest 1.28gb model is $330.

At $330 even,the 7870 would sell itself i would think being faster then a 6970,def faster then a gtx570,more vram and a low tdp,rumors have it i heard the 6970 and 6950 was being phased out to make room for the 7870 and 7850 sorta like amd did to their phenom 2 line when bulldozer came out,true?

 

[DeeJayeS]

Yes. I'm actually quite impressed with the 7870, it gets dangerously close to 7950 in many instances and it's clearly superior to 6970 and gtx 570. But that price just kills it for me. I supect that they'll be down closer to $150/$250 once NV comes out with Kepler, until then...meh.

Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream...

 

[skipsneeky2]

Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream...

Bring me the cheapest performance of a gtx580 the world has ever seen,bababa.

Now the pc world has to wait for kepler for the price gouging to be over!...

 

[Homeles]

Is there a reason why all the 6970s on newegg are out of stock?

They're not being manufactured anymore. Haven't been for months.

 

[Smartazz]

I'm pretty impressed with the 7870, especially considering that the die is so small. The price is a bit high for my taste, but given some price drops it might be worth replacing my 6870 with it no?

 

[GaiaHunter]

I think the sweetspot is 300 for the card. I hope AMD does well here@350, I dont think we will see the card at 300 until nVidia shows up.

7870 presents a really nice upgrade from the GTX4601GB. The price is the deal breaker at 350. I'm unsure on power draw numbers. I have the 460 drawing ~160watts from a few sources and the 7870 ~180watts. Anyone seen power requirements for running 7870 xFire?

From what I've seen the 7870 should be around or lower than GTX460 1GB, with many sources pointing at even lower than a 6870, which consumes less power than a GTX460.

 

[AtenRa]

Here's where you all make the mistake of assuming next gen should always continue to offer amazing perf/$ comparatively.

The transition to 28nm is much more costly than previous node switch (got this from an TSMC conference, dont have the URL atm). As we get down to smaller nodes, the cost skyrockets. If the yields are great, you can recover more good dies per wafer overall making the cost spike minimal.. but inversely, if yields are low, expect to pay a lot more. Who thinks 28nm yield is as good as 40nm?

Well lets see,

AMD Barts(HD6870) die size is 255mm2
AMD Pitcairn(HD7870) die size is 212mm2

Now, we can have ~221 dies per 300mm wafer for Barts and ~269 dies per 300mm wafer for Pitcairn.

Lets assume Barts have 85% yields and Pitcairn has 60%.

We get , ~187 Barts dies and ~161 Pitcairn dies.

40nm 300mm Wafer cost at TSMC = $5000
Each Barts die will cost ~$27

28nm 300mm Wafer cost at TSMC = $6000, that is 20% higher cost than 40nm
Each Pitcairn die will cost ~$37 = $10 higher than Barts

28nm 300mm Wafer cost at TSMC = $7500, that is 50% higher cost than 40nm
Each Pitcairn die will cost ~$46 = $19 higher than Barts

It seams that even with 50% higher wafer prices and lower yields it doesnt justify the $100 price increase of HD7870 over the HD6870 launched MSRP.

I strongly believe that higher manufacturing cost is not what drives prices higher than before.

 

[railven]

Well lets see,

AMD Barts(HD6870) die size is 255mm2
AMD Pitcairn(HD7870) die size is 212mm2

Now, we can have ~221 dies per 300mm wafer for Barts and ~269 dies per 300mm wafer for Pitcairn.

Lets assume Barts have 85% yields and Pitcairn has 60%.

We get , ~187 Barts dies and ~161 Pitcairn dies.

40nm 300mm Wafer cost at TSMC = $5000
Each Barts die will cost ~$27

28nm 300mm Wafer cost at TSMC = $6000, that is 20% higher cost than 40nm
Each Pitcairn die will cost ~$37 = $10 higher than Barts

28nm 300mm Wafer cost at TSMC = $7500, that is 50% higher cost than 40nm
Each Pitcairn die will cost ~$46 = $19 higher than Barts

It seams that even with 50% higher wafer prices and lower yields it doesnt justify the $100 price increase of HD7870 over the HD6870 launched MSRP.

I strongly believe that higher manufacturing cost is not what drives prices higher than before.

Twice the RAM too. And don't forget, a simple thing as a $5 increase in manufacturing translate to $20-25 increase in final product easily. It's not like they turn around and sell it to us what it cost them. Everyone involved wants to make money from the chip vendor (AMD), to the board vendor (AIB), to the distributor, and finally the channel.

A $20 increase in a chip would easily account for a $50-60 increase in MSRP. Tact on extra RAM and that new car smell - bam!

 

[3DVagabond]

Twice the RAM too. And don't forget, a simple thing as a $5 increase in manufacturing translate to $20-25 increase in final product easily. It's not like they turn around and sell it to us what it cost them. Everyone involved wants to make money from the chip vendor (AMD), to the board vendor (AIB), to the distributor, and finally the channel.

A $20 increase in a chip would easily account for a $50-60 increase in MSRP. Tact on extra RAM and that new car smell - bam!

Yes. That and it's not dollars and cents, it's percentages. If the card costs 50% more to make, then guess how much more it costs us to buy it. They maintain the same % of gross profits, where possible.

 

[AtenRa]

Twice the RAM too. And don't forget, a simple thing as a $5 increase in manufacturing translate to $20-25 increase in final product easily. It's not like they turn around and sell it to us what it cost them. Everyone involved wants to make money from the chip vendor (AMD), to the board vendor (AIB), to the distributor, and finally the channel.

A $20 increase in a chip would easily account for a $50-60 increase in MSRP. Tact on extra RAM and that new car smell - bam!

Ram prices have fallen substantially since the HD6870 1GB was released 15+ months ago, 2GB today could even be cheaper than 1GB at that time.

 

[Subyman]

As consumers, we don't care about manufacturing costs. We care about the utility we get out of an item we are potentially going to purchase. At 350, the 7870 holds up well against last gen cards, but is that exciting? Not really. I, as a consumer, get excited at around 299 along with many other consumers. We don't care at all about the mechanisms behind the price except in a purely academic way.

 

[Leadbox]

As consumers, we don't care about manufacturing costs. We care about the utility we get out of an item we are potentially going to purchase. At 350, the 7870 holds up well against last gen cards, but is that exciting? Not really. I, as a consumer, get excited at around 299 along with many other consumers. We don't care at all about the mechanisms behind the price except in a purely academic way.

You were being asked to pay $500+ for this level of performance not too long ago. The 580 was not this fast when it launched some 14 months ago. Now you get ~580 performance for $350 and still you whineIt's not like your game collection has swelled up with demanding titles or something........

 

[railven]

Ram prices have fallen substantially since the HD6870 1GB was released 15+ months ago, 2GB today could even be cheaper than 1GB at that time.

Keyword, could, and again an increase in cost during manufacturing is a direct increase to cost to MSRP.

Just the increase in crude oil again would increase the cost of production (Have you checked airplane fares lately, woof they reflect that shift in cost almost overnight.)

In my neck of the world, the trip I planned for my best friend's wedding was used with a $3.50 per gas estimate at the time gas was going for $3.35 (about two months ago I planned it.) I thought I was thinking ahead using a higher gas price estimate, yesterday at the pump I paid $3.70, the trip is next month. Woof!

How the small things add up in the end.

 

[Zanovar]

Accuracy matters here. 6970 was $369.

Proof: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4061/amds-radeon-hd-6970-radeon-hd-6950

I've never seen a 6970 for over $400.

I am of the belief that this is one of the worst moments in GPU history when it comes to price/performance improvements year-to-year. Honestly, I've never seen a better argument for buying last-gen parts for cheap.

Agree with this also,/underwhelmed

 

[AtenRa]

Keyword, could, and again an increase in cost during manufacturing is a direct increase to cost to MSRP.

Just the increase in crude oil again would increase the cost of production (Have you checked airplane fares lately, woof they reflect that shift in cost almost overnight.)

In my neck of the world, the trip I planned for my best friend's wedding was used with a $3.50 per gas estimate at the time gas was going for $3.35 (about two months ago I planned it.) I thought I was thinking ahead using a higher gas price estimate, yesterday at the pump I paid $3.70, the trip is next month. Woof!

How the small things add up in the end.

Crude oil price is increasing but Ship freight fares have been declining for the past two years. Manufacturing cost of the PCB, heat-sink etc are almost the same as it was 15+ months. Memory prices have been decreased since the HD6870 was released and the only component of the HD7870 that its price may have increased is the die. But that increase is not responsible for the $100 price premium in MSRP that HD7870 has right now.

The prices are high due to low manufacturing capacity, not because crude oil price or the 2GB memory or anything else.

just for the laugh,

1GB DDR-3 1333MHz dimm = 10,99 + 0,99 shipping

2GB DDR-3 1333MHz dimm = 13,99 + free shipping

Definitely 2GB GDDR-5 is cheaper today than 1GB 15+ months ago

 

[Attic]

From what I've seen the 7870 should be around or lower than GTX460 1GB, with many sources pointing at even lower than a 6870, which consumes less power than a GTX460.

(snip)

Nice, great. Even more attractive, though price is $100 above where most of the 460GTX type crowd would be willing to pull the trigger.

It has been awhile since i've seen a $200 card (4850 was last one) from AMD that i really like, AMD seems to sabatoge this price point.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Definitely 2GB GDDR-5 is cheaper today than 1GB 15+ months ago

You linked to DDR3 prices, not GDDR5. Completely different memory technology.

 

[railven]

Crude oil price is increasing but Ship freight fares have been declining for the past two years. Manufacturing cost of the PCB, heat-sink etc are almost the same as it was 15+ months. Memory prices have been decreased since the HD6870 was released and the only component of the HD7870 that its price may have increased is the die. But that increase is not responsible for the $100 price premium in MSRP that HD7870 has right now.

The prices are high due to low manufacturing capacity, not because crude oil price or the 2GB memory or anything else.

just for the laugh,

1GB DDR-3 1333MHz dimm = 10,99 + 0,99 shipping

2GB DDR-3 1333MHz dimm = 13,99 + free shipping

Definitely 2GB GDDR-5 is cheaper today than 1GB 15+ months ago

I'm not even claiming that the increase cost solely comes from the increased in cost. Everything you've said as your counter doesn't disprove what I've said, in fact you leave my position open and valid with keywords as "should" be cheaper and "almost the same." I'm just telling you that simple mechanics of manufacturing, any increase (whether pennies) in production is inflated in cost to the end user. A simple $20 increase JUST on the die could increase MSRP as much as $40-60 easily. The other $40 comes from the "new car smell" ie - a new product, and other smaller costs that are associated with bring the product to retail. Supply and demand can well offset that extra point.

You act as if a ~$20 increase in die translates 1:1 to a $20 increase in MSRP, I'm saying it doesn't, and just threw little things in there that COULD, ie not factually, explain the other portion of the increase MSRP.

And again, they buy wholesale (bulk) which is affected by shipping cost, which has actually gone up ever since the BP crisis. It's not like they get free shipping, not even sure why you are using a consumer level product to justify your position. Those two products you linked can easily be 40-50 cents different in production cost yet have a $3 difference to the consumer? That only supports what I've been saying.

EDIT: Just a quick Google search:

http://www.tyrepress.com/News/market-data/freight_rates/24725.html

I honestly don't know where you get the notion that freight shipping has been declining, it's been rising for the last two years due to increases in cost, stricter regulations, and pirates/robbery.

 

[Zanovar]

I'm not even claiming that the increase cost solely comes from the increased in cost. Everything you've said as your counter doesn't disprove what I've said, in fact you leave my position open and valid with keywords as "should" be cheaper and "almost the same." I'm just telling you that simple mechanics of manufacturing, any increase (whether pennies) in production is inflated in cost to the end user. A simple $20 increase JUST on the die could increase MSRP as much as $40-60 easily. The other $40 comes from the "new car smell" ie - a new product, and other smaller costs that are associated with bring the product to retail. Supply and demand can well offset that extra point.

You act as if a ~$20 increase in die translates 1:1 to a $20 increase in MSRP, I'm saying it doesn't, and just threw little things in there that COULD, ie not factually, explain the other portion of the increase MSRP.

And again, they buy wholesale (bulk) which is affected by shipping cost, which has actually gone up ever since the BP crisis. It's not like they get free shipping, not even sure why you are using a consumer level product to justify your position. Those two products you linked can easily be 40-50 cents different in production cost yet have a $3 difference to the consumer? That only supports what I've been saying.

jeez you not bought a card yet?

 

[Zanovar]

jeez you not bought a card yet?

What card do you actually have atm?

 

[railven]

What card do you actually have atm?

Me? 9800 GTX+. The card I hasn't been in stock. So, playing the waiting game.

 

[Zanovar]

What card do you actually have atm?

wtf im talking tomyself hahahahah

 

[Zanovar]

Me? 9800 GTX+. The card I hasn't been in stock. So, playing the waiting game.

ah, ok man will be a good upgradw ,what ever you decide on grabbing.

 

[railven]

ah, ok man will be a good upgradw ,what ever you decide on grabbing.

Already sold off my HD 5870, so yeah, right now just waiting. Sucks cuz newegg has it in stock ONLY if you buy something with it, but nothing they bundle with it is worth the extra cost to me.