Radeon 7870/7850 Reviews Are up!

[3DVagabond]

You know what.

It seems like AMD thinks it' has NVidia all figured out.

And....

NVidia thinks it has AMD all figured out.



One of em, is going to get severely hurt in the next month or so.

Wonder who :O

Mate, it's more likely to be you and me, not either of them.

 

[chimaxi83]

So when are these being released? I checked newegg and didn't see any in stock.

March 19th, according to the AT review.

 

[AnandThenMan]

So when are these being released? I checked newegg and didn't see any in stock.

Has been mentioned in just about every review, March 19th they will be available.

 

[3DVagabond]

What we'd need is a Federal investigation for price fixing if that were to happen. :whiste:

Assuming the Feds cared about us (which they don't). They're 2 US companies (which matters), and unless someone has them on tape agreeing to set pricing, it's not going to happen. There's no law that says they have to have price wars. They are perfectly free to sell their product for whatever the market will bare, unfortunately.

 

[3DVagabond]

Thanks for missing the point of the entire post where I clearly expressed 2 opposing views. I also said they both make sense depending on where you are in the upgrade cycle and if you are buying today or not. Please go re-read it again.

If the highest-end Kepler is not 40-50% faster than GTX580, and Kepler generation doesn't blow HD7950/7970 series in terms of performance, you can tell me I was wrong. :thumbsup:

If HD7870 being so close to HD7950 doesn't ring that something doesn't make any sense, I don't know what to tell you.

Tom's and AnandTech both ran 2560x1600 benches and HD7870, GTX580 and HD7950 are all more or less cuddled together. The thing is GTX580 level of performance is at most upper-midrange on NV's timeline scale between generations. That means by extension, HD7950 is upper-midrange at most, not high-end as it pretends to be right now at $450.

Don't believe me?

GeForce 3 Ti 500 < GeForce 4 4200Ti (midrange)
GeForce 4 4800 < FX5700U (midrange)
FX5950 Ultra < 6600GT (midrange)
6800 Ultra < 7800GT (midrange)
7900GTX < 8800GT (midrange)
8800GTX < GTX260 (upper-midrange)
GTX280/285 < GTX460 1GB (midrange)
GTX480/580 < "GTX560Ti replacement" (upper-midrange)

If NV actually follows its cadence as it has since GeForce 3, the current GTX580/HD7950 series will look like a toy compared to what's coming.

When, is the question though. When is this 40%-50% faster card coming? Q3? Q4? 2013? IF the rumors of 2nd half of 2012 the earliest are true, that 40%-50% might not look so impressive. We could have 1300+ MHz (Sapphire Atomic) 7970's by then that will just as fast. BigGK is also rumored to be ~550mm^2 again. nVidia's got to be getting tired of competing with <400mm^2 chips with these. It can't be particularly cost effective.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

Maybe AMD will release a 7830 to cover the gap between the 78xx and the 77xx? It just looks strange to me.

 

[3DVagabond]

So a quick recap:

• If you bought a 5870 for $380, you should still be laughing (or crying if you wanted a good upgrade for same money)
• If you bought a 6950 for <$250 and unlocked the shaders, you should have a smile on your face
• If you own a 6970, nothing to see here, move along
• AMD purposely set the prices $50 high to give wiggle room when Kepler launches
• 28nm overclocking is a gift from the OCing gods
  [*]Most importantly, if you can still find a 6950/6970 buy it now!

I agree with everything except the last statement. The 7800 and 6900 are about the same price. The 7800 creams it. (Have to grab those clock sliders to do it, but it does.)

The 7850 with only 1x6pin connector is pretty impressive, IMO. Just need someone to modify the bios to allow it to be O/C'd to it's full potential.

 

[3DVagabond]

Haha so I finally got to talk to the gf about this. Pretty much said "with a mild of its gtx 580 performance for $350 that's perfect."

She told me to go eff myself she'll wait for Nvidia. Haha. Well the had is set. Wait for price cuts or good delivery from GK104.

It's OK, mate. We have your back. We assume she has some other redeeming qualities.

There's a pants joke in there somewhere. :whiste:

You're a cold hearted man, AnandThenMan.

 

[3DVagabond]

6950's have been doing this for over a year. Can't say it's anything new.

Not typically with stock cooling, though. You have to wind the piss out of a 6950 to get it to the 580.

 

[3DVagabond]

Where are people seeing the 7870 use less power than the 6870?

The Tech Report

 

[Haserath]

This price increase across the line should only be a one time thing anyway. AMD finally charges a price that makes a decent amount of profit, and everybody has verbal pricing diarrhea.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5026/amd-q311-results-97mil-on-strong-llano-sales

Finally, the graphics division of AMD once again turned a operating income of $12M on revenue of $403M.

Don't you think they needed this?

 

[MrK6]

I think the 7850 gets a little closer with less hassle (the definition of the hassle is a question of opinion).

Not typically with stock cooling, though. You have to wind the piss out of a 6950 to get it to the 580.

With stock cooling sure, but I agree with Gaia that it's easier on a 7850, especially once you can add volts. My point is more that the performance isn't that great of a jump, but it's everything else in the package that makes it great (especially the power consumption, wow).

And as an engineer myself I can't stop being impressed by the fact it does do so with the power consumption of a 6870 and an even smaller die size (I know that part of the work goes to TSMC engineers).

Amen. I finally got to sit down and read some other reviews and I am impressed.

Shame that AMD doesn't seem interested on going gung ho.

7970 + MSI Afterburner

 

[skipsneeky2]

The Tech Report

Dayum,even a nice oc on the 7870 and it still pulls less then a 6870,god i love this series,in fact this is the first gpu series to captivate me so much,even fermi didn't captivate like this and i used to be a hardcore nvidia fan,not any more.:thumbsup:

Good job amd,just lower the price a tad bit more and you may very well have the next 9700 pro,the stuff of legend.

 

[Silverforce11]

Here's where you all make the mistake of assuming next gen should always continue to offer amazing perf/$ comparatively.

The transition to 28nm is much more costly than previous node switch (got this from an TSMC conference, dont have the URL atm). As we get down to smaller nodes, the cost skyrockets. If the yields are great, you can recover more good dies per wafer overall making the cost spike minimal.. but inversely, if yields are low, expect to pay a lot more. Who thinks 28nm yield is as good as 40nm?

Factor 2, board components using rare earth minerals (pretty much every IC, cap, chokes, vrms), these I haven't checked their price trends but I'm assuming the huge increase in raw material prices haven't helped.

Assuming identical target die size & TDP limit design, next gen should improve over previous gen by ~60-80% per full node jump. We've been getting that. But price wise, its going up and going to continue to go up. As such, whenever gk104 comes out, I suspect it will not be positioned to price-war but fit in nicely where both companies can profit.

 

[Joseph F]

Where are people seeing the 7870 use less power than the 6870?

http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-radeon-hd-7850-and-7870-review/7

 

[Olikan]

If anything, HD7870 reveals how poor the HD7950 is. The extra 55% memory bandwidth isn't helping HD7950 in higher resolutions by much. It looks like HD7900 series is very much ROP starved, which explains why memory bandwidth starts to become a huge factor once that bottleneck opens up the minute the 7900 series GPU is cranked to say 1200mhz+. Either way, there are some balance issues here.

reading at beyond 3d forums,
the 77XX and 78XX series, have a 4-3-3 cache configuration, it's more eficient than the 79XX, that have 4-4-2

 

[lifeblood]

BigGK is also rumored to be ~550mm^2 again. nVidia's got to be getting tired of competing with <400mm^2 chips with these. It can't be particularly cost effective.

As long as their making money off it, and JHH is at the helm, I don't think they will get tired of it. A lot of what NV does seems to be driven by his ego (which is not necessarily a bad thing) and having the top card/product is important to him.

As much as I like the 7000 series, NV will release Kepler which I suspect will be bigger, more expensive, and faster. Sounds like we'll be finding out in the not to distant future. As long as they don't take long I'm willing to wait and see. But not too long...

 

[lifeblood]

reading at beyond 3d forums,
the 77XX and 78XX series, have a 4-3-3 cache configuration, it's more eficient than the 79XX, that have 4-4-2

I wonder have soon after BigK we'll see a 7970 respin with greater than 1GHz speed and a 4-3-3 configuration?

 

[wahdangun]

yeah, this card is amazing overclocker, and i have doubt that GK104 will outperform it with significant lead.

 

[WMD]

Fixed.

Compare:

HD7970 100% MORE PERFORMANCE
Release: Jan 2012
Cost: $550 (>100% HIGHER COST)
So in 2009, it took 1 year and 30% more money to double your performance. In this generation, it took over 2 years and more than double your money to double your performance.

An even better comparison would be:
4870 ($300, June 2008 -> 5850 ($260, Sept. 2009) -> 7850 ($250, March 2012)

Three cards all for roughly the same price. About 60% more performance from 4870 to 5850, about 30% more performance from 5850 to 7850, and it took twice as long to get that gain. The rate of of advance in performance per dollar has thus slowed by 4x.

Good post. You are right except the 7970 is not quite double of 5850 performance.

 

[tincart]

The Tech Report

That's pretty impressive. In that benchmark the OC'd 7870 turns out 26% more performance than a 570 while only consuming 80% of the power.

 

[bryanW1995]

Amazing cards in every metric except one. As Brent over at [H] put it, we can thank Jensen for that.

Yes. I'm actually quite impressed with the 7870, it gets dangerously close to 7950 in many instances and it's clearly superior to 6970 and gtx 570. But that price just kills it for me. I supect that they'll be down closer to $150/$250 once NV comes out with Kepler, until then...meh.

 

[3DVagabond]

As long as their making money off it, and JHH is at the helm, I don't think they will get tired of it. A lot of what NV does seems to be driven by his ego (which is not necessarily a bad thing) and having the top card/product is important to him.

As much as I like the 7000 series, NV will release Kepler which I suspect will be bigger, more expensive, and faster. Sounds like we'll be finding out in the not to distant future. As long as they don't take long I'm willing to wait and see. But not too long...

There is nothing saying BigGK is going to be out any time soon. If, as Charlie has said, GK104 comes out as the 680, we'll likely not see it until the 700 series. This has actually been rumored for a while now. Good news is I doubt nVidia would release the GTX-680 and have it be slower than the 7970. It might have most of the O/C'ing room wrung out of it, but I would expect it to be faster.

Yes. I'm actually quite impressed with the 7870, it gets dangerously close to 7950 in many instances and it's clearly superior to 6970 and gtx 570. But that price just kills it for me. I supect that they'll be down closer to $150/$250 once NV comes out with Kepler, until then...meh.

Why do you expect that? It's looking like GK104, if released as the 680, will be nVidia's top card for a while. I don't expect them to make it any kind of a bargain, if it is.

 

[boochi]

AMD missed the sweet spot on pricing these cards by $50.

 

[mrcmtl]

If anything, HD7870 reveals how poor the HD7950 is. The extra 55% memory bandwidth isn't helping HD7950 in higher resolutions by much. It looks like HD7900 series is very much ROP starved, which explains why memory bandwidth starts to become a huge factor once that bottleneck opens up the minute the 7900 series GPU is cranked to say 1200mhz+. Either way, there are some balance issues here.

You should factor in the fact that the HD7950 is running its SP at 800Mhz. Overclock the 7950 to 1Ghz and then you can have a fair comparison. Take the Anand review of the 900Mhz 7950 and add it to the new 7870 review. Maybe you'll think otherwise.

Also keep in mind that most of the benches from the 7950 are those taken during the 7950 review and not a rerun with new drivers.