Racism in modern America

[Kaido]

Note: Not intending for this to be a P&N thread, although it may be more appropriate there, if it needs to be moved. Serious discussion topic, however.

Preface: One of my best friends is black. I am white. As I've gotten older, I've definitely gotten more aware of "white privilege" in America. Today, I learned something new about racism in America that I had never even heard of before. Snippet of the conversation:

Me: Hey, what's new?

Friend: Nothing much. Gave my kiddo "the talk" today.

Me: Ah, the birds & the bees huh?

Friend: No...oh...no, the cop talk.

Me: The what?

Yeah so long story short, he's had to have the "police talk" with each of his kids as they've gotten older. The gist of it is basically teaching them how to behave around police officers should they get pulled over or run into officers or anything like that. Two of the key points were (1) put your hands on your head to show that you're not holding a weapon, and (2) even if your white friends are mouthing off to the cops, you behave respectfully no matter what and do not smart off.

Whaaaaaaaat the heck. This was a mildly horrifying dose of reality for me...it's just something I've never had to worry about before, or even think about before, and yet my friend felt required to teach all of his kids this as they each got older. The most I've ever learned is when you get pulled over, roll down the window, put both hands on the wheel, and be polite to the officer, which is a pretty normal way to deal with an authority figure, especially one who has a gun & can throw you in jail. But having to teach your kid, in 2018, that you should put your hands on your head?! That's beyond awful! And apparently this is a pretty common thing for African-American families to have to do with their kids, although there is some disagreement about its actual effectiveness:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...aching-black-kids_us_590a133ee4b084f59b49fef0

I don't know why I made this post, I just wanted to vent a little, I guess, and share something I learned that would have never entered my mind otherwise. And even venting sounds kind of pitiful because I'm not even in that situation! I can't change the world and I can't change prejudices, and it bothers me that my friend has to live with this as a reality in his life. This isn't Syria or the war-torn Middle East, this is modern-day America. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 ended all state and local laws requiring segregation; here we are 50+ years later and my buddy has to sit his kids down to teach them how best not to get shot by the police simply because of the color of their skin.

That is all.

 

[dasherHampton]

I read "The case for reparations" a few weeks ago. I didn't know how I'd react but my thoughts after reading were mostly positive.

It succeeded in opening up my line of thinking on the subject, at least to a point. The article certainly isn't perfect and relies a little too much on anecdotal memories that can't be verified, but I think it's must read for whites like me.

 

[Kaido]

I read "The case for reparations" a few weeks ago. I didn't know how I'd react but my thoughts after reading were mostly positive.

It succeeded in opening up my line of thinking on the subject, at least to a point. The article certainly isn't perfect and relies a little too much on anecdotal memories that can't be verified, but I think it's must read for whites like me.

This one?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

 

[dasherHampton]

Yeah, I think thats it.

 

[LikeLinus]

Despite the fact that you're a racist, I will say that I have also told my kids how to act around police officers. We are white and it's not about racism, it's because millennials are assholes. Pretty much this. But I still love you. It's all good.

 

[Kaido]

I will say that I have also told my kids how to act around police officers. We are white and it's not about racism

You can say that it's not about racism, because you haven't had to deal with it, but that doesn't make it any less of a reality for the people who DO have to deal with it.

Which is one of the reasons I posted this thread...I had no idea that having to have a "how to act around the police so as not to get shot because of the color of your skin" was not only a thing in African-American families, but apparently a common thing

 

[LikeLinus]

You can say that it's not about racism, because you haven't had to deal with it, but that doesn't make it any less of a reality for the people who DO have to deal with it.

Which is one of the reasons I posted this thread...I had no idea that having to have a "how to act around the police so as not to get shot because of the color of your skin" was not only a thing in African-American families, but apparently a common thing

You are absolutely right, I have not had to deal with it because I'm upper middle class. That said, I was joking with you. You apparently dont watch the news to be so blatantly oblivious to the racial profiling and tension in America. It is a huge problem with protest and more. I have talked with my kids about being polite with officers. But the reality is that there are situations that happen.....

 

[Kaido]

It succeeded in opening up my line of thinking on the subject, at least to a point. The article certainly isn't perfect and relies a little too much on anecdotal memories that can't be verified, but I think it's must read for whites like me.

There was a good article from back in 2012 that opened me up to the idea that "privilege" is a very real thing in modern society. It had a very good analogy as well, that being a straight white male is basically playing the game on life on the lowest difficult setting available:

https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

One of the biggest dangers of privilege is simply that those who have it are often completely ignorant toward those who don't, and thus brush it off like it's no big deal or isn't real. And that's where the key problem lies...what appears to be a non-issue to one person is the daily reality for another person in a different situation. I had no idea that my buddy had to sit his kids down & give them that talk because to me, that's not something that should have to happen today or even be an issue at all, and yet that's the reality they have to life with because of the color of their skin & where they live (America, that is - they live in a good neighborhood, but it's still an issue!).

 

[brianmanahan]

50 years ago isn't really a long time. i figure we'll probably have another 50 to 100 years or so like this.

or maybe it'll just always be like this.

and i sympathize with the cop issue. after my run-in with them when i was a toddler, i am certainly no fan of them.

 

[SKORPI0]

It's really sad, now you can't even bbq in a park because you're black. Hopefully this white trash woman is identified and "fat shamed".


Oakland Woman Calls Police on Black People Grilling ‘Illegally’ in Public Park

 

[Kaido]

You apparently dont watch the news to be so blatantly oblivious to the racial profiling and tension in America. It is a huge problem with protest and more. I have talked with my kids about being polite with officers. But the reality is that there are situations that happen.....

I do, but it's always been a news segment rather than something that hits at home. I would probably classify my upbringing as lower-middle-class. I never had to deal with living in a ghetto or in a food desert or in places where people got shot on a regular basis (re: Chicago) or where gang violence was any kind of big issue, it was mostly just DUI's & the occasional B&E type of stuff.

And of course, it is easy to understand because human differences create issues across all walks of life. This doesn't compare to actual racism, but I've definitely experienced some light bigotry (not sure if that's the right word?) for simply looking nerdy. I look like a chubby Bill Gates - pale skin, glasses, combover, the works. Growing up, everyone automatically assumed I worked on computers & could fix theirs, when in reality, it wasn't really a "thing" in my life. To be perfectly frank, one of the very real reasons I got into computers was simply because I looked the part. And I think one of the reasons I get hired for IT jobs is because I look like a geek, so therefore I must know what I'm doing, right? It's kind of funny from the outside, but I had to deal with the nerd label all throughout grade school, even though it didn't actually apply to me & I didn't even build a computer from scratch until after I graduated high school.

I can't find the article, but there was an interesting write-up that I read a year or two ago about an algorithm they made regarding CEO's - typically older, male, white, salt & pepper hair, friendly face, etc., and how that "look" is what companies wanted as the public, reassuring face of their companies, regardless of whether or not they actually contributed anything in their actual jobs.

 

[Kaido]

50 years ago isn't really a long time. i figure we'll probably have another 50 to 100 years or so like this.

or maybe it'll just always be like this.

and i sympathize with the cop issue. after my run-in with them when i was a toddler, i am certainly no fan of them.

What was your run-in like, and you actually remember it that young?!

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

OP - please proceed to pull your head out of your ass.

I've had the same talk - and I've looked up the same advice... None of it was segregated by race as to what actions one should take. Regardless of one's race... regardless of one's gender... regardless of one's age... You are the cop's bitch for that 5-15 minute time period. Give it to them, knowing that they are likely some stupid fuck that is on a power trip. It is in your best interest to always do such. Not once in my life did I ever get out of a ticket until I learned of this - which wasn't until I was in the working world.

Jesus fuck, even SNOPES has done an article on this. The fact that you have the nerve to post something so asinine is mind boggling. The fact that one insignificant life warped your brain so much that you went negative on your IQ is mind boggling. You might as well be watching Alex Jones and wearing a tin foil hat every day with how inept your thought process is. The fact that this has changed your thought process in the slightest is just pathetic and downright sad.

That said, everyone is prejudice... including black cops. But that doesn't jive with whatever narrative that has warped your brain, does it? No of course not. Keep on putting your head in the sand. Whatever makes you sleep better at night.

 

[LikeLinus]

I do, but it's always been a news segment rather than something that hits at home. I would probably classify my upbringing as lower-middle-class. I never had to deal with living in a ghetto or in a food desert or in places where people got shot on a regular basis (re: Chicago) or where gang violence was any kind of big issue, it was mostly just DUI's & the occasional B&E type of stuff.

And of course, it is easy to understand because human differences create issues across all walks of life. This doesn't compare to actual racism, but I've definitely experienced some light bigotry (not sure if that's the right word?) for simply looking nerdy. I look like a chubby Bill Gates - pale skin, glasses, combover, the works. Growing up, everyone automatically assumed I worked on computers & could fix theirs, when in reality, it wasn't really a "thing" in my life. To be perfectly frank, one of the very real reasons I got into computers was simply because I looked the part. And I think one of the reasons I get hired for IT jobs is because I look like a geek, so therefore I must know what I'm doing, right? It's kind of funny from the outside, but I had to deal with the nerd label all throughout grade school, even though it didn't actually apply to me & I didn't even build a computer from scratch until after I graduated high school.

I can't find the article, but there was an interesting write-up that I read a year or two ago about an algorithm they made regarding CEO's - typically older, male, white, salt & pepper hair, friendly face, etc., and how that "look" is what companies wanted as the public, reassuring face of their companies, regardless of whether or not they actually contributed anything in their actual jobs.

I get it, I really do. The issue is that news segments are reality. It doesn't hit home because it doesn't affect you. That's natural. But you cant ignore it or down play it. We live in a world that is judged by color/age and sex sometimes. It's best you talk with your children and be honest. None of us want it to be real, but it is. Protect them and educate them as much as possible.

 

[Kaido]

It's really sad, now you can't even bbq in a park because you're black. Hopefully this white trash woman is identified and "fat shamed".


Oakland Woman Calls Police on Black People Grilling ‘Illegally’ in Public Park

I can't believe this isn't a picture out of the Onion or Urban Dictionary or something. Is she really in a panic because people are having a BBQ?

 

[Kaido]

I get it, I really do. The issue is that news segments are reality. It doesn't hit home because it doesn't affect you. That's natural. But you cant ignore it or down play it. We live in a world that is judged by color sometimes. It's best you talk with your children and be honest. None of us want it to be real, but it is.

Yup. Maybe it's a small thing compared to all of the other craziness & awful situations that are happening in the world today, but I just hate that kids have to be taught that. I'd like to think that our society has progressed beyond that & that we can all feel safe, and it makes me sad that that's not the case. That's all.

 

[SKORPI0]

I can't find the article, but there was an interesting write-up that I read a year or two ago about an algorithm they made regarding CEO's - typically older, male, white, salt & pepper hair, friendly face, etc., and how that "look" is what companies wanted as the public, reassuring face of their companies, regardless of whether or not they actually contributed anything in their actual jobs.

Maybe this one from Forbes - Aug 2013?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemyatt/2013/08/13/infographic-dna-of-fortune-100-ceos/#595a243f7fbd

 

[dasherHampton]

There was a good article from back in 2012 that opened me up to the idea that "privilege" is a very real thing in modern society. It had a very good analogy as well, that being a straight white male is basically playing the game on life on the lowest difficult setting available:

https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

That article is kind of cheeky, but who knows what truths lie beneath?

My dad was an immigrant, but he was a straight white handsome male (dead ringer for Gary Cooper).

He became a very successful doctor and made millions. If he had been a gay black handsome male could he have done the same?

 

[brianmanahan]

What was your run-in like, and you actually remember it that young?!

i picked up a little matchbox car in a store while my mom was getting some stuff off the shelves at a dollar store, and while she was preoccupied i put it her purse without her noticing. store security apparently saw me do it but said nothing until we got through checkout. then they detained her and called the cops.

she had no idea and tried to give it back but they wouldn't listen. cops came, put me and my mom in the back of the cop car, drove us to the police station and charged her with shoplifting. my dad had to come and get me.

i still vividly remember sitting and crying in the back of that car, looking through the grate at the guys in the front, not knowing exactly what was happening but realizing that it was my fault and it was really bad.

edit: re: my memory, it's pretty bad at retaining events that happened nowadays, but it was really good when i was young. i can still remember a couple things that happened before i was 1 like they were yesterday. i think the seizures i frequently had when i was really young might have helped me to remember stuff.

 

[Kaido]

None of it was segregated by race as to what actions one should take.

That's exactly my point: one of the problems with having a certain privilege means that those of us who have it may not only be blind to it, but are also willing to easily brush off the idea, simply because it's not something that we personally have to deal with. And that doesn't mean it's not real & that it doesn't exist, just because we may choose to ignore it.

Now, is that the same as getting beaten down like Rodney King? No, but you do have to deal with a different set of attitudes & behaviors directed toward you. I've seen this happen with the male vs. female issue as well. It's hilarious how differently my wife gets treated when she goes in for an oil change in her car versus when I go in, just because she's a woman and the guys operating the shop think they get get away with certain things. Stereotypes & prejudices are real, and it's especially unfortunate that kids have to grow up in a world that still behaves that way at times. It's not that I'm blind to reality, but in the case of my post in the OP, I had just never even considered that someone would have to sit their kid down in modern-day America and give talk to them about basically having extra-good behavior around law enforcement due to the color of their skin.

 

[LikeLinus]

Yup. Maybe it's a small thing compared to all of the other craziness & awful situations that are happening in the world today, but I just hate that kids have to be taught that. I'd like to think that our society has progressed beyond that & that we can all feel safe, and it makes me sad that that's not the case. That's all.

It's not a small situation and that is what infuriates me. I have friends of all color and it makes it hard to see what is happening in our country. But I realize I have no control and there isn't anything I can do about it. Support the cause and ride it out. It's old school thinking

 

[Kaido]

i picked up a little matchbox car in a store while my mom was getting some stuff off the shelves at a dollar store, and while she was preoccupied i put it her purse without her noticing. store security apparently saw me do it but said nothing until we got through checkout. then they detained her and called the cops.

she had no idea and tried to give it back but they wouldn't listen. cops came, put me and my mom in the back of the cop car, drove us to the police station and charged her with shoplifting. my dad had to come and get me.

i still vividly remember sitting and crying in the back of that car, looking through the grate at the guys in the front, not knowing exactly what was happening but realizing that it was my fault and it was really bad.

edit: re: my memory, it's pretty bad at retaining events that happened nowadays, but it was really good when i was young. i can still remember a couple things that happened before i was 1 like they were yesterday. i think the seizures i frequently had when i was really young might have helped me to remember stuff.

Holy crap dude, that's awful.

And congratulations to the mall cops who saved the world from a 99-cent theft by a toddler. Next up, the Hunger Games!

 

[Kaido]

It's not a small situation and that is what infuriates me. I have friends of all color and it makes it hard to see what is happening in our country. But I realize I have no control and there isn't anything I can do about it. Support the cause and ride it out. It's old school thinking

See, and that's the other half that bothers me. Literally all I can do at the moment is control my own behavior & choose to treat people good instead of like crap; I can't change the rest of the world. I guess this is just a mini vent thread in addition to a "TIL".

It's just frustrating that you have to sit one kid down and teach them a different set of rules than another kid, in the same class, in the same school, in the same neighborhood.

 

[LikeLinus]

i picked up a little matchbox car in a store while my mom was getting some stuff off the shelves at a dollar store, and while she was preoccupied i put it her purse without her noticing. I then brake checked the security guards and got away with it./QUOTE]

See? You're the type of people the news talks about. This is why we have rules. Shaking my head.....

 

[LikeLinus]

See, and that's the other half that bothers me. Literally all I can do at the moment is control my own behavior & choose to treat people good instead of like crap; I can't change the rest of the world. I guess this is just a mini vent thread in addition to a "TIL".

It's just frustrating that you have to sit one kid down and teach them a different set of rules than another kid, in the same class, in the same school, in the same neighborhood.

The hard part is that you can be as sympathetic as possible, but you cant do shit! Then it's worse because you're white and sometimes you're grouped with the other ignorant people, lol. Honestly, live your life and be you. Dont judge and help as you can. Their really isn't a whole lot you can do about centuries of hate. Just try to help change. Not saying you will get anywhere, but it's much better than it was 50 years ago. So there is hope.