Race politics: Blacks are the only minorities, contracts should go to blacks only

[bfdd]

Craig, why do you support segregation?

 

[Craig234]

Craig, I fail to see why black people had it so bad? I mean they weren't the only people taken as slaves during the period so their experience wasn't unique. Unless you are talking about their own people selling them out, then yeah that would be unique because the Europeans that were being taken as slaves sure as fuck weren't turning their own kind over to the Barbary Coast slave traders.

It's a sociological issue I don't think explaining - as much as I could in a post - would do any real good, if you need it explained.

The blacks participating in the slave trade is exaggerated as an issue - not in terms of it existing but in terms of its role compared to centuries of slavery and racism.

You always have members of oppressed groups who 'sell out' to the oppressor when the oppressor wants. You had Jews who assisted Nazis, you had French who assisted Nazis, you have Palestinians who assist Israel, you had Vietnamese who assisted both sides, you have Clarence Thomas, you have Republicans who betray the people for the gains offered from corporate and other powerful interests (not that American 'oppression' is comparable, but the sellout is the same idea).

Of COURSE when some Africans are offered money to participate, some do.

Just as with any group, like the American right-wing today, where the compensation is far higher for those who support the wealthy interests/think tanks/media/etc.

How much do Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity/O'Reilly/Palin make, and how much do Maddow/Olbermann/Moore/Chomsky/Hartmann make?

It's well known among people in those fields that there's a vastly more developed and profitable network on the right than the left for these fields, so you can pick the money and supporting harm to the public, or you can do the right thing for hugely less money on average.

Similar analogy could even be used for the drug trade, in poor communities where it offers a ridiculously tempting rewards for doing the wrong thing. Some do it. It's not a bad analogy - people destroying lives whether capturing slaves or selling drugs, for the reward.

One thing, though, drug addicts get a lot more freedom not to use drugs than blacks ever got with slavery and racism.

 

[bfdd]

Craig, you didn't answer my question. Why are they special? What makes them so special? Nothing as they weren't the only slaves, just the most recent. Also, can you answer my other question. Why do you support segregation?

 

[CanOWorms]

No, it doesn't. A brief period of discrimination against a free group of people who have a culture, history, community is not at all like the history of African-Americans.



What happened to Native Americans was basically genocide and being forced onto reservations, their land stolen and way of life destroyed, with destructive results now.

But even that is very different than the African-American experience.

They didn't have centuries of being slaves to whites, and then a century of living as second-class citizens in white society.

One of the only things as sad as your post showing a lack of understanding of the history is the posting defending Rush.

Every group would have a different history than another.

 

[PokerGuy]

How much do Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity/O'Reilly/Palin make, and how much do Maddow/Olbermann/Moore/Chomsky/Hartmann make?

The obvious correct answer is that it has nothing to do with supporting wealthy interests and everything to do with the former group producing a product that people want to consume, while the latter group is full of crap that nobody wants to consume (see: ratings). Who the heck wants to hear that moron Maddow or Olbershmuck?

 

[Atreus21]

Ah, thanks for ending the long gap (hours!) since the last chance to mention 95%+ of what I see here about liberals is wrong or lies, I can't remember the other 5%.

As for all our racist posters:

The fact is, that African Americans have a unique history in the United States. Unlike any other group, millions were brought here by force into a crippling slavery system for centuries, creating an entire demographic group or sub-society of people who did not get educated, form their own culture living in their own houses, going to their own community centers, reading newspapers, developing as a culture and society - treated like animals. Generation after generation after generation after generation.

Not even having their own normal family life to raise their own children as any normal 'civilized society' but only as slaves, if they could not be broken up as a family.

After centuries of this, they were told 'today, you have this history of centuries of slavery; tomorrow, you are to be like anyone else. Go get a job in the market.'

Oh, and by the way, you will be discriminated against in segregation, education, employment, access to public facilities, you will be far poorer than others.

This will keep you down - while other families advance, you do not get access to. That segregation will be in place for another century, until about 1955-1965.

Oh, what a surprise that they were told the race was fair - but they started a mile behind anyone else.

Things like the broken cultural issue no one else quite had from a background of centuries of slavery - well, let's just say it has no lasting impact ok?

That's so much simpler for us, not to have to consider it.

So now, this group of people who are hugely disadvantaged from these centuries of being held down, have had almost 50 years in this 'equal race'.

I'd like to make an analogy to help illustrate the issue - but it defies analogy, being unlike any other situation I can think of in modern history. A false analogy is to point to other groups of poor immigrants to the US - none of which are members of a 'sub-society' with centuries of cultural enslavement. African-Americans are unique in that.

And my gosh, there is still widespread racism, still lingering effects where they are held back from the legacy effects, from the loss of education, the poverty, of ancestors.

So a few modest measures are created where if fair analysis shows that there is big inequality, that mile back for their starting position is moved up to only 0.9 mile back.

Now, enter the ignorant right-wing commentator.

Why, this modest step to counter some tiny bit of the effects of these centuries of history to help the community who has that burden catch up a little is the same thing - racism against the hugely more dominant, powerful, advantaged by centuries of their ancestors advancing, wealthy whites. THOSE LIBERALS WHO DO A TINY BIT FOR EQUALITY ARE THE SAME AS THE RACIST SLAVEOWNERS!!! LIBERAL SCUM!!!!

In short these people are idiots, they are ignorant, they are evil, they are an embarrassment to moral Americans.

There is all kinds of room for discussion of 'black issues', and their responsibilities, their bad choices as well as their good ones, and so on. But there's no reasonable discussion with these idiots. It's a discussion of how to balance the tradeoffs with the goal being a society that does provide more equal *opportunity* - including the legacy effects of racism.

The speaker in the OP may have made the point somewhat clumsily, but he had a point, that while affirmative action can cover and be justified for some other groups where significant inequalities exist for reasons of injustice, African-Americans are unique in their history and the justification for temporary, transitional measures for equal opportunity.

Is it right to discriminate on basis of race? Yes or no.

 

[classy]

Hopefully we get to participate in minority programs like these

LOL, yea, you are going to get some participation alright.

 

[classy]

Uh, how the hell does a country that is only 12% black have a professional basketball league that is 90% black? Is that also the result of racism? Of course not. Just because a percentage of something doesn't reflect the percentage of the population doesn't mean there's anything wrong or unjust. It may, or may not. I don't know how contracts are awarded in Chicago (my guess is, lots of corruption, it's the Chicago way), but I can't make any determination of racism based on the 7% figure. What if only 1% of competitive firms that can realistically perform the services required are black owned? What does the 7% figure say then?

Historically blacks in the US have been the victims of racism in every conceivable way, no doubt about that... However, that doesn't mean other groups have not been the victims of racism as well. We should be moving towards a society where race is not factored into everything, not one where race is the basis for every judgment.

Sports is not even a remote comparison. Guys who make sports teams do it solely based on performance. Teams may choose one athlete over another, but that athlete will have another fair shot. In politics and business, these things are usually decided not based on fair bids or qualifications, but deals and favortism. Doesn't mean the people who got the job aren't qualified, just like those who didn't get the job weren't qualified either.

 

[OneThirtyEight]

Blacks are the most racist people in America besides the ignorant example of white people running around in the South. Other than the yee hawers and the hyuck hyucks, the fuckin blacks are the most racist people and need to STFU.
http://thewhite138.wordpress.com/

 

[Zargon]

No, it doesn't. A brief period of discrimination against a free group of people who have a culture, history, community is not at all like the history of African-Americans.



What happened to Native Americans was basically genocide and being forced onto reservations, their land stolen and way of life destroyed, with destructive results now.

But even that is very different than the African-American experience.

They didn't have centuries of being slaves to whites, and then a century of living as second-class citizens in white society.

One of the only things as sad as your post showing a lack of understanding of the history is the posting defending Rush.

we used the chinese as fodder out west to build the railway. many native americans still live as second class citizens, its less noticable because a) there are less of them b) they are less vocal.


the same fucking shit is still happening in africa in many countries based on old tribal affiliations.

it was years before slavery was 'just blacks' as whites were used as slaves too, even in england, just not quite to the same extent. yes the chinese were 'paid' but were not *really* paid jack shit and were definately treated as second class, for a good 100 years.

 

[waggy]

nobody should get a advantage on ajob because of color. to do so is idiotic. to do so goes against the idea why many get in business anyway and thats to make money.

I don't care if if a company is black, white or whatever owned. are they the best when it comes to competence, price and time? if so they get my money.

 

[piasabird]

I have never met a slave.

 

[classy]

I have never met a slave.

As a little boy I knew two. Miss Emma lived to be 107 I believe. I am 41, I was only about 5-6. Nice lady though. And I forget his name, but he was over 100 too. Both were born on plantations. Slavery didn't really end until like the early 1900s. Believe it or not, some stayed. Had no place to go.

 

[Linflas]

As a little boy I knew two. Miss Emma lived to be 107 I believe. I am 41, I was only about 5-6. Nice lady though. And I forget his name, but he was over 100 too. Both were born on plantations. Slavery didn't really end until like the early 1900s. Believe it or not, some stayed. Had no place to go.

They may have stayed, they may have even been treated like slaves but unlike a real slave if they decided one day to leave and head north no one would have sent a posse or a pack of dogs after them. No underground railroad would have been needed to secret them into Canada which was the only place an escaped slave could be sure not to be sent back if discovered. After the end of the Civil War and the passage of the 13th amenedment there was absolutely no legal structure to keep them in bondage. So slavery did not end in the early 1900's, it ended legally December 6, 1865.

 

[classy]

They may have stayed, they may have even been treated like slaves but unlike a real slave if they decided one day to leave and head north no one would have sent a posse or a pack of dogs after them. No underground railroad would have been needed to secret them into Canada which was the only place an escaped slave could be sure not to be sent back if discovered. After the end of the Civil War and the passage of the 13th amenedment there was absolutely no legal structure to keep them in bondage. So slavery did not end in the early 1900's, it ended legally December 6, 1865.

All that is true. But being a slave was more than just chains. Almost all of them could not read or write. And no skills whatsoever to find any job besides remaining on the plantation. Miss Emma couldn't read. If bondage was just legal, every battered wife would leave her husband. How long has beating one's wife been illegal according to the letter of the law.


On July 31, 1903, a letter to President Theodore Roosevelt arrived at the White House from Carrie Kinsey, a barely literate African American woman in Bainbridge, Georgia. Her fourteen-year-old brother, James Robinson, had been abducted a year earlier and sold to a plantation. Local police would take no interest. "Mr. Prassident," wrote Mrs. Kinsey, struggling to overcome the illiteracy of her world. "They wont let me have him. . . . He hase not don nothing for them to have him in chanes so I rite to you for your help." Like the vast majority of such pleas, her letter was slipped into a small rectangular folder at the Department of Justice and tagged with a reference number, in this case 12007. No further action was ever recorded. Her letter lies today in the National Archives.


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89051115

Man there are countless books written about slavery after the civil war. Slavery didn't end in 1865.

 

[EagleKeeper]

There have been at least 50 years that blacks/African Americans have had the opportunity to rise above slavery (legal or not). Using the Civil Rights era as the starting point.

While some pockets of "slavery" have existed, their own actions are what may be holding them back - finding excuses why they can not make it.

To tolerate those excuses is an insult for those that have suceeded

 

[GuitarDaddy]

I love idiots like Meeks 🙂 They make for great racism detectors, normal people laugh call him an idiot and move on. While hard core racists get all red in the face and start organizing a lynch mob :biggrin:

 

[classy]

There have been at least 50 years that blacks/African Americans have had the opportunity to rise above slavery (legal or not). Using the Civil Rights era as the starting point.

While some pockets of "slavery" have existed, their own actions are what may be holding them back - finding excuses why they can not make it.

To tolerate those excuses is an insult for those that have suceeded

And whites have had at least 50 years to make sure that it would only be blacks own actions that would hold them back. How has it been on that front?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Operating on the assumption that you are African American, what has held you back?

I have a son-in-law (African American) that is a flooring manager for Home Depot. He came out of the tobacco fields of Maryland. He chose to go to college and move up in the ranks of his company.

Another ex son-in-law was destined to be a stock boy at a local grocery store. He was shown that he could succceed in IT hardware and is now a network engineering for a casino.

Either could have pissed and moaned about their circumstances; neither had excellent grades; the second had to have remedial classes - did not learn shit in HS.

Both have made something of themselves because they wanted to.

Excuses may have existed 50 years ago; no longer.
Those blacks/hispanics/asians/whites and every one else has the opportunity to grab for the brass ring. It is the fear of failure that causes them to not do it or slip when touching it.

 

[classy]

Operating on the assumption that you are African American, what has held you back?

I have a son-in-law (African American) that is a flooring manager for Home Depot. He came out of the tobacco fields of Maryland. He chose to go to college and move up in the ranks of his company.

Another ex son-in-law was destined to be a stock boy at a local grocery store. He was shown that he could succceed in IT hardware and is now a network engineering for a casino.

Either could have pissed and moaned about their circumstances; neither had excellent grades; the second had to have remedial classes - did not learn shit in HS.

Both have made something of themselves because they wanted to.

Excuses may have existed 50 years ago; no longer.
Those blacks/hispanics/asians/whites and every one else has the opportunity to grab for the brass ring. It is the fear of failure that causes them to not do it or slip when touching it.

I don't make excuses. I work as as an admin in IT. I know the struggles I have had to battle in this field too. But too many times, many on this board want to discount racism and all its issues as something a long long time ago. This is just not true. There is still some strong racism and prejudice. I had one manager tell me 3 years ago, that I should be happy with any job offered to me in IT, because its rare to see african americans who are accepted. He told me I was a lucky one. He didn't hire me by the way.

You know what that came from, because I wanted to move to an admin slot from a 2nd level tech. So when I say some of these folks here can spare me the bs, I mean that literally. Didn't slow me down though 🙂. I look at it like this. If being black limits me to being able to work at certain places that will offer me advancement, then I gotta find those places. Crying about it ain't gonna help anything. I got a friend right now who is mad about how he is being treated. But has done nothing to prepare himself to go any place else.

Oh I believe in hard work. But I also hope for the day when we are truly equals. If that's wrong, then I guess I'll go to my grave being wrong then.

 

[ShawnD1]

What would these scenarios look like if they were switched around? Example: Detroit is 82% black. What if some white guy in Detroit ran for office and his platform was to only give contracts to white people because Detroit has too many black people. That kinda sounds like something a KKK member would say....

 

[EagleKeeper]

People by default will be prejudicial.

One has to recognize it and work around it.

To use it as an excuse for not moving sideways then upwards but being satisfied with the status quo is all it is. Excuse!

 

[CLite]

Blacks are the most racist people in America besides the ignorant example of white people running around in the South. Other than the yee hawers and the hyuck hyucks, the fuckin blacks are the most racist people and need to STFU.
http://thewhite138.wordpress.com/

My god that blog is trash.

Blacks have segregated schools, so I want segregated schools. Blacks feel comfortable around blacks and so they have all black schools, that seems like simple logic. I love being around white people, it makes me feel comfortable and I want my son to go to all white schools.

Blacks do not have segregated schools, that is illegal. There is no such thing as an all-black school, there are such things as historically black universities but they accept people of all races.

The rest of that link is painful to read like the following, but I will pass on debunking it all.

I say, fuck it, there are plenty of cities take one and make it Little Afghan. Pour acid on your wifes face man, it’s all good you’re just upholding your cultures traditions. Beat your wife for showing some ankle, sell her to your buddy for a BMW and a stake in his 7-11. Cool! Welcome to America, but watch out cause you get arrested for shit like that here man. I prefer not to be anywhere near your city, maybe I’ll pass through it and give some business to your 7-11, that is perfectly fine.

 

[Wordplay]

http://www.suntimes.com/2877318-417/women-contracts-meeks-percent-african.html



Why we even have 'minority contracts' in the first place is beyond me, contracts that are paid by tax payers should go to the most qualified company/individual regardless of anything else. I don't understand why only the government is allowed to discriminate. Imagine if in my private business I put out a job offer and said you had to be a certain skin color to get the job.

He must look at how Detroit does things and wants the same.

What happened to Native Americans was basically genocide and being forced onto reservations, their land stolen and way of life destroyed, with destructive results now.

But even that is very different than the African-American experience.

They didn't have centuries of being slaves to whites, and then a century of living as second-class citizens in white society.

One of the only things as sad as your post showing a lack of understanding of the history is the posting defending Rush.

So almost eliminating an entire culture is nothing compared to being a slave?

Hopefully we get to participate in minority programs like these

Lawl!!

Middle white class does get shafted on some opportunities though. I remember in high school a white friend of mine got pissed because a good number of scholarships or financial aid he didn't get even though us minorities did with similar family income. Every other day you could expect a 5 minute rant from him about it shit was funny.

 

[hal2kilo]

To some extent, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and in Chicago the black discrimination is the greater issue.

The larger issue that should make the GOP pee their pants is the fact that the Hispanic community is not yet an organized political force. Unless we count the South Florida zanies that have shown what an organized Hispanic community can do when united behind a single niche issue. But still the GOP learned a very painful lesson from Pete Wilson in the 1990's when ole bigoted Pete pissed off the entire Hispanic community in California. And now the GOP wonders why they can't win any major elections as the same disease spreads to Nevada and other Solid GOP Western States.

The trend lines are clear, other minority communities and women find better homes in the democratic party. But now the GOP has one last chance in the election of 11/2010.
If the GOP fails to make things better as they claim, the GOP may end up being only the party of old reactionary white men and nothing more.


As for Meeks, he made an idiots argument no one will buy, and thus will not win the general election. But a GOP member has not won mayor of Chicago in living memory. The smart money has to be on Rahm Emanuel now that Daily has declined to run.

They still seem to be clueless as to one of the main causes of Sharon Angle losing.

I hope the Repugs continue to ignore demographics and go the way of the dinosaurs.