R520 ? ?clearly dominates the fastest competitive hardware?

[Blastman]

Some better news ...

rage3d

By now everyone should have seen the benchmarks scores of the R520 over at Hardware Analysis. The article has certainly stirred up a lot of controversy over many different issues. I've discussed the article with an ATI rep whom has told me the following:

• Sander?s benchmarks do not reflect ATI R520 hardware, nor do they reflect the performance of products currently being evaluated by partners.
• The real performance of R520 clearly dominates the fastest competitive hardware
• Sander never tested a board
• Sander used ?custom benchmarks? so he?d have an excuse later for his mistakes (his numbers fall far outside the range of what is reasonable for those games in any custom benchmark)

The last two points are moot as the article states the fact though we have no idea about the timedemos used. Clearly ATI believes in their products performance and states the opposite of what the article suggested. All this of course will be cleared when actual product reviews come out.

Things should get interesting in a few weeks. :beer:

 

[apoppin]

that's to calm the ati fanboys at Rage . . . the rep is PAID to say similar marketing BS ["dominates the competition"]

THIS did NOT deserve its own topic
:thumbsdown:

 

[M0RPH]

I don't think their reps would be saying this stuff if they didn't have the numbers to back it up. Obviously they've done benchmarking between their new cards and the competition.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
I don't think their reps would be saying this stuff if they didn't have the numbers to back it up. Obviously they've done benchmarking between their new cards and the competition.

Why marketers and reps always hype and spin their stuff. What is the definition of "dominates". i am sure that varies quite a bit if you asked 10 ppl....

I am not a big gamer but I cn tell you based on specs it seems the Nvidia cards are going to have some advanatges in certain types of games. So is he talking about all games?? One game?? one specific script of a cretain part of the demo???

You guys claim sanders has too many out and can be lieing....I say the same thing anytime I here a rep talk.....What would you expect them to say?? "Yeah we really came up short on this one and will be lucky if we compete head to head with Nvidias new cards"....Yeah I see that one....


I agree with Apoppin on this one....

 

[hidispenser]

Originally posted by: Duvie
Why marketers and reps always hype and spin their stuff. What is the definition of "dominates". i am sure that varies quite a bit if you asked 10 ppl....

Well, at the bare minimum, dominate would mean turning in a greater score than nVidia on the majority of commonly used test programs/games. So we're not talking about a slower-than-nvidia card.

Originally posted by: Duvie
....I say the same thing anytime I here a rep talk.....What would you expect them to say?? "Yeah we really came up short on this one and will be lucky if we compete head to head with Nvidias new cards"

The rep could've said "those numbers are wrong". Instead he chose the words "clearly dominated", which means they better "dominate" in a way that most people would agree is a "domination" or he and ATI will lose much cred.

 

[Powermoloch]

another fanboyism e-penis pissing fad

 

[Blastman]

Well, the guy sounds pretty confident ATI is going to have a good product, rather than a 16 pipe ?turd? as some people are apt to think. :disgust:

 

[Genx87]

In other news the Nvidia rep said he is a liar.

 

[moonboy403]

all this he said and she said
hahaha
it's so funny how people r fighting for nvidia and ati

 

[Sentential]

You are giving that piece-o-crap too much credit. If you want to see the REAL reason behind that POS's action see here:
http://www.driverheaven.net/showpost.php?p=680856&postcount=17

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: hidispenser

Originally posted by: Duvie
Why marketers and reps always hype and spin their stuff. What is the definition of "dominates". i am sure that varies quite a bit if you asked 10 ppl....

Well, at the bare minimum, dominate would mean turning in a greater score than nVidia on the majority of commonly used test programs/games. So we're not talking about a slower-than-nvidia card.

Originally posted by: Duvie
....I say the same thing anytime I here a rep talk.....What would you expect them to say?? "Yeah we really came up short on this one and will be lucky if we compete head to head with Nvidias new cards"

The rep could've said "those numbers are wrong". Instead he chose the words "clearly dominated", which means they better "dominate" in a way that most people would agree is a "domination" or he and ATI will lose much cred.

And even in sanders reviews the ATI card was IMO within the neglible range of user variance and could have easily with better tweaked drivers edged out the GTX...I dont see a problem there. The marketer could be speaking as much on portential with optimizations to their new features and shaders as current state of game play.

Does ATI have much cred of recent??? I dont care for games so to me ATI/Nvidia is side entertainment, but pretty much all I see is ATI is late to the dance everytime, and press launches their cards with no stock to back it up. Had yield issues like their last die shrinkage and in return Nvidia beats them to the punch with the next generation card. Now ATI plays catchup several months later and likely several more for full availability so since it is behind and ppl have had the taste of the nvidia cards they expect much more....That may be unfair considering the specs to me seem more comparable to the current Nvidia cards. The dont apper to be the step forward but just a keep pace....

 

[StrangerGuy]

Total PR bullcrap. The whole Nvidia vs ATI war is getting more and more hilarious every passing day.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Sentential
You are giving that piece-o-crap too much credit. If you want to see the REAL reason behind that POS's action see here:
http://www.driverheaven.net/showpost.php?p=680856&postcount=17

It is odd the time stamps dont seem to make much sense...any idea as to why??? Is it do to differing timezones?? really I am asking a serious question....Why are we to belive this is true and not PR guys doing damage control with a smear tactic??? I would much rather have ATI do an official press attack on Monday and squelch things then 2 guys playing games of releasing personal emails in the forums. If they truly worked for ATI any smart company would not release this info and instead would let their lawyers use this. ATI doesn't need to have one review drop stock prices, their delays and yield problems took care of that....

 

[ZobarStyl]

Originally posted by: hidispenser
Well, at the bare minimum, dominate would mean turning in a greater score than nVidia on the majority of commonly used test programs/games. So we're not talking about a slower-than-nvidia card.
The rep could've said "those numbers are wrong". Instead he chose the words "clearly dominated", which means they better "dominate" in a way that most people would agree is a "domination" or he and ATI will lose much cred.

Good lord, people don't actually believe PR nonsense, do they? Marketing divisions aren't held to imaginary standards like "truth," you should know that by now. They aren't the slightest bit required to tell us the truth, and they lose no cred with that statement because marketing never has any cred to start. Plus, all they need is that one benchmark that makes them look better to claim "domination" (here's a hint, why do you think ATi poured massive amounts of cash into a certain Valve title?). Both companies do it, it's common knowledge. There is no 'bare minimum' for them to make any crazy claim they want; expecting otherwise is utter foolishness.

Additionally:

Originally posted by: M0RPH
I don't think their reps would be saying this stuff if they didn't have the numbers to back it up. Obviously they've done benchmarking between their new cards and the competition.

Stop posting. There's nothing obvious to anyone but fanboys like you.

 

[moonboy403]

if i'm a pr and if i open a company...
i'd say my company > all others
would that be true?!
rofl

 

[moonboy403]

i'm not really a fan of either side but get a sense of reality people (fanboys)!

 

[Corporate Thug]

ati and nvidia should start a out right war to see who dominates...............................in canada

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: ZobarStyl

Originally posted by: hidispenser
Well, at the bare minimum, dominate would mean turning in a greater score than nVidia on the majority of commonly used test programs/games. So we're not talking about a slower-than-nvidia card.
The rep could've said "those numbers are wrong". Instead he chose the words "clearly dominated", which means they better "dominate" in a way that most people would agree is a "domination" or he and ATI will lose much cred.

Good lord, people don't actually believe PR nonsense, do they? Marketing divisions aren't held to imaginary standards like "truth," you should know that by now. They aren't the slightest bit required to tell us the truth, and they lose no cred with that statement because marketing never has any cred to start. Plus, all they need is that one benchmark that makes them look better to claim "domination" (here's a hint, why do you think ATi poured massive amounts of cash into a certain Valve title?). Both companies do it, it's common knowledge. There is no 'bare minimum' for them to make any crazy claim they want; expecting otherwise is utter foolishness.

Additionally:

Originally posted by: M0RPH
I don't think their reps would be saying this stuff if they didn't have the numbers to back it up. Obviously they've done benchmarking between their new cards and the competition.

Stop posting. There's nothing obvious to anyone but fanboys like you.

:thumbsup:

I have more cred hearing someone more official from ATI deal with this or filing a suit against the guy claiming blackmail then obvious 2 guys (possibily with ATI or not) not following proper protocol in handling an issue like this...Leaking the emails that can be taken out of context, partial comments or certain things omitted, damges future claims that can be made...that would not be smart move. I have credibility issue with these pR guys and the emails as much as I do with Sanders numbers....Like an episode of desperate housewives....

 

[T9D]

Originally posted by: Genx87
In other news the Nvidia rep said he is a liar.

lol

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: ZobarStyl

Originally posted by: hidispenser
Well, at the bare minimum, dominate would mean turning in a greater score than nVidia on the majority of commonly used test programs/games. So we're not talking about a slower-than-nvidia card.
The rep could've said "those numbers are wrong". Instead he chose the words "clearly dominated", which means they better "dominate" in a way that most people would agree is a "domination" or he and ATI will lose much cred.

Good lord, people don't actually believe PR nonsense, do they? Marketing divisions aren't held to imaginary standards like "truth," you should know that by now. They aren't the slightest bit required to tell us the truth, and they lose no cred with that statement because marketing never has any cred to start. Plus, all they need is that one benchmark that makes them look better to claim "domination" (here's a hint, why do you think ATi poured massive amounts of cash into a certain Valve title?). Both companies do it, it's common knowledge. There is no 'bare minimum' for them to make any crazy claim they want; expecting otherwise is utter foolishness.

Additionally:

Originally posted by: M0RPH
I don't think their reps would be saying this stuff if they didn't have the numbers to back it up. Obviously they've done benchmarking between their new cards and the competition.

Stop posting. There's nothing obvious to anyone but fanboys like you.

:thumbsup:

I have more cred hearing someone more official from ATI deal with this or filing a suit against the guy claiming blackmail then obvious 2 guys (possibily with ATI or not) not following proper protocol in handling an issue like this...Leaking the emails that can be taken out of context, partial comments or certain things omitted, damges future claims that can be made...that would not be smart move. I have credibility issue with these pR guys and the emails as much as I do with Sanders numbers....Like an episode of desperate housewives....

in other words you are anti-ati . . . your bias clearly shows
:thumbsdown:

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Blastman
Some better news ...

rage3d

By now everyone should have seen the benchmarks scores of the R520 over at Hardware Analysis. The article has certainly stirred up a lot of controversy over many different issues. I've discussed the article with an ATI rep whom has told me the following:

• Sander?s benchmarks do not reflect ATI R520 hardware, nor do they reflect the performance of products currently being evaluated by partners.
• The real performance of R520 clearly dominates the fastest competitive hardware
• Sander never tested a board
• Sander used ?custom benchmarks? so he?d have an excuse later for his mistakes (his numbers fall far outside the range of what is reasonable for those games in any custom benchmark)

The last two points are moot as the article states the fact though we have no idea about the timedemos used. Clearly ATI believes in their products performance and states the opposite of what the article suggested. All this of course will be cleared when actual product reviews come out.

Things should get interesting in a few weeks. :beer:

heh show me one company that DOESN'T believe in their products. this is a pointless slagging match. 2 sides, all mouth and no trousers. i agree with apoppin

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: moonboy403
if i'm a pr and if i open a company...
i'd say my company > all others
would that be true?!
rofl

u wouldnt/ shouldnt be in business if you thought otherwise. every owner of a company is in business becasue he believe he has something to offer, and that something destroys the opposition. at least thats the front hes gonna put on regardless of performance

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Blastman
Well, the guy sounds pretty confident ATI is going to have a good product, rather than a 16 pipe ?turd? as some people are apt to think. :disgust:

Just from Sanders benches, it shows a strong showing for a 16 pipe card. There is no question it is impressive. The "turd" reference is not about the performance, but how tweaked this card has to be to get it there. This is just my opinion Blastman. If I were to purchase the top end R520, I would always feel my card is struggling and damn near meltdown at all times during games. It would feel like a band-aid card to me. Again, just my opinion.

The ATI rep would most likely be fired if he did not sound confident when addressing the public. So of course, he has to have food on his table and a roof over his head. This is true with any company and their PR reps.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Blastman
Well, the guy sounds pretty confident ATI is going to have a good product, rather than a 16 pipe ?turd? as some people are apt to think. :disgust:

Just from Sanders benches, it shows a strong showing for a 16 pipe card. There is no question it is impressive. The "turd" reference is not about the performance, but how tweaked this card has to be to get it there. This is just my opinion Blastman. If I were to purchase the top end R520, I would always feel my card is struggling and damn near meltdown at all times during games. It would feel like a band-aid card to me. Again, just my opinion.

The ATI rep would most likely be fired if he did not sound confident when addressing the public. So of course, he has to have food on his table and a roof over his head. This is true with any company and their PR reps.

You just can't seem to get it through your thick skull that the number of pipelines isn't everything. There's a lot of other things to consider like the efficiency of those pipelines, for one. I'm so tired of you people droning on about how R520 can't possibly be any good because it only has 16 pipelines. Wait until the real perfromance numbers come out and then you can watch your little misconceived notion go *poof* into thin air.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Blastman
Well, the guy sounds pretty confident ATI is going to have a good product, rather than a 16 pipe ?turd? as some people are apt to think. :disgust:

Just from Sanders benches, it shows a strong showing for a 16 pipe card. There is no question it is impressive. The "turd" reference is not about the performance, but how tweaked this card has to be to get it there. This is just my opinion Blastman. If I were to purchase the top end R520, I would always feel my card is struggling and damn near meltdown at all times during games. It would feel like a band-aid card to me. Again, just my opinion.

The ATI rep would most likely be fired if he did not sound confident when addressing the public. So of course, he has to have food on his table and a roof over his head. This is true with any company and their PR reps.

You just can't seem to get it through your thick skull that the number of pipelines isn't everything. There's a lot of other things to consider like the efficiency of those pipelines, for one. I'm so tired of you people droning on about how R520 can't possibly be any good because it only has 16 pipelines. Wait until the real perfromance numbers come out and then you can watch your little misconceived notion go *poof* into thin air.

Run the X1800XT at 500/1200 and then preach that pipelines don't matter to somebody else. Cause this AT'er aint buyin it. Or, run the 7800GTX at 600/1400. Any fool can see what would go down. And, I never said the R520 won't be good at 16 pipelines. Just not the best. Even ATI said it would be "competitive" and we all know that means, comparable in performance with its competition. Now go take your nasty a$$ elsewhere until you can return and have a civilized conversation without insulting someone's skull.

You have a right to your opinion as I do. Just don't crap on mine because you see things "differently".

EDIT: changed clock speed from 430 to 500 as everyone says certain parts of the 7800GTX clock up to 500 when 3Dapps are run.