R500 to be ready at end of Q1 2005

[apoppin]

THE NEXT GENERATION Xbox chip will be ready as soon as the end of the first quarter of next year

This chip comes as a derivatove of the R520 chip better known under its code name Fudo and will be of a similar architecture to the upcoming desktop chip. The only main difference will be an integrated frame buffer that you don?t see that often on desktop cards.

At this time, sources said the Xbox 2 development kit includes a 9800XT card and platform and you can only achieve five to 10 FPS with Xbox 2 working titles.

That?s why a full developer's kit will be available in late Q1 2005. This kit will include the flagship R500 chip that will give the right measure of graphics performance.

From an architectural point of view, we are talking about at least 16 pipelines powered by two TMUs (Texture Memory Units) which roughly give you twice as much power as the current X800 generation of cards that have only one TMU. This will occur only in multitexture games but nowadays all games use more then one texture per pass.

If Xbox games works at 60 FPS you can imagine that R500 will end up more then six times faster then Radeon 9800. R500 looks like a heck of a good chip to me so does Fudo - R520 I guess.

Something to look forward to - those of us skipping the 6800/x800s.
:roll:

EDIT: check out my latest post's edit re: SLI and r 480!!!

 

[Falloutboy]

Originally posted by: apoppin
THE NEXT GENERATION Xbox chip will be ready as soon as the end of the first quarter of next year

This chip comes as a derivatove of the R520 chip better known under its code name Fudo and will be of a similar architecture to the upcoming desktop chip. The only main difference will be an integrated frame buffer that you don?t see that often on desktop cards.

At this time, sources said the Xbox 2 development kit includes a 9800XT card and platform and you can only achieve five to 10 FPS with Xbox 2 working titles.

That?s why a full developer's kit will be available in late Q1 2005. This kit will include the flagship R500 chip that will give the right measure of graphics performance.

From an architectural point of view, we are talking about at least 16 pipelines powered by two TMUs (Texture Memory Units) which roughly give you twice as much power as the current X800 generation of cards that have only one TMU. This will occur only in multitexture games but nowadays all games use more then one texture per pass.

If Xbox games works at 60 FPS you can imagine that R500 will end up more then six times faster then Radeon 9800. R500 looks like a heck of a good chip to me so does Fudo - R520 I guess.

Something to look forward to - those of us skipping the 6800/x800s.
:roll:

sounds ok I guess....just hope its clock speed is at least 50 % faster because I doubt that extra TMU get more than 10-20% performance gain clock for clock on a x800

 

[Gamingphreek]

Ah the Inquirer. Nice post and all but Inquirer tends to not be completely truthful and accurate. Also... 6x the performance is theoretical. As for a 9800XT running Xbox 2 titles.... well i would like to know how a 9800XT and those games met in the first place.

-Kevin

 

[gururu]

the inquirer is hot today. they are also saying that the 6800U is smoking the x800xt in 3dmark05.

 

[Rage187]

I think they just make up sh1t so they can get hits on their website, go figure.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rage187
I think they just make up sh1t so they can get hits on their website, go figure.

The Inquirer has been the ONLY source of reliable pre-info on the 6800/x800 for about a year now . . . you are living in the past.

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ah the Inquirer. Nice post and all but Inquirer tends to not be completely truthful and accurate. Also... 6x the performance is theoretical. As for a 9800XT running Xbox 2 titles.... well i would like to know how a 9800XT and those games met in the first place.

How? the 9800xt is part of the DEVELOPMENT kit for X-box II (you realize that game programmers have to get "ready" a couple of years before the X-box II Hardware is released?!)
:roll:

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: gururu
the inquirer is hot today. they are also saying that the 6800U is smoking the x800xt in 3dmark05.

Yeah, but later they mention that with Catalyst 4.10 drivers, ATI gets 5800 marks vs. 5000 for 6800ultra and eve 9600xt beats 5950 ultra since it has faster PS2.0 shaders.

Appopin, I think the R520 will offer 30-40% max improvement over X800 series and no more since not a lot of time has passed. I believe that videocards double their performance roughly 1.5-2 years. Since there hasnt been a lot of sales in terms of the newest generation of cards, introducing a card a lot faster will cannibalize the sales of the existing X800 series of cards. Perhaps R520 will have PS3.0 though. This should make things very interesting. I doubt the increase in clock speed will be much past 600/1300 and 16x2.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Appopin, I think the R520 will offer 30-40% max improvement over X800 series and no more since not a lot of time has passed. I believe that videocards double their performance roughly 1.5-2 years. Since there hasnt been a lot of sales in terms of the newest generation of cards, introducing a card a lot faster will cannibalize the sales of the existing X800 series of cards. Perhaps R520 will have PS3.0 though. This should make things very interesting. I doubt the increase in clock speed will be much past 600/1300 and 16x2.

We simply don't know.

Competition between ATI and nVidia has heated up so much, i believe neither company will hold anything back.

X-Box II is gonna be the dominant console from '06-'09 (or so M$ 'expects') - it has to be pretty "special".

R520 IS going to have PS 3.0 - guaranteed (it is a "spec' for r500 in the next x-box).


r520 Everything we "know" is summarized here (and it aint 'much' - yet) But - imo - this r520/nV50 is gonna SMOKE the current flagship GPUs (6800/x800) :shocked:

 

[Keysplayr]

Yeah, I'm so looking forward to another round of this BS. Limited, if any, quantities of running on the seat of their pants technology. Nvidia will announce their NV50 as well. Will we see any after its launched? Not a friggin chance. It's going to be the same fiasco all over again.

New tech is nice and everything, and the R500 will probably be a great GPU. But don't count on ever seeing them when we're supposed to. /disgusted.

 

[fsstrike]

The r420 and nv40 just came out and still arnt even that common, and theres already talk of a r500 chip? wow.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: fsstrike
The r420 and nv40 just came out and still arnt even that common, and theres already talk of a r500 chip? wow.

R420 was just a revision of r350 so ATi was able to finish it quickly and start working on a chip from scratch

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Yeah, I'm so looking forward to another round of this BS. Limited, if any, quantities of running on the seat of their pants technology. Nvidia will announce their NV50 as well. Will we see any after its launched? Not a friggin chance. It's going to be the same fiasco all over again.

New tech is nice and everything, and the R500 will probably be a great GPU. But don't count on ever seeing them when we're supposed to. /disgusted.

Well, it will be a 90 nm process. I imagine Intel and AMD have it "down" now and by next year so will the other chip makers.

Since we now have "history" of both companies paperlaunching, do NOT "plan" on getting one right away - kinda silly (really) since you have to pay such a high premium simply to be among the "first" .
:roll:

But it is better to know what is coming rather than to not know.
(i am making "plans" now)
:roll:

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Yeah, I'm so looking forward to another round of this BS. Limited, if any, quantities of running on the seat of their pants technology. Nvidia will announce their NV50 as well. Will we see any after its launched? Not a friggin chance. It's going to be the same fiasco all over again.

New tech is nice and everything, and the R500 will probably be a great GPU. But don't count on ever seeing them when we're supposed to. /disgusted.

Well, it will be a 90 nm process. I imagine Intel and AMD have it "down" now and by next year so will the other chip makers.

Since we now have "history" of both companies paperlaunching, do NOT "plan" on getting one right away - kinda silly (really) since you have to pay such a high premium simply to be among the "first" .
:roll:

But it is better to know what is coming rather than to not know.
(i am making "plans" now)
:roll:

LOL! Well, best of luck to you. I'm sure it will be one helluva monster whenever it does become tangible.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Yeah, I'm so looking forward to another round of this BS. Limited, if any, quantities of running on the seat of their pants technology. Nvidia will announce their NV50 as well. Will we see any after its launched? Not a friggin chance. It's going to be the same fiasco all over again.

New tech is nice and everything, and the R500 will probably be a great GPU. But don't count on ever seeing them when we're supposed to. /disgusted.

Well, it will be a 90 nm process. I imagine Intel and AMD have it "down" now and by next year so will the other chip makers.

Since we now have "history" of both companies paperlaunching, do NOT "plan" on getting one right away - kinda silly (really) since you have to pay such a high premium simply to be among the "first" .
:roll:

But it is better to know what is coming rather than to not know.
(i am making "plans" now)
:roll:

LOL! Well, best of luck to you. I'm sure it will be one helluva monster whenever it does become tangible.

i was being a wee bit cynical. . . . I ALREADY (had) planned for a 6800U (this year). . . . my case has a - new since May - 480w Thermaltake.
:shocked:

After THREE aborted preorders/orders, i came to my senses (of course in the meantime i did my research and found out the r500/520 was the GPU i really wanted for '05 - NOT the nv45) and got a cheap ($223) 9800XT to "tide me over".

I will probably pick up a (cheap) 6800GT (or even 2 for sli - eventually) when the r520/nv50 comes out.

 

[Keysplayr]

Very, very good deal on the 9800XT!!

 

[Genx87]

The specs leaked from Microsoft for the GPU resembled a souped up R360 with SM3 support than a 16 pipeline beast. I am interested in seeing how Microsoft thinks they will beable to sell xbox 2 with an R500 in it at a price we can consider reasonable.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: Genx87
The specs leaked from Microsoft for the GPU resembled a souped up R360 with SM3 support than a 16 pipeline beast. I am interested in seeing how Microsoft thinks they will beable to sell xbox 2 with an R500 in it at a price we can consider reasonable.

I think the money is in the games, but I could be wrong. Like my last cheap printer, only cost $30 a month or so for ink.

 

[Reliant1]

Originally posted by: Genx87
The specs leaked from Microsoft for the GPU resembled a souped up R360 with SM3 support than a 16 pipeline beast. I am interested in seeing how Microsoft thinks they will beable to sell xbox 2 with an R500 in it at a price we can consider reasonable.

They sell the box usually for a loss and make money off licensing games. Plus in the volumes Microsoft purchases the chips they get a great discount

 

[Killrose]

Whoohoo!! cheap used 6800GT's and X800pro's....all I can really afford

 

[darkswordsman17]

For the Xbox2, what MS has done to lower costs is have people like ATi design the chips, but then MS takes the design and has another company actually manufacture them (same thing that nVidia/ATi do) and thus it cuts MS reliance on the design company (remember how nVidia and MS fought over what the price of the components should cost?). I'm not sure if what I said makes total sense, but I tried to make it.

This still wouldn't make the Xbox 2 cheap enough in parts for MS to break even on every box, which they're not exactly aiming to once again. They want to make what they put in it to be powerful enough to outshine any other console in graphical prowess, giving them the marketing edge in that department. Then what they do is make their money back on licensing and software sales.

I think MS is also banking on broadband becoming so prevalent that Xbox Live will finally start to really shine, and it will do more than just connect people between games. They will use it so that people can video chat and other things as well, basically making an Xbox the central hub to both your entertainment and digital social life. Also, I think MS might be going to start turning Live into a means of renting games and/or other entertainment (movies, music). Think if instead of running to blockbuster, you can just hop online and have the Xbox download a movie for you. Or buy and download music through it. Maybe this all is just wishful thinking, but MS definitely has the means to do this, if they choose to.

 

[ZobarStyl]

Man a processor no one's ever seen in a console built by Microsoft...anyone who expects this before Christmas 2006 and costing less than 500 bucks is gonna be disappointed methinks...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

I think MS is also banking on broadband becoming so prevalent that Xbox Live will finally start to really shine, and it will do more than just connect people between games. They will use it so that people can video chat and other things as well, basically making an Xbox the central hub to both your entertainment and digital social life. Also, I think MS might be going to start turning Live into a means of renting games and/or other entertainment (movies, music). Think if instead of running to blockbuster, you can just hop online and have the Xbox download a movie for you. Or buy and download music through it. Maybe this all is just wishful thinking, but MS definitely has the means to do this, if they choose to.

Xbox 2 is a Windows lovechild

MICROSOFT HAS now confirmed that its Xbox 2 peripherals will be compatible with the PC, and that PC gamers will, come Longhorn, be able to game on Xbox live against Xbox 2 owners.

. . . .

Xbox live gameplay will be enabled by the XNA cross-platform development technology that Microsoft has been busy beaverying away at. It is hoping that by making Xbox 2 and PC development very similar, it can leverage its PC dominance to gain share in the console market.

At the moment, the Xbox 2 is due to premiere some time in 2005 - a full year ahead of Longhorn, and before the Windows Graphics Foundation platform is in full swing on the PC side of things. Traditionally, consoles have lagged behind PC technology. Could the delays to Longhorn from Microsoft mean that the Xbox 2, coupled with XNA and WGF, becomes a technically more advanced platform than the PC for the next year? That would certainly be a coup for the console sector, as well as for ATI, whose graphics power the Xbox 2

Thought you'd like to hear M$' plans.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: fsstrike
The r420 and nv40 just came out and still arnt even that common, and theres already talk of a r500 chip? wow.

R420 was just a revision of r350 so ATi was able to finish it quickly and start working on a chip from scratch

Umm R500 has been in development since early '02... NV50 was mid '02.

 

[BFG10K]

This will occur only in multitexture games but nowadays all games use more then one texture per pass.

Not really. In fact static multitexturing is going the way of the Dodo and is being replaced by shaders. Adding a second TMU to that card isn't terribly exciting at all and in fact could be quite useless.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: fsstrike
The r420 and nv40 just came out and still arnt even that common, and theres already talk of a r500 chip? wow.

R420 was just a revision of r350 so ATi was able to finish it quickly and start working on a chip from scratch

Umm R500 has been in development since early '02... NV50 was mid '02.

Maybe even earlier . . . R500/520 is based on the cancelled r400.


ATI R400 GPU Cancelled From just over a year ago:

Earlier this year we reported that ATI would be releasing both R400 and R500 GPUs over the course of the next two years. GPU news wire Not For Idiots now confirms this past weekend that ATI has actually "cancelled" the R400 since then, and will instead revamp it as their new R500 GPU:

"The R500 "is" the R400, which was cancelled early this year. There are many reasons to this, among which the fact that ATI didn't feel they could deliver the R400 in the required timeframe, which is Q1 2004 ( it seems the August 2003 timeframe was either BS, or that it had already been delayed a bit before getting cancelled. ) The R500, thus made by the same team which worked on the R400, might of course have more features than the original R400 design had, because, well, it'll only be launched in Q4 2004, best case scenario."

At the time it was expected that the R400 would herald the GPU designer's move to the advanced 0.13-micron production process, while the R500 marked the move to 90 nanometers. Both were to feature support for the new PCI Express device connection standard.