quick question about GPA on resume

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Everything that's real-world and not a part of your study is irrelevant. That's amusing. There's no point in arguing with you. If a hiring manager in Arizona looking for fashion design majors cares about GPA, and thus it affects your survey, I don't really care. I got a good job right out of college without it, so I stand by my opinion.

And whether the hiring manager looks at it or not, GPA is a very poor tool for judging talent, so those "70%" are only hurting themselves. Oh well.

No, everything that is anecdotal is irrelevant when being applied generally. You must not understand that you are applying a general statement toward the whole populous based of your own personal experience when stating 'GPA does not matter.' That is what I am arguing against. To the general populous, GPA does matter.

I'm glad you we offered a good job. Your internship experience probably played a huge role in that. However, not everyone has internship experience, or much prior work experience, and GPA is one of the only ways to determine their willingness to work and ability. GPA is not a main factor in the hiring process, but it most certainly does matter.

 

[Deeko]

Great. And I'm sorry for those companies, maybe they need some better HR people.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: residualsquare
A 3.0/3.1 GPA is a pretty deep hole to dig out of- how did you let that happen?

Meh, I guess were not all super geniuses here. Personally I have a 2.9 GPA, and that above average at my college, so how incredible can people be expecting, if they all want 3.5s then they eliminate 80% of applicants on the spot.

Genius <> GPA. Dedication is. Another thing that really sucks is some have the dedication, but when you are competeing with someone that has all their bills paid vs you that need to get 20 hours a week to be about to just eat it's an uneven playing field.

 

[ed21x]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: Deeko
I can go by some survey from 2 years ago that I've never heard of, or my own personal experience from 3 months ago. If you want me to qualify, then fine...."if you are graduating with a degree in computer science in the philadelphia region in 2007 with internships and project experience, smaller local companies and larger national companies alike won't care about your GPA, and won't even ask what it is if you don't list it. In fact, the few that do will still give you job offers".

Is that more accurate for you?

I love it when people say that they can go by personal experience. Do you really think your personal experience encompasses the vast majority of hiring managers the nation, or even a small percent? Does it even cover job areas outside of your own? This survey does. I'm sorry you haven't heard of it. I have, and so have most people in HR.

We control a C$40B portfolio and give out C$4B yearly to school boards. Ask me when is the last time we look at the GPA of anyone we hired.

Anecdotal, thus irrelevant.

Edit: I can name 10 companies that have a required GPA for new hires. I can name 10 companies that prefer a listed GPA for new hires. And, I can name 10 companies that do not require GPA at all. The point is, in the end, more companies require/prefer than do not.

False. Listing your GPA just makes the entire Resume look newbish. Kind of like a highschooler bragging about his/her GPA. After 2 years of work experience, it is time to leave it off unless you always want to be looked upon as entry-level. My frame of reference is J&J, but I'm sure other people from large companies will verify it with me.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: ed21x

False. Listing your GPA just makes the entire Resume look newbish. Kind of like a highschooler bragging about his/her GPA. After 2 years of work experience, it is time to leave it off unless you always want to be looked upon as entry-level. My frame of reference is J&J, but I'm sure other people from large companies will verify it with me.

Um, a little late to the game, and without much reading comprehension. I've been talking about new college graduates.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: Deeko
I can go by some survey from 2 years ago that I've never heard of, or my own personal experience from 3 months ago. If you want me to qualify, then fine...."if you are graduating with a degree in computer science in the philadelphia region in 2007 with internships and project experience, smaller local companies and larger national companies alike won't care about your GPA, and won't even ask what it is if you don't list it. In fact, the few that do will still give you job offers".

Is that more accurate for you?

I love it when people say that they can go by personal experience. Do you really think your personal experience encompasses the vast majority of hiring managers the nation, or even a small percent? Does it even cover job areas outside of your own? This survey does. I'm sorry you haven't heard of it. I have, and so have most people in HR.

We control a C$40B portfolio and give out C$4B yearly to school boards. Ask me when is the last time we look at the GPA of anyone we hired.

Anecdotal, thus irrelevant.

Edit: I can name 10 companies that have a required GPA for new hires. I can name 10 companies that prefer a listed GPA for new hires. And, I can name 10 companies that do not require GPA at all. The point is, in the end, more companies require/prefer than do not.

Survey result is a collection of anecdotal responses, nes pas?

 

[magomago]

I have my cumulative GPA listed (which is pretty good), and my engineering GPA listed. The main reason I have two, is that my first year i didn't care about school too much so my cum. GPa was kind of in the shitter. Second year I learned how to study again - so my cum GPa went up ~ but i also started my engineering classes so my engineering GPA is substantially higher

i would have no idea how to calculate major GPA as i don't want to sit there and weigh all my classes - too annoying, and considering i messed up in classes like physics my first year i wouldn't want it to make my gpa in the school of engineering look bad (physics, math, chem is taken in the school of physical sciences...i'd probably have no problem with it now, but back the :x thank god lawl!)


For those who COMPLETELY dismiss GPA....maybe if you are 5 years out of school. But when you deal with recent grads - GPA is one of the main indications you have to assess a student! Sure we can have internships that used flowered words to describe what we accomplished (saying "tested sh|t alll day long" vs crap like "assess product response for quality control" doesn't change the fact that the job needed no engineering degree at all~ just someone to train), or we can do really nice research with a professor (too bad academic research and industrial technology often have different claims)

but aside from meeting us and seeing how we act, and if we seem responsible - GPA is a huge point from what information can be taken out of.

Talk about how hard working of a person you are, and how you want to do well...but why was that not reflected in a GPA? Because you didn't like to study or read or write? Talk about pushing aside important skills (note: i'm not saying other skills are not important...i think tasks like public speaking and social interaction are just as important).
But now you say "you have to have a desire to work HARD - work and school are different". I agree they are different - but now you want a company to take a risk on you...and companies are not always willing to do that


for someone out of school even 2 years, I see no reason to put a GPA on the resume
but for someone who is fresh out of college - if you have a high GPA you should put it on your resume because that glance at a GPA may say "bring them in to chat"...and then the rest of it from there boils down to your ability to chat and convince them you are worth it

and to argue that for fresh graduates, listing a high GPA vs no gpa doesn't matter, is almost ridiculous...because it can help in determining who gets an interview and who doesn't

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: ed21x

False. Listing your GPA just makes the entire Resume look newbish. Kind of like a highschooler bragging about his/her GPA. After 2 years of work experience, it is time to leave it off unless you always want to be looked upon as entry-level. My frame of reference is J&J, but I'm sure other people from large companies will verify it with me.

To the quote above the one I just quoted: damn I hate ancedotal...it's like ergo when the Matrix came out.

ed21x is right. Putting GPA and no experience is putting yourself in the worst position for a job.

If you can brag graduateing with honors from MIT/Harvard it's a different matter. No one would say that is not impressive. However, listing ANYTHING under a 4.0 to the average college is just showing your lack of potential esp when you weren't working.

Get a job/intern with the career path you want preferably with the place you'd like to work at post graduation (word of advice though, ask about how your salary will be affected should they elect to hire you on full-time after graduation....some places will try to get you for nothing by stating they can only give you x amount of a raise due to company policy).

When we hire here we all round table the resumes, people that have been out of college still put their GPA down, still list their High school and still put EVERY FREAKING job they held since 12 years old. Don't be that guy, unless you like being laughed about. Hell we may even interview you just to get an additional chuckle.

 

[Deeko]

Ever used the Penny Arcade at Commerce Bank? Yea, I wrote that.

That was my resume, word for word. Those two sentences on 2 sheets of paper. I'm now the CEO of Google.

beat that, and I did it with a 1.85 GPA. My school doesn't even let you graduate without a 2.0, but they made an exception cuz they were in awe of me.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Ever used the Penny Arcade at Commerce Bank? Yea, I wrote that.

That was my resume, word for word. Those two sentences on 2 sheets of paper. I'm now the CEO of Google.

beat that, and I did it with a 1.85 GPA. My school doesn't even let you graduate without a 2.0, but they made an exception cuz they were in awe of me.

Are you Larry Page or Eric Schmidt?

 

[Deeko]

Both :Q

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: ed21x

False. Listing your GPA just makes the entire Resume look newbish. Kind of like a highschooler bragging about his/her GPA. After 2 years of work experience, it is time to leave it off unless you always want to be looked upon as entry-level. My frame of reference is J&J, but I'm sure other people from large companies will verify it with me.

To the quote above the one I just quoted: damn I hate ancedotal...it's like ergo when the Matrix came out.

ed21x is right. Putting GPA and no experience is putting yourself in the worst position for a job.

If you can brag graduateing with honors from MIT/Harvard it's a different matter. No one would say that is not impressive. However, listing ANYTHING under a 4.0 to the average college is just showing your lack of potential esp when you weren't working.

Get a job/intern with the career path you want preferably with the place you'd like to work at post graduation (word of advice though, ask about how your salary will be affected should they elect to hire you on full-time after graduation....some places will try to get you for nothing by stating they can only give you x amount of a raise due to company policy).

When we hire here we all round table the resumes, people that have been out of college still put their GPA down, still list their High school and still put EVERY FREAKING job they held since 12 years old. Don't be that guy, unless you like being laughed about. Hell we may even interview you just to get an additional chuckle.

hehehe yeah thati s wrong for sure

i got to look at some resumes for a job that i wasn't supposed to look at...it was sooo amazing to see what people actually wrote down. i actually spend a lot of time reading and learning how to write a resume so i have an idea of what it should look like.
but some of them were 15 page monstrosities that talked about their health ("I haven't missed a day of work since 1976, and that was due to pneumonia that went around my office and infected all of us, and even then i took work home with me!) to listing who they met ("I've shaken hands with 5 presidents, and met with Elton John backstage") and were not even grammatically correct xD

realistically only stick with what is relevant. I want a job in the industry after i graduate so i got rid of my research experience in favor of putting down more internships...unless its a rare situation - entry level should never exceed one page~

btw on the bolded...do you mean 3.0? GEEZ ANYTHING LESS THAN A 4.0?!?!?! Are you on drugs!?!?!? Do you know how fvcking hard that is to maintain a straight 4.0~ even my 3.95 friends who do nothing but study all day long still get two A-s and one B+ can't hit a 4.0.

Stating 4.0 is really extreme for engineers - maybe its a different field if you are doing social sciences (which i'm not familiar with) but to demand a 4.0 for an engineer, scientist, or CS person is near crazy talk.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: magomago
I have my cumulative GPA listed (which is pretty good), and my engineering GPA listed. The main reason I have two, is that my first year i didn't care about school too much so my cum. GPa was kind of in the shitter. Second year I learned how to study again - so my cum GPa went up ~ but i also started my engineering classes so my engineering GPA is substantially higher

i would have no idea how to calculate major GPA as i don't want to sit there and weigh all my classes - too annoying, and considering i messed up in classes like physics my first year i wouldn't want it to make my gpa in the school of engineering look bad (physics, math, chem is taken in the school of physical sciences...i'd probably have no problem with it now, but back the :x thank god lawl!)


For those who COMPLETELY dismiss GPA....maybe if you are 5 years out of school. But when you deal with recent grads - GPA is one of the main indications you have to assess a student! Sure we can have internships that used flowered words to describe what we accomplished (saying "tested sh|t alll day long" vs crap like "assess product response for quality control" doesn't change the fact that the job needed no engineering degree at all~ just someone to train), or we can do really nice research with a professor (too bad academic research and industrial technology often have different claims)

but aside from meeting us and seeing how we act, and if we seem responsible - GPA is a huge point from what information can be taken out of.

Talk about how hard working of a person you are, and how you want to do well...but why was that not reflected in a GPA? Because you didn't like to study or read or write? Talk about pushing aside important skills (note: i'm not saying other skills are not important...i think tasks like public speaking and social interaction are just as important).
But now you say "you have to have a desire to work HARD - work and school are different". I agree they are different - but now you want a company to take a risk on you...and companies are not always willing to do that


for someone out of school even 2 years, I see no reason to put a GPA on the resume
but for someone who is fresh out of college - if you have a high GPA you should put it on your resume because that glance at a GPA may say "bring them in to chat"...and then the rest of it from there boils down to your ability to chat and convince them you are worth it

and to argue that for fresh graduates, listing a high GPA vs no gpa doesn't matter, is almost ridiculous...because it can help in determining who gets an interview and who doesn't

When I hire new grad, I am not interested in their GPA. I want to know how they work and communicate. If the intro letter is poor, it gets tossed. If you came across as honest and willing to learn, I'll give you a chance to convince me you are the right person.

 

[wiredspider]

I'm going to be a new grad this spring and I guess I'm suppose to be seeking a real job now. As a college student, I think the employers are going to be looking for GPA on our resumes, leaving it off might lead them to believe it was like really low.
Anyhow my cum is 2.96/4 and my major is 3.23/4, which really sucks because it's only that low due to an F because I missed a final. I also worked full time since sophomore year too.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: sdifox
When I hire new grad, I am not interested in their GPA. I want to know how they work and communicate. If the intro letter is poor, it gets tossed. If you came across as honest and willing to learn, I'll give you a chance to convince me you are the right person.

What are you going to do in a situation where you have many students who

a) have a 1-2 short paragraph cover letter who demonstrated they at least went online and found some info about your company- basically a step above the rest who talk about how much they want to work for said company, even though they don't know anything about them.

b) have nicely done resumes (doesn't have to be a certain style - can be many different styles that are nicely done)

c) have some kind of experience (not necessarily the same field)


would you choose to interview students who won't list their GPA vs those who list a GPA of over 3.4,5,6? From that, I would think that while you will always check out the experience, you will tend to pick out students who have a GPA listed. It shows they either studied more, or they pick the stuff up faster (barring someone with a horrible GPA who has incredible experience...then I can see why you would take them in)

Or will you tell me that you will interview...EVERYONE? Or am I being way to hypothetical and no one has A, B, and C?

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: wiredspider
I'm going to be a new grad this spring and I guess I'm suppose to be seeking a real job now. As a college student, I think the employers are going to be looking for GPA on our resumes, leaving it off might lead them to believe it was like really low.
Anyhow my cum is 2.96/4 and my major is 3.23/4, which really sucks because it's only that low due to an F because I missed a final. I also worked full time since sophomore year too.

I'd put both GPAs on there...both cumulative and your ICS gpa. and the recruitors will notice if you worked fulltime (lets hope it wasn't "starbucks cashier" for 3 years...) Just make sure it is clear that you were working fulltime~ my guess is you would not have "intern" or any such associated title with a fulltime job

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

GPA really didn't matter for me at all. I don't even know if I put it on my resume. I'm getting paid $70k/yr with great benefits and profit sharing. If you're smart, you'll find work.

 

[torpid]

It doesn't matter whether GPA is important, it still looks dumb on a resume to me. As Pizza suggested, just put any scholastic accolades on the resume. If they care about your GPA, they will ask.

 

[imported_stev]

Thread summary:

GPAs are worthless:
Translation: "I was bad at some or all of college, I had way too many other things going, or I just didn't care enough to make my GPA high. Now, I feel incredible power when I throw out resumes with a GPA on it."

GPAs are essential:
Translation: "I worked my ass off in school to get a high GPA (and *gasp* to learn things), but my experience is severely lacking so I'm clinging to the GPA like a life raft as a float out into the vast ocean of the career world! Even when I get that kick-ass job, I'm still going to whip out my hawt GPA any chance I get."

My undergrad and grad GPAs are around 3.5-3.6. I only held a small part-time job in undergrad and then my research assistantship in grad (sciences field). Along with that I did a couple undergrad internships. So, I'm academics-rich and experience-poor, that's just how it is. However, those GPAs help convey my ability to understand the science fundamentals. My thesis and other reports show that I can write (not that anyone will read them, but they know I had to do them). Interviewing me shows that I can be a personable and reasonable human being. The GPA tells part of the story for me so I'll obviously put it on a resume. If it's not for you, don't put it!

 

[MaxDepth]

If you are a woman, I'd rather see your measurements.

 

[skim milk]

My simple question turned into a full blown out debate and I'm totally lost. I'm more confused than before I started this thread

 

[rchiu]

Heh, good luck trying to find jobs in top companies out of school, (not talking about your mom and pop shops, companies like big 4 consulting, McKinsey, Goldman Sacks.....etc) without good GPA. But for your regular fortune 500 companies, you maybe able to get by depending on the positions. Good GPA will never hurt, put it on your resume. Don't have a good one, put the best out of your major, core, cumulative GPA and focus your resume on something that you are good at that companies is gonna value. GPA is not the only thing, but for first job out of school and if you don't have lots of internship/relevant experience, that's pretty much the only thing differentiates you from thousands of other resumes companies have to go through.

 

[imported_stev]

OP: Just use your own judgement. People have applied for and gotten jobs long before internet forums were invented. If you want yet another opinion, I put cumulative GPA for each of my degrees on my resume and that's it. After my first job, it will probably be gone from the resume. Also, I never talk about GPA in any cover letters I've written. I just mention my degrees and then talk about what I've done in school and research that would be relevant for the job.

 

[skim milk]

I think I'll just list them all so that I'm not being deceptive in any way
Major GPA: 3.25, Core GPA: 3.4, Cumulative: 3.1

just like that

 

[WombRaider]

Anything over 3.0 is good in my books.