Question to the 'Old Vets' on this board . . .

[OffTopic1]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: DoubleL
Well Red Dawn I was a combat soldier and I can just go by what I did and not what someone said. They had more to fight for and more to lose than we did, I trusted them with my life and they trusted me with theirs, What more can you say than that

Just another opinion from someone who was there...just like those who had an opinion differing than yours. Yours is no more valid or invalid than theirs. Maybe they had different experiences with them than you did.

Still doesn't change the fact that as soon as we left they couldn't do much of anything to stop the Advancing NVA and VC from taking other the country. Maybe it was the corrupt S.Viet Namese Politicians of maybe is was an Army whose heart wasn't in the fight anymore.

I don't know what the North had for arms, but according to my dad friend (a South colonel) and my cousins (a South lieutenant & a captain) that the South had more than enought arms to blow the North to kingdom come. However, the heart of the soldiers weren't in it because their lying/thieving leaders ran with their tails between their legs the minute they sense difficulty (the reason was because they were chosen by the US/French because they are greedy & is easy to manipulate). Second reason is that they don?t want to fight their brothers & sisters. Third reason is that they can?t fight on an empty stomach (the US weren?t footing the bills any longer).

I often heard many Viet soldiers joshing around claming that ?Thang My? are big & stupid that can?t stand the heat in Vietnam to do any fighting, but in reality I saw differ. What I saw was that the average US soldier can do about 3-4 times the work load that the average Viet can do at the Ba Ria army base across the street from my grand parents home. I can also recall seeing much more South Viet army guys drunk & hang out at café shop than the American during the war. Honestly, I can?t recall seeing an American taken bribe in the open or behind door, but I have to admit that I see all kind of level of South officials/armies/polices taken bribes (my dad bribes them many times to stay out of the army and for other favors). I?m not trying to say that only the South is corrupted, because after the war the NVA seemed to caught on with the bribes soon after they invaded the South.

Red, I have been on this board for a long time & have lots of respect for you since 97/98. I would love to have La Beer 33 with you & a designer coffee with LunarRay someday.

 

[LunarRay]

I challenge anyone to point out the VC during the 10 years of hell. I don't think anyone could, not even their own family members. They were ghosts and the Army of the South couldn't no more defeat them then we could and the South's Army knew it. That is why they abandoned the effort when we left. They lost the will to fight and die or have their families die... remember, our families were way back here and outta reach.
I don't think folks give the VC their due regarding their dedication to their objective.
Now, why were they so bitter against the government in place in the South? Were they just infiltrators from the North... No.. I don't think so.. maybe some but not many. So here they are.... patriots or terrorists depending on one's point of view. They were fighting to rid their country of not only the invaders but, also the folks they abhored... the government. They believed with their heart and soul that their nation would be better for all under the philosophy of the North.. their brothers in the North and their form of Communism. I wouldn't support communism for them or anyone but, that is or was their choice and it should have been left to them to ferret out.
Which gets back to my previous posts... Didn't we know how determined the anti government folks were in the South... and how determined the North with support from their new and historic allies would be? We had to know this and had to know what it would take to win that war. I have no doubt that we could have won.. but, it would have been at the cost of millions more lives. I have to assume we intended to escalate to the point of victory over communism... over the USSR and China on the neutral battle ground of Vietnam.. Vietnam was the place where the first battle with Russia occurred maybe with China too... a bit. Just like Afghanistan where we met the Soviets again.. and death visited Afghanistan too.
So... when you read my posts you have to see that I'm seeing a war in one place to advance a philosophy against a different place.. Vietnam or Afghanistan or where ever.. We went to war and lost and caused to be lost so many lives because the real opposition was equally as powerful and we didn't want to end earth's existence but a few million didn't matter... It does to me, though!

 

[DoubleL]

Just another opinion from someone who was there...just like those who had an opinion differing than yours. Yours is no more valid or invalid than theirs. Maybe they had different experiences with them than you did.

Still doesn't change the fact that as soon as we left they couldn't do much of anything to stop the Advancing NVA and VC from taking other the country. Maybe it was the corrupt S.Viet Namese Politicians of maybe is was an Army whose heart wasn't in the fight anymore.
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Of coruse they couldn't do much to stop the advancing north, That advance of the north was do or die. To say the South couldn't do much to stop the north maybe cause of corrupt politicians is like saying why didn't you stop them 20 men that robed you all they had was 38's, Hell you had a ballbat, So to me it looks like if you can't handdle 20 men with guns and you have a ballbat, You have a problem and needed to have eveything took from you. And for the corrupt I wish they would have showed what they did to the leaders, Soldiers anjd on and on, They had ways to kill that you wouldn't believe, My last post on this, I don't like to talk about it

 

[vanln]

To DoublL:

I salut you with all my respect, May god bless you. You are always in my hear. Anotherdays you, me in paradise.

To other:
After the country divided by two: the north and south. More than 1millions of peoples from north escaped communist regime and ran down to south . In south all the troops of Viet minh who believed
in communist move to north. Before they moved to north, communist encourage them to marry. The plan was clear, they want to build a network and base to come back. The relationship of those new
son in law could build relationship of hundred thousand civilians. And the culture of Vietnam at that time, one man one woman to the rest of their life, divorce was prohibited. The first network and
base of communist was formed. At that time civilization was simple. People like ghost story, heroic story. Especially no one have a clue what the freak is communist or capitalism. Communist polished
rhe name Ho Chi Minh like god, a hero. People respect him like other hero who fought with french. People respect but they didn't care to be an VC
The US army just like any other army in the world . Who shoot them, they shoot them back.
Accident happen all the time. Civilians died . You won't be surprice that the entire village hate US. People talk, communist make up more story. The next village also know the story
The first president Ngo dinh dien decide to separate civilians. His plan was moved all the civilians to secure area . Aways from communist to avoid accident happens. His plan was success. Communist was
struggle during his time. They must find his weakness to defeat him. Ngo dinh diem was born in a high class family, a member of loyalty consul of king. He had high education and high leadership skill . He was
former prime minister of emperer Bao Dai . His brother was a father of Catholic. They loved power more than money. If people judge them as a corruptor. You are completly wrong. They are not.
His brother Ngo dinh nhu gave to much favor to Catholic . That made Budish religion angry. Communist start using monks. We saw protestors on the street with monk. Some monks burned themself
Poeple who just moved to the new secure area want to go back to their village involve to those protestors. Stories start happens, all the bad pointing to the president. Since the president has high education
He know Vietnam don't deserve the war from communist and capitalism .
There are two 2 differences opinions for Ngo dinh Diem. Some said He star his moved to negotiate to Ho chi minh to eliminate this war for Vietnam . CIA removed him . And other opinion said
He would invade the north with his own army after asking US army leaving Vietnam. But that would lead to nuclear war. At that time President JFK was facing with Nuclear war head in cuba .
He can not afford to have any change lost Vietnam in Asia. They decision, remove him at all cost . A brave president end his life with all shame . Some Vietnamese up to now
still call him a puppet. If he accepted his life as puppet, his life can stay as long as he want
The new regime was built, people return to village. Communist was so happy, they can built network base like they want. New gorverment want to find new solution to defeat communist. They found out new base camp
evywhere. Protestors of war became VC in few month. Soldier can not kill those VC, because those new VC is the boys in town or their relative. Gorvement decided to rotate soldier. Soldier from other
provice move to new town. The gorverment success by using that technic. Thousand of VC captured by new military came from other province. Gorvement was struggle with those VC. Since we are
a democracy country we can not kill those VC or make them in prison of sentence of life. Many case Gorvement educated them and kick them out of prison. Other gorverment recruit them to join army.
Vietnamese communist start a most diry war techic in human history.
Think about some real story and who is the real criminal : US soldier or VC:
One or two VC hidden a place near by a village. Wait for airplan passed by. He shoot those plan . Air plan turn back , they ran . So air plan didn't know they ran always. They start shoot the village
The village destroyed . The same VC shoot the airplan came back next days . He help the village rebuilt and start recruit new VC member. People thought Communist is nice and American are a
bad guy, they just destroy the village . VC didn't stop there , they let Amercain news known , cried in front of camera . Send those new back to America and show those story for american protestor.
They fool every body . Like they did right now in every american politic forum.
How about another true story. They ask kid around 8, 10 years old bring bomb and kill American . Some kid may not know that is the bomp . After the kids died, they would make big story
about the kid to village people and news paper.
How about shoot down the village and told people that American did that. They did on every war.
Believe me communist very good to act . They could cry , they could act as south vietnamese force or a vietnamese american , and may be vietnamese canadian . They are good to
hide they criminal record. WHat ever you think but the root cause of all those , Viet cong did that. They played a real dirty game.
US army and south army can never play those dirties war games like VC . For those who think war with VC is an easy game. That was not. A group of communist peoples who are 100 time more intellengent and
100% more cruel than bin laden. Who saw Rambo movies, VC was easy to hunt down. But in real life , they are not.
Many Vietnamese were VC. That is not true . Most of the are Victime (lack of understanding). Democratic countries, we can not kill or put them in prison . For someone just lost their
relative, didn't matter how you proof them, their emotion won't believed you. During war no one have time and money to open trial to proof that those died cause by who for every case.
Believe me, people emotion duing war are not normal, they would kill someone with out thinking if they knew their relative got killed.
You must admire south vietnamese gorverment. With all those trouble , They still can build a south vietnam better than any country in asia. Hong kong, thailand were nothing compare to south vietnam
They could mantain a country like other democratic and we had freedom

This is the time to restore the honor back to Viet Veterian and the honor to south vietnamese force. I'm a Vietnamese , I leave and witness all those days . They were hero . Men of honor, duties
and resposibility. Viet veterian and south vietnamese force never intent to write book to tell the world about those stories. But I believe their son ( like me son of south army force) should tell
the world about their braves father. I encourage all the son of Viet Veterian should do like me . Restore the honor back to the honor men

 

[vanln]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I challenge anyone to point out the VC during the 10 years of hell. I don't think anyone could, not even their own family members. They were ghosts and the Army of the South couldn't no more defeat them then we could and the South's Army knew it. That is why they abandoned the effort when we left. They lost the will to fight and die or have their families die... remember, our families were way back here and outta reach.
I don't think folks give the VC their due regarding their dedication to their objective.
Now, why were they so bitter against the government in place in the South? Were they just infiltrators from the North... No.. I don't think so.. maybe some but not many. So here they are.... patriots or terrorists depending on one's point of view. They were fighting to rid their country of not only the invaders but, also the folks they abhored... the government. They believed with their heart and soul that their nation would be better for all under the philosophy of the North.. their brothers in the North and their form of Communism. I wouldn't support communism for them or anyone but, that is or was their choice and it should have been left to them to ferret out.
Which gets back to my previous posts... Didn't we know how determined the anti government folks were in the South... and how determined the North with support from their new and historic allies would be? We had to know this and had to know what it would take to win that war. I have no doubt that we could have won.. but, it would have been at the cost of millions more lives. I have to assume we intended to escalate to the point of victory over communism... over the USSR and China on the neutral battle ground of Vietnam.. Vietnam was the place where the first battle with Russia occurred maybe with China too... a bit. Just like Afghanistan where we met the Soviets again.. and death visited Afghanistan too.
So... when you read my posts you have to see that I'm seeing a war in one place to advance a philosophy against a different place.. Vietnam or Afghanistan or where ever.. We went to war and lost and caused to be lost so many lives because the real opposition was equally as powerful and we didn't want to end earth's existence but a few million didn't matter... It does to me, though!

Lunar Ray,

The main force of communist never exit in Vietnam. They real base camp for main force was in Laos and Cambodia. In Vietnam they use only prtestors of wars or someone lost their relative . For those people we can not capture them until they commit a crime. That is a difficult for all democratic coutries.
Like USA , protestors went to prison for 48hrs and police must release them. Polices release them and wait for them to come back to make the same trouble.
Vietnam war intention was :to stop the communist. Both parties never want to win the war. Because any party lost the war. They would use nuclear. So the war became make the enemies became poor . Who ran out money first will lost . That is the thoery for the first 10 years.
Later US found out another way to win Soviet. Break the force of communist . They want divided Asia communist and Europe communist in two differences forces. And US also want ASIA communist divided in another 2 forces. So Vietnam was the best candidate. South Vietnam must fall to communist. Believe me CIA did every think to make south VN fall as soon as possible. Like I mention, cut off supplied, capture key militairy man, discourage soldier, gave the intellegent military information to the north Vietnam. Don't you see how powerful CIA are. They can make a entire army of south vietnam fall in 3 months.
South VN didn't lost the war to north, they lost the war to CIA
Are you happy to hear the true?
Viet Vet knew that thing but they don't want to piss off their alliace meaning vietnamese americain. So they don't say a word. Vietnamese american knew that but they saw communist fall and USA support them in the new countries. That is why they don't want to talk about that. Vietnamese americain know their sacrified save billions of other lifes. So they accept their lost with happiness. They don't care what
American protest of war think. But they get mad when Communist Vietnam continue to try make them look bad . If you see around this forum, you can see some of them around. If you check more carreful the way they talk, You know what I mean. Some time they tell you they live in US or some where but WTF they post message in 3 or 5 o'clock in the morning. Some time 12: AM, 3:00AM , 5:00 AM, 1:00PM 7:00 PM, . 24 hours a days they post message. No sleep??

 

[LunarRay]

Vanln,

Lunar Ray,

The main force of communist never exit in Vietnam. They real base camp for main force was in Laos and Cambodia. In Vietnam they use only prtestors of wars or someone lost their relative . For those people we can not capture them until they commit a crime. That is a difficult for all democratic coutries.
Like USA , protestors went to prison for 48hrs and police must release them. Polices release them and wait for them to come back to make the same trouble.
Vietnam war intention was :to stop the communist. Both parties never want to win the war. Because any party lost the war. They would use nuclear. So the war became make the enemies became poor . Who ran out money first will lost . That is the thoery for the first 10 years.
Later US found out another way to win Soviet. Break the force of communist . They want divided Asia communist and Europe communist in two differences forces. And US also want ASIA communist divided in another 2 forces. So Vietnam was the best candidate. South Vietnam must fall to communist. Believe me CIA did every think to make south VN fall as soon as possible. Like I mention, cut off supplied, capture key militairy man, discourage soldier, gave the intellegent military information to the north Vietnam. Don't you see how powerful CIA are. They can make a entire army of south vietnam fall in 3 months.
South VN didn't lost the war to north, they lost the war to CIA
Are you happy to hear the true?
Viet Vet knew that thing but they don't want to piss off their alliace meaning vietnamese americain. So they don't say a word. Vietnamese american knew that but they saw communist fall and USA support them in the new countries. That is why they don't want to talk about that

The VC existed in South Vietnam! They were part of its population. I'd guess there were more VC armed with all manner of weaponry in the South than there were US troops at any point. Or at least it seemed that way. And, if body count figures are remotely accurate then we killed a whole lot of innocent civilians or a whole lot of VC or a mixture of both.. School kids blowing up GI's may have simply been kids trying to save their family but, someone made them do what they did. Atypical warfare is not easy to combat in the traditional sense. Someone dug those tunnels and battled the troops.... Sure there were NVA too but, by and large it was the VC that raised the most havoc, IMO.

I have no idea about what Agenda by what group was in play.. CIA or anyone else.. I just don't know a thing about it and suspect very few do.
What I do know is what makes sense to me. What makes sense to me I've already stated.

I suppose you'd accept as true whatever you accept and that is fine with me. I know we left Vietnam. To let the South defend themselves or to let the war end or whatever is irrelevant to me.. I'm focused on the cause and prosecution of the effort and really only over a 9 year period of relevancy. 1963 - 1972 or so.. and because during this period more issues surfaced than any other that I find 'interesting' including the French involvement.
I know lots of folks died. I know had we never visited Vietnam the country would be somewhat as it is today with a bit larger population. I don't like waring unless we are on solid ground in all respects.

My philosophy about war is simple... I cannot keep folks from attacking me but, I 'll find a way to break them of the habit.

 

[vanln]

We can put this ways. Communist VN were a terrorism . We witness they haras civilians by killing them. Vietnamese in south get killed by VC more then accident from Amercain or south Vietnamese force.expert
We saw many people died cause VC shoot canon to village. Or they shoot School bus or other bus. People get more killed when VC made their revenge. Could be the entire village got killed . Some village they killed some to scare the rest of people. The problem was they get trained by their higher officier. Their officier use big word like: America are the invader, south army was a coruptor. People get train with those big word . If they killed an village they called that village were traitor. Communist soldier thought that not commit a crime, they killed traitor.
Don't confuse here. Village who could turn back to support them. They fired canon to killed them. The next days They came back as a helper. Some village won't support them they killed them and give them a title a traitor.
Don't people see the point. They fool everyone on this earth
In other hand south army and amercan get train to fight for freedom and they would punish if they commit a crime.
To analyse all the died, most 60% were soldier from both side. 25% Civilians got killed by Viet cong. 10% died from north due to bomb. 5% died from accident in the battle.
But the Communist turn the number backward 25% died by american, o% died by VC. And people believe them. Viet vet and Vietnamese kept telling other the true. To bad no one believe them. Suprise

No one hate protestor of war, that were their life, They have their right to live their life. But thinking that VC were hero and think that south VN was bad guy. That was a wrong thinking. We just want to tell people the true . We accept your opinion that you didn't want to fight and die for another country . We respect your opinion. But in other hand you must accept the true , That is Viet Vet and South Vietnam fight for the right thing : the freedom . And Viet Vet and south VN intent to lost the war in Vietnam to make a new victory . End of cold war

 

[chess9]

I got within a block of the wall and stopped. Oh, no, I thought. I'm going to have face the names of three dead friends, yet I wanted to go. I ended up not going. I'm never going because I hate that war and am so mad at the American government....

The sound of an H46 or a Huey are both very distinct, particularly the Huey with it's low frequency rumble "thwump, thwump, thwump". "Apocalypse Now" stuff, for sure.

-Robert

 

[LunarRay]

Vanln,
I'm not too sure we are communicating.
I don't consider the VC were anything but vicious killing machines. But, even so, I've to respect not only the point of view they held - for the purpose of understanding what motivated them - but also, the influence they had on the war... right, wrong or indifferent they raised havoc for the US Soldier, the South Vietnamese Soldier and the Population of the South in general. In other words they were effective. That don't mean I support their position or their methods.
You are focused on the micro and I'm focused on the macro. Who killed who is less important than what motivated it all to have occurred. Even if only one person died they died and I wonder why. Freedom is not the best motivator to die for.
Folks accept the Boston Tea Party as an act of defiance by Patriots against the British. What would you say if I said that John Hancock had tons and tons of tea that he'd purchased below the 'taxed' cost of tea coming on board those ships and then the British dropped the tax and the price of the British tea was less than what Hancock paid for his.. he stood to lose a bundle of money... hehehehe So... they threw the British tea in the Boston harbor.. I think I can see a motivation there that is not so patriotic. (1773 Sam Adams and Hancock)

I'm trying to link together some bits of logic to form a picture that I can understand. Vietnam is just a piece of my puzzle but, it does have links all over the place but nothing substantial nor does it form a nexus between two events clear enough to build upon. In Vietnam the USSR supplied the North and VC but, the USA did send troops and all manner of fighting stuff.. In Afghanistan the USA supplied the 'Freedom Fighters' and the USSR sent troops. The USSR and the USA left Afghanistan to decay into what ever it may... and they both did the same thing to Vietnam.. more or less. It all may be simple civil war or it may be something more.

Why was Afghanistan so important to the USSR that they'd send troops and spend billions just like the USA did in Vietnam. (that is rhetorical) I don't listen to the non denial denials or theories postulated by the government or anyone... I simply look at what did occur and try to make sense of that. I know what folks opined on the matter and it could make sense and be accurate or it may not be.

In 1963 Kennedy signed an executive order which in effect started the ball rolling to end our participation in Vietnam... he was killed a month and a bit later. Then Johnson reversed that order and escalated the war effort. Was Johnson's thinking so different than Kennedy's regarding Vietnam... and why.

I've gone so far off topic with this that I'll stop.. no point in debating any of this... The war was bogus from my point of view!

 

[vanln]

Movative to write history because human want to learn the pass to do better for future. Of course an accurate history help people to have a better vue for future. Next generation will not create same mistake. Vietnam war is not a history for Vietnam anymore, So many countries studies this war. Especially mad man.I believe we also need to write it more accurate. We don't want to give the weapon to a wrong hand. Same as we don't want history fall to wrong hand.


Let say the movie" Hero". For more than thousand year , People of China knew the emperor was a ruthless emperor. But chinese polish as a great leader had vision for china. China was form by hundred of smaller countries. Until now those people still want there countries back. One days, China will be powerful countries. We (USA) may have to break them in smaller pieces by return the land back to people from their native countries. Chinese make a fake history to fool chinese people. One country, one nation. They also send the message to USA.
What we (american) should do to those fake chinese history. What we (american) should do to those fake Viet Cong history . I leave people take a few moment to think about it.

My 2 cents opinion

 

[KevinH]

Originally posted by: vanln
Movative to write history because human want to learn the pass to do better for future. Of course an accurate history help people to have a better vue for future. Next generation will not create same mistake. Vietnam war is not a history for Vietnam anymore, So many countries studies this war. Especially mad man.I believe we also need to write it more accurate. We don't want to give the weapon to a wrong hand. Same as we don't want history fall to wrong hand.


Let say the movie" Hero". For more than thousand year , People of China knew the emperor was a ruthless emperor. But chinese polish as a great leader had vision for china. China was form by hundred of smaller countries. Until now those people still want there countries back. One days, China will be powerful countries. We (USA) may have to break them in smaller pieces by return the land back to people from their native countries. Chinese make a fake history to fool chinese people. One country, one nation. They also send the message to USA.
What we (american) should do to those fake chinese history. What we (american) should do to those fake Viet Cong history . I leave people take a few moment to think about it.

My 2 cents opinion

As a Vietnamese man who left in 78, what's right and wrong isn't so simple. Your assumptions one what really happened is about as truthful as anybody whose made a post in this thread. Fact is, you base your truths on what you see and what you've heard. Not everyone saw and heard the things you did as evidenced by the posters here and my own "experiecnes". Your "opinion" on what the truth of the experience no more and no less valid than there's. The only truth is that it was one big clusterfvck and to assume that all parties invovled weren't guilty of wrongs would be a sham. We can argue about the degrees to which certain parties invovled were guilty but that's a subject for another day.

 

[vanln]

KevinH
Of course I respect everybody opinions. We also let people look at Vietnam war at difference degree. But we must let them see the true . Someone could have a better vue about Viet nam war, Viet vet and south Vietnam gorvement.
I saw someone like Jane Fonda had a better vue about VN. Let see what she said.

In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."

The true always is the true. My speech is base on hundred of books ( Vietnamese book) and Thousand of Vietnamese people that I met in my life. Of course that is inclued my experience. Hoping one days someone will translate in to English. And hoping Viet Vet help us. Let the word see the true
KevinH,
I 'm completly disagree with your word" Another day". When will be another days. We are waiting for 30 years. It is long enough. Another days is wrong word to use. We have to do it now. Because witness still alive.

 

[LunarRay]

Vanln,
Why not start your own thread on the topic... "Vietnam, My Perspective"
If you take it bit by bit.. at the relevant point in history when Vietnam became an issue and move it forward bit by bit.. not in the same post but over any number of posts perhaps you'd be able to debunk what misconceptions are held by some and maybe edified by others.. who knows..
Anyhow, I think the end of WWII is really when Vietnam started to become problematic.

 

[vanln]

Thank you for your advice, lunarray
but we just want to tell the fact, we don't want to become propagandise like viet cong. And we don't get paid to sit on politic forum 24 hrs/day like vc. Anyways thank for the advise

 

[KevinH]

Originally posted by: vanln
KevinH
Of course I respect everybody opinions. We also let people look at Vietnam war at difference degree. But we must let them see the true . Someone could have a better vue about Viet nam war, Viet vet and south Vietnam gorvement.
I saw someone like Jane Fonda had a better vue about VN. Let see what she said.

In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."

The true always is the true. My speech is base on hundred of books ( Vietnamese book) and Thousand of Vietnamese people that I met in my life. Of course that is inclued my experience. Hoping one days someone will translate in to English. And hoping Viet Vet help us. Let the word see the true
KevinH,
I 'm completly disagree with your word" Another day". When will be another days. We are waiting for 30 years. It is long enough. Another days is wrong word to use. We have to do it now. Because witness still alive.

Congratulations on entirely missing the point of my post.

 

[vanln]

Kevin you should know when i'm talking to you, and when i'm not. Damnit, I'm not sure are you Vietnamese or not. Next time your father in law talk to your wife in front of you. Make sure you understand his message point to you or to your wife. If not, shame on you . Get it