LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
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It is generally accepted that Self Esteem does not rely on external praise.. it is self sufficient. Self Esteem is knowing that you are OK and that what others may think of you is based on their view and it is based on how and why they think what they may think. It is what you think of yourself that is important to you.. If you love yourself you are better capable of loving others. How you see others is based, in part, in how you see yourself.. where you align and like that.
Is there no relationship betwix SBV's and their own mind set?
Hehe, that was very convincing. What makes you think you would know the truth if it hit you in the face?
I maintain that knowledge is acquired via unlearning and my experience tells me that is very very painful. I know few people who have suffered that kind of pain. I think the price is everything you believe.
I see one guy said he was a protestor and treated the ones coming back from nam pretty much warmly, Well I was treated anything but warmly, The army got a unmarked med van to take me to Hines from Walter Reed, I spent 5 months in diff. hospitals and 12 months in rehab in Ill., It wasn't to bad unless you had to go by a place of higher learning or they were having another peace march, Peace march was where they tried to stop any thing that had DAV plates like I had, Call you names and throw things at your car, I had to go by IUPUI to get to the VA hospital, Yes I have seen protestors and have little use for them
thebestMAX
Diamond Member
- Sep 14, 2000
- 7,511
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Well. I didnt get back from 'Nam but I did volunteer for Helicopter pilot training and most did go to 'Nam. I got out in late '67 and didnt see many protesters when I lived in Minnesota for a year afterward although there were some.
I visited the East Coast however to see my Mother and it was kind of reminisent of that visit to see the protesters at the RNC on TV this week especially the know nothing, no life experiene hippie type college students and the black girl with the floppy hat featured on TV (Sorry, not describing her as black just no other way to say it).
PS: Good for your Dad, Feldenak. Id a helped him if Id have been there.
I visited the East Coast however to see my Mother and it was kind of reminisent of that visit to see the protesters at the RNC on TV this week especially the know nothing, no life experiene hippie type college students and the black girl with the floppy hat featured on TV (Sorry, not describing her as black just no other way to say it).
PS: Good for your Dad, Feldenak. Id a helped him if Id have been there.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
I was in Navy Hospital, San Diego for 4 months in '68 and would look out the window at Balboa Park and the gathering protestors... nothing violent occured.. and when I got out of the service in '69 I didn't see much of anything like blocking specific type of cars... they'd block an entire street in protest if someone important was passing by or suppose to..
There were even organized events supporting the wounded and returning dead... this was what it was all about... stopping the insanity that resulted in folks being shot up or dead.. the beef was with the politicians not the Vets or GI's..
I actually saw more protesting in Hawaii when I was in the Hospital there in '65 and that was before the issue hit the fan. But, I think it had more to do with Draft issues and an increase in the folks going to Nam. In the six years I served I don't recall any really violent issues directed at me.. But, then again I tend to forget unpleasant issues.
I was pushed for time when I posted that, LunarRay I didn't mean they were looking for specific type of cars but if they saw a DAV plate they would just go off with the names and try and block your car and things like that, I never seen them supporting the wounded or dead, The way they looked to me is they didn't support anything other than sex music and drugs, That is just me, By the way what is this OLD VETS
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Not my thread but I'd think Old means from Nam. Ancient would be Korea and Creator would be WWII...
I have DAV plates too.. today, in fact and if someone today hassled me about issues without knowing my position one way or another I'd find that an indictment against anyone in the military or who has been in the military. That would be like Kerry driving to the Congress to give his famous 'We did this and that' speech and seeing how he was thrice wounded might have DAV plates or Purple Heart Plates or what ever and the protesters blocking him or throwing stuff at him... That would not play well in the media and it was the media that they were trying to attract and via them gain sympathy and followers... showing wounded GI's bring to the nation what war is all about... and given it was bogus or at least it was alleged back then to be bogus the focus by any organized group would never be to harm Vets or GI's. I do suppose and accept that there were incidents as you described but, they must have been radical idiots..
My great grand father was a " Viet minh" He died during the war to fight for our independent . My grand father and my father joined south army force and they continued to fight for to stop communist . My grand father get wounded and he resigh and became a success business man. We become rich because we were rich not because we are corrupted like other people think . My father told me that he took more supply from army to give to poor soldier wife . Some people told him that his was a corrupted . But he didn't care
My family believe that Viet nam must be independent and democracy that is why we fight with North Vietnamese and VC . My generation believe they did the right thing because Vietnam is not a demoncracy country . We saw communist vietnamese can not bring the good to our country . Just last couple month we witness Vietnamese girl for sale on ebay . Monk and Father are in jail . Millions of people died after war end in jail and escape from Vietnam
For those who believe they fought for freedom or fight to stop the communist regime . Your are a hero . For those who believe their war in vietnam was an invalder war. For sure you don't have nothing to proud
To feldenak: would you tell your father that I admire him . His is my hero. God bless him . And I hope that he continue to have a positive thinking : He fight for the freedom . Let me tell you that your father could save my life and my family life during the war . On behaft of a vietnamese american I will tell you right now that i will give my life and my family life to protect this country (USA) like your father gave his life to defend the freedom of my country (vietnam) . Your father had positive thinking that is why he will earn good return.
For those don't have a positive thinking like protester . I would say god bless you too
To analyse the Vietnam war I would said: Communist is a nightmare for man kind . Those who fight to stop the communist , they did the right thing . Didn't matter where they fouhgt in Korea or Vietnam . The big picture is human was in the fight with communist . Not american fight with Vietnamese . Who had the change to fight for this war , they were heros . Who are thinking american fight with vietnam , they got the wrong picture
My family believe that Viet nam must be independent and democracy that is why we fight with North Vietnamese and VC . My generation believe they did the right thing because Vietnam is not a demoncracy country . We saw communist vietnamese can not bring the good to our country . Just last couple month we witness Vietnamese girl for sale on ebay . Monk and Father are in jail . Millions of people died after war end in jail and escape from Vietnam
For those who believe they fought for freedom or fight to stop the communist regime . Your are a hero . For those who believe their war in vietnam was an invalder war. For sure you don't have nothing to proud
To feldenak: would you tell your father that I admire him . His is my hero. God bless him . And I hope that he continue to have a positive thinking : He fight for the freedom . Let me tell you that your father could save my life and my family life during the war . On behaft of a vietnamese american I will tell you right now that i will give my life and my family life to protect this country (USA) like your father gave his life to defend the freedom of my country (vietnam) . Your father had positive thinking that is why he will earn good return.
For those don't have a positive thinking like protester . I would say god bless you too
To analyse the Vietnam war I would said: Communist is a nightmare for man kind . Those who fight to stop the communist , they did the right thing . Didn't matter where they fouhgt in Korea or Vietnam . The big picture is human was in the fight with communist . Not american fight with Vietnamese . Who had the change to fight for this war , they were heros . Who are thinking american fight with vietnam , they got the wrong picture
To captnkirk,
I' m really want to know who your are and i don't want to argue with you . But this my observation from you.
First I see you but your signature is an engineer . Poeple who telling other people their title . Their intention is telling other that they have high education and they knowledge is high . What ever they said is correct . That is an easy ways to fool other poeple
But in other hand You mis-spelling the word sentence (you wrote sentance at thread Vietnam) . That is a rare and shame mistake for an american . Especially for a guy who is an engineer.
All your post about VN . You are trying to tell something is true but you add some think not true . You are puting poeple accept some thing not true in some true word. I can give an example by this:
You have a father. You have a mother . your are crazy but your father is great and your mother is great .
The sentence "you have a father . You have a mother" is true
And the sentence " your father is great and your mother is great that make poeple feel good .
But the sentence " you are crazy " is not true
The ways you tried to fool other people by accept everything included the one is not true. And you cover up yourself with a cover of a knowledge man (with a title of an engineer)
If someone ask you the sentence" you are crazy" . You don't know how to answer . You lead the conversation to another direction by using some word like "your english is not good ". Next time please answer people question.
Like this topic . Sound like nothing . But I can analyze like this . You want to know how many viet vet in this forum . Second you want to lead people to a fight . The result : only people in south VN ( Vietnamese american) get hurt
Bottle line I want to khow Are you a smart guy or a guy soo innocent who don't know the side effect ? Either ways I hope you are not one of it. Next time walk aways some sensitive topic
A lot of VC ( viet cong) do exactly same thing like you in other forum .Don't blame me if my thought that you are a VC
I' m really want to know who your are and i don't want to argue with you . But this my observation from you.
First I see you but your signature is an engineer . Poeple who telling other people their title . Their intention is telling other that they have high education and they knowledge is high . What ever they said is correct . That is an easy ways to fool other poeple
But in other hand You mis-spelling the word sentence (you wrote sentance at thread Vietnam) . That is a rare and shame mistake for an american . Especially for a guy who is an engineer.
All your post about VN . You are trying to tell something is true but you add some think not true . You are puting poeple accept some thing not true in some true word. I can give an example by this:
You have a father. You have a mother . your are crazy but your father is great and your mother is great .
The sentence "you have a father . You have a mother" is true
And the sentence " your father is great and your mother is great that make poeple feel good .
But the sentence " you are crazy " is not true
The ways you tried to fool other people by accept everything included the one is not true. And you cover up yourself with a cover of a knowledge man (with a title of an engineer)
If someone ask you the sentence" you are crazy" . You don't know how to answer . You lead the conversation to another direction by using some word like "your english is not good ". Next time please answer people question.
Like this topic . Sound like nothing . But I can analyze like this . You want to know how many viet vet in this forum . Second you want to lead people to a fight . The result : only people in south VN ( Vietnamese american) get hurt
Bottle line I want to khow Are you a smart guy or a guy soo innocent who don't know the side effect ? Either ways I hope you are not one of it. Next time walk aways some sensitive topic
A lot of VC ( viet cong) do exactly same thing like you in other forum .Don't blame me if my thought that you are a VC
The independent fighters of the North weren't Communist, but because of situation they had to join the lesser more radical socialist party. Vietnam never had a good history with China, but was force to trade with them, because the US supported the French & the corrupted South. Presently Vietnam is not a communist country as it were, and have been working to become more of a democratic system since the US dropped the trade embargo in 1992. And, if the North Vietnamese government is such a bad government, why then Vietnam invaded Cambodia in 1978, and left in 1980 after stabilizes the country? Where the hell were the US/Europeans/Russia/China when the Cambodian (no oil) needed help? When more than 2 millions people died in 3 years under Pol Pot in a country of 5.5 million people? (It is like 100 millions US citizens death in 3 years).
And, just to let you know, the French/ Philippines discovered oil in Vietnam water just before the US joined the war. And, because of oil the Chinese annex the Spratly Islands in 1974 and sunk 2 Vietnamese ships. And now American oil company built rigs under the Chinese & Vietnam flag in the area.
My great grandfather fought the French and die in search for Vietnam freedom. My grandfather was in the French army, and my aunts/uncles were in the NVA/South Army. My cousins died while were in the service of the North & South. Other civilian family members & friends were killed by the French/VC/US/South.
War suck because we all the same under the skin.
Like LunarRay said, the soldiers were only following orders and many think that they were doing the right thing, but in reality no war justify the dead of soldiers or the innocents. And, the administrations should be held accountable for their corruptions & lies, or maybe we should have an arena for the leaders of the disputing countries going mano a mano as a way to settle their differences.
[edit] PS. If I go down to California again I have to look you up LunarRay for a brew. :beer:
judasmachine
Diamond Member
- Sep 15, 2002
- 8,515
- 3
- 81
I think alot of it is the media's fault. Quite a bit of my friends go to protests, and there would never dream of pissing or spitting on a vet. Most offensive thing they'd do it put flyers in their hands. OK they'd yell alot, but this isn't Kent ST in '68. My father who was in the Air Force during Nam (stationed in Lubbock, TX and later Almagordo, NM) never saw a single protest. Like the guy said above the biggest threat was from the locals who just thought they had to protect their women. But then my Dad's only international conflict was a bar fight in Juarez, Mexico.
Capt:
I became one of them when I got out of the Corps. My opposition to the war began in 1964 when I was first educated by some Canadian pilots about the political ramifications. I was not into the political aspect of the war until then. I gave Uncle Sam the benefit of the doubt, but haven't since. I still regard Johnson and McNamera as evil incarnate.
-Robert
I became one of them when I got out of the Corps. My opposition to the war began in 1964 when I was first educated by some Canadian pilots about the political ramifications. I was not into the political aspect of the war until then. I gave Uncle Sam the benefit of the doubt, but haven't since. I still regard Johnson and McNamera as evil incarnate.
-Robert
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
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Too bad the South Viet Namese Army rolled over like little bitches once our troops left despite having better weapons and arms than the NVA and the VC. One would think that if they really were fighting for their freedom they would have put up more resistence like the foes from the North, after all the NVA were fighting the most powerful army yet they never capitulated like the South did.
To Offtopic
Your post is in 3:01 AM meaning 12:00AM in california or 2:00AM in Texas . No one in us awake to write
some thing at that time. You must live in asia, In Viet nam to be exact . What is your time? must be noon isn't it.
First US never intent to help french . After WWII they force all country like England, french return
all colonies their independent . French never give up that is why they return to VN
French lost the battle dien bien phu because no air support from US. All the supplies US dropped in
the zone of communist . Their intention were clear . They didn't want to help french
FYI read this
______________________________________________________
Roosevelt insists on Vietnamese independence
In Washington these military considerations mixed with, and sometimes intensified, the diplomatic problems. American diplomats still wanted to support Vichy France's claims of sovereignty over the French colonies in order to forestall any move by the Germans to face the headstrong leader of the Free French, General Charles de Gaulle, their new ally. President Franklin D. Roosevelt and other administration figures assumed contradictory postures on the Indochina question. On the one hand, the U.S. announced its firm opposition to a restoration of European empires in Asia, thus drawing the wrath of Britain's prime minister, Winston Churchill. Roosevelt and Churchill worked out a tacit agreement that the U.S. would not force England to relinquish its empire, especially India. But FDR was more direct when he spoke about Indochina. In January 1944 he wrote to Secretary of State Hull that "'France has had the country ... for nearly one hundred years, and the people are worse off than they were at the begining. ... France has milked it for one hundred years. The people of Indochina are entitled to something better than that."
In public, however, Roosevelt was forced to pacify the French. He did not want to give Vichy France a major propaganda opportunity: to argue that only Vichy could maintain France's glory and that an Allied victory would result in the dismemberment of the French empire. De Gaulle was well aware of the tensions in U.S. policy but had no means of gaining the sort of commitment from Washington that Churchill had received. Neither of the eastern Allies, Russia or China, would side with de Gaulle since their leaders, Stalin and Chiang Kai-shek, shared Roosevelt's views. De Gaulle turned to his fellow imperialist, Winston Churchill, for aid. The result was one of the most serious disputes in the Grand Alliance.
The war on the Asian mainland had been divided into two theaters. The Southeast Asia Command (SEAC) was formed in 1943 under British control. The China theater had been established in 1942, under Chinese command, acting in consultation with the U.S. China mission headed after 1944 by General Albert C. Wedemeyer. Indochina had been placed in the China theater in 1942, but when the British established SEAC, they argued that Indochina should be shifted to its jurisdiction. U.S. intelligence reported that the British planned to refuse cooperation with any native organizations in VietNam and to aid only the French. It was clear that Britain wanted wartime control of Indochina in order to restore the colony to France at the conclusion of hostilities.
Roosevelt was not deceived. He ordered that under no circumstances should any aid be accorded French forces Indochina consulted about the area's postwar future. The dispute between the U.S. and Britain over command jurisdiction in Indochina was not fully resolved until the Potsdam Conference in 1945, but an interim agreement worked out whereby the action in Indochina after first clearing its plans with the China command. At Potsdam, Britain's claims were partially conceded. To supervise the approaching Japanese surrender, Indochina was to be divided at the sixteenth parallel, British forces stationed south of the line and the Chinese occupying the northern portion.
While Roosevelt was doing his best to prevent a return of the French to VietNam, he was also developing alternative plans for Indochina. One of his first proposals was to place VietNam under Chinese control. Chiang Kai-shek had not been known for his restraint during the course of wartime diplomacy, but in this instance he struck a rare note of realism. when asked if he wanted to govern Indochina, he replied, 'Under no circumstances." He then added, "'They are not Chinese. They would not assimilate into the Chinese people." Two thousand years of Vietnamese history had taught him a lesson that the French were soon to learn at a heavy cost.
Following Chiang's refusal, Roosevelt toyed with the idea of an international trusteeship to administer VietNam until the Allies deemed it ready for sell-government. This trusteeship, which Roosevelt later included in his proposals for the United Nations, would include both Vietnamese and French, but also Chinese, Russians, and Americans. At the Teheran Conference of the Allied leaders in November 1943 Roosevelt, Chiang, and Stalin affirmed the plan. Only Churchill opposed the idea, fearing that a chain reaction of independence movements might reach India.
U.S. supports Ho Chi Minh
___________________________________________________________________________________
My great grand father was a" Viet minh " but he was not a communist . The word Viet minh is
meaning "Vietnamese alliace" . That is include other patriot parties . Not only communist partie . After those days of fighting with french. Your great uncle Ho chi minh killed all other party and declare the victory for communist party .
Vietnam is a democratic country ? who believe you?? Everydays I hear the radio/news . Vietnamese Police put people in jail
. Give you some real case :A doctor send a message to other Vietnamese in other country . Your gorverment put hime in jail for 3 years . An other case , a layer in jail for 3 for years because of his speech about goverment. And you know what ? that is just happen few month ago
Don't you see this country , they make fun at Bush everwhere . That is democracy . How about you can you make fun at your uncle Ho chi minh?
I bet you can not . Or can people vote for an other political partie , beside communist partie?
FYI they are not such thing call help Cambodia
US intent to left VN before 1975 . They want to break the communist force . They know chinese communist can not get alone with So viet . By breaking that force
they must use VN . They make a big trap "the oil" . ( the oil that you mention discover by french) . 1974 The president of south Vietnam announce " Vietnam had oil".
The China invade the island near by for their security of oil. They sunk 2 south vietnam ship (like you said) . But we brave enought to fight it back to defend our land . Where are VC at that
time ?? And now they share a part of that oil . They should not because that land is belong to Viet nam
Chinse and So viet put money together to support the north invalde the south. In other hand US cut off supplies for the south . Nguyen van thieu , the president get mad.
He play a danger pocker game . He let half of south vietnam to VC with hoping US change their mine. He lost this pocker game , US was not come back . The situation is out of control
Soldier turn retrieve to escape because they can not find their generals. Most generals got meeting with US advisors in US batte ship. Make it nice word if we call meeting but you can call capture by US also. Sodier can
not find their general so they decide to retrieve to saigon . The president also could not find his key miitary man. With limited supplies , new order from him 3 shoots canon per days
The president know he get set up by US . He resign and run out of country . People believe his is a corrupt president and he brought with him 10 tons of gold. But later we all know VC got it. VC just make a story to make people hate him more. Soldiers get more discourage because US friend told them their best help would be transportation to out of country. 4 generals killed themself to honor their loyalty to country. Their courage was brave enough to show the world they are not coward. They lost the war because they have modern gun without bullet.
Before the fall of saigon one week . US forced the prime minister to sign a document: US must retrieve out of Vietnam . Communist came into the south without a single battle. Few year later VC send an ambassador to US to ask for money . They declare the victory. But US told them the war was between your own country. We came to help our Allias and they kick us out before war end with proof. So US didn't paid them a penny
Now this is the top time for Vietnam after war end, VC must choice the allias : China- soviet . US was correct That Vietnam had to joined Soviet . With 1000 years bad history with chinese and the
head leader of north vietnamese has a son in law. He is a soviet man. China get mad . They support Pol-pot . An unhappy student from VC . He never earn a single respect from comrade Vietnam.
Polpot believe he could get south vietnam, an ex-land of combodia with the help of Chinese. He started his killing field at vietnam border. More than 1000 of people get killed . But at that time VC tried to cover up.
When VC decided to invade combodia. Before they start the invading war to Cambodia. They killed the entire vietnamese village and told Vietnamese people that Polpot did that. People were angry , they support the war
VC start the war by using all the weapon left from south vietnam . They recruit tank driver soldiers from south army. South army this time they fight with a stranger. They were happy to help. Less then a week
Vietnamese marched in capitol of cambodia by using US technic and US weapon from south army.
China made a big mistake . They never believed a communist country invald another communist country By using the word " Help people" . They get more mad so they send 200,000 soldiers to north
Vietnam by called a tern "teach vietnam a lesson" . They make another mistake. They thought Vietnam invading Cambodia by using their weapon. But it was not those weapon, Vc was using US weapon
and recruit south army force. Those weapon was limited but enough to invade Campodia . And the weapon supplies from Soviet/china they moved back to north vietnam
Before the VC strike back , they killed a famous opera start. Their news paper said She got killed by chinese. People was anger and support the war . End of that war Vietnam get 3 towns completly destroy by Chinese. On chinese side 200,000 chinese soldier got killed and wounded. All civilian chinese must leave Vietnam by boats . Chinese and Vietnamese became enemies. Vietnamese scared chinese use Laos to invade Vietnam , so they invade Loas before chinese. After chosen Hum-sen , another combodia student . This student was must better. He knew how to obey the vietnamese master . Vietnam retrieve out of Cambodia after hundred of thousand civilian Vietnamese included under cover sodiers immigrant to cambodia. Camodia start a new life, their gorvement speaking in vietnamese in their meeting . Laos is not in a better situation , hundred thousands new citizens Laos are vietnameses. School are speaking Vietnamese.
Vietnam can survive 4000 years of civilization and grown . Because we always accept the good and leave the bad. Communist forced people to accept only their ideal . That is against the vietnamese will
As up to now human know the communist is just a BS theory . Vietnamese people knew that . This theory is using to serve the good to a few people . Not for the country. Some people keep telling that
If the south VN was a corrupt regime . What should we call Vietnam right now? a country that people paid every thing under table. Speed ticket, you could paid to police 1/2 price for no ticket. Vietnamese American go back to the country , $10 to $20 inside passport. If no dollars bill inside passport. Police will take their luggage to check and return after 5 hours. Harasment isn't it? Built a success house, under table
will make more easy. Same with business, under table is the success.
Communist vietnam is more worst than south vietnam. We can not take the corrupt title when a big fan communist is arround. Well the title is best fit for VC .
As of now, with all evidents, that is telling me and the world , south vietnam did fought for the right thing
Vietnamese American after immigrant to US . We saw the vision of man kind from american. That is not the best theory , but that is the need for human in this century. We accepted it on the will of
Vietnamese. We are asking Vietnamese gorverment drop the communist theory to accept the democracy theory. But to bad your goverment can not leave the power. They are using millions of dollars
to rewrite the history. Polish themself with book. Using thousand of paid netters who work 24 hours/days in all politic forum . Vietnamese american never get paid to tell the world that Vietnamese
communist regime must be removed. We are volunteer to do the job on our free time. And we are not dirty like communist, send virus to netters. Or block their IP address
Vietnam War is suck that is true. But Vietnamese war was indirect to lead to the end of communist regime. Those who died could proud enought because their sacrified has good return. Their sacrified could save billions of other life on this earth.
War to stop Germany was happen in europ. We fell sorry for them with millions of people died. But they stopped Germany
War with communist happen in Vietnam, we lost millions of lifes. But we made communist regime fall
Where happens a conflict there is war. The question is who is lucky enought to stay aways from war . If you can not escape the war , face it and proud your sacrify
Like people said. Goverment lie to their soldier. But Communist Vietnam is the best
During the war, they lie to soldier that South people didn't have food. American took them all . People were slave.
During Cambodia war, they killed the entire village and lie that cambodia did that
During chinese war, They killed the opera star
Tell me what did south vietnam lie to people? After war why millions people escape the country, Why? No one told us that USA have free gold. But we knew for sure USA has freedom and that is why we risk our life for freedom
Your post is in 3:01 AM meaning 12:00AM in california or 2:00AM in Texas . No one in us awake to write
some thing at that time. You must live in asia, In Viet nam to be exact . What is your time? must be noon isn't it.
First US never intent to help french . After WWII they force all country like England, french return
all colonies their independent . French never give up that is why they return to VN
French lost the battle dien bien phu because no air support from US. All the supplies US dropped in
the zone of communist . Their intention were clear . They didn't want to help french
FYI read this
______________________________________________________
Roosevelt insists on Vietnamese independence
In Washington these military considerations mixed with, and sometimes intensified, the diplomatic problems. American diplomats still wanted to support Vichy France's claims of sovereignty over the French colonies in order to forestall any move by the Germans to face the headstrong leader of the Free French, General Charles de Gaulle, their new ally. President Franklin D. Roosevelt and other administration figures assumed contradictory postures on the Indochina question. On the one hand, the U.S. announced its firm opposition to a restoration of European empires in Asia, thus drawing the wrath of Britain's prime minister, Winston Churchill. Roosevelt and Churchill worked out a tacit agreement that the U.S. would not force England to relinquish its empire, especially India. But FDR was more direct when he spoke about Indochina. In January 1944 he wrote to Secretary of State Hull that "'France has had the country ... for nearly one hundred years, and the people are worse off than they were at the begining. ... France has milked it for one hundred years. The people of Indochina are entitled to something better than that."
In public, however, Roosevelt was forced to pacify the French. He did not want to give Vichy France a major propaganda opportunity: to argue that only Vichy could maintain France's glory and that an Allied victory would result in the dismemberment of the French empire. De Gaulle was well aware of the tensions in U.S. policy but had no means of gaining the sort of commitment from Washington that Churchill had received. Neither of the eastern Allies, Russia or China, would side with de Gaulle since their leaders, Stalin and Chiang Kai-shek, shared Roosevelt's views. De Gaulle turned to his fellow imperialist, Winston Churchill, for aid. The result was one of the most serious disputes in the Grand Alliance.
The war on the Asian mainland had been divided into two theaters. The Southeast Asia Command (SEAC) was formed in 1943 under British control. The China theater had been established in 1942, under Chinese command, acting in consultation with the U.S. China mission headed after 1944 by General Albert C. Wedemeyer. Indochina had been placed in the China theater in 1942, but when the British established SEAC, they argued that Indochina should be shifted to its jurisdiction. U.S. intelligence reported that the British planned to refuse cooperation with any native organizations in VietNam and to aid only the French. It was clear that Britain wanted wartime control of Indochina in order to restore the colony to France at the conclusion of hostilities.
Roosevelt was not deceived. He ordered that under no circumstances should any aid be accorded French forces Indochina consulted about the area's postwar future. The dispute between the U.S. and Britain over command jurisdiction in Indochina was not fully resolved until the Potsdam Conference in 1945, but an interim agreement worked out whereby the action in Indochina after first clearing its plans with the China command. At Potsdam, Britain's claims were partially conceded. To supervise the approaching Japanese surrender, Indochina was to be divided at the sixteenth parallel, British forces stationed south of the line and the Chinese occupying the northern portion.
While Roosevelt was doing his best to prevent a return of the French to VietNam, he was also developing alternative plans for Indochina. One of his first proposals was to place VietNam under Chinese control. Chiang Kai-shek had not been known for his restraint during the course of wartime diplomacy, but in this instance he struck a rare note of realism. when asked if he wanted to govern Indochina, he replied, 'Under no circumstances." He then added, "'They are not Chinese. They would not assimilate into the Chinese people." Two thousand years of Vietnamese history had taught him a lesson that the French were soon to learn at a heavy cost.
Following Chiang's refusal, Roosevelt toyed with the idea of an international trusteeship to administer VietNam until the Allies deemed it ready for sell-government. This trusteeship, which Roosevelt later included in his proposals for the United Nations, would include both Vietnamese and French, but also Chinese, Russians, and Americans. At the Teheran Conference of the Allied leaders in November 1943 Roosevelt, Chiang, and Stalin affirmed the plan. Only Churchill opposed the idea, fearing that a chain reaction of independence movements might reach India.
U.S. supports Ho Chi Minh
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My great grand father was a" Viet minh " but he was not a communist . The word Viet minh is
meaning "Vietnamese alliace" . That is include other patriot parties . Not only communist partie . After those days of fighting with french. Your great uncle Ho chi minh killed all other party and declare the victory for communist party .
Vietnam is a democratic country ? who believe you?? Everydays I hear the radio/news . Vietnamese Police put people in jail
. Give you some real case :A doctor send a message to other Vietnamese in other country . Your gorverment put hime in jail for 3 years . An other case , a layer in jail for 3 for years because of his speech about goverment. And you know what ? that is just happen few month ago
Don't you see this country , they make fun at Bush everwhere . That is democracy . How about you can you make fun at your uncle Ho chi minh?
I bet you can not . Or can people vote for an other political partie , beside communist partie?
FYI they are not such thing call help Cambodia
US intent to left VN before 1975 . They want to break the communist force . They know chinese communist can not get alone with So viet . By breaking that force
they must use VN . They make a big trap "the oil" . ( the oil that you mention discover by french) . 1974 The president of south Vietnam announce " Vietnam had oil".
The China invade the island near by for their security of oil. They sunk 2 south vietnam ship (like you said) . But we brave enought to fight it back to defend our land . Where are VC at that
time ?? And now they share a part of that oil . They should not because that land is belong to Viet nam
Chinse and So viet put money together to support the north invalde the south. In other hand US cut off supplies for the south . Nguyen van thieu , the president get mad.
He play a danger pocker game . He let half of south vietnam to VC with hoping US change their mine. He lost this pocker game , US was not come back . The situation is out of control
Soldier turn retrieve to escape because they can not find their generals. Most generals got meeting with US advisors in US batte ship. Make it nice word if we call meeting but you can call capture by US also. Sodier can
not find their general so they decide to retrieve to saigon . The president also could not find his key miitary man. With limited supplies , new order from him 3 shoots canon per days
The president know he get set up by US . He resign and run out of country . People believe his is a corrupt president and he brought with him 10 tons of gold. But later we all know VC got it. VC just make a story to make people hate him more. Soldiers get more discourage because US friend told them their best help would be transportation to out of country. 4 generals killed themself to honor their loyalty to country. Their courage was brave enough to show the world they are not coward. They lost the war because they have modern gun without bullet.
Before the fall of saigon one week . US forced the prime minister to sign a document: US must retrieve out of Vietnam . Communist came into the south without a single battle. Few year later VC send an ambassador to US to ask for money . They declare the victory. But US told them the war was between your own country. We came to help our Allias and they kick us out before war end with proof. So US didn't paid them a penny
Now this is the top time for Vietnam after war end, VC must choice the allias : China- soviet . US was correct That Vietnam had to joined Soviet . With 1000 years bad history with chinese and the
head leader of north vietnamese has a son in law. He is a soviet man. China get mad . They support Pol-pot . An unhappy student from VC . He never earn a single respect from comrade Vietnam.
Polpot believe he could get south vietnam, an ex-land of combodia with the help of Chinese. He started his killing field at vietnam border. More than 1000 of people get killed . But at that time VC tried to cover up.
When VC decided to invade combodia. Before they start the invading war to Cambodia. They killed the entire vietnamese village and told Vietnamese people that Polpot did that. People were angry , they support the war
VC start the war by using all the weapon left from south vietnam . They recruit tank driver soldiers from south army. South army this time they fight with a stranger. They were happy to help. Less then a week
Vietnamese marched in capitol of cambodia by using US technic and US weapon from south army.
China made a big mistake . They never believed a communist country invald another communist country By using the word " Help people" . They get more mad so they send 200,000 soldiers to north
Vietnam by called a tern "teach vietnam a lesson" . They make another mistake. They thought Vietnam invading Cambodia by using their weapon. But it was not those weapon, Vc was using US weapon
and recruit south army force. Those weapon was limited but enough to invade Campodia . And the weapon supplies from Soviet/china they moved back to north vietnam
Before the VC strike back , they killed a famous opera start. Their news paper said She got killed by chinese. People was anger and support the war . End of that war Vietnam get 3 towns completly destroy by Chinese. On chinese side 200,000 chinese soldier got killed and wounded. All civilian chinese must leave Vietnam by boats . Chinese and Vietnamese became enemies. Vietnamese scared chinese use Laos to invade Vietnam , so they invade Loas before chinese. After chosen Hum-sen , another combodia student . This student was must better. He knew how to obey the vietnamese master . Vietnam retrieve out of Cambodia after hundred of thousand civilian Vietnamese included under cover sodiers immigrant to cambodia. Camodia start a new life, their gorvement speaking in vietnamese in their meeting . Laos is not in a better situation , hundred thousands new citizens Laos are vietnameses. School are speaking Vietnamese.
Vietnam can survive 4000 years of civilization and grown . Because we always accept the good and leave the bad. Communist forced people to accept only their ideal . That is against the vietnamese will
As up to now human know the communist is just a BS theory . Vietnamese people knew that . This theory is using to serve the good to a few people . Not for the country. Some people keep telling that
If the south VN was a corrupt regime . What should we call Vietnam right now? a country that people paid every thing under table. Speed ticket, you could paid to police 1/2 price for no ticket. Vietnamese American go back to the country , $10 to $20 inside passport. If no dollars bill inside passport. Police will take their luggage to check and return after 5 hours. Harasment isn't it? Built a success house, under table
will make more easy. Same with business, under table is the success.
Communist vietnam is more worst than south vietnam. We can not take the corrupt title when a big fan communist is arround. Well the title is best fit for VC .
As of now, with all evidents, that is telling me and the world , south vietnam did fought for the right thing
Vietnamese American after immigrant to US . We saw the vision of man kind from american. That is not the best theory , but that is the need for human in this century. We accepted it on the will of
Vietnamese. We are asking Vietnamese gorverment drop the communist theory to accept the democracy theory. But to bad your goverment can not leave the power. They are using millions of dollars
to rewrite the history. Polish themself with book. Using thousand of paid netters who work 24 hours/days in all politic forum . Vietnamese american never get paid to tell the world that Vietnamese
communist regime must be removed. We are volunteer to do the job on our free time. And we are not dirty like communist, send virus to netters. Or block their IP address
Vietnam War is suck that is true. But Vietnamese war was indirect to lead to the end of communist regime. Those who died could proud enought because their sacrified has good return. Their sacrified could save billions of other life on this earth.
War to stop Germany was happen in europ. We fell sorry for them with millions of people died. But they stopped Germany
War with communist happen in Vietnam, we lost millions of lifes. But we made communist regime fall
Where happens a conflict there is war. The question is who is lucky enought to stay aways from war . If you can not escape the war , face it and proud your sacrify
Like people said. Goverment lie to their soldier. But Communist Vietnam is the best
During the war, they lie to soldier that South people didn't have food. American took them all . People were slave.
During Cambodia war, they killed the entire village and lie that cambodia did that
During chinese war, They killed the opera star
Tell me what did south vietnam lie to people? After war why millions people escape the country, Why? No one told us that USA have free gold. But we knew for sure USA has freedom and that is why we risk our life for freedom
I live in Victoria Canada since 1980 & I'm in the same time zone as California, and my uncle isn't the weasel Ho Chi Minh.
I hope that your leader isn?t the beloved cowered/thieving Nguyen Van Thieu that ran off 2 weeks prior to the collapse of the South, and he ran sacked the Vietnamese national museum ++ taken over 20 millions US dollar and gold from the national bank with him ?for safe keeping?, and not including the hundred of millions of US aid/investments in international banks.
I'm surprise that you are still angry over a war that happened almost 30 years ago. I personally have seen death by both the South & North. My great grand father, grand father, and father lost their properties to the VC. Two of my uncles were jailed by the VC, one uncle were jail by the South for 29 years because he was voicing his discontent of Diem/Nhu and he were jailed by the North for 10 years because he criticizes the Communist government. One of my uncle (my favorite uncle) were hung till death by the Communist in 1982 because he refuses to be brain washed under the Ho thinking process. My best cousin/playmet was in labor camp for 6 years and died. My father was jailed in Communist labor camp for 4 years till we bribed for his release in 1979, and his crime was for being a successful business man (we lost several homes, hotel and a striving movie/advertising agency. There are many more lost, but too much to list.
To secure Indo China from the Communist the US got into the fray and drop Ho, because the French/UN supported the Diem that disposed the Emporer Bao Dai. And, there were suggested in the book ?Dang Can Lao? (an illegal book in North/South during & after the war written by the Viet Minh leaders) that the American had dealing with the French just before the Geneva Convention.
Also see here:
1950 -- US Pledges $15M to Aid French
The United States sends $15 million dollars in military aid to the French for the war in Indochina. Included in the aid package is a military mission and military advisors.
1954 -- Eisenhower Cites "Domino Theory" Regarding Southeast Asia
Responding to the defeat of the French by the Vietminh at Dienbienphu, President Eisenhower outlines the Domino Theory: "You have a row of dominoes set up. You knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is the certainty that it will go over very quickly."
Geneva Convention Agreements Announced .
1955
Diem Becomes President of Republic of Vietnam
Diem defeats Bao Dai in rigged election and proclaims himself President of Republic of Vietnam. (Try Google to see who help Diem)
To offtopic:
The web you just provide could be a VC web page. I hope they don't put any spy code on web browser
Good for you If you can live outside of VN. What do you think When Vietnamese women for sale on ebay. And all Vietnamese amercain sent home 3 billions dollars per year to support their poor family. You keep telling people that south VN was a corrupt regime. That is why North VN use that title to remove them . Now They corrupt more than south Regime. You found that is oK ?? Don't you think there are a big conflict on your thought.
Again After you escape from VN for your own freedom. Don't you think to make other Vietnamese have their freedom. Don't be shame to be a selfish guy.
You know a lot of politic by the way you talk. But is a shame you can not define what is democratic. Communist never let another politic parties rule the country. People can not talk. That is not a democratic country.
Next time read some book or web from other people who is not communist . Different opinion will help you more . Like me, in the coutry , communist told me they shoot down B52 flight with there AK47. I believed them like you believe communist book right now.
I suprise that you live outside VN, but you still believe the earth is flat
The web you just provide could be a VC web page. I hope they don't put any spy code on web browser
Good for you If you can live outside of VN. What do you think When Vietnamese women for sale on ebay. And all Vietnamese amercain sent home 3 billions dollars per year to support their poor family. You keep telling people that south VN was a corrupt regime. That is why North VN use that title to remove them . Now They corrupt more than south Regime. You found that is oK ?? Don't you think there are a big conflict on your thought.
Again After you escape from VN for your own freedom. Don't you think to make other Vietnamese have their freedom. Don't be shame to be a selfish guy.
You know a lot of politic by the way you talk. But is a shame you can not define what is democratic. Communist never let another politic parties rule the country. People can not talk. That is not a democratic country.
Next time read some book or web from other people who is not communist . Different opinion will help you more . Like me, in the coutry , communist told me they shoot down B52 flight with there AK47. I believed them like you believe communist book right now.
I suprise that you live outside VN, but you still believe the earth is flat
Too bad the South Viet Namese Army rolled over like little bitches once our troops left despite having better weapons and arms than the NVA and the VC. One would think that if they really were fighting for their freedom they would have put up more resistence like the foes from the North, after all the NVA were fighting the most powerful army yet they never capitulated like the South did.
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I fought many times with the South Viet Namese army, Even helped with some of the training, I have all the respect in the world for them, They were not better armed than the North or China or the Soviets troops , They were fighting for there freedom, I better stop, If you were not there you could never understand, Even some that were there don't understand
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I fought many times with the South Viet Namese army, Even helped with some of the training, I have all the respect in the world for them, They were not better armed than the North or China or the Soviets troops , They were fighting for there freedom, I better stop, If you were not there you could never understand, Even some that were there don't understand
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
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Funny, those that I know who served alongside them had nothing but contempt for them. They said they couldn't be trusted and treated their own like sh!t. The ROK soldiers on the other hand were highly respected among those who served alongside them in Nam.
Well Red Dawn I was a combat soldier and I can just go by what I did and not what someone said. They had more to fight for and more to lose than we did, I trusted them with my life and they trusted me with theirs, What more can you say than that
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
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Just another opinion from someone who was there...just like those who had an opinion differing than yours. Yours is no more valid or invalid than theirs. Maybe they had different experiences with them than you did.
Still doesn't change the fact that as soon as we left they couldn't do much of anything to stop the Advancing NVA and VC from taking other the country. Maybe it was the corrupt S.Viet Namese Politicians of maybe is was an Army whose heart wasn't in the fight anymore.
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