You are looking at it the wrong way. There are plenty of municipalities/cities/boroughs that do not expressly ban some of these things discussed here e.g. cars up on blocks on a front lawn etc... When it is not handled at the municipal level, an HOA can make rules for its own area.
You are looking at it the wrong way. There are plenty of municipalities/cities/boroughs that do not expressly ban some of these things discussed here e.g. cars up on blocks on a front lawn etc... When it is not handled at the municipal level, an HOA can make rules for its own area.
MagnusTheBrewer
IN MEMORIAM
- Jun 19, 2004
- 24,122
- 1,594
- 126
Haven't you heard? "Nice " is defined by how much a group of like minded people are willing to pay for it. People don't 'live ' in hoa 's, they protect their investment. Want to really piss off hoa supporters? Go build something. It doesn't matter what. Someone will be along shortly to make sure you have all necessary permits, licenses, hoa approvals, aren't being too noisy, it's the right color, size, appropriate value and, don't even think about working on it at night.
Come on - how many stories do you hear a day? Do you understand the sense of scale in terms of the ~60 million Americans living in an HOA governed area?
What the fuck are you talking about? Most? What you suggest the majority do is not even legally possible:
And I recall an incident where a Canadian killed a man. So does that make all Canadians killers? People do stupid things in all kinds of areas. This does not make them proof of generalized facts or citations
Surely you realize that not all HOAs are the same and some are actually reasonable. Your 8.5' tall fence yellow with pink polkadots would be allowed by my HOA. My HOA really only exists to deal with common area maintenance, snow removal and mailbox maintenance. The township has more restrictions on grass height, fence height\construction, auxiliary buildings on property etc than the HOA does
Is that supposed to be an insult?
I'm pretty proud to be an individual.I want chickens, ducks, geese, goats, maybe a pig and cow. A huge garden. Fruit and nut trees. Beehives. A barn. A shop that has more square footage than my house.
And I'm damn glad that nobody can stop me. You can have your suburbia cookie cutter neighborhood where the house has more square footage than the land it's on. Blech.
It is true though - we are currently parking 2 of the 8 cars on the lawn. Maybe that's what you meant. Quick, call the HOA! Oh wait, I don't live in one... and I never will.
It's just grass. I'll resod when we move to a bigger place, hopefully with a much.. much bigger concrete pad.I'm sure that's true. The places we've been looking at are not HOA material, they're out in the country - so it just doesn't apply to us anyway. Naturally, it would depend on the specific rules I guess. I just don't like the idea in general.
I'm not sure why it's different than city/county/municipal codes in my mind.
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Mixolydian
Lifer
I can only speak about the way it is in my area. If you read through the municipal codes, pretty much every place has some basic standards for appearance.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
- 33,655
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They exist because people were tired of trashy neighbors who have no pride moving in, trashing their houses, letting their lawn grow 2 feet tall, lowering home owner values, etc. My HOA is basically in charge of the common areas and they really don't interfere with anyone as far as I can tell, even though there are a few cases where they should.
I challenge you to find a home exactly like mine in my neighborhood. You can't, because one doesn't exist. You guys really don't understand HOAs. You guys see a couple of bad stories and scream "Oh, the horror of it all!" while ignoring the thousands of HOAs that never generate a single issue.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
- 33,655
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Nice neighborhoods have a premium because the houses are taken care of and aren't falling apart. It just so happens that in many cases, those neighborhoods have HOAs. Funny how that works, isn't it? I think someone is a little jealous of what others have from the sound of your posts.
I "live" just fine, as do my neighbors. If people hated HOAs, they'd be gone quickly. Don't like them? Don't buy a house in one. The covenants are made available for you to read before you ever purchase a house in the neighborhood.
You're an absolute idiot if you DON'T try to protect your investment. It doesn't matter where you live -- if you have neighborhood where people let their lawns grow 2 feet high, have their yard full of junkers, appliances, etc, and their houses haven't been painted in 20 or 30 years, it is going to negatively affect you. Maybe *you* can throw away money like that, but those of us who are much wiser than you with our finances prefer not to.
Uh, displaying permits and licenses are rules set by municipalities, not an HOA. The town I live in requires building permits be prominently displayed and records of all permits be on hand for items requiring them. Are you going to start screaming "OMG!!!1!!!11!!! I CAN'T LIVE THERE EITHER!!!!"
A couple of years ago, I put in a 1000+ sq. ft paver patio and hot tub. Want to guess how much interaction I had with my HOA?
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Call the city or in some cases the county. If the city\county doesnt know then nothing gets done. One of my neighbors left this house. After a month of not mowing the yard I called the city. They attempted to contacted him. Then started mowing the yard and attaching the cost to the property.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
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Yeah, my last house was within the boundaries of a small town and in my neighborhood, we had a guy who refused to mow his lawn. The lawn was 12" to 18" high and he had weeds that were two or three feet tall. It was inexcusable because he had several kids, many of which were old enough to mow the lawn. I got fed up and called the town and lo and behold, he was out and mowing his lawn a couple of days later. Once the Habitat for Humanity homes were built on the remaining vacant lots, it was game over and I got out just in time.
Also, back to the earlier discussion -- you guys saying "I should be able to do whatever I want!!!" are the selfish ones. You have a responsibility to your neighbors to keep your house and yard in good condition. If you're too damn lazy to do that, rent an apartment or buy a condo and have someone else do it for you. Can't afford to have someone do it for you or to pay the monthly maintenance on a condo? Too damn bad -- stay in an apartment then.
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Sho'Nuff
Diamond Member
- Jul 12, 2007
- 6,211
- 121
- 106
What do the HOA bylaws say on the matter? Most include some clause re: home based businesses. Reasonable ones indicate that home businesses and signage are ok as long as the traffic/etc. doesn't muck up the neighborhood. Unreasonable ones ban commercial activities out of the home.
HOA's don't make up the rules, the builder uses boilerplate legal docs that essentially give them total control until the last unit is sold, then a board is elected, but it takes 75% of all owners to change the CC&R's, so usually only items required by changes in the law get changed.
Cities ALWAYS want their cut, which means you pay for a business license and get subject to a bunch of pesky rules. One I recall is the max sq ft in your garage you can use for storage.
Bottom line, stay under everybody's radar. Keep your garage door closed, and disguise anything that looks like business for the times when the door is open. Don't say a word about it to anybody, admit nothing, deny everything, and be prepared to Plan B.
Pay the money and get a PO box someplace, you want NOTHING tying your home address to any business activity. Incoming packages from vendors should be ok, but you don't want ebay and/or paypal connected to the home address. Stygma against a PO Box can sometimes be bypassed by saying unit 1563 instead of PO Box 1563 etc.
Cities ALWAYS want their cut, which means you pay for a business license and get subject to a bunch of pesky rules. One I recall is the max sq ft in your garage you can use for storage.
Bottom line, stay under everybody's radar. Keep your garage door closed, and disguise anything that looks like business for the times when the door is open. Don't say a word about it to anybody, admit nothing, deny everything, and be prepared to Plan B.
Pay the money and get a PO box someplace, you want NOTHING tying your home address to any business activity. Incoming packages from vendors should be ok, but you don't want ebay and/or paypal connected to the home address. Stygma against a PO Box can sometimes be bypassed by saying unit 1563 instead of PO Box 1563 etc.
Agree. It is disrespectful. Two scenarios come to mind that I have had experience with. Girlfriend's parents live near us and someone on that street decided to paint their house the most ridiculous color. It is not even tasteful. The trim doesnt even match with the house color, shingles, window shades or with anything else. Wish I had a picture, but the owners look like they just chose the most random color and splashed it all over their house. This is after having it painted "primer" for a few months did they choose this color.
Sure, we could go over and complain but we have no legal leg to stand on. And for what, to make enemies with neighbors? Sure it might suck that they chose this color but I honestly don't know what we can do about it. My gf is a realtor every time she shows a house on that street, she chooses to take the perspective buyers to the house via another street so they wont have to pass in front of the eyesore.
The second situation is someone who lived right across the street from us. Same as you, never maintained his lawn, let it grow to unimaginable heights, gutters falling off of the roof, badly in need of a paint job etc etc... He also worked on his truck when he was home and there were always parts, tool chests, tire rims, kids toys and all kinds of junk strewn everywhere. His next door neighbor got so fed up with it that he himself one day went over and offered to help the guy mow his lawn. The guy refused any help. A day later, his son, according to our neighbor accepted the offer for help out of embarrassment, and the lawn was cut. In 3 weeks it was back to sky high again.
The guy ended up moving out because his home was foreclosed. The POS left a dog at the house that nearly died, abandoned it with some food and a bowl of water inside the premise. We found out when we saw animal control there. The house was repossessed by the bank and the guy tried to come back to gather some belongings. We all hated this guy so much that we called the police and reported the trespassing every time we saw him try to get more of his junk out of the house.
My two examples point out how much control you ultimately have over the actions and cleanliness/maintenance habits of your neighbors. Even if you try talking to somebody, your offers of help or suggestions on how to clean up will not be accepted. Even if the town has an ordinance about lawn height for instance; a lawn needs to be mowed every week. By the time the town takes action, the lawn is several weeks/months past mowing. Sure it will get mowed but it will take another month for the town to act yet again.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
- 33,655
- 688
- 126
Agree. It is disrespectful. Two scenarios come to mind that I have had experience with. Girlfriend's parents live near us and someone on that street decided to paint their house the most ridiculous color. It is not even tasteful. The trim doesnt even match with the house color, shingles, window shades or with anything else. Wish I had a picture, but the owners look like they just chose the most random color and splashed it all over their house. This is after having it painted "primer" for a few months did they choose this color.
Sure, we could go over and complain but we have no legal leg to stand on. And for what, to make enemies with neighbors? Sure it might suck that they chose this color but I honestly don't know what we can do about it. My gf is a realtor every time she shows a house on that street, she chooses to take the perspective buyers to the house via another street so they wont have to pass in front of the eyesore.
The second situation is someone who lived right across the street from us. Same as you, never maintained his lawn, let it grow to unimaginable heights, gutters falling off of the roof, badly in need of a paint job etc etc... He also worked on his truck when he was home and there were always parts, tool chests, tire rims, kids toys and all kinds of junk strewn everywhere. His next door neighbor got so fed up with it that he himself one day went over and offered to help the guy mow his lawn. The guy refused any help. A day later, his son, according to our neighbor accepted the offer for help out of embarrassment, and the lawn was cut. In 3 weeks it was back to sky high again.
The guy ended up moving out because his home was foreclosed. The POS left a dog at the house that nearly died, abandoned it with some food and a bowl of water inside the premise. We found out when we saw animal control there. The house was repossessed by the bank and the guy tried to come back to gather some belongings. We all hated this guy so much that we called the police and reported the trespassing every time we saw him try to get more of his junk out of the house.
My two examples point out how much control you ultimately have over the actions and cleanliness/maintenance habits of your neighbors. Even if you try talking to somebody, your offers of help or suggestions on how to clean up will not be accepted. Even if the town has an ordinance about lawn height for instance; a lawn needs to be mowed every week. By the time the town takes action, the lawn is several weeks/months past mowing. Sure it will get mowed but it will take another month for the town to act yet again.
Yeah, my in-laws decided to move 3 years ago after living in their home for 35 years or so. They were in a little cul de sac outside of the town limits and had no HOA. Anyway, a year or two before they decided to sell, some trashy people with a bunch of kids moved in across the street. As you can imagine, the kids were allowed to do as they please all over the street and toys were EVERYWHERE - the middle of the street, all over their yard, etc. The lawn would get 12" to 18" high regularly. My in-laws would talk to them and it did no good and they would just get blank stares and those fools acted like my father-in-law was from Mars or something. Finally, when it came time to sell the house, my FIL had enough. He jumped on his lawn mower and went over and mowed the yard himself. In the bad housing market of 2010, you simply could NOT afford to have neighbors like that ruin your chances of selling.
That's what the folks in this thread are missing. Are there HOAs that go overboard? Absolutely. Most, however, do not and are only looking out to maintain a safe, clean neighborhood for their families and neighbors. My HOA just reminds people to keep their grass cut and houses painted, and that's it. When I see people scream "I want to do what I want!!!", those are the type of people I wouldn't ever want to live next to because they're likely the types that leave Christmas decorations in their yard until March, don't keep their lawns mowed, have their cars up on blocks in their driveway, etc.
Anubis
No Lifer
i leave the fake wreath on my gerrage up all year
aside from that my house is one of the best looking and maintained ones in town, and ill never live in a place with a HOA because fuck them i do what i want
aside from that my house is one of the best looking and maintained ones in town, and ill never live in a place with a HOA because fuck them i do what i want
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
- 33,655
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i leave the fake wreath on my gerrage up all year
Do you leave 40 deer/santa/snowmen ornaments blowing around on your lawn until March too?
Anubis
No Lifer
no f those things, i dont even own them. I made my own wooden deer that i dont alwas put out. lights stay up till the middle of jan and then i bring them in, or just unplug them and leave them there until its not sub zero out, but you cant notice them if they are off
spacejamz
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 10,971
- 1,679
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Are they holding your dog and /or child hostage? There's no such thing as an "awesome " hoa.
Why? have you lived in every HOA to make that determination? I have lived in my current subdivision for 11 years and our HOA is awesome...Granted our subdivision is about 100 homes...They take care of all the common ground landscaping and fencing...we don't have a pool (or pool maintenance costs) so it costs $20/month. Outside of the annual HOA meetings and payment reminders, I haven't heard a peep from them since I have been here.
Just because there are bad HOA's out there doesn't mean that everything one of them sucks but I guess it is cool around here to bag on them (kinda like hating apple and torrenting movies)...
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
- 33,655
- 688
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Nothing is wrong with any of that. My neighbor, however, leaves his 40+ Christmas yard ornaments out until February or March. I'm embarrassed for him. :awe:
To be fair, there are so many people here with xmas decorations still out (NH) We've had so much snow that removal has been near impossible. Only now has the snow begun to melt and whatever decorations that were put out in December were buried; they are just starting to show again. Of course we are supposed to get another 12-18 inches this week.
Christmas decorations are not a reliable test in this case. Usually the people you are complaining about also leave kids toys, tools and the occasional appliance on the front lawn.
Bingo... There is a difference between putting commercial signage up and having customers show up to your door. Perfectly legit to receive packages or even have some picked up as Fedex, UPS and USPS all do.
Red Squirrel
No Lifer
Here most Christmas decorations stay up till June/July, or whenever it's easy to get to them. I can't imagine that flying in a HOA region.
Heck, some people still TURN ON the Christmas lights.
Heck, some people still TURN ON the Christmas lights.
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