Question: HOAs dealing with home based business...

[88keys]

I'd like to also point out that HOAs are sometimes the driving force behind property development and real estate investment. Your example holds particularly true. There are some backwards areas around me; sleepy towns that can be described as redneck or hillbilly in nature. Some of these towns have no such ordinances or laws regarding property appearances, grass height, existence of businesses on residential property etc etc etc...

Areas such as these will never get any serious development because the ROI is risky. If you have a neighborhood where chickens run free or cars and parts can accumulate on a front lawn, what builder is going to risk his time and $$$ to build there? Sure you may get a few isolated builders but probably not much activity.

Instead, a builder purchases land, builds a bunch of condos/townhouses and creates an HOA governing these properties; that creates the type of authority to enforce rules that just don't exist at the municipal level. You may be able to raise chickens and works on cars on any property in town. But in the condo development, it is forbidden by HOA rules.

I would think (hope) that most people in HOAs would have similar standards. But then again, there are always people who have to fuck it up for everyone else.

Yeah where I live the lease prohibits working on cars in the property, but the reality is that the LL doesn't give a shit about people doing an oil change or fixing their brakes (simple stuff). What he doesn't want are people rebuilding an engine or replacing a transmission.
It's hard to write a lease that would legally separate the two situations without getting fuzzy so it's just easier to write a blanket rule.
The people who live here know this, and almost nobody works on their cars so it's not a big deal. And the people who do work on their cars seem to have enough common sense to not fuck it up for everyone else.

However I find that rules like this tend to exist in 'nicer' areas where people are wealthier and aren't fooling around older cars that typically need more maintenance, so I suspect it's kinda moot no matter how you look at it.

 

[NetWareHead]

Are you making a home or leveraging an investment? They are mutually exclusive unless you're a corporate drone.

They could be both. Homeowners (if they like that sort of living) can enjoy a cookie cutter neighborhood and none of the aforementioned property detractions. Investors can enjoy property maintenance and can count on the HOA to enforce rules for their tenants that they do't have to.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

They could be both. Homeowners (if they like that sort of living) can enjoy a cookie cutter neighborhood and none of the aforementioned property detractions. Investors can enjoy property maintenance and can count on the HOA to enforce rules for their tenants that they do't have to.

Like I said, clean streets and never having to talk to your neighbors. The whole mindset is deeply flawed and being around, let alone living with, people who are attracted to hoa 's whether as homeowners or investors is abhorrent. Life is not based on investment principles and business should be a reflection of life.

 

[NetWareHead]

Like I said, clean streets and never having to talk to your neighbors. The whole mindset is deeply flawed and being around, let alone living with, people who are attracted to hoa 's whether as homeowners or investors is abhorrent. Life is not based on investment principles and business should be a reflection of life.

I can agree with you from a homeowner's perspective. I also think you should talk to neighbors and have a real community sense. But what wrong with an HOA from an investment perspective? For instance I own a property that is out of state and the HOA cuts the lawn, landscapes, trash, water, sewer and does all maintenance to the structure. There are some rules I'd rather have the HOA enforce and contest with the instead of me. They have a lawyer on retainer and I dont.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I can agree with you from a homeowner's perspective. I also think you should talk to neighbors and have a real community sense. But what wrong with an HOA from an investment perspective? For instance I own a property that is out of state and the HOA cuts the lawn, landscapes, trash, water, sewer and does all maintenance to the structure. There are some rules I'd rather have the HOA enforce and contest with the instead of me. They have a lawyer on retainer and I dont.

I would argue that being an out of State landlord /homeowner is irresponsible because no two communities are alike even in the same State and managing property that directly affects housing and safety of tenants through factors blindly following policy is piss poor management.

 

[Exterous]

It's bad enough that the municipality can tell you what you can or not do, but at least they are usually not as strict as HOAs

Citation needed

Not all HOAs are bad and I am not aware of any studies showing the percentages one way or the other yet people continue to make uninformed generalizations

 

[Red Squirrel]

Citation needed

Not all HOAs are bad and I am not aware of any studies showing the percentages one way or the other yet people continue to make uninformed generalizations

Watch the news, there's your citation. Most HOAs don't even allow flags. I recall an incident where a war vet has a US flag and was asked to take it down but refused. I forget exactly what happened but think he ended up having to take it down or face legal charges.

I recall another incident where someone was asked to tear down their shed because it was the wrong shade of color. Stupid shit like that. If you want to live in a cookie cutter place, all the power to you, but I like to live somewhere where I don't have to make everything look the same.

 

[Jumpem]

It is doable if you don't draw attention to yourself.

A local computer shop (http://www.jncs.com/index.php) that I used to buy from fifteen to twenty years ago before Newegg was started was run out of his basement at the time.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I shake my head over the fact that so many are willing to spend big bucks and give up significant freedoms in return for clean streets and never having to talk to your neighbors. I'll stick to the poor end of town where housing decisions are discussed and enforced by people who all know one another and willing to look out for someone else's place, thanks.

"Big bucks?" My $75/yr contribution is meaningless.

Many of the rules are made because some people lack common sense and would trash their home and reduce property values in their neighborhood. Sure, some HOAs obviously go way overboard, but for every instance you hear of them going overboard there are probably a dozen instances of them doing the right thing.

Like I said, clean streets and never having to talk to your neighbors. The whole mindset is deeply flawed and being around, let alone living with, people who are attracted to hoa 's whether as homeowners or investors is abhorrent. Life is not based on investment principles and business should be a reflection of life.

The best properties are often in neighborhoods with HOAs. That's just a fact.

Also regarding the investment comment -- have you ever owned a home? A simple yes/no will be sufficient.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Though, what I would like is a system where you truly own your property and can do 100% what you want, but that's nonexistant these days, sadly. Though I guess farm land is probably the closest thing to that. I think it's more lenient than high density residential areas.

You say that now, but wait until you have a trashy neighbor move in and trash their property, which definitely affects your property value and ability to sell. Someone like MagnusTheBrewer would walk over, talk to the neighbor, and when the neighbor told him to fuck off and leave him alone, that's the end of the discussion and you can't do a damn thing about it.

There is a home out by my mother's house that is a perfect example. I remember when it was built, probably around 20 years ago -- it was beautiful and had a nice yard surround by fields for hundreds of yards. Obviously those people moved and trashy hilljacks moved in. Now, the yard is littered with junked up cars, lawn equipment, appliances, etc. and the house looks like crap with plastic drop cloths covering the wraparound porch. There is no way on earth I'd buy a home next to someone trashy like that and I want to be able to prevent someone like that from moving in next to me. People like that shouldn't own a home if they can't take care of it.

When I bought my first starter home, it was in a small neighborhood where the developer had gone bankrupt and a few lots were left vacant. My home was really nice and was among the nicest on the street and the neighbors were all great people. Then it happened -- the company who owned the remaining lots sold them to Habitat for Humanity. I was concerned that this would result in homes which wouldn't be taken care of and that it would hurt all of us. People told me I was being "mean" and that wouldn't happen at all. Want to guess who was right? That's a big part of the reason why I moved.

 

[alkemyst]

It is doable if you don't draw attention to yourself.

A local computer shop (http://www.jncs.com/index.php) that I used to buy from fifteen to twenty years ago before Newegg was started was run out of his basement at the time.

15-20 years ago and a company running out of a basement is a lot different than now.

 

[alkemyst]

"Big bucks?" My $75/yr contribution is meaningless.

Many of the rules are made because some people lack common sense and would trash their home and reduce property values in their neighborhood. Sure, some HOAs obviously go way overboard, but for every instance you hear of them going overboard there are probably a dozen instances of them doing the right thing.



The best properties are often in neighborhoods with HOAs. That's just a fact.

Also regarding the investment comment -- have you ever owned a home? A simple yes/no will be sufficient.

At $75 a year you don't really live in an HOA.

 

[Mixolydian]

You say that now, but wait until you have a trashy neighbor move in and trash their property, which definitely affects your property value and ability to sell. Someone like MagnusTheBrewer would walk over, talk to the neighbor, and when the neighbor told him to fuck off and leave him alone, that's the end of the discussion and you can't do a damn thing about it.

There is a home out by my mother's house that is a perfect example. I remember when it was built, probably around 20 years ago -- it was beautiful and had a nice yard surround by fields for hundreds of yards. Obviously those people moved and trashy hilljacks moved in. Now, the yard is littered with junked up cars, lawn equipment, appliances, etc. and the house looks like crap with plastic drop cloths covering the wraparound porch. There is no way on earth I'd buy a home next to someone trashy like that and I want to be able to prevent someone like that from moving in next to me. People like that shouldn't own a home if they can't take care of it.

When I bought my first starter home, it was in a small neighborhood where the developer had gone bankrupt and a few lots were left vacant. My home was really nice and was among the nicest on the street and the neighbors were all great people. Then it happened -- the company who owned the remaining lots sold them to Habitat for Humanity. I was concerned that this would result in homes which wouldn't be taken care of and that it would hurt all of us. People told me I was being "mean" and that wouldn't happen at all. Want to guess who was right? That's a big part of the reason why I moved.

Most municipalities have codes and ordinances which cover things like that. Now here near as invasive as an HOA but there's still a safety net there.

Would never live in an HOA, especially with existing municipal ordinances.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

At $75 a year you don't really live in an HOA.

Uh, yes, I do. That was a pretty silly thing to say.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Most municipalities have codes and ordinances which cover things like that. Now here near as invasive as an HOA but there's still a safety net there.

Which is great -- if you live within the borders of the municipality, that is.

 

[Mixolydian]

Which is great -- if you live within the borders of the municipality, that is.

I guess it depends on the area in which a person lives. Around here, there are very few, if any, "unincorporated" areas - you're always going to be part of some municipality.

 

[Jumpem]

Most municipalities have codes and ordinances which cover things like that. Now here near as invasive as an HOA but there's still a safety net there.

Would never live in an HOA, especially with existing municipal ordinances.

Municipal ordinances don't do much to protect you from neighbors that don't maintain their property. I would not want to live outside of an HOA again.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

"Big bucks?" My $75/yr contribution is meaningless.

Many of the rules are made because some people lack common sense and would trash their home and reduce property values in their neighborhood. Sure, some HOAs obviously go way overboard, but for every instance you hear of them going overboard there are probably a dozen instances of them doing the right thing.



The best properties are often in neighborhoods with HOAs. That's just a fact.

Also regarding the investment comment -- have you ever owned a home? A simple yes/no will be sufficient.

First, you've spent more than $75 a year because your home cost more than a comparable home in the same city due to the hoa. Why do I think what you mean by "best neighborhood " is one where houses sell for the most? It's all right, bean counters, shysters, IRS agents and, used car salesmen have to live somewhere I guess. Finally yes, I do own my own home and would never even consider living in or investing in a home controlled by an hoa.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

How would they know and why would they care how many times UPS/FedEx delivers? I buy shit from Amazon every few days so they'd be in the neighborhood all the time. Butttt YMMV.

 

[Red Squirrel]

You say that now, but wait until you have a trashy neighbor move in and trash their property, which definitely affects your property value and ability to sell. Someone like MagnusTheBrewer would walk over, talk to the neighbor, and when the neighbor told him to fuck off and leave him alone, that's the end of the discussion and you can't do a damn thing about it.

There is a home out by my mother's house that is a perfect example. I remember when it was built, probably around 20 years ago -- it was beautiful and had a nice yard surround by fields for hundreds of yards. Obviously those people moved and trashy hilljacks moved in. Now, the yard is littered with junked up cars, lawn equipment, appliances, etc. and the house looks like crap with plastic drop cloths covering the wraparound porch. There is no way on earth I'd buy a home next to someone trashy like that and I want to be able to prevent someone like that from moving in next to me. People like that shouldn't own a home if they can't take care of it.

When I bought my first starter home, it was in a small neighborhood where the developer had gone bankrupt and a few lots were left vacant. My home was really nice and was among the nicest on the street and the neighbors were all great people. Then it happened -- the company who owned the remaining lots sold them to Habitat for Humanity. I was concerned that this would result in homes which wouldn't be taken care of and that it would hurt all of us. People told me I was being "mean" and that wouldn't happen at all. Want to guess who was right? That's a big part of the reason why I moved.

Honestly I would not care that much. Yeah it would maybe be annoying, but I rather live in a place where I know I can get away with almost anything, than a place where something as simple as a flag or a garden or color I chose to paint my house becomes a huge legal issue and I have to remove or change it. They should have the freedom to keep trash in their yard if they really want to and I should have the freedom to build a fence if it really bothers me. Now if something is affecting other properties such as fluids leaking from cars, or smells, then perhaps that should be dealt with on a case per case basis.

 

[Mixolydian]

Municipal ordinances don't do much to protect you from neighbors that don't maintain their property.

Uh yes they do. If a neighbor decided to scatter trash all over the yard, that would absolutely be a violation of municipal ordinance(s).

 

[IndyColtsFan]

First, you've spent more than $75 a year because your home cost more than a comparable home in the same city due to the hoa. Why do I think what you mean by "best neighborhood " is one where houses sell for the most? It's all right, bean counters, shysters, IRS agents and, used car salesmen have to live somewhere I guess. Finally yes, I do own my own home and would never even consider living in or investing in a home controlled by an hoa.

Lol, "controlled" by an HOA - deluded ATOTer confirmed.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Haven't there been occasions where you're pretty much forced into a HOA by local vote?

 

[Eli]

I still find it appalling that anyone would support an HOA. Never, ever.. ever. I would be one of those people that build my fence 8.5' tall and paint it yellow and pink polkadots, just to spite your desire for such inane things to not exist.

I'm all for having nice things, but I don't want my neighbors all up in my business and I don't care about my neighbors business. Simple as that. If my neighbors don't want to have nice things, that is their choice. Who am I to stop them? I'm going to force them to have nice things? What if they consider their things to be plenty nice?

Really bizarre that such a thing even exists in America, "land of the free".

But whatever floats your boat I guess. Personally, I don't want my home to look exactly like yours.

As for the OP, I can't imagine it being a problem, but like others have said.. if someone doesn't like you, they will make it a problem, you can guarantee it. If FedEx and UPS trucks are going to be the biggest consequence of your actions though, I can't imagine that causing problems in even the snobbiest of HOAs.

 

[Jumpem]

Uh yes they do. If a neighbor decided to scatter trash all over the yard, that would absolutely be a violation of municipal ordinance(s).

I have had a neighbor before with overgrown grass, junk cars in the driveway, garbage bags piled on the porch, and junk and garbage scattered around the driveway. Nothing was ever done about it.