Question: HOAs dealing with home based business...

[JMapleton]

I have a friend who is looking to start an eBay business. They plan to have the product shipped to their house, stored in their garage in a warehouse configuration, and then package it and drive the orders daily to the post office to be mailed.

They want to do this in California. I know a lot of nicer neighborhoods in CA ($500k - $1m) have HOAs that restrict everything you do. Where I'm at, we don't have this problem. But this would be in southern CA and possibly in a gated community.

For you CA ATOTers in newer neighborhoods, do you think this would be a problem in CA?

They would likely get a FedEx or UPS delivery maybe once a day. They're not getting freight trucks with dozens of shipments daily, just maybe one or two boxes a day.

How could the HOA even find out about this? They would never be noticed. The products would be stored in their garage and loaded into the back of an SUV in the garage and driven to the post office daily.

Thoughts?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

The hoa WILL notice because hoa 's are full of people with nothing better to do than be on the lookout for people violating the rules. If there isn't a rule against it, you can be sure one will be written and passed as soon as they're aware.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

He can just tell them that he shops a lot online. He could also schedule UPS to deliver maybe 3 or 2 times a week instead of 5.

 

[Slew Foot]

I operate a trading card business out of my garage in an upscale gated community with an HOA in San Jose. No one cares, but my street/HOA is pretty awesome, YMMV. I get a UPS delivery about 3-4 times a week, but around here everyone does their shopping online so delivery trucks are all over.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I operate a trading card business out of my garage in an upscale gated community with an HOA in San Jose. No one cares, but my street/HOA is pretty awesome, YMMV. I get a UPS delivery about 3-4 times a week, but around here everyone does their shopping online so delivery trucks are all over.

Are they holding your dog and /or child hostage? There's no such thing as an "awesome " hoa. 😵

 

[Exterous]

I operate a trading card business out of my garage in an upscale gated community with an HOA in San Jose. No one cares, but my street/HOA is pretty awesome, YMMV. I get a UPS delivery about 3-4 times a week, but around here everyone does their shopping online so delivery trucks are all over.

Yeah - its not unusual for me to see Fedex or UPS trucks daily in our sub. Our HOA wouldn't care but YMMV

 

[NetWareHead]

I have a friend who is looking to start an eBay business. They plan to have the product shipped to their house, stored in their garage in a warehouse configuration, and then package it and drive the orders daily to the post office to be mailed.

They want to do this in California. I know a lot of nicer neighborhoods in CA ($500k - $1m) have HOAs that restrict everything you do. Where I'm at, we don't have this problem. But this would be in southern CA and possibly in a gated community.

For you CA ATOTers in newer neighborhoods, do you think this would be a problem in CA?

They would likely get a FedEx or UPS delivery maybe once a day. They're not getting freight trucks with dozens of shipments daily, just maybe one or two boxes a day.

How could the HOA even find out about this? They would never be noticed. The products would be stored in their garage and loaded into the back of an SUV in the garage and driven to the post office daily.

Thoughts?

I'd keep your mouth shut and say nothing to the HOA. Why draw attention to yourself and bring about a possible investigation?

That being said, if your HOA has rules that prevent operating a business from home, the inttention of that rule is to prevent someone from interfering with the peace and quiet of the neighborhood. Someone with customers regularly coming and going may fall into that territory. Someone with delivery trucks coming and going blends in with other neighbors who are merely doing online shopping. I'd say you could get away with this but keep your head down and dont attract any attention.

 

[techs]

The hoa WILL notice because hoa 's are full of people with nothing better to do than be on the lookout for people violating the rules. If there isn't a rule against it, you can be sure one will be written and passed as soon as they're aware.

This. I think nosy people are attracted to HOA's just for this reason

 

[stargazr]

If it becomes a problem, he could rent a box at a local UPS Store, and use that address for all shipments.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Well, some map programs will show businesses in neighborhoods. I know Google Maps does, but I do not know how thorough or accurate they are, and I certainly do not know what the HOA's do this or if they are even going that far.

But there is another question/concern. If this is a LEGAL business then they would need to have a business license through their local municipality (county), and when the issuing office determines it is a residential address they might restrict the nature of the business in terms of commercial (non-resident) traffic flow, parking, etc.

BTW, Can't be much of a business if they cannot afford a POB for a business address and a U-Stor-It storage to use instead of their garage.

 

[shabby]

I'd keep your mouth shut and say nothing to the HOA. Why draw attention to yourself and bring about a possible investigation?

As if you're doing anything illegal... anyway im glad there's no such thing as hoa around me.

 

[alkemyst]

The fact is part of anyone's mortgage in an HOA is the by laws. That said home-based businesses are also controlled by the local zoning as well. In my area, certain businesses are not allowed to be run from homes while others are even if they don't change the way the property looks from the outside.

 

[88keys]

HOAs and all things alike basically combine all of the disadvantages of home ownership along with the disadvantages of leasing.

I know someone who owns a condo, and the drama he puts up with because shit like that would drive me insane.
They won't even allow DirecTV or Dish.

And yes, they are full of busy bodies. You can try it, but chances are people will notice and figure out what you're doing.

 

[JMapleton]

They won't even allow DirecTV or Dish.

For real though, all those dishes on balconies look tacky. I don't blame them for that one.

 

[JMapleton]

If this is a LEGAL business then they would need to have a business license through their local municipality (county), and when the issuing office determines it is a residential address they might restrict the nature of the business in terms of commercial (non-resident) traffic flow, parking, etc.

If I'm not mistaken, and it may vary from different parts of the country. You only need a business license for certain types of businesses. Correct?

 

[NetWareHead]

HOAs and all things alike basically combine all of the disadvantages of home ownership along with the disadvantages of leasing.

I know someone who owns a condo, and the drama he puts up with because shit like that would drive me insane.
They won't even allow DirecTV or Dish.

And yes, they are full of busy bodies. You can try it, but chances are people will notice and figure out what you're doing.

Its funny all of the budding hate for HOAs here. Lest we forget that the homeowner in your example willingly purchased a house in such a community and signed an agreement to be governed by the HOA laws. Most HOAs have opportunities for homeowners to participate, voice their opinions and even change the by-laws. Hell some HOAs can even be dissolved upon vote.

Not to single you out but what you said is representative of alot of the complaints I've heard about HOAs.

Anyway, my own personal experience is that the HOA that governs a condo I own has 98% been a truly positive experience. I get voting rights and they are not out of line or intrusive with their bylaws. They even agreed when I complained about a neighbor leaving his junk in a common area and made the neighbor clean it up.

 

[KeithP]

I know someone who owns a condo, and the drama he puts up with because shit like that would drive me insane. They won't even allow DirecTV or Dish.

Then they are operating illegally and can be forced to allow the sat dish. http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-reception-devices-rule

I would think a bigger problem might be vehicle parking. If your garage use forces your vehicles permanently outside, he might have a problem.

But why speculate? If he is looking to buy a place check the CC&Rs and if he is already leaving in such a community, well, check the CC&Rs.

-KeithP

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Are they holding your dog and /or child hostage? There's no such thing as an "awesome " hoa. 😵

Ah, another drinking the "ALL HOAs ARE EVIL!" Kool Aid.

My HOA is pretty cool and if anything, not nearly restrictive enough. You have lazy jackasses that have the energy to decorate their houses for Christmas and put 40 things in their yard, but these idiots don't bother pulling them down until MARCH. It is tacky and trashy. The HOA does nothing about it, though they should. If I were selling a house next to someone like that, I'd be pretty pissed.

OP, I doubt they'd have a problem.

 

[Markbnj]

I've never lived in an HOA-regulated community, but if all the activity is contained within your walls, there is no exterior evidence of commercial activity, and the impact is limited to the UPS guys showing up a few times a week, I don't see what anyone has to complain about.

But I would still keep my mouth shut about it.

 

[NetWareHead]

Then they are operating illegally and can be forced to allow the sat dish. http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-reception-devices-rule

As a landlord I also run into this and the ruling by the FCC is that the tenant has the right to install a dish in an "exclusive use" area aka balcony, porch etc... The dish cannot venture out of the exclusive use area. Sides of the structure, roofs, and backyard are not exclusive use.

I also think they look tacky when installed on the sides of houses and thats all you see when cruising up the street is clusters upon clusters of satelite dishes.

My main issue with them being installed are the sloppy manner in which the cable installers do it. Even if the tenant installs it in a porch that is an exclusive area, they will need a cable penetration to run the cable to the inside of the structure. Cable penetrations through walls are not covered by the FCC ruling.

An HOA can find plenty of ways to discourage and stop satellite dishes without banning them and running contrary to the law.

 

[88keys]

Its funny all of the budding hate for HOAs here. Lest we forget that the homeowner in your example willingly purchased a house in such a community and signed an agreement to be governed by the HOA laws. Most HOAs have opportunities for homeowners to participate, voice their opinions and even change the by-laws. Hell some HOAs can even be dissolved upon vote.

Not to single you out but what you said is representative of alot of the complaints I've heard about HOAs.

Yes, but I find that complacency is far too common in these types of situations and you end up being run by assholes.
It's the reason that I would never consider owning property under such an agreement, no matter how good it sounds.

Anyway, my own personal experience is that the HOA that governs a condo I own has 98% been a truly positive experience. I get voting rights and they are not out of line or intrusive with their bylaws. They even agreed when I complained about a neighbor leaving his junk in a common area and made the neighbor clean it up.

That's true and I'm sure that there are benefits like when dealing with asshole neighbours.

Alot of Pennsylvania is very thin on laws in regards to property maintenance other than keeping your grass cut and sidewalks clear.
There was a guy who had a mini junkyard on his property. He had 5 or 6 broke down cars in the back yard and 2 or 3 in the front. People complained, but the township had no rules against it.

Eventually fluids leaking from the cars cased damage to neighboring property at which point I think the State or someone higher stepped in and slapped him with a huge fine. The cars were removed shortly after.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Ah, another drinking the "ALL HOAs ARE EVIL!" Kool Aid.

My HOA is pretty cool and if anything, not nearly restrictive enough. You have lazy jackasses that have the energy to decorate their houses for Christmas and put 40 things in their yard, but these idiots don't bother pulling them down until MARCH. It is tacky and trashy. The HOA does nothing about it, though they should. If I were selling a house next to someone like that, I'd be pretty pissed.

OP, I doubt they'd have a problem.

I shake my head over the fact that so many are willing to spend big bucks and give up significant freedoms in return for clean streets and never having to talk to your neighbors. I'll stick to the poor end of town where housing decisions are discussed and enforced by people who all know one another and willing to look out for someone else's place, thanks.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I shake my head over the fact that so many are willing to spend big bucks and give up significant freedoms in return for clean streets and never having to talk to your neighbors. I'll stick to the poor end of town where housing decisions are discussed and enforced by people who all know one another and willing to look out for someone else's place, thanks.

This. It's bad enough that the municipality can tell you what you can or not do, but at least they are usually not as strict as HOAs who can tell you what color you can and can't use, and if a certain type of tree can be planted and where etc...

Though, what I would like is a system where you truly own your property and can do 100% what you want, but that's nonexistant these days, sadly. Though I guess farm land is probably the closest thing to that. I think it's more lenient than high density residential areas.

 

[NetWareHead]

There was a guy who had a mini junkyard on his property. He had 5 or 6 broke down cars in the back yard and 2 or 3 in the front. People complained, but the township had no rules against it.

Eventually fluids leaking from the cars cased damage to neighboring property at which point I think the State or someone higher stepped in and slapped him with a huge fine. The cars were removed shortly after.

I'd like to also point out that HOAs are sometimes the driving force behind property development and real estate investment. Your example holds particularly true. There are some backwards areas around me; sleepy towns that can be described as redneck or hillbilly in nature. Some of these towns have no such ordinances or laws regarding property appearances, grass height, existence of businesses on residential property etc etc etc...

Areas such as these will never get any serious development because the ROI is risky. If you have a neighborhood where chickens run free or cars and parts can accumulate on a front lawn, what builder is going to risk his time and $$$ to build there? Sure you may get a few isolated builders but probably not much activity.

Instead, a builder purchases land, builds a bunch of condos/townhouses and creates an HOA governing these properties; that creates the type of authority to enforce rules that just don't exist at the municipal level. You may be able to raise chickens and works on cars on any property in town. But in the condo development, it is forbidden by HOA rules.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I'd like to also point out that HOAs are sometimes the driving force behind property development and real estate investment. Your example holds particularly true. There are some backwards areas around me; sleepy towns that can be described as redneck or hillbilly in nature. Some of these towns have no such ordinances or laws regarding property appearances, grass height, existence of businesses on residential property etc etc etc...

Areas such as these will never get any serious development because the ROI is risky. If you have a neighborhood where chickens run free or cars and parts can accumulate on a front lawn, what builder is going to risk his time and $$$ to build there? Sure you may get a few isolated builders but probably not much activity.

Instead, a builder purchases land, builds a bunch of condos/townhouses and creates an HOA governing these properties; that creates the type of authority to enforce rules that just don't exist at the municipal level. You may be able to raise chickens and works on cars on any property in town. But in the condo development, it is forbidden by HOA rules.

Are you making a home or leveraging an investment? They are mutually exclusive unless you're a corporate drone.