Question for Muslims...

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
My question is inspired by events such as the French riots, the murder of Theo van Gogh, and the thread on this page regarding the cartoon that depicted Islam in a negative light:

Are you first and foremost a Muslim, or are you first and foremost a citizen of the country in which you live and have citizenship? If you consider yourself first and foremost a Muslim, are you bound by Islamic law? If so what do you adhere to if there is a conflict between Islamic law and the laws of the country in which you reside?

If you feel Islamic law takes precedence when there is a conflict, to where adhering to Islamic law means that you are breaking the laws of the state, why do you feel like you are entitled to continue being a member of the state?

In my opinion, were you to do something like kill Theo van Gogh because he did something offensive to Islam, something which might be perfectly in order with Islamic law, you would no longer be entitled to the protections of the state in which you live, and should be removed from the state, be it by incarceration, execution, or deportation.

Well, laws are based on religion, especially the 10 commandments, and the Christian/Muslim/Jewish laws are the same. If we are talking about just laws, then yes I am bound by Islamic law, there is really no conflict between islamic law and the laws of a country, whatever is considered a crime is the same, but what is different is the punishment. The laws of the state are the same as the laws of Islam in its basic form, such as murder, stealing, rape etc etc etc.

The law is not an issue, what people can do or not do is the issue. The law of Islam is that you cannot spread lies about Islam, if you do it is punishable by death, such as the case of Theo Van Gogh. Criticizing is fine, spreading lies is another thing. In this case, then I believe Islamic law takes first priority in order to stop the lies from spreading further.

Yes, you see so much constructive criticism in the arab world these days:roll:

There would be new construction after Iran wiped Israel off the map.. right? Come on now.. Islam has changed and is showing its true peaceful roots.

 

[raildogg]

I think Islam would be a regular peaceful religion like every other religion if there were less people like mOeeOm and his ilk, such as OBL. I still think Islam is peaceful, its just that nutcases like mOe here and OBL use Islam as a way to advance their political agenda.

 

[raildogg]

In other words, mOeeOm and OBL are trying to hijack Islam. I hope other muslims rise up against them. Lets see what happens.

 

[mOeeOm]

Originally posted by: bdude

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: bdude

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: bdude

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
My question is inspired by events such as the French riots, the murder of Theo van Gogh, and the thread on this page regarding the cartoon that depicted Islam in a negative light:

Are you first and foremost a Muslim, or are you first and foremost a citizen of the country in which you live and have citizenship? If you consider yourself first and foremost a Muslim, are you bound by Islamic law? If so what do you adhere to if there is a conflict between Islamic law and the laws of the country in which you reside?

If you feel Islamic law takes precedence when there is a conflict, to where adhering to Islamic law means that you are breaking the laws of the state, why do you feel like you are entitled to continue being a member of the state?

In my opinion, were you to do something like kill Theo van Gogh because he did something offensive to Islam, something which might be perfectly in order with Islamic law, you would no longer be entitled to the protections of the state in which you live, and should be removed from the state, be it by incarceration, execution, or deportation.

Well, laws are based on religion, especially the 10 commandments, and the Christian/Muslim/Jewish laws are the same. If we are talking about just laws, then yes I am bound by Islamic law, there is really no conflict between islamic law and the laws of a country, whatever is considered a crime is the same, but what is different is the punishment. The laws of the state are the same as the laws of Islam in its basic form, such as murder, stealing, rape etc etc etc.

The law is not an issue, what people can do or not do is the issue. The law of Islam is that you cannot spread lies about Islam, if you do it is punishable by death, such as the case of Theo Van Gogh. Criticizing is fine, spreading lies is another thing. In this case, then I believe Islamic law takes first priority in order to stop the lies from spreading further.

Law in modern day society is (generally) not based on religion.

Theo Van Gogh was not a muslim. Therefore he was not bound by Islamic law.

Everyone is bound by Islamic law when it comes to something like this.

You and what terrorist army will gonna stop me?

or to rephrase: who will stop me or anyone (non muslims) from breaking islamic law?

Clearly Theo shared your attitude right?

Fortunately he ain't the only one who's smearing islam.

:evil:

But he was one of the very few brave enough to try and spread his lies on a global scale. Stay in hiding

 

[bdude]

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: bdude

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: bdude

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: bdude

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
My question is inspired by events such as the French riots, the murder of Theo van Gogh, and the thread on this page regarding the cartoon that depicted Islam in a negative light:

Are you first and foremost a Muslim, or are you first and foremost a citizen of the country in which you live and have citizenship? If you consider yourself first and foremost a Muslim, are you bound by Islamic law? If so what do you adhere to if there is a conflict between Islamic law and the laws of the country in which you reside?

If you feel Islamic law takes precedence when there is a conflict, to where adhering to Islamic law means that you are breaking the laws of the state, why do you feel like you are entitled to continue being a member of the state?

In my opinion, were you to do something like kill Theo van Gogh because he did something offensive to Islam, something which might be perfectly in order with Islamic law, you would no longer be entitled to the protections of the state in which you live, and should be removed from the state, be it by incarceration, execution, or deportation.

Well, laws are based on religion, especially the 10 commandments, and the Christian/Muslim/Jewish laws are the same. If we are talking about just laws, then yes I am bound by Islamic law, there is really no conflict between islamic law and the laws of a country, whatever is considered a crime is the same, but what is different is the punishment. The laws of the state are the same as the laws of Islam in its basic form, such as murder, stealing, rape etc etc etc.

The law is not an issue, what people can do or not do is the issue. The law of Islam is that you cannot spread lies about Islam, if you do it is punishable by death, such as the case of Theo Van Gogh. Criticizing is fine, spreading lies is another thing. In this case, then I believe Islamic law takes first priority in order to stop the lies from spreading further.

Law in modern day society is (generally) not based on religion.

Theo Van Gogh was not a muslim. Therefore he was not bound by Islamic law.

Everyone is bound by Islamic law when it comes to something like this.

You and what terrorist army will gonna stop me?

or to rephrase: who will stop me or anyone (non muslims) from breaking islamic law?

Clearly Theo shared your attitude right?

Fortunately he ain't the only one who's smearing islam.

:evil:

But he was one of the very few brave enough to try and spread his lies on a global scale. Stay in hiding

Heh, you misunderstood my post. Look in a mirror. :thumbsup:

 

[mOeeOm]

Originally posted by: bdude

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: bdude

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: bdude

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: bdude

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
My question is inspired by events such as the French riots, the murder of Theo van Gogh, and the thread on this page regarding the cartoon that depicted Islam in a negative light:

Are you first and foremost a Muslim, or are you first and foremost a citizen of the country in which you live and have citizenship? If you consider yourself first and foremost a Muslim, are you bound by Islamic law? If so what do you adhere to if there is a conflict between Islamic law and the laws of the country in which you reside?

If you feel Islamic law takes precedence when there is a conflict, to where adhering to Islamic law means that you are breaking the laws of the state, why do you feel like you are entitled to continue being a member of the state?

In my opinion, were you to do something like kill Theo van Gogh because he did something offensive to Islam, something which might be perfectly in order with Islamic law, you would no longer be entitled to the protections of the state in which you live, and should be removed from the state, be it by incarceration, execution, or deportation.

Well, laws are based on religion, especially the 10 commandments, and the Christian/Muslim/Jewish laws are the same. If we are talking about just laws, then yes I am bound by Islamic law, there is really no conflict between islamic law and the laws of a country, whatever is considered a crime is the same, but what is different is the punishment. The laws of the state are the same as the laws of Islam in its basic form, such as murder, stealing, rape etc etc etc.

The law is not an issue, what people can do or not do is the issue. The law of Islam is that you cannot spread lies about Islam, if you do it is punishable by death, such as the case of Theo Van Gogh. Criticizing is fine, spreading lies is another thing. In this case, then I believe Islamic law takes first priority in order to stop the lies from spreading further.

Law in modern day society is (generally) not based on religion.

Theo Van Gogh was not a muslim. Therefore he was not bound by Islamic law.

Everyone is bound by Islamic law when it comes to something like this.

You and what terrorist army will gonna stop me?

or to rephrase: who will stop me or anyone (non muslims) from breaking islamic law?

Clearly Theo shared your attitude right?

Fortunately he ain't the only one who's smearing islam.

:evil:

But he was one of the very few brave enough to try and spread his lies on a global scale. Stay in hiding

Heh, you misunderstood my post. Look in a mirror. :thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

 

[judasmachine]

people of any religion consider themselves a member of that religion first. they also try to force those views into the law of their country so that they are bound by god's law by god and country. this is true of muslims, jewish people, or christians. god by virtue of being god always comes first as he has ultimate control of your soul.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: mOeeOm
You sound like a Muslim....if not, sorry, but if so, then...what are you doing? You MUST follow the Quran to the letter. We are commanded by God to punish those who spread lies about Islam, you can't pick and choose what you wanna follow, regardless of the time or place you live in. And yes before you kill them, you have to be just in it,

Well if you have been paying attention to any of my posts the past few...MONTHS ,you would know that I am

See now I agree with you 100%.

But here is the problem: in today's world if you kill someone because they spread false information about Islam, that only spreads MORE lies and MORE problems.
Theo Van Gogh (or however you spelled it) dies, and then people assume that his movie is the truth and what he said was correct.
In today's world, to "kill" someone means to attack them via other means. Protest loudly about the inaccuries, publish papers that show where he made the wrong assumptions, get on talk shows and say how he is lying, use every legal tool you have to make it apparant to everyone that he is spreading lies. Hell, even follow the "American Way" and sue them!
There are MANY alternatives that can easily shut down those who are providing false information.

By killing them, you become the enemy of God because you are the one helping to spread false information, by making people beleive "I can't beleive a Muslim killed him...he was probably onto something!"

Don't worry though, I won't kill you ya welady~ I will take my time and patiently speak out against this, to correct the lies you are helping to spread. Inshallah you will realize how your actions only help to spread more lies....

 

[mOeeOm]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: mOeeOm
You sound like a Muslim....if not, sorry, but if so, then...what are you doing? You MUST follow the Quran to the letter. We are commanded by God to punish those who spread lies about Islam, you can't pick and choose what you wanna follow, regardless of the time or place you live in. And yes before you kill them, you have to be just in it,

Well if you have been paying attention to any of my posts the past few...MONTHS ,you would know that I am

See now I agree with you 100%.

But here is the problem: in today's world if you kill someone because they spread false information about Islam, that only spreads MORE lies and MORE problems.
Theo Van Gogh (or however you spelled it) dies, and then people assume that his movie is the truth and what he said was correct.
In today's world, to "kill" someone means to attack them via other means. Protest loudly about the inaccuries, publish papers that show where he made the wrong assumptions, get on talk shows and say how he is lying, use every legal tool you have to make it apparant to everyone that he is spreading lies. Hell, even follow the "American Way" and sue them!
There are MANY alternatives that can easily shut down those who are providing false information.

By killing them, you become the enemy of God because you are the one helping to spread false information, by making people beleive "I can't beleive a Muslim killed him...he was probably onto something!"

Don't worry though, I won't kill you ya welady~ I will take my time and patiently speak out against this, to correct the lies you are helping to spread. Inshallah you will realize how your actions only help to spread more lies....

Gotta follow Quran to the letter Can't start doing things differently. And no it doesn't increase spreading of lies...once the liars are made examples of, the rest will cower away. You don't see 1000s of people trying to pull off what theo has attempted do you? the ones who do, do it in complete hiding.

 

[raildogg]

Kill 1 Theo, and thousands will be born. You cannot stop freedom and people's desire to tell it like it is.

God bless Theo Van Gogh.

 

[bdude]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Kill 1 Theo, and thousands will be born. You cannot stop freedom and people's desire to tell it like it is.

God bless Theo Van Gogh.

I aint religious, but cheers to that. :beer:

 

[mOeeOm]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Kill 1 Theo, and thousands will be born. You cannot stop freedom and people's desire to tell it like it is.

God bless Theo Van Gogh.

Uh huh....whenever these thousands show up to attempt what theo did, be sure to msg me.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: mOeeOm
You sound like a Muslim....if not, sorry, but if so, then...what are you doing? You MUST follow the Quran to the letter. We are commanded by God to punish those who spread lies about Islam, you can't pick and choose what you wanna follow, regardless of the time or place you live in. And yes before you kill them, you have to be just in it,

Well if you have been paying attention to any of my posts the past few...MONTHS ,you would know that I am

See now I agree with you 100%.

But here is the problem: in today's world if you kill someone because they spread false information about Islam, that only spreads MORE lies and MORE problems.
Theo Van Gogh (or however you spelled it) dies, and then people assume that his movie is the truth and what he said was correct.
In today's world, to "kill" someone means to attack them via other means. Protest loudly about the inaccuries, publish papers that show where he made the wrong assumptions, get on talk shows and say how he is lying, use every legal tool you have to make it apparant to everyone that he is spreading lies. Hell, even follow the "American Way" and sue them!
There are MANY alternatives that can easily shut down those who are providing false information.

By killing them, you become the enemy of God because you are the one helping to spread false information, by making people beleive "I can't beleive a Muslim killed him...he was probably onto something!"

Don't worry though, I won't kill you ya welady~ I will take my time and patiently speak out against this, to correct the lies you are helping to spread. Inshallah you will realize how your actions only help to spread more lies....

Gotta follow Quran to the letter Can't start doing things differently. And no it doesn't increase spreading of lies...once the liars are made examples of, the rest will cower away. You don't see 1000s of people trying to pull off what theo has attempted do you? the ones who do, do it in complete hiding.

you are breeding contempt. if this is your wish, well then mission accomplished. education trumps violence in the western view.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: raildogg
Kill 1 Theo, and thousands will be born. You cannot stop freedom and people's desire to tell it like it is.

God bless Theo Van Gogh.

Uh huh....whenever these thousands show up to attempt what theo did, be sure to msg me.

There are millions of them in fact. These people want truth and want to live in a peaceful world in which all religions coexist.

You and Osama want to kill everyone not like you. You guys will lose.

 

[bdude]

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: raildogg
Kill 1 Theo, and thousands will be born. You cannot stop freedom and people's desire to tell it like it is.

God bless Theo Van Gogh.

Uh huh....whenever these thousands show up to attempt what theo did, be sure to msg me.

It doesn't matter whether or not they attempt to do what this guy did. What matters is what people believe. Right now, I believe you're crazy and making a bad name for your religion, and I bet so does the majority of people on this board. You can't stop us from thinking that.

 

[mOeeOm]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: raildogg
Kill 1 Theo, and thousands will be born. You cannot stop freedom and people's desire to tell it like it is.

God bless Theo Van Gogh.

Uh huh....whenever these thousands show up to attempt what theo did, be sure to msg me.

There are millions of them in fact. These people want truth and want to live in a peaceful world in which all religions coexist.

You and Osama want to kill everyone not like you. You guys will lose.

Ya I'm sure theres a lot of these mystical people....

 

[mOeeOm]

Originally posted by: bdude

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: raildogg
Kill 1 Theo, and thousands will be born. You cannot stop freedom and people's desire to tell it like it is.

God bless Theo Van Gogh.

Uh huh....whenever these thousands show up to attempt what theo did, be sure to msg me.

It doesn't matter whether or not they attempt to do what this guy did. What matters is what people believe. Right now, I believe you're crazy and making a bad name for your religion, and I bet so does the majority of people on this board. You can't stop us from thinking that.

Oh anyone has the right to believe anything, how they go about it is a different story.

 

[judasmachine]

what about the filmmaker that made the movie Osama? did she not expose the rampant sexism, and domestic violence, and lack of respect for humanity in the more radical sects of Islam?

And this is coming from a sympathizer of the Palestinian plight. (although occasionally my patience wears thin.)

 

[mOeeOm]

I'm off to sleep, maybe you will get enough time to show these mystical people.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: mOeeOm
You sound like a Muslim....if not, sorry, but if so, then...what are you doing? You MUST follow the Quran to the letter. We are commanded by God to punish those who spread lies about Islam, you can't pick and choose what you wanna follow, regardless of the time or place you live in. And yes before you kill them, you have to be just in it,

Well if you have been paying attention to any of my posts the past few...MONTHS ,you would know that I am

See now I agree with you 100%.

But here is the problem: in today's world if you kill someone because they spread false information about Islam, that only spreads MORE lies and MORE problems.
Theo Van Gogh (or however you spelled it) dies, and then people assume that his movie is the truth and what he said was correct.
In today's world, to "kill" someone means to attack them via other means. Protest loudly about the inaccuries, publish papers that show where he made the wrong assumptions, get on talk shows and say how he is lying, use every legal tool you have to make it apparant to everyone that he is spreading lies. Hell, even follow the "American Way" and sue them!
There are MANY alternatives that can easily shut down those who are providing false information.

By killing them, you become the enemy of God because you are the one helping to spread false information, by making people beleive "I can't beleive a Muslim killed him...he was probably onto something!"

Don't worry though, I won't kill you ya welady~ I will take my time and patiently speak out against this, to correct the lies you are helping to spread. Inshallah you will realize how your actions only help to spread more lies....

Gotta follow Quran to the letter Can't start doing things differently. And no it doesn't increase spreading of lies...once the liars are made examples of, the rest will cower away. You don't see 1000s of people trying to pull off what theo has attempted do you? the ones who do, do it in complete hiding.

Trust me, I follow the Quran. But I use the knowledge God gave me to realize what is smarter. If I kill someone, I am not shutting them down. Instead, I serve as a mouthpeice for what they say. If Van Gogh never died, most likely we would never have heard about his stupid film. It would have existed in its region, and I'm sure people would protested loudly and it would have fizzled away. But because he died, he was turned into a marytr and hailed for his "trying to spread the truth about Islam" when what he said was never true.
Tell me again, you agree with that? You agree with the spreading of such lies to where it was big news here in the United State and no doubt all parts of Europe and the entire Middle East?

Hiding behind the notion of "strict interpretation" does not justify your spreading lies of Islam.

Furthermore , you state "Have to follow the Quran to the letter" as if there was a general consensus of how to interpret God's world in our history. There never was full consensus! Go look the history of Islam and you will see how everything was always debated from DAY ONE. It was that type of intellectual thought that allowed Islam to flourish. That is why there are four major schools of thought in Islam, with countless other minor ones...and people don't all fit into each school of thought...it a mix and mash. That is why Islam does not have the notion of "sects" in the manner that Christianity does~ its just a big mix mash with gray areas...

Rejah-an iftihim shinu ina aqool

 

[magomago]

By the way, you should notice how this thread is a perfect example of how your tactics do not work at ALL. You have raildogg here telling God to "bless Theo" even though he was an aethist, and he speaks like Van Gogh was telling the truth...

Really...now does your method work?

BTW, I'm going to PM you this so you read it for sure later just incase you really did go to bed

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: magomago
By the way, you should notice how this thread is a perfect example of how your tactics do not work at ALL. You have raildogg here telling God to "bless Theo" even though he was an aethist, and he speaks like Van Gogh was telling the truth...

Really...now does your method work?

BTW, I'm going to PM you this so you read it for sure later just incase you really did go to bed

What is true or what is not true is your opinion. I don't care if he was a muslim, atheist, hindu or whatever. He was killed because he criticized elements within Islam. God bless him.

I know you're a muslim but my point is that people like Osama and mOeeOm are trying to hijack your religion. It is up to you to try to set these nutcases aside and let the rest of the world know you're not on their side. Its not Islam that makes these people kill innocent people, its their political agenda. They use Islam as a scapegoat.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
My question is inspired by events such as the French riots, the murder of Theo van Gogh, and the thread on this page regarding the cartoon that depicted Islam in a negative light:

Are you first and foremost a Muslim, or are you first and foremost a citizen of the country in which you live and have citizenship? If you consider yourself first and foremost a Muslim, are you bound by Islamic law? If so what do you adhere to if there is a conflict between Islamic law and the laws of the country in which you reside?

If you feel Islamic law takes precedence when there is a conflict, to where adhering to Islamic law means that you are breaking the laws of the state, why do you feel like you are entitled to continue being a member of the state?

In my opinion, were you to do something like kill Theo van Gogh because he did something offensive to Islam, something which might be perfectly in order with Islamic law, you would no longer be entitled to the protections of the state in which you live, and should be removed from the state, be it by incarceration, execution, or deportation.

Well, laws are based on religion, especially the 10 commandments, and the Christian/Muslim/Jewish laws are the same. If we are talking about just laws, then yes I am bound by Islamic law, there is really no conflict between islamic law and the laws of a country, whatever is considered a crime is the same, but what is different is the punishment. The laws of the state are the same as the laws of Islam in its basic form, such as murder, stealing, rape etc etc etc.

The law is not an issue, what people can do or not do is the issue. The law of Islam is that you cannot spread lies about Islam, if you do it is punishable by death, such as the case of Theo Van Gogh. Criticizing is fine, spreading lies is another thing. In this case, then I believe Islamic law takes first priority in order to stop the lies from spreading further.

If you truly believe this, then you do not belong within the framework of a Western society. In fact, you and your belief is THE enemy of Western society.

This is distinctly different from magomago's position, which he advocates a more reasonable debate.

 

[RabidMongoose]

We can only hope that people do not follow strict Islamic Law (and likely any other religion's law in a strict sense) because it will lead to barbarity, discrimination, and even more disgust in the world. Strict religious laws might have been fine when people were rolling around in mud like savages, but this is 2005, not 1005.

 

[Aimster]

why is moeen allowed in the U.S?

someone call the govt. and get him out of here.