Question for Jehovah's Witnesses or other religious individuals?

[Amused]

<< 2. Why are humans born with certain tendecies or desires that are defined as sinful? >>



This is an easy question. My answer from an agnostic POV:

Many of our desires can lead to trouble if they take over our lives.

Let's use sex as an example. We all know sex can spread disease. 3000 years ago, no one knew what caused diseases, but they did see a direct correlation between excessive sex with many partners, and venereal disease. So, if you're a man from 3000 years ago who has no idea why the disease happens, but everyone who is promiscuous in your clan has the disease, what are you to think? It's obvious, promiscuity displeases the gods, and that's why the gods are making these people ill.

The same rule applies to extra marital sex. Not only did they see a danger for the spread of disease in a time when the tribes and clans needed to grow and populate, but it caused social strife as well when Jebadiah would go beat the crap out of Joseph for boinking his mate.

Finally, homosexuality was most probably frowned upon because it produced no children, and would lead to broken marriages (most marriages were arranged back then).

The whole thing boils down to the fact that our desires not only helped us during evolution, but they harmed us in society when taken to excess. Since we didn't know WHY they harmed us, we scared the ignorant into not doing those things by assuming the reason they caused harm is because they displeased the gods. Rulers, who were considered the most holy and close to the god/s, if not considered deities themselves, used this tactic to force the masses to conform.

 

[Arkitech]

Do you ever wonder who to believe? There are thousands of different religions in existence and although I have'nt come close to studying all of them it makes you wonder which one is the right one.


Suddenly I just feel overwhelmed.


Thanks for the responses and the links

 

[Elledan]

<< Do you ever wonder who to believe? There are thousands of different religions in existence and although I have'nt come close to studying all of them it makes you wonder which one is the right one. >>

There are an estimated 1000 religions on this planet at this day.

And which one is right? Why should there even one be right? Many religions were lost in history because the reasons for those religions disappeared (due to knowledge) or because certain groups of people (Spaniards) forced a certain religion on another group (Maya, Indians), thereby causing the (near-)extinction of other religions. What if all current religions are all wrong and one of those now forgotten religions was right?

However, so far it's more likely that some aliens are 'messing around' with us Humans. If they've advanced enough technology, they can remain unnoticed by us as long as they want.

 

[Optimus]

Arkitech - Don't worry, its just that everyone needs a breather from the religion fighting around here.

If you'd like to hear my thoughts on your questions then please shoot me a PM.


luv2chill: Are you saying coconuts _migrate_???

 

[ufs]

I will try my best to keep it as simple as possible, but one can write books on these two topics. Also, I am not a religous scholar or anything, my answers might not be perfect and very appealing.

Answer to question 1:
First of all, why do you expect the God to be always kind and good? All right, he is creator of the world and he is supposed to keep everything in order but why do we always take it for granted. God works in mysterious ways. What seems bad at first might be good in the long run. We just don't have enough sense to understand God's plan.
Secondly, if you look at the people living in the world, no matter what religion follow, how many people you see who actually follow their religion. We do things that are exactly against what religion says. So, how can you expect the world to be perfect? Just follow your religion and things will be ok.
Third, if you believe in heaven and hell, and life after death, and day of judgment, you might know that this world is only a temporary place for us. We are undergoing a test over here and on the basis of how we perform, our fate will be decided. Most people forget this thing. They think this life is the only life and this world is everything. So they expect their lives to be perfect and free from all sorts of bad things, which is wrong. God tests you in this life by giving you grief, disease and things like that. Now, if we believe in life after death, it's our job to be always thankful to god under all circumstances and pray for his mercy and a better life. If we start complaining that why God does that to me when I didnt do anything bad and things like that, then the essence of worship and faith does not exist.

I have still a lot to say, but I think i'll stop here for now.

Second question:
Again, it's about faith. We can't just sit aside and say that we can't do anything about this particualar desire of mine because we were born with it. Even though we know that desire is sinful. It's just one of the many ways God tests our faith. If we know that this thing in us is against what God likes, we should change that habit, or whatever.

 

[luv2chill]

Optimus--

It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a 1 pound coconut.



l2c

 

[Athanasius]

Arkitech:

You've asked this kind of question before. The following paragraphs are a cut and paste from a response I made to your earlier thread (around March 20, 2001) &quot;A question for bible scholars.&quot; Since few here seem interested in retreading this ground, perhaps you should email me directly or p.m. me if you want to discuss it.

March 20, 2001:



<< Forgive the length of this post. The story of Eden is powerful and I feel constrained to respond with some depth to your question.

The biblical concept of sin is huge. There are several different Greek and Hebrew words that emphasize different aspects of sin. &quot;Sin&quot; can be as generic as &quot;missing the mark&quot; or &quot;failing to fulfill the purpose for which one was created&quot; or as malevolent as &quot;deliberately stepping across a line&quot; or &quot;defiantly claiming a position for oneself that is delusional, false and destructive.&quot;

Humanity still has much to learn from the story of the garden of Eden. The lessons we are intended to grasp are far more important than the literalness of the story itself.

By looking at how the rest of the Bible looks back on the Garden of Eden account, one can get a better understanding of the core lessons involved.

For example, in Romans 5:12-21, the Apostle Paul teaches that, in its infancy, mankind transgressed against God. This means that mankind (&quot;Adam&quot; means &quot;Man&quot defiantly claimed a position for itself that is delusional, false, and destructive.&quot;. This truth is poetically contained in the Eden account itself, where the &quot;serpent&quot; said, &quot;You shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.&quot; In other words, the lie is that mankind can decide for itself what is right or what is wrong, that there is no objective &quot;Way&quot; or &quot;Code&quot;. Instead, we have embraced a path where we decide what is right and no one can challenge it. BTW, the Hebrew word for &quot;serpent&quot; is the same root as the word for &quot;spell&quot; or &quot;sorcery.&quot; Hence, the Eden account is saying that, in mankind's infancy, we fell under a spell, a basic lie that destroys our ability to experience the presence of God. Note that, upon believing the lie and transgressing, humanity was driven from the Garden. Humanity lost the sense of God's presence.

Romans 5 is the key passage in the New Testament that gives insight into mankind's predicament.

If one reads Romans 5 carefully, one finds that it isn't so much that God &quot;blames&quot; humans for the choice of three individuals. Rather, Paul teaches that we are all &quot;in&quot; Adam; we are all human. We are connected. We are one. The collective human &quot;soul&quot; is infected with a tendency that began in mankind's earliest days. Because mankind &quot;transgressed&quot; and claimed a false position for itself, mankind perpetually &quot;sins&quot; and &quot;fails to achieve the purpose for which it was created.&quot; We miss the mark. We are malignant, and unaided by the chemotherapy of God's Word, we are terminal.

But the story doesn't end there. There is a &quot;Second Adam&quot; (Romans 5:15-21, 1 Corinthians 15:42-49). There is a &quot;New Beginning for Humanity.&quot; God's Word (John 1:1-18), His Chemotherapy, has already entered into the Body of Humanity in one individual cell: Jesus of Nazareth. In its infancy, humanity transgressed and became malignant. After the malignancy had reached terminal proportions, radical chemotherapy was initiated. Incarnate the Word anew in yourself and you &quot;attach&quot; to the new humanity that began with Jesus of Nazareth.

That is where the story of Eden leads. In &quot;mythic&quot; or &quot;poetic&quot; form, Genesis itself tells us this. &quot;Eve&quot; receives a proimise: &quot;Your seed will crush the serpent's head.&quot;

So, God isn't blaming six billion people for the choice of two ancestors and a reptile. Rather, humanity is like a stream, or a tree. We are individual branches, but we share a common trunk and a common root system. If disease gets into that trunk and that root system, it spreads to every branch and every leaf. God isn't blaming us as individuals for what &quot;Adam and Eve&quot; did. He is challenging us to deal honestly with our spiritual malignancy, to take responsibility for who we are and to trust His way of curing our disease.

This seems harsh and flies in the face of fierce western individualism, but perhaps fierce western individualism is one more sympton of that intital disease: we want to decide for ourselves what is right and have embraced a psychology of entitlement that minimizes our common ground (for good or bad), and responsibility to, all of humanity.

Besides, the &quot;common source&quot; of the human &quot;collective soul&quot; works in our favor as well. The disease may have originated outside of my individual self, but so does the Cure. We may have inherited trendencies that destroy our ability to experience God, but because we are all interconnected as common humanity, we also inherit, through no merit of our own, the opportunity to connect with the Cure. Each one of us is related by blood to Jesus of Nazareth. The Cure is Human. If we submit to the Chemotherapy of the Word Became Flesh (Jesus of Nazareth), we are the start of a new humanity. This willful submission and trust is an undoing of mankind's initial willful transgression. It is one small step in unraveling the &quot;spell&quot;. It is the first step in the journey back to the Presence of God, which is all Eden really represents.

That is the Story of Paradise Lost, and Paradise Regained. That is one aspect of the story of Eden that humanity fails to ascertain.

Does it answer all of my questions? NO. Does wrestling with these concepts get me moving in the right direction? YES. Movement in the right direction is movement towards truth and redemption.

God knows humanity needs it. >>

 

[Optimus]

Luv2Chill:

Well, maybe 2 swallows... if they had the coconut on a line...

 

[luv2chill]

What, held under the dorsal guiding feathers?

Well, why not?

Heh, I could go on all day!


MORTICIAN: Bring out your dead!
[clang]
...
CUSTOMER: Here's one -- nine pence.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not dead!
ORTICIAN: What?
CUSTOMER: Nothing -- here's your nine pence
DEAD PERSON: I'm not dead!
MORTICIAN: Here -- he says he's not dead!
CUSTOMER: Yes, he is.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not!
MORTICIAN: He isn't.
CUSTOMER: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.
DEAD PERSON: I'm getting better!
CUSTOMER: No, you're not -- you'll be stone dead in a moment.


It just doesn't get any better than that

l2c

P.S. Thanks for another enlightening post Athanasius--I had missed it the first time.