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Question for Hillary supporters

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Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,501
1
81
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Has anyone actually answered the OP yet?

Three things Hillary has accomplished on her own.
I posted some of her voting record. She is a Senator, and Senators vote on legislation that is her job.
So we should make her President because she shows and votes on legislation?

In that case John McCain has been in the Senate for a lot longer why not make him President?
Or Robert Byrd? Harry Ried? Ted Kennedy?
Personally I would evaluate the Senator's voting record, policies, campaign platform and other issues.



 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Have they been convicted of any crimes? Have they lied under oath? Did I miss it?!
Again, was Clinton convicted of any crimes? Did I miss it? Tsk tsk on the double standard.
Clinton DID lie under oath - which, to me, is a serious crime, especially for the President. Or did you miss that question?
Again you are using if he has been convicted of a crime or not as a standard for Bush, but for Clinton. That's a double standard as Clinton was not convicted of a crime. Impeachment by the House is the same thing as an indictment by a grand jury. If you want to say that indictment = guilt then you are welcome to do so, but our legal system disagrees.

Of course in reality we both know that Bush and Clinton have lied repeatedly in order to shield themselves from political harm or to advance their agenda. All presidents do. The stance you are taking on this issue however is certainly not an intellectually honest one, particularly if you are going to relate it to some sort of black and white criminal conviction thing.
bah.. you're right.. they're all scum.
 

daveymark

Lifer
Sep 15, 2003
10,576
1
0
Originally posted by: Fern
Anyway, I've read all the responses and so far the OP's question remain unanswered.

Fern

interesting, isn't it? and you know that everyone went scurrying to google to try to drum up something, ANYTHING, even going as far as cutting and pasting the wiki on her, hoping that something in there would stick, with no success.

does this mean google has a conservative bias?

damn you, Sergey Brin and Larry Page *shakes fist*
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
72,584
23,672
136
Originally posted by: daveymark
Originally posted by: Fern
Anyway, I've read all the responses and so far the OP's question remain unanswered.

Fern

interesting, isn't it? and you know that everyone went scurrying to google to try to drum up something, ANYTHING, even going as far as cutting and pasting the wiki on her, hoping that something in there would stick, with no success.

does this mean google has a conservative bias?

damn you, Sergey Brin and Larry Page *shakes fist*
No, it just means that nobody wants to get in a stupid semantic fight about what could be considered her accomplishments and what wouldn't be. At least that's the case for me. In today's polarized atmosphere the people who are passing legislation are those passing mostly meaningless crap that somehow managed to pass bipartisan muster because of its generally useless nature.

But whatever.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Has anyone actually answered the OP yet?

Three things Hillary has accomplished on her own.
Nope. Not a single answer yet.

Somehow, I'm not surprised.
 

montanafan

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
3,551
2
71
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Has anyone actually answered the OP yet?

Three things Hillary has accomplished on her own.
Nope. Not a single answer yet.

Somehow, I'm not surprised.

Surprise!

-graduated Wellesley College, Wellesley, Massachusetts, 1965-1969, Senior Class president,
-Yale Law School, New Haven, Connecticut, 1969-1973, graduated with honors
-member of the board of editors, Yale Review of Law and Social Action
-Yale Child Study Center, 1973-1974, one post-graduate year of study on children and medicine
-she was active in young Republican groups and campaigned for Republican presidential candidate Barry Goldwater in 1964
-she worked at various jobs during her summers as a college student, once in a canning factory in Alaska
-in 1970, she secured a grant and first went to work for the Children's Defense Fund.
-worked on Senator Walter Mondale's (Minnesota Democrat) subcommittee on migrant workers, researching migrant problems in housing, sanitation, health and education
-in the summer of 1972, she worked in the western states for the Democratic presidential candidate George McGovern's campaign.
-volunteered at Yale's Child Study Center, learning about new research on early childhood brain development
-did volunteer work at New Haven Hospital, where she took on cases of child abuse and the city Legal Services, providing free legal service to the poor.
-she served as staff attorney for the Children?s Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts
-served as a member of the presidential impeachment inquiry staff advising the Judiciary Committee of the House of Representatives during the Watergate Scandal
-became a faculty member of the University of Arkansas Law School, located in Fayetteville, where her Yale Law School classmate and boyfriend Bill Clinton was teaching as well
-mother to Chelsea Victoria Clinton, (born 1980, February 27
-joined the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock, Arkansas
-appointed by President Jimmy Carter to the board of the Legal Services Corporation in 1978
-became a full partner at the Rose Law Firm
-she was twice named to the list of ?The 100 Most Influential Lawyers in America.?
-she represented and later served on the board of several businesses including TCBY ("Too Good to Be Yogurt"), and Wal-Mart
-First Lady of Arkansas for twelve years
-chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee
-co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families
-served on the boards of the Arkansas Children's Hospital, Legal Services, and the Children's Defense Fund
-wrote a weekly newspaper column entitled "Talking It Over."
-head the President's Task Force on Health Care Reform
-helped raise national consciousness about the problem of citizens who lived without any medical insurance and began to address an assortment of other medical problems facing many citizens
-initiated the Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for those children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage
-successfully sought to increase the research funding for illnesses such as prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institute of Health
-gave voice to the illnesses that were affecting veterans of the Gulf War, with the possibility of their suffering the toxic side effects of chemical "Agent Orange" used in warfare
-initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997 to passage
-led a second effort, the Foster Care Independence bill, to help older, unadopted children transition to adulthood
-hosted numerous White House conferences that related to children's health, including early childhood development (1997) and school violence (1999)
-lent her support to programs ranging from "Prescription for Reading," in which pediatricians provided free books for new mothers to read to their infants as their brains were rapidly developing, to nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses
-supported an annual drive to encourage older women to seek a mammography to prevent breast cancer, coverage of the cost being provided by Medicare
-persuaded Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin to convene a meeting of corporate CEOs for their advice on how companies could be persuaded to adopt better child care measures for working families
-helped to create the Department of Justice's Violence Against Women office
-during her trips to Africa (1997), Asia (1995), South America (1995, 1997) and the Central European former Soviet satellite nations (1997, 1998), Hillary Clinton emphasized "a civil society," of human rights as a road to democracy and capitalism.
-one of the few international figures at the time who spoke out against the treatment of Afghani women by Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan
-One of the programs she helped create was Vital Voices, a U.S.-sponsored initiative to promote the participation of international women in their nation's political process. One result of the group's meetings, in Northern Ireland, was drawing together women leaders of various political factions that supported the Good Friday peace agreement that brought peace to that nation long at civil war
-was an active supporter of the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), often awarding its micro-loans to small enterprises begun by women in developing nations that aided the economic growth in their impoverished communities
-Certainly one of her more important speeches as First Lady addressing the need for equal rights for women was international in scope and created controversy in the nation where it was made: the September 1995 United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, China.
-Authored a best-selling book, It Takes a Village
-Grammy award winner
-she initiated the Save America's Treasures program, a national effort that matched federal funds to private donations to rescue from deterioration and neglect, or restore to completion many iconic historic items and sites, including the flag which inspired the Star Spangled Banner, and the National First Ladies Historic Site in Canton, Ohio.
-as part of the Millennium Project which she initiated, monthly lectures that considered both America's past and forecasted its future were held in the East Room, and one of these became the first live simultaneous webcast from the mansion.
-on November 7, 2000, Hillary Clinton became the first First Lady ever elected to public office, winning the U.S. Senate seat from New York State
-sits on four Senate Committees with a total of eight subcommittee assignments: Senate Committee on Armed Services with three subcommittee assignments, on Airland, on Emerging Threats and Capabilities, and on Readiness and Management Support; Senate Environment and Public Works Committee with three subcommittee assignments on Clean Air, Wetlands, Private Property, and Nuclear Safety, on Fisheries, Wildlife, and Water and on Superfund, Waste Control, and Risk Assessment; the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, with two subcommittee assignments, on Aging and on Children and Families; and the Senate Special Committee on Aging.
-after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 on the World Trade Center in downtown New York City, Senator Clinton worked to secure $21.4 billion in funding to assist clean up and recovery, to provide health tracking for first responders and volunteers at Ground Zero and to create grants for redevelopment
-in 2005, she issued two studies that examined the disbursement of federal homeland security funds to local communities and first responders
-Senator Clinton visited American troops in Afghanistan and Iraq during the U.S. war in those nations
-she became a national advocate both in public and in her Senate work on behalf of retaining and improving health and other benefits for veterans.
-led a bipartisan effort to bring broadband access to rural communities
-co-sponsored the 21st Century Nanotechnology Research and Development Act
-included language in the Energy Bill to provide tax exempt bonding authority for environmentally conscious construction projects
-introduced an amendment calling for funding of new job creation to repair, renovate and modernize public schools
-won an extension of Unemployment Insurance, which passed on the first day of the 108th Congress
-a vocal opponent of the Bush Administration's tax cuts
-her memoirs Living History were published in 2003 and sold over 3 million copies both in the U.S. and in other nations
-won re-election to the United States Senate

BTW, I like Joe Biden.

 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
4
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Have they been convicted of any crimes? Have they lied under oath? Did I miss it?!
Again, was Clinton convicted of any crimes? Did I miss it? Tsk tsk on the double standard.
Clinton DID lie under oath - which, to me, is a serious crime, especially for the President. Or did you miss that question?
Again you are using if he has been convicted of a crime or not as a standard for Bush, but for Clinton. That's a double standard as Clinton was not convicted of a crime. Impeachment by the House is the same thing as an indictment by a grand jury. If you want to say that indictment = guilt then you are welcome to do so, but our legal system disagrees.

Of course in reality we both know that Bush and Clinton have lied repeatedly in order to shield themselves from political harm or to advance their agenda. All presidents do. The stance you are taking on this issue however is certainly not an intellectually honest one, particularly if you are going to relate it to some sort of black and white criminal conviction thing.
Clinton was disbarred from the Arkansas bar as part of an agreement that prevented him from being charged with a crime.

In essence he made a plea agrement.

Clinton was also held in civil contempt of court for his 'willful failure' to obey repated orders to testify truthfully.

There is a HUGE difference between a political lie "read my lips, no new taxes" or Clinton's 'middle class tax cut' and lying under oath in a court of law, as Clinton did.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
4
0
umm that big long list is a bunch of fluf BS.

"-Senator Clinton visited American troops in Afghanistan and Iraq during the U.S. war in those nations " that's an accomplishment?

I bet we can create a list similar to this about every candidate. You don't become a major party candidate without a long resume.

How about stuff that really counts?

Ever balance a budget?
Ever submit a budget?
Ever lead ANY agency or government at any level?
Propose any worthy bills?

VERY few Senators have a record strong enough for them to run on, which is why they tend to lose elections.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
72,584
23,672
136
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Have they been convicted of any crimes? Have they lied under oath? Did I miss it?!
Again, was Clinton convicted of any crimes? Did I miss it? Tsk tsk on the double standard.
Clinton DID lie under oath - which, to me, is a serious crime, especially for the President. Or did you miss that question?
Again you are using if he has been convicted of a crime or not as a standard for Bush, but for Clinton. That's a double standard as Clinton was not convicted of a crime. Impeachment by the House is the same thing as an indictment by a grand jury. If you want to say that indictment = guilt then you are welcome to do so, but our legal system disagrees.

Of course in reality we both know that Bush and Clinton have lied repeatedly in order to shield themselves from political harm or to advance their agenda. All presidents do. The stance you are taking on this issue however is certainly not an intellectually honest one, particularly if you are going to relate it to some sort of black and white criminal conviction thing.
Clinton was disbarred from the Arkansas bar as part of an agreement that prevented him from being charged with a crime.

In essence he made a plea agrement.

Clinton was also held in civil contempt of court for his 'willful failure' to obey repated orders to testify truthfully.

There is a HUGE difference between a political lie "read my lips, no new taxes" or Clinton's 'middle class tax cut' and lying under oath in a court of law, as Clinton did.
Are you seriously trying to say that someone being disbarred is part of a criminal plea agreement? You know as well as I do that isn't accurate. Again, I know that Clinton acted scummily (is that a word?), my only point was that you can't say that Bush isn't a liar just because he hasn't been convicted of such and then turn around and call Clinton one even though he hasn't been convicted either. Oh, and I wasn't talking about 'no new taxes' when I was talking about the lies of Bush the Elder, the current Bush, or Reagan. You know as well as I do that they have lied about far, far more serious things then that.

Oh, and I'm glad to see that my statement earlier was surprisingly prescient. If you look about 3 posts up you'll see I said that nobody wants to get into some sort of stupid fight as to what would be considered accomplishments, etc. Then when someone drops a load of them on you, you immediately attack what would be considered an accomplishment.

Shocking.

 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Montanafan, please post something of your own input, not left-wing talking points cut-and-pasted from [insert moonbat site here].

Most of what you have pasted in is nothing but resume material. She got a degree. Whoopee.

I'm asking for 3 accomplishments as a Senator which would qualify her to be POTUS. Amazing that days later and over a hundred-fifty posts ... and the question still cannot be answered.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Originally posted by: Pabster
Montanafan, please post something of your own input, not left-wing talking points cut-and-pasted from [insert moonbat site here].

Most of what you have pasted in is nothing but resume material. She got a degree. Whoopee.

I'm asking for 3 accomplishments as a Senator which would qualify her to be POTUS. Amazing that days later and over a hundred-fifty posts ... and the question still cannot be answered.
Hmmmmm...she has a (D) after her name...does anything else really matter? <---sarcasm
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,531
3
0
Originally posted by: Pabster
Montanafan, please post something of your own input, not left-wing talking points cut-and-pasted from [insert moonbat site here].

Most of what you have pasted in is nothing but resume material. She got a degree. Whoopee.

I'm asking for 3 accomplishments as a Senator which would qualify her to be POTUS. Amazing that days later and over a hundred-fifty posts ... and the question still cannot be answered.
If you outline what qualfications are necessary to be President maybe they can answer your question.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,531
3
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Pabster
Montanafan, please post something of your own input, not left-wing talking points cut-and-pasted from [insert moonbat site here].

Most of what you have pasted in is nothing but resume material. She got a degree. Whoopee.

I'm asking for 3 accomplishments as a Senator which would qualify her to be POTUS. Amazing that days later and over a hundred-fifty posts ... and the question still cannot be answered.
If you outline what qualfications are necessary to be President maybe they can answer your question.
Bueller? Bueller?

 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
18
81
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Have they been convicted of any crimes? Have they lied under oath? Did I miss it?!
Again, was Clinton convicted of any crimes? Did I miss it? Tsk tsk on the double standard.
Clinton DID lie under oath - which, to me, is a serious crime, especially for the President. Or did you miss that question?
It's a totally pardonable offense. I'm sorry, I mean commutable offense ;)
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Pabster
Montanafan, please post something of your own input, not left-wing talking points cut-and-pasted from [insert moonbat site here].

Most of what you have pasted in is nothing but resume material. She got a degree. Whoopee.

I'm asking for 3 accomplishments as a Senator which would qualify her to be POTUS. Amazing that days later and over a hundred-fifty posts ... and the question still cannot be answered.
If you outline what qualfications are necessary to be President maybe they can answer your question.
How about demonstrating some competence, even excellence, by starting or running a successful business?

How about being a successful govenor?

How about managing to get an important commitee chairmanship and demonstrating some competence/experience (e.g., Joe Biden on Foreign Relations).

How about being on the fore-front of some important & contentious issue and getting a landmark bill passed? Particularly one that after time turns out to have been good

H3ll, I'd even go for outlining a bunch of new policy ideas and leading a soft revolution in Gingrich-style fashion. A solid demonstration of developing ideas, being persuasive and having leadership qualities.

HRC couldn't even pass the DC bar exam.

Fern
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,531
3
0
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Pabster
Montanafan, please post something of your own input, not left-wing talking points cut-and-pasted from [insert moonbat site here].

Most of what you have pasted in is nothing but resume material. She got a degree. Whoopee.

I'm asking for 3 accomplishments as a Senator which would qualify her to be POTUS. Amazing that days later and over a hundred-fifty posts ... and the question still cannot be answered.
If you outline what qualfications are necessary to be President maybe they can answer your question.
How about demonstrating some competence, even excellence, by starting or running a successful business?

How about being a successful govenor?

How about managing to get an important commitee chairmanship and demonstrating some competence/experience (e.g., Joe Biden on Foreign Relations).

How about being on the fore-front of some important & contentious issue and getting a landmark bill passed? Particularly one that after time turns out to have been good

H3ll, I'd even go for outlining a bunch of new policy ideas and leading a soft revolution in Gingrich-style fashion. A solid demonstration of developing ideas, being persuasive and having leadership qualities.

HRC couldn't even pass the DC bar exam.

Fern
You say those are qualifications but we can look back at past Presidents (and the current one) who had/has those qualifications and they haven't done a decent job. In fact both Bush and Carter were successful Governors and they had/have failed miserably as President.

 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
4
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Are you seriously trying to say that someone being disbarred is part of a criminal plea agreement? You know as well as I do that isn't accurate. Again, I know that Clinton acted scummily (is that a word?), my only point was that you can't say that Bush isn't a liar just because he hasn't been convicted of such and then turn around and call Clinton one even though he hasn't been convicted either.
Yes, that is exactly what was done.
Give up your law license for 5 years and we won't charge you with a crime. No different than someone agreeing to enter a drug rehab program in exchange for drug charges against them being dropped or being offered a chance to do some community service and stay out of trouble for a year and we'll drop the drunk and disorderly charge against you.

Happens quite often with celebs and sports stars and most likely average people.

We know for a fact that he was held in civil contempt and forced to pay a fine and he also lost his court case. He essentially paid for his crime in that manner so they may have thought that criminal charges weren?t needed.

Finally, EVERYONE knows that Clinton lied under oath and broke the law, just because he wasn?t charged or convicted doesn?t mean the crime never happened.

As for Bush: you guys can't even prove that he lied, and I mean outright said something that he knew was completely false.
You can claim that he knew there were no WMD but there is a TON of evidence that suggests that there was, and everyone in the world believed there were WMD as well.

Please provide for me your best example of an outright lie told by Bush.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,531
3
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Are you seriously trying to say that someone being disbarred is part of a criminal plea agreement? You know as well as I do that isn't accurate. Again, I know that Clinton acted scummily (is that a word?), my only point was that you can't say that Bush isn't a liar just because he hasn't been convicted of such and then turn around and call Clinton one even though he hasn't been convicted either.
Yes, that is exactly what was done.
Give up your law license for 5 years and we won't charge you with a crime. No different than someone agreeing to enter a drug rehab program in exchange for drug charges against them being dropped or being offered a chance to do some community service and stay out of trouble for a year and we'll drop the drunk and disorderly charge against you.

Happens quite often with celebs and sports stars and most likely average people.

We know for a fact that he was held in civil contempt and forced to pay a fine and he also lost his court case. He essentially paid for his crime in that manner so they may have thought that criminal charges weren?t needed.

Finally, EVERYONE knows that Clinton lied under oath and broke the law, just because he wasn?t charged or convicted doesn?t mean the crime never happened.

As for Bush: you guys can't even prove that he lied, and I mean outright said something that he knew was completely false.
You can claim that he knew there were no WMD but there is a TON of evidence that suggests that there was, and everyone in the world believed there were WMD as well.

Please provide for me your best example of an outright lie told by Bush.
He didn't lie, he was just overwhelmed by the situation and allowed himself to be convinced by his so cslled trusted handlers that what has turned out to be one of the most disasterous foriegn policy blunders was the right thing to do. Obviously he was totally out of his element and has been for the last 7 years.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
He didn't lie, he was just overwhelmed by the situation and allowed himself to be convinced by his so cslled trusted handlers that what has turned out to be one of the most disasterous foriegn policy blunders was the right thing to do. Obviously he was totally out of his element and has been for the last 7 years.
fair enough... but you're very unique. Too many of his opposition claim that he did knowingly lie, which itself is a fallacy.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,531
3
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
He didn't lie, he was just overwhelmed by the situation and allowed himself to be convinced by his so cslled trusted handlers that what has turned out to be one of the most disasterous foriegn policy blunders was the right thing to do. Obviously he was totally out of his element and has been for the last 7 years.
fair enough... but you're very unique. Too many of his opposition claim that he did knowingly lie, which itself is a fallacy.
Yeah I think they give him too much credit.
 

montanafan

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
3,551
2
71
Originally posted by: Pabster
Montanafan, please post something of your own input, not left-wing talking points cut-and-pasted from [insert moonbat site here].

Most of what you have pasted in is nothing but resume material. She got a degree. Whoopee.

I'm asking for 3 accomplishments as a Senator which would qualify her to be POTUS. Amazing that days later and over a hundred-fifty posts ... and the question still cannot be answered.
Lol, speaking of distorted perceptions. Yep, those facts came from that bastion of left-wing talking points at the moonbat site - The National First Ladies' Library. :D

I'm sorry that none of her accomplishments match the very specific ones that you have chosen to be the only ones to qualify someone to be President. I'm sure Lincoln historians will be equally dismayed to learn that he did not meet the qualifications for the Presidency either.

How about if I list the accomplishments of George W. Bush prior to his running for the Presidency next to Hillary's? After all, he was a governor and he did run a couple of businesses. Wanna see how those two would compare?



 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
72,584
23,672
136
Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Yes, that is exactly what was done.
Give up your law license for 5 years and we won't charge you with a crime. No different than someone agreeing to enter a drug rehab program in exchange for drug charges against them being dropped or being offered a chance to do some community service and stay out of trouble for a year and we'll drop the drunk and disorderly charge against you.

Happens quite often with celebs and sports stars and most likely average people.

We know for a fact that he was held in civil contempt and forced to pay a fine and he also lost his court case. He essentially paid for his crime in that manner so they may have thought that criminal charges weren?t needed.

Finally, EVERYONE knows that Clinton lied under oath and broke the law, just because he wasn?t charged or convicted doesn?t mean the crime never happened.

As for Bush: you guys can't even prove that he lied, and I mean outright said something that he knew was completely false.
You can claim that he knew there were no WMD but there is a TON of evidence that suggests that there was, and everyone in the world believed there were WMD as well.

Please provide for me your best example of an outright lie told by Bush.
I looked into it some more and you are right that Clinton did admit lying as part of an agreement. So, you do have me there. Of course, I never questioned even for a second that Clinton was lying to the special prosecutor... I mean everyone knows that.

So, for Bush's lies huh? Here's an easy one.

Quote from Bush on April 20th of 2004:

Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so.
This was an obvious lie, as he had been ordering warrantless wiretapping of calls that involved American citizens for more then three years at that point. Oops. I guess he just "forgot" about that while he was giving the interview, Gonzales style.

How about Valerie plame? It strains credulity to think that he had no knowledge of the Valerie Plame leak affair that involved his Vice President, his own chief of staff, and his senior political advisor. The fact that Scott McClellan's book appears to say exactly that makes for some pretty strong evidence that he wasn't being truthful.

Lets be serious here, you know just as well as I do that Bush has lied repeatedly to the American people while in office. Every president lies to the American people. I understand why they do it, but it's all of our duties to call them out on it when they do. So don't whitewash Bush's lying... it just encourages his successor to do more of the same. He needs to get held over the fire for it so that whoever comes next thinks twice before doing it.


 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
4
0
I agree with you that Bush, like every Presidnet, has said something that will qualify as 'lies.'

But the quotes and lies you posted are not the ones used by the far left in their 'impeach Bush' rants.

BTW I don't agree with you on the Valerie Plame thing. It is very possible that Bush did not know what was going on in that mess till later on.

On the wiretap thing: I have no idea what he was thinking. I am guessing that in his view the fact that wiretaps are suppose to go through the court makes them authorized.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Lets be serious here, you know just as well as I do that Bush has lied repeatedly to the American people while in office. Every president lies to the American people. I understand why they do it, but it's all of our duties to call them out on it when they do. So don't whitewash Bush's lying... it just encourages his successor to do more of the same. He needs to get held over the fire for it so that whoever comes next thinks twice before doing it.
:roll:

Here's a new idea...let's discuss Hillary, the topic at hand!

As usual, you're off on a BDS-fueled tangent. :roll:

 

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