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theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: scott
Originally posted by: senseamp

<cut>
Of course I welcome 2008 being a referendum on the Clinton presidency. <cut>

A referendum on Clinton's freely handing out both our advanced satellite technologies, and our advanced technologies for nuclear hardening of electronics to China (after all, the DID contribute to his campaign) ?

A referendum on Clinton's pardoning of some of the sleaziest criminals of the era on the last day in office (after all, they were connected to large campaign contributors)?

O.K. Let's do that! :)

The good things that happened economically during his tenure in office can not be attributed to any of his policies. He got lucky in some instances.

True reform! Ron Paul.

I agree with everything you've said, sans the Ron Paul comment.

Perhaps 2008 really will be a referendum on Bill Clinton.

It's nice to see that at least some of our aspirations align :D
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: scott
Originally posted by: senseamp

<cut>
Of course I welcome 2008 being a referendum on the Clinton presidency. <cut>

A referendum on Clinton's freely handing out both our advanced satellite technologies, and our advanced technologies for nuclear hardening of electronics to China (after all, the DID contribute to his campaign) ?

A referendum on Clinton's pardoning of some of the sleaziest criminals of the era on the last day in office (after all, they were connected to large campaign contributors)?

O.K. Let's do that! :)

The good things that happened economically during his tenure in office can not be attributed to any of his policies. He got lucky in some instances.

True reform! Ron Paul.

I agree with everything you've said, sans the Ron Paul comment.

Perhaps 2008 really will be a referendum on Bill Clinton.

It's nice to see that at least some of our aspirations align :D

The Clintons will sell this country to China in exchange for being elected. We've already seen Hillary taking huge donations from Chinese sources.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: scott
Originally posted by: senseamp

<cut>
Of course I welcome 2008 being a referendum on the Clinton presidency. <cut>

A referendum on Clinton's freely handing out both our advanced satellite technologies, and our advanced technologies for nuclear hardening of electronics to China (after all, the DID contribute to his campaign) ?

A referendum on Clinton's pardoning of some of the sleaziest criminals of the era on the last day in office (after all, they were connected to large campaign contributors)?

O.K. Let's do that! :)

The good things that happened economically during his tenure in office can not be attributed to any of his policies. He got lucky in some instances.

True reform! Ron Paul.

I agree with everything you've said, sans the Ron Paul comment.

Perhaps 2008 really will be a referendum on Bill Clinton.

It's nice to see that at least some of our aspirations align :D

The Clintons will sell this country to China in exchange for being elected. We've already seen Hillary taking huge donations from Chinese sources.

The Clintons could never sell this country to China- because the Bush family already sold us out to China and Saudi Arabia.
Google Bin Laden family and Carlyle Group.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: scott
Originally posted by: senseamp

<cut>
Of course I welcome 2008 being a referendum on the Clinton presidency. <cut>

A referendum on Clinton's freely handing out both our advanced satellite technologies, and our advanced technologies for nuclear hardening of electronics to China (after all, the DID contribute to his campaign) ?

A referendum on Clinton's pardoning of some of the sleaziest criminals of the era on the last day in office (after all, they were connected to large campaign contributors)?

O.K. Let's do that! :)

The good things that happened economically during his tenure in office can not be attributed to any of his policies. He got lucky in some instances.

True reform! Ron Paul.

I agree with everything you've said, sans the Ron Paul comment.

Perhaps 2008 really will be a referendum on Bill Clinton.

It's nice to see that at least some of our aspirations align :D

The Clintons will sell this country to China in exchange for being elected. We've already seen Hillary taking huge donations from Chinese sources.

Running huge deficits = selling this country to China to finance tax cuts. Literally.
So by cutting the Deficits, Clinton did the opposite of what you accuse him of doing.
Not surprisingly, you can't see the forest for the trees.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: SSSnail
It's funny that the same idiots that's asking what has Hilliary done are the same idiots that voted for Bush, TWICE. What has he done before, what did he do while he was president?

Why do you even ask stupid questions? Just say "I'm a hardliner and I'll vote for shit if it's in my party", and be done with.
Prior to 2000 Bush was considered a good governor of Texas, third largest state in the country.

BTW I don?t see winning the Senate seat in New York by the wife of a very popular President as an ?accomplishment.? Perhaps if she had faced Rudy instead of Lazio then you might have a point. Otherwise the seat was essentially given to her.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: FlashG
I don't think that anyone has answered the OP's question yet.

Guess you didn't read my post.
How about three worthy things she has done as a Senator.

Perhaps 3 major pieces of legislation that have her name on them.

Hillary likes to tell us about all the great ideas she has if elected, but she hasn't even tried to get one thing done as a Senator. Why is that?
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: SSSnail
It's funny that the same idiots that's asking what has Hilliary done are the same idiots that voted for Bush, TWICE. What has he done before, what did he do while he was president?

Why do you even ask stupid questions? Just say "I'm a hardliner and I'll vote for shit if it's in my party", and be done with.
Prior to 2000 Bush was considered a good governor of Texas, third largest state in the country.

BTW I don?t see winning the Senate seat in New York by the wife of a very popular President as an ?accomplishment.? Perhaps if she had faced Rudy instead of Lazio then you might have a point. Otherwise the seat was essentially given to her.

She got reelected too. If Rudy thought it would be easy, he should have ran against her.
He would have lost in 2000 if he didn't bail out, he would have lost in 2006, and he is going to lose NY state and the election in 2008 if he is the nominee.
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1318.xml?ReleaseId=1108
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: FlashG
I don't think that anyone has answered the OP's question yet.

Guess you didn't read my post.
How about three worthy things she has done as a Senator.

Perhaps 3 major pieces of legislation that have her name on them.

Hillary likes to tell us about all the great ideas she has if elected, but she hasn't even tried to get one thing done as a Senator. Why is that?

She's been grooming herself for this Presidential race all along. It was all a grand design by her and her hubby. That's why she hasn't done shit in the Senate.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: FlashG
I don't think that anyone has answered the OP's question yet.

Guess you didn't read my post.
How about three worthy things she has done as a Senator.

Perhaps 3 major pieces of legislation that have her name on them.

Hillary likes to tell us about all the great ideas she has if elected, but she hasn't even tried to get one thing done as a Senator. Why is that?

because for most of her tenure as a senator, she served under one of the most anti-minority congresses in history?

(I mean minority as in minority party... as in, your bills would get buried and never see the light of day unless you had a R next to your name)
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: Narmer
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: FlashG
I don't think that anyone has answered the OP's question yet.

Guess you didn't read my post.
How about three worthy things she has done as a Senator.

Perhaps 3 major pieces of legislation that have her name on them.

Hillary likes to tell us about all the great ideas she has if elected, but she hasn't even tried to get one thing done as a Senator. Why is that?

She's been grooming herself for this Presidential race all along. It was all a grand design by her and her hubby. That's why she hasn't done shit in the Senate.

Or maybe because GOP was running the show until recently.
But I like your idea that Hillary is a woman who is capable of making plans and working to achieve them. I know that sounds like a mortal sin in the GOP, but it would be nice to have someone in charge who can think ahead for a change.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: FlashG
I don't think that anyone has answered the OP's question yet.

Guess you didn't read my post.
How about three worthy things she has done as a Senator.

Perhaps 3 major pieces of legislation that have her name on them.

Hillary likes to tell us about all the great ideas she has if elected, but she hasn't even tried to get one thing done as a Senator. Why is that?
because for most of her tenure as a senator, she served under one of the most anti-minority congresses in history?

(I mean minority as in minority party... as in, your bills would get buried and never see the light of day unless you had a R next to your name)
So??? Sounds like an excuse to me.

If her ideas were so great she could have put them out there for the people to see. Where is her healthcare plan? Why do we have to wait till she becomes President before we get to see how any of her great ideas will actually work?

And what is her excuse now?
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
She slept with Bill (allegedly), and then got elected to the Senate a (very) few times. Other than that, she hasn't accomplished a g'damn thing, in her entire life, that would make her worthy of the Presidency.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: palehorse74
She slept with Bill (allegedly), and then got elected to the Senate a (very) few times. Other than that, she hasn't accomplished a g'damn thing, in her entire life, that would make her worthy of the Presidency.

It's all about who Clinton slept with or didn't with you. Wouldn't surprise me if you lose the womens vote this election with this kind of attitude. Yeah, Hillary is just a j!!z rag for Clenis, because that's all a wife is to a man, right?
She is no less qualified to be President than JFK was when he got elected. He was a Senator from the Northeast too.
After she gets elected president, you'll still keep b!tching that she hasn't accomplished a g'damn thing.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
I agree that her "experience" is highly questionable compared to other Dems and Republicans, especially former/current governors/mayors. Her Senate experience has been important to many, though, especially in the highly visible state of New York. Her defining issue for a while was health care and socializing it, which I think is important (though I disagree with strictly gov't subsidized health care). But otherwise she has never been someone of exactness or someone who has espoused clear, definable goals. She seems politically motivated in every single action she takes, which is both good and bad, but IMO mostly bad.

But I do think her experience in the WH with Bill gave her valuable insight into everyday activities. She's nothing like a Laura Bush, who despite being a wonderful woman isn't the least bit politically savvy or knowledgeable like HRC. So I wouldn't be as extreme as to say her time in the WH was as politically "worthless" as Laura's, because she took an active and interested role there.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,347
2,710
136
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: SSSnail
It's funny that the same idiots that's asking what has Hilliary done are the same idiots that voted for Bush, TWICE. What has he done before, what did he do while he was president?

Why do you even ask stupid questions? Just say "I'm a hardliner and I'll vote for shit if it's in my party", and be done with.
Prior to 2000 Bush was considered a good governor of Texas, third largest state in the country.

BTW I don?t see winning the Senate seat in New York by the wife of a very popular President as an ?accomplishment.? Perhaps if she had faced Rudy instead of Lazio then you might have a point. Otherwise the seat was essentially given to her.


I lived in Texas the whole time Bust was govenor there, and I don't believe half the crap that was said about him at the time. he was as incompintent then as he is now, he was just able to hide it better then.Under Bust, pollution increased dramaticly because of the 'Self Regulation' did not work. if an industry doesn't have to cut pollution, it will not
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
She's a Uniter, not a Divider..oops, wrong person. She was a Governor, she governed..opps wrong again. She was a Senator, she senated..yeah that's the ticket:confused:
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
But I do think her experience in the WH with Bill gave her valuable insight into everyday activities. She's nothing like a Laura Bush, who despite being a wonderful woman isn't the least bit politically savvy or knowledgeable like HRC. So I wouldn't be as extreme as to say her time in the WH was as politically "worthless" as Laura's, because she took an active and interested role there.

Isn't that a good thing, though? I'm not sure that having a "political" first lady trying to influence policy and what not is the greatest idea. Hillary clearly was a major force during Bill's tenure, and I've seen nothing to suggest or corroborate that any of that influence had a positive effect. In fact, everything appears to suggest exactly the opposite.

It's also generally accepted that after Hillary's failed 1993 "HillaryCare" debacle, she took a back burner, on Bill's orders.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
She is a Senator for NY. To evaluate her you have to look at her voting record. The information below I copied and pasted from her campaign website and "On The Issues" website.

From her campaign website:
In 2000, Hillary was elected to the United States Senate from New York. As Senator, Hillary has continued her advocacy for children and families and has been a national leader on homeland security and national security issues.

After the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, Hillary worked with her colleagues to secure the funds New York needed to recover and rebuild. She fought to provide compensation to the families of the victims, grants for hard-hit small businesses, and health care for front line workers at Ground Zero. And she continues to work for resources that enable New York to grow, to improve homeland security for New York and other communities, and to protect all Americans from future attacks.

She is the first New Yorker ever to serve on the Senate Armed Services Committee, working to see that America's military has the necessary resources to protect our national security. She has visited troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and at Fort Drum in New York, home of the 10th Mountain Division and other New York bases, as well as at Walter Reed Military Hospital. She has learned first-hand the challenges facing American combat forces. Hillary passed legislation to track the health status of our troops so that conditions like Gulf War Syndrome would no longer be misdiagnosed. She is an original sponsor of legislation that expanded health benefits to members of the National Guard and Reserves and has been a strong critic of the Administration's handling of Iraq.

But Hillary has recognized that we can't ignore our problems at home while we face challenges overseas. She has introduced legislation to tie Congressional salary increases to an increase in the minimum wage, because she believes if America's working people don't deserve a raise, neither does Congress. She has supported a variety of middle-class tax cuts, including marriage penalty relief, property tax relief, and reduction in the Alternative Minimum Tax, and supports fiscally responsible pay-as-you-go budget rules. She helped pass legislation that encouraged investment to create jobs in struggling communities through the Renewal Communities program. She has championed legislation to bring broadband Internet access, which is so important in today's information economy, to rural America.

In the Senate, Hillary has not wavered in her work to expand quality affordable health care to more Americans. She worked to strengthen the Children's Health Insurance Program, which increased coverage for children in low income and working families. She authored legislation that has been enacted to improve quality and lower the cost of prescription drugs and to protect our food supply from bioterrorism. She sponsored legislation to increase America's commitment to fighting the global HIV/AIDS crisis, and is now leading the fight for expanded use of information technology in the health care system to decrease administrative costs, lower premiums, and reduce medical errors.

Her strong advocacy for children continues in the Senate. Some of Hillary's proudest achievements have been her work to ensure the safety of prescription drugs for children, with legislation now included in the Best Pharmaceuticals for Children Act, and her legislation to help schools address environmental hazards. She has also proposed expanding access to child care. She has passed legislation that will bring more qualified teachers into classrooms and more outstanding principals to lead our schools.

Hillary has been a powerful advocate for women in the Senate. Her commitment to supporting the rights guaranteed in Roe v. Wade and to reducing the number of abortions by reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies was hailed by the New York Times as "frank talk...(and) a promising path." Hillary is one of the original cosponsors of the Prevention First Act to increase access to family planning. Her fight with the Bush Administration ensured that Plan B, an emergency contraceptive, will be available to millions of American women and will reduce the need for abortions.

Hillary is strongly committed to making sure that every American has the right to vote in fair, accessible, and credible elections. She introduced the Count Every Vote Act of 2005 to ensure better protection of votes and to ensure that every vote is counted.

In 2006, New Yorkers reelected Hillary to the Senate with 67 percent of the vote.

From The On The Issues website. I did not copy all the pertinent information but it is worth going there to get more information Ms Clinton.

Voting Record on Abortion:
Voted liberal line on partial birth & harm to fetus. (Oct 2005)
Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
Voted NO on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
Voted NO on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life. (Mar 2003)
Recommended by EMILY's List of pro-choice women. (Apr 2001)
Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record. (Dec 2003)
Expand embryonic stem cell research. (Jun 2004)

Voting Record on Civil Rights
Op-ed: Voted no on flag-burning to build centrist credential. (May 2006)
Voted NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)
Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping. (Oct 2001)
Rated 60% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)

Voting Record on Education
Solemn vow never to abandon our public schools. (Jul 1999)
Voted YES on $52M for "21st century community learning centers". (Oct 2005)
Voted YES on $5B for grants to local educational agencies. (Oct 2005)
Voted YES on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education. (Mar 2005)
Voted YES on funding smaller classes instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
Voted YES on funding student testing instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
Voted YES on spending $448B of tax cut on education & debt reduction. (Apr 2001)
Rated 82% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes. (Dec 2003)

Voting Record on Energy
Voted YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jun 2007)
Voted YES on making oil-producing and exporting cartels illegal. (Jun 2007)
Voted YES on factoring global warming into federal project planning. (May 2007)
Voted YES on disallowing an oil leasing program in Alaska's ANWR. (Nov 2005)
Voted YES on $3.1B for emergency oil assistance for hurricane-hit areas. (Oct 2005)
Voted YES on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%). (Jun 2005)
Voted YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. (Mar 2005)
Voted NO on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)
Voted YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010. (Jun 2003)
Voted YES on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill. (Mar 2003)
Voted NO on drilling ANWR on national security grounds. (Apr 2002)
Voted NO on terminating CAFE standards within 15 months. (Mar 2002)

Voting Record on Health Care
Voted YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D. (Apr 2007)
Voted NO on limiting medical liability lawsuits to $250,000. (May 2006)
Voted YES on expanding enrollment period for Medicare Part D. (Feb 2006)
Voted YES on increasing Medicaid rebate for producing generics. (Nov 2005)
Voted YES on negotiating bulk purchases for Medicare prescription drug. (Mar 2005)
Voted NO on $40 billion per year for limited Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Jun 2003)
Voted YES on allowing reimportation of Rx drugs from Canada. (Jul 2002)
Voted YES on allowing patients to sue HMOs & collect punitive damages. (Jun 2001)
Voted NO on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Apr 2001)

There is a lot more information on Ms Clinton on the On The Issues website.


 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
But I do think her experience in the WH with Bill gave her valuable insight into everyday activities. She's nothing like a Laura Bush, who despite being a wonderful woman isn't the least bit politically savvy or knowledgeable like HRC. So I wouldn't be as extreme as to say her time in the WH was as politically "worthless" as Laura's, because she took an active and interested role there.

Isn't that a good thing, though? I'm not sure that having a "political" first lady trying to influence policy and what not is the greatest idea. Hillary clearly was a major force during Bill's tenure, and I've seen nothing to suggest or corroborate that any of that influence had a positive effect. In fact, everything appears to suggest exactly the opposite.

It's also generally accepted that after Hillary's failed 1993 "HillaryCare" debacle, she took a back burner, on Bill's orders.

Just because HillaryCare failed back then, doesn't mean it was a bad idea. It was just too far ahead of its time. But in 15 years since she proposed HillaryCare, those who killed it made absolutely no progress on the issue, instead allowing healthcare costs to escalate well beyond the rate of inflation, exacerbating the affordability problem and threatening the competitiveness of many businesses that provide healthcare to their employees. So in 1993, it was Hillary against the HMO industry with everyone else on the sidelines. Now it's a much wider coalition of consumers and labor intensive industries that are for healthcare reform, with Hillary being the catalyst. And I think even the healthcare industry is seeing the writing on the wall, because if they kill HillaryCare again, some of the other proposals on the table make hers look like a free market Nirvana.
Hillary is seeing big business support for a reason. I really think healthcare reform will be a net winner for the Democrats in this environment.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81
Originally posted by: FlashG
I don't think that anyone has answered the OP's question yet.

1) The 90s weren't so bad
2) But Bush sure has made a mess of things
3) You remember Bill, right?
4) Anyway, I'm ahead in the polls

That's four things.

Check mate, friend
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Originally posted by: FlashG
I don't think that anyone has answered the OP's question yet.

1) The 90s weren't so bad
2) But Bush sure has made a mess of things
3) You remember Bill, right?
4) Anyway, I'm ahead in the polls

That's four things.

Check mate, friend
None of those four have anything to do with Hillary.

So far all the Hillary supporters seem to be saying is that she is married to Bill.