Question for gay men

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: n yusef

I asked you two questions, and in response you attacked me.

Could you show me the respect I have shown you?

I don't think you know Nik very well
Well, Angry Nik, at least.

 

[swbsam]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: swbsam

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
ATOT, here is a 36 pack of AA batteries. If your sarcasm detectors need 9V, too bad.

swbsam kinda hit the nail on the head, I always thought gay people operated with that kind of mindset, they just don't like pussy. More for me. The flamer act makes a lot of sense too, although I do think that flamers are the gay analogue to butch lesbians.

You know, I only had one lesbian friend and she kinda disappeared, so I don't have much insight. That friendship was insanely hard to maintain because she ALWAYS thought I wanted to do her (because she didn't trust men at all), but I just thought she was brilliant and funny (and, ok, terribly unattractive).

From my limited exposure to lesbians, I really think it has less to do with emulating men and more to do with not giving a fuck. My "style" consists of an unshaven beard, sloppy shirts that have grease on them, and crooked glasses - not because I'm clueless or "butch," but because I don't give a fuck. I'm married, I work in relative solitude and have no reason to impress anyone, and just don't really care what I look like in the morning.

Do you know how much work being "feminine" is? My wife takes 2 hours to get ready every morning - I take 15 minutes. I think butch lesbians are allowed to not care, the same way I'm allowed to not care.

Add to the fact that men hit on anything that wears a dress, and I think that's a good reason to be as unattractive as possible.

Which is not to say that some lesbians put on a butch act - there are always insecure people out their who need to identify with a group through fashion.

I don't think that butch women think that they are unattractive. They and the people who are into them, find the butch archetype to be very attractive. Many straight women find hypermasculine "don't give a fuck" men hot, and many people find "don't give a fuck" women hot.

Queerness is the ultimate rejection of heteronormativity (google it), and with it one can choose to reject heteronormative beauty standards and gender rolls. This means that queer people can find certain archetypes attractive, even if they go against the mold of mainstream society.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but i never said that they think of themselves as unattractive - I don't think of myself as unattractive, I'm just explaining where my "aesthetic" comes from.

I don't think that lesbians as a whole reject beauty standards per say - "butch" women are sometimes attracted to traditionally attractive women while I've seen my share of lesbians who do care very much about makeup and looking good. I do feel that we're often locked into our gender roles - Mommy and Daddy, not Mommy and Mommy. So one partner takes on the "female" role while the other is the "male." The one who takes on the male role probably didn't care much about fashion or prettying up to begin with.. Like me and my lazy look. But I don't know if it's a conscious decision.

 

[Newbian]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: n yusef

I asked you two questions, and in response you attacked me.

Could you show me the respect I have shown you?

I don't think you know Nik very well
Well, Angry Nik, at least.

Wait until they meet hungry Nik.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: swbsam
I'm not disagreeing with you, but i never said that they think of themselves as unattractive - I don't think of myself as unattractive, I'm just explaining where my "aesthetic" comes from.

I don't think that lesbians as a whole reject beauty standards per say - "butch" women are sometimes attracted to traditionally attractive women while I've seen my share of lesbians who do care very much about makeup and looking good. I do feel that we're often locked into our gender roles - Mommy and Daddy, not Mommy and Mommy. So one partner takes on the "female" role while the other is the "male." The one who takes on the male role probably didn't care much about fashion or prettying up to begin with.. Like me and my lazy look. But I don't know if it's a conscious decision.

I disagree that there is a necessity for mommy and daddy rolls (I think you're getting at mild forms of dominance and submission). This concept, which includes D/S, butch/femme and top/bottom dichotomies, is heteronormative and closely tied to misogyny (D, butch and top identities are valued above S, femme and bottom). The concept of a binary of identities is deeply troubling, because most people do not meet the extremes of butch or femme. I am into fashion and sports, what label can you give me? I don't agree that this dichotomy is natural or necessary. There are millions of relationships which do not have "balancing" gender rolls. I have been in some of them.

I also disagree that the "don't give a fuck" butch identity comes from laziness or the subconscious. When social pressures and expectations demand that one acts a certain way (in this instance, that women be into fashion and grooming), to reject this is to make a big decision. The decision for a man to wear a t-shirt, baggy jeans, short hair and no make-up to that same decision by a woman. You may have never considered having long hair or wearing make-up, things that are expected of women.

 

[swbsam]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: swbsam
I'm not disagreeing with you, but i never said that they think of themselves as unattractive - I don't think of myself as unattractive, I'm just explaining where my "aesthetic" comes from.

I don't think that lesbians as a whole reject beauty standards per say - "butch" women are sometimes attracted to traditionally attractive women while I've seen my share of lesbians who do care very much about makeup and looking good. I do feel that we're often locked into our gender roles - Mommy and Daddy, not Mommy and Mommy. So one partner takes on the "female" role while the other is the "male." The one who takes on the male role probably didn't care much about fashion or prettying up to begin with.. Like me and my lazy look. But I don't know if it's a conscious decision.

I disagree that there is a necessity for mommy and daddy rolls (I think you're getting at mild forms of dominance and submission). This concept, which includes D/S, butch/femme and top/bottom dichotomies, is heteronormative and closely tied to misogyny (D, butch and top identities are valued above S, femme and bottom). The concept of a binary of identities is deeply troubling, because most people do not meet the extremes of butch or femme. I am into fashion and sports, what label can you give me? I don't agree that this dichotomy is natural or necessary. There are millions of relationships which do not have "balancing" gender rolls. I have been in some of them.

I also disagree that the "don't give a fuck" butch identity comes from laziness or the subconscious. When social pressures and expectations demand that one acts a certain way (in this instance, that women be into fashion and grooming), to reject this is to make a big decision. The decision for a man to wear a t-shirt, baggy jeans, short hair and no make-up to that same decision by a woman. You may have never considered having long hair or wearing make-up, things that are expected of women.

Sociology 101 hubris... I'm not justifying gender roles - I'm just saying that they exist in our society. I don't think I live toward my pre-defined roles, and my wife is an awful cook and I'm a much better cleaner. But the rules are there, it's up to the individual to chose (whether passively or actively) ignore them. Some people, based on upbringing, find these roles comfortable and secure, so they emulate them. One person is the bread winner, one person is the caregiver. Of course, there are examples of the opposite.

And it's not a big decision for me to dress up like a slob, it's quite the opposite. While it would take some people serious effort..

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: swbsam
Sociology 101 hubris... I'm not justifying gender roles - I'm just saying that they exist in our society. I don't think I live toward my pre-defined roles, and my wife is an awful cook and I'm a much better cleaner. But the rules are there, it's up to the individual to chose (whether passively or actively) ignore them. Some people, based on upbringing, find these roles comfortable and secure, so they emulate them. One person is the bread winner, one person is the caregiver. Of course, there are examples of the opposite.

And it's not a big decision for me to dress up like a slob, it's quite the opposite. While it would take some people serious effort..

Gender rolls do exist, but one of the most liberating aspects of the LGBT community is the relative freedom from them. The idea that butch women are only attracted to femmes, or that in a relationship between two men, there are male and female rolls, isn't accurate for much if not most of the queer community.

I wasn't saying that "dressing up like a slob" was a big decision for you, I said that it's a big decision for women, who are raised not to "dress up like a slob."

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: swbsam
And it's not a big decision for me to dress up like a slob, it's quite the opposite. While it would take some people serious effort..

Some here would have to fight off their mom's choices of outfits.

 

[soulcougher73]

I personally have never understood the behavior of the Perez Hilton type gay men. Ive always had a question for gay people and im going to ask it now.

If a man is gay and into guys why do i see a lot of couples where one man is flaming flambouyant gay and the other gay man is just like any other straight man? Same goes for lesbian couples. One is usually fem and the other is butch. To me if i were gay i would want a real man. Not a sissy girly man who acts worse then a lot of women. Same goes if i were a gay female. Id want a real girly female, not a female who is more manly then some men.

Ive just never understood that part of some gay people.

Edit:
Also what is up with the lisp thing on gay men? Im sure they were not born with a lisp nor talked with a lisp growing up as a child. Once they realized they were gay and bam..i have a lisp.

 

[SilentZero]

Wait a minute...the OP was bragging about owning a Z4 the other day...doesn't Z4 == gay?

I for one think the OP is gay and is struggling to rationalize it.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: n yusef
I asked you two questions, and in response you attacked me.

Could you show me the respect I have shown you?

Your sarcasm detector needs new batteries. Go get some and then re-read my first post. Also, lighten the hell up

 

[joesmoke]

Originally posted by: soulcougher73
To me if i were gay i would want a real man. Not a sissy girly man who acts worse then a lot of women.

well i guess we know which one youd be in the relationship... :lips:

 

[GeneValgene]

Originally posted by: TechBoyJK

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Perez is a low class jerk.

You want a classy gay - Ellen Degeneres

yea, ellen doesn't bother me at all

there you go...perez is a douche nozzle, not because he's gay, but because he's a friggin idiot

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Platypus
As someone on the sidelines, trying not to be a bigot about it all, hoping to protect the constitution of this country in ensuring life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, I look at someone like TechBoyJK who is "a close minded religious bigot trying to be coy" and have no choice but think they they aren't "well". My perception of him is that he is both physically and pychologically sick, there is some clear chemical imbalance going on in his body (much like someone who is clinically depressed) and think "one day, i'm sure there will be medication that will straighten him out and get him functioning like a properly developed human being" again. It's his type that make me think he is equally as sick as a pedophile, or if not that bad, at least chemically messed up.

you don't deserve a real answer to this question because you're not capable of understanding it nor are you worth the time.

As usual, you are significantly biased on this topic and blow things out of proportion.

Yes, I am confused as well. Nik, what bias does Platypus have, and what things has he blown out of proportion?

You people are dumber than a bag of hammers. I swear to god. Do your mothers tie your shoes before they drop you off at work every day? Holy christ... :roll:

:beer:, Platypus.

I asked you two questions, and in response you attacked me.

Could you show me the respect I have shown you?

I see Nik was being sarcastic from the outset. Clearly, we did not pick that up.

:beer:

 

[onlyCOpunk]

hearing straight people argue about gay people is just silly

i also enjoy the generalisations of "i knew a gay guy once and this is what he said"

 

[KeypoX]

lol
how about them cavs

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Nik
You people are dumber than a bag of hammers. I swear to god. Do your mothers tie your shoes before they drop you off at work every day? Holy christ... :roll:

My mom does. What really sucks is when she ties them together...

 

[onlyCOpunk]

Originally posted by: soulcougher73
I personally have never understood the behavior of the Perez Hilton type gay men. Ive always had a question for gay people and im going to ask it now.

If a man is gay and into guys why do i see a lot of couples where one man is flaming flambouyant gay and the other gay man is just like any other straight man? Same goes for lesbian couples. One is usually fem and the other is butch. To me if i were gay i would want a real man. Not a sissy girly man who acts worse then a lot of women. Same goes if i were a gay female. Id want a real girly female, not a female who is more manly then some men.

Ive just never understood that part of some gay people.

Edit:
Also what is up with the lisp thing on gay men? Im sure they were not born with a lisp nor talked with a lisp growing up as a child. Once they realized they were gay and bam..i have a lisp.

Why do some guys prefer fat chicks? Why do some pretty girls prefer skinny nerds? Why don't all straight women want a "real" man, why don't all straight men want a dolled up blonde?

It's all preference. Different strokes for different folks.

And the lisp thing I believe is a born trait.

Many people do not understand the amount of "acting" gay people go through when they are still in the closet. Once we are out of the closet it allows and teaches us to be who we truly are - no more acting - and to not give a shit what anyone thinks because we've been caring about it for too long. If that involves a limp wrist and skipping, then so be it. People tend to tone down as you don't see many older gays that act as gay as they were when they were 20.

Being 100% true to yourself is something a lot of people, including straight people, do not do. Once a person achieves then they will understand.

Afterall I believe a lot of people's insecurities with how other people act lies in them not being 100% with themselves.

 

[TehMac]

Perez Hilton is a i love you. He's a self righteous moron. Most gays just revel in cock and leave others well alone.

 

[onlyCOpunk]

Originally posted by: TehMac
Perez Hilton is a i love you. He's a self righteous moron. Most gays just revel in cock and leave others well alone.

Why is it acceptable for people to use the word i love you? But offensive when someone uses the word n!gger? To me they go hand in hand. Shame on you sir.

On another note why does the n-word get starred out, but other derogatory words do not?

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: onlyCOpunk

Originally posted by: TehMac
Perez Hilton is a i love you. He's a self righteous moron. Most gays just revel in cock and leave others well alone.

Why is it acceptable for people to use the word i love you? But offensive when someone uses the word n!gger? To me they go hand in hand. Shame on you sir.

On another note why does the n-word get starred out, but other derogatory words do not?

no, it's pretty offensive with a breeder uses the word i love you.

 

[Peelback79]

I don't dislike Perez because he's gay, I dislike him because he claims to be against intolerance but can't tolerate any views different from his own.

Now someone said there was beer and popcorn here.....

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: onlyCOpunk

Originally posted by: TehMac
Perez Hilton is a i love you. He's a self righteous moron. Most gays just revel in cock and leave others well alone.

Why is it acceptable for people to use the word i love you? But offensive when someone uses the word n!gger? To me they go hand in hand. Shame on you sir.

On another note why does the n-word get starred out, but other derogatory words do not?

no, it's pretty offensive with a breeder uses the word i love you.

You know, that almost makes me want to breed again just to spite you